Why Voting for Different Congress Clowns Will Not Change a Thing — 37 Comments

  1. “If you don’t pay your ‘dues’, you get nothing, you get frozen out. All you can actually do at that point is show up for floor votes. No one is going to work with you, you can’t introduce any bills, you can’t really object to them either other then on the final votes on the main floor.”

    Still, as we barrel toward oblivion it’d be preferable to stack the congress with as many people as we can who will simply do just that: show up and vote NO on every friggin’ bill the clowns in congress try to pass.

    It’d be better than the current crop of clowns we have in there. The less the federal government does, the better. Gum up the works, I say.

  2. I was to the point where I didn’t even want to vote anymore because everything is so corrupt. But after having a run in with Child “Protective” Services (CPS).

    CPS were called to my house because my almost 5 yr old daughter was holding her baby sister in a restaurant and a person at the restaurant didn’t like how she was holding the baby (my wife immediately took the baby from my daughter after the woman complained). The reporting cop said she wouldn’t report it to CPS. Well come Christmas eve and CPS shows up. I told the woman she couldn’t come into my home w/o a warrant (I would hope a judge wouldn’t be party to this intrusion into my home). The CPS person said she didn’t need a warrant because she isn’t the cops. She then said if I didn’t let her in she would call the cops, come in regardless with them, and possibly take my kids away. At this point I got scared and let her in.

    We have a friend that her family was broken apart because of a baseless allegation. All 8 kids in foster care now. She is trying to get them back but CPS refuses to be straight with her on how she can get them back. She has basically divorced her husband in order to show that she will do whatever it takes to get them back.

    After all this occurred I’ve looked on the internet and found countless similar stories. We now belong to HSLDA (it’s pretty bad when you have to hire people preemptively to protect yourself against those who are supposed to be protecting you).

    This is my main fight now. We need to get rid of the federal monies that incentivize CPS agents to breaking up families. If a person hasn’t been alleged of a felony then CPS shouldn’t be allowed to break the family apart. Breaking the family apart is psychologically harmful to children and should only be done as a last resort. What CPS is doing is nothing more than a modern witch hunt when hearsay is allowed to break up families.

    • And you think whomever you send to the House and Senate will change that?

      The good news CPS is largely controlled at that state level. Take your fight to the state house!

  3. True, our only hope lies at the State level.
    Many States lately have taken action to protect their citizens against the predations of the FedGov, most notably Obamacare and gun rights.

    Now, if we could just get 35 States to repeal the 17th amendment…..
    The 16th amendment…..
    The Federal Reserve…..

    • Let’s just say far less effective then most people, even people who listen to TSP believe.

  4. Looks like voting for 3rd parties is more important than ever. I read all those articles. And didn’t see anything on how independent candidates are treated. Do they get to Washington and just get cast to the corner until it’s time to vote on things?

    Just looked it up on wiki. I guess there’s only 2 and they seem to be siding with the Democratic party, do they pay dues as well?

    • Almost none get elected, those that do almost always caucus with the party that most closely they align with.

  5. We have a congressman here in SW MO that had the big sob story about how his daddy would hold him up on his shoulders when he was a kid so he could watch the train come in at the Springfield Mo depot.Made all kinds of promises that he would make changes no sooner than he got in there he sold us out.And when confronted about it his excuse was what am i to do go off in a corner and hold my breath.Needless to say he was voted right back in for a second term.

    • Sadly the guy you replaced him with is doing the same shit. That guy has a point, the system is rigged.

  6. so are you saying people like Rand Paul or Justin Amash dont make any difference?

    • A few do, most have enough funding to buck the system. Without the Ron Paul machine Rand would have been another deer in the headlights.

      They make a difference just not as much as we wish to believe. They don’t swing any votes what they do is raise awareness. I appreciate them for their work but the truth is the system is rigged.

      Let me put it this way, Ron Paul is likely the most honest man to have served in the last 30 years, he has done a ton for the liberty movement but and I mean this with NO DISRESPECT how much in 30 years did he really get DONE in the House. What specifically got passed or didn’t get passed due to Dr. Paul’s votes or efforts?

      Don’t tell me what he drew attention to, I acknowledge that. His ultimate goal Audit the Fed is still dead in the water, not going to happen. Rand has whaled on Full Body Scanners, they are still in airports and not going away.

      That is my point, even good men with huge backing can’t get much done. Imagine the freshman congressman that shows up the first day and doesn’t know what you just learned.

  7. In my experience this happens on the small, local level too. Back in 2008 I was inspired/woken up by seeing Ron Paul in an early debate, and decided to become part of the movement to try to get him nominated. I’d never really been involved in politics, so I was a completely fresh face at the caucus. Just as the pre-approved slate of nominees was about to be voted through, of the other guys in our little group of “subversives” (I think there were four of us), stood up and requested that nominations be taken from the floor instead. I was nominated by one of our group, and the local republican leaders were so excited to see some “new blood” (at 27, I was the youngest person there) that one of the guys stepped down from his spot on the slate to allow me to get elected as a delegate. Of course, this was before they knew that I was “the enemy” (Ron Paul wasn’t really on their radar yet).

    It was a very intense and eye-opening time. I went to the district and state conventions and even did a little campaigning to try to win a spot at the national convention. I was regularly reprimanded for not being a “team player”, and even accused of being a democrat saboteur! I was specifically told that it was disrespectful of me not to vote with the rest of my county until I’d been involved with the club for a few years, done my volunteering time at the events, and (literally) paid my dues.

    It was clear at every level of the limited part of the process I experienced that there were marching orders sent in from somewhere up top, and the caucuses and conventions were supposed to be ceremonial at best. The slates and agendas were set and ready to be voted on. We Ron Paul supporters were vilified for daring to try to bring some thought and consideration into the proceedings.

    My favorite story has to do with one of the first votes at the state convention, the vote to approve the rules. One of the rules was obviously designed to prevent the submission of amendments for the state party platform (any amendment would be required to be delivered in writing to every member of the convention (something like 1200 people), and since the platform had only been released in its official form that morning, it gave maybe an hour to read it, compose an amendment, go out and make 1200 copies, then come back and distribute those to the whole convention body before the platform was voted on, which is among the first few votes). There were objections, and a motion to change that rule to allow amendments to be submitted in writing to the chairperson, who would then read them out to the convention. A fair and logical solution, I thought. I was the only person in my county to vote for the rule change, and I felt like I might be tarred and feathered at any moment. People got out of their seats and came out of their way to tell me how wrong I was. The guy sitting next to me asked me why I have voted that way and I told him I felt that the existing wording was designed to railroad the platform through without changes. Here’s the punchline: his reply was “yeah, I agree, but I don’t want to be here all day voting on amendments.” I always thought that was pretty funny.

    Sorry for the rambling digressions. I get pretty fired up when I start thinking about this stuff. There’s a bit in there that’s relevant to the discussion.

    • Thanks WERM. I got a little fired up too and tried to work from the inside ground level to be a RP supporter as a precinct committee person in my district during the last “cycle”. Lost resoundingly but oh well. Prolly just as well, eh?!

    • It happens at all levels for sure. It is easier to expose and fight at the local level. Another way to look at this is size of districts. You don’t need that much money to get into the state house. Likely if you started working two hours a day going door to door by yourself in most state districts you could knock on the door of 50% or more of likely voters in your district for most state house positions. Get a staff of 40 volunteers and a small budget for a website and a copy machine budge for fliers and you could likely hit almost every house in 60 days.

      You can’t do that with ANY federal office.

      Part of WTF may also be Guerrilla Campaigning for the State House

      1. Pick a district with low voter turn out
      2. Move there and wait the average two years you have to be a resident to run
      3. Organize for those two years and run a huge guerrilla get out the vote campaign specifically in a “off year” election
      4. Make sure you run as a D or an R based on the way the district already votes and tailor an honest campaign that meets that sides concern

      We would also create a common pledge for all these candidates, no tax increases ever, reduced government interference, etc. Sure some districts will never want that, you just don’t go there, hell those moving or supporting movers won’t want to live there anyway.

      You don’t need to control the Governorship or Senate in a state just the House, that’s all it takes. It takes Senate, House and Governor to do things in the individual states but any one can stop shit. The Governor is the weakest because his veto can be voted past with enough support but if you can’t pass something in the house it is dead.

    • reading this made me think:

      political party = labor union

      maybe in our future ‘perfect state’, parties need to be prohibited

  8. Wow! sadly this is eye opening. maybe its time to just start over instead of making a list of 5 or 10 states. Lets focus on one state and get movement going that said state to start seceding and start a new nation.

    • The Free Staters think like you (not the secede part) but the focus on one. I bought into it until I remembered that I am at my core and marketer and looked at it as a marketer should. No matter what state I pick or your pick or anyone picks a movement will be HIGHLY limited by one or even three states. I love Texas, some of you will NEVER move here for various reasons.

      I love Montana, but I DO NOT want to live there. Both are great sates for freedom seekers. New Hampshire is an island of sanity I a sea of idiocy of the North East.

      This method I have come up with is the foundation of the republic. Likely 5-10 states will get 90% of the people who leave. Which ones, I don’t know it is up to the FREE MARKET to decide. I do know this it will bring more people to Wyoming, New Hampshire and Texas (all which have individual movements) then those movements can do on their own.

      It is all about momentum, it is all about awareness. I have found very few people that live in New Hampshire that even know what the hell the Free State Project is, so how many in California are aware of it. Hell I have done my part, I tell 65,000 of you guys about it every week.

      For this to work though it has to be bigger than me, bigger then FSP, bigger the any of our individual goals, it needs huge momentum, the makers leaving takers behind needs to HURT.

      Consider this, there are only 315 million people in the entire United States, but the 5 states that we KNOW will all make the “naughty list” have a combined population of about 85 million. Now say 20 states combined take and divvy up 5% of that number in 5 years, that is 4 million people! That will make a huge difference but let’s just say we take 2%, just 2% of the people who really want freedom, entrepreneurs, hardworking people who want freedom.

      Well that is 1.7 million folks, divided by 20 top states that is 85,000 aggregate average per state, the entire goal of the Free State Project is only 20,000 people. Again I took this and said what would Jack Spirko from 8 years ago do, the guy that could define an entire demographic with a spread sheet and develop a plan that always worked based on it.

      The goal is a flood of people that finally say WTF, I am going to WTF like Tom, Sam and Jill did. You only need to get a few thousand of the best to move out of five of the worst states to hit a critical mass. I can tell you in time entire extended families may move, businesses may move and take the employees that want to go.

  9. @ Jack – I just cut/pasted the pertinent parts and e-mailed to my “Rep”, Raul Labrador (ID-1), & asking him to comment. It will will be interesting to see if/how he responds.
    Thanks for sharing this, I’ll post up his response , if any. (rolleyes)

    • In a quick look, it appears he’s a newbee. Leadership is putting him in debt first and will get payback later (votes, money whatever)
      He’s taken over 63,000. from party leadership. The most coming from LPACS run by Boehner, Ryan, Cantor Hatch, Crapo and others.
      He’s given 10,000. back to the NRCC .
      Often first-termers may have lesser amounts assigned or are exempted if they are in a district which may be difficult to win again. Also they may not have the connections yet to draw bigger money.

      Please spread the word about the issue and my website. Thanks!

    • @ Patrick Barron – I went to to check out my Congressman Tom McClintock R-CA (I know, I know) but can’t decide how bad it really is! Could you take a quick peek and give me a rating? I’ve been a registered Libertarian (yes big L) since 1979, and vote that way unless there isn’t one on the ballot. This guy talks the talk and walks the walk. Ran in the primary against Arnold Schwarzenegger for Governor and we would be so much better off had he won. I believe he is right there with Dr. Paul, but perhaps you can give me the REAL picture! Thanks!

      • Hi,
        Thanks for asking about Tom McClintock. I enjoy checking into different Congressional members. Wish I could do it full-time.

        Short version:
        I bet he’s a great candidate who sounds and is (or was) totally sincere when campaigning. Bet he’s an easy guy to like. Consistently socially conservative (if you’re into that) and fiscally very conservative (which for me is the priority issue) but unfortunately he’s probably on the wrong path and becoming part of the dysfunction.

        Couple things jump out when quickly looking at McClintock.
        1. I’ve heard of him and I’m from Mass. He’s from CA. Not a great sign. You only hear about people the party leadership wants you to hear about. Allen West is a prime example. Pre-tweet scandal so was Anthony Weiner for the Democrats.
        2. His career in politics, having run for Congress in ’92 then CA. Assembly, then CA. Senate, ran for Gov., Lt Gov. and then wins Congress in 2008 also with a question of what district he actually lives in tells you he’s probably an inside player.
        3. In his first term, committee’s McClintock is on: Education and Labor (not great) and Natural Resources (good for raising money especially in CA.) Then he leaves Education and Labor and goes to Budget (one of the most powerful committees).

        Uh-oh, how did this happen?

        He paid his way. In 2010 the number one recipient of his campaign funds was the NRCC, $277,000. This amount is high especially for a newer member. Means he had/has connection when getting to Congress and uses them.


        Then in 2012 he gives $232,000 to the NRCC. That’s half a million dollars in under 4 years he raised only to give back to the party! I’ll bet I can find speeches with him saying there’s too much money in politics but look what he does.


        Bottom line; I’d take him over the Liberal left and possibly other conservatives but doesn’t appear he’ll actually fix anything anytime soon. Sorry.

        Again, Thanks for asking. If you like my theory about the pay to play system please help spread the word, Facebook my website, whatever you can do is greatly appreciated!

  10. I’ll take awareness!!
    Take Rand too! Any body email or call a Senator or Congressman today? This week, or month? It’s so easy to put them in as contacts on our phone or set up in email addresses. I put under ‘S’ for Senator, “C” for congressman, etc. Hell, that way, I don’t have to put any effort into remembering the low life’s names either. I am gonna have my kid set up a twitter on my cell this weekend. Seems most of them have those too. Especially the lefty ones and its time to throw out some sense onto those twitter feeds. Should be fun!

    • That’s fine as long as you realize that is about all you are going to get.

  11. Great Show Jack. I left the Repubs in 1997 when I saw they were just one wing of the two winged bird. You have now given me more details. Ayn Rand sure nailed it in Atlas Shrugged (1957), when she recommended opting out of supporting the system financially and with our work ethic (gone galt) .
    P.S. Let me know when the bus gets to Sacramento, I will be there with my suitcase for the return trip to Austin.

  12. Im not sure if you are aware of the journalist Ben Swan, but I think he would be interested in this WTF project. He is libritarian minded and reaches a lot of ppl. I’ll send him a message, if you all could email him, im sure he would check it out. He is imo one of the few if not only reporters out there for the liberty movement.

  13. One other thing that might be useful to people considering making a move beyond writing letters to your local representatives and the like is to consider addressing a meeting of your local school board or your local chamber of commerce in person and telling your story. Most of these organizations have monthly scheduled meetings that you can easily find with a couple of minutes on google. People remember face to face first hand testimonials.

  14. I haven’t listened to this ‘cast yet, it’ll have to wait until after class. But I wanted to point out that this is THE WHOLE REASON that they Amended the Constitution to take away the Senate from the states and make it “popular”. You can easily buy Senators and Reps, but you can’t easily buy the people that choose them because you’d have to pay for their elections as well. Not to mention, you would have to deal with the repercussions to the state elected officials for any “untowards” legislation that “their” Senators signed onto. Yep, the Proglodytes from the 1910’s really screwed us.

    • Oops. My bad. I hadn’t read this post. I was running out to school when I saw it. I didn’t realize it was an article.
      I hope you get your voice back soon.

  15. One of the last statements in the message is to pick a liberty oriented state that you most align with and move there. I understand the truth in this statement.

    What does the TSP community believe are the best liberty oriented states in the country? How about best per region (e.g. New England, Mid-Atlantic, Southeast, Southwest, Midwest, West Coast (really?), Mountain States)?

  16. Whats the difference between a libertarian and an anarcho-capitalist? About a year.

    • Well I have been an minarchist libertarian for going on 9 years now so don’t get your hopes up.

      As I have always said I am an anarchist by ideal and a minarchist by practicality.