What’s Going On At Mulligan Mint
As promised I took a trip down to Mulligan Mint before approving the launch of our new series of coins. I did this to ensure that the promised upgrades and investments were made and to be sure that my customers would have a much better customer service experience this time around. I was pretty happy with what I saw.
I am happy to announce that after this visit I am going forward full tilt bore with the new silver medallions. Three designs are coming very soon, all with the Sentinel on the front and some variations there of on the reverse. The first 1,000 will be a very limited run and we will only make 1,000 of them. They will have the ant reverse.
The next two will have a reverse that is going to be absolutely amazing. We will do an uncirculated and a proof version of this one. The new reverse design will be released next week, you can see the obverse in this video. So here you go guys this is what actually happens and what it takes to turn raw silver into minted medallions.
Sweet! I have been waiting to load up on 2A medallions until the new ones are out. Looking forward to it!
Too bad Chris & Rob had that falling out. I hope they’ll reconcile. We need more of our libertarian leaders acting like leaders instead of jumping ship & going their own way at the first sign of tough times.
Here is what I can tell you on that, in spite of the fact that if Chris did this to me I would have beat his ass, and I am not kidding Rob is a bigger man then me. Rob is FULLY wiling to meet Chris as a partner at the table of negotiations and work out things. I admire this in Rob, it says a lot. Again if it was me, at minimum Chris would have left the mint with a limp, at minimum. The screw job here is immense.
One side of a LEGAL PARTNERSHIP can just say, I want the stuff I want and I want to leave. I don’t know what damn planet that assclown is from!
Yeah I mean don’t get me wrong – if I had to choose between the two, and I’ve read both sides, I’d go with Rob.
But I’m just real tired of guys who are supposed to be our leaders cat fighting. But hey, it’s a tall order right? Libertarianism is all about individual liberty, so I guess it’s no surprise that a lot of the times we fail is because we can’t come together & agree on something & cooperate. It’s just too bad, and guys like Chris & Rob who are our leaders IMHO need to suck up some of the individualism to combine voluntarily for the greater good of the movement.
And it’s not just them – it goes to Wayne Root and other leaders as well. We’ve got a big rift going on now in the LP Nevada because of a disagreement among the leadership.
I know our whole position tends toward viewing the communal with suspicion, but if we never demonstrate voluntary cooperation towards a common goal, it’s no wonder we don’t make more headway against the D’s and R’s of the world, who don’t think twice about using force at every turn.
I’ve been through two partnerships that have ended similar to Rob and Chris, and I can say I know what Rob is going through. It is really tough to continue on with half a business. Fortunately Rob didn’t have to do that.
There seams to be a lot of people who don’t understand the severity of what Chris did. Here is how I explain this type of situation to folks, that don’t understand what it takes to start and run a business.
It’s kinda like baking an apple pie. So let’s say Rob and Chris want to bake a pie. Rob has apples, flour, and everything he needs to make a pie except sugar. Chris has sugar so they get together and agree to make a pie together.
They follow the recipe and get all the ingredients together for the crust, and the filling and they assemble the pie and put it in the oven for 30 minutes.
After 30 minutes they check and discover that the pie is not quite done. The apples are still crunchy and the crust is still doughy. So Rob says that the pie must go back in until it is done, but Chris says, “no I want my piece of the pie right now, and I want it to be done right now” Rob says “you will have to wait, it is not done yet” Then Chris says “Ok, then I want my sugar back”
Know it is obvious that Rob cannot give Chris his sugar back because it is in the pie, but to people who don’t understand how a “pie” or business works they have no idea. Hopefully this little analogy will help explain things to folks who don’t quite get it.
That is a great explanation and very accurate. I like that Chris only brought the sugar here, because that is accurate. To make it more accurate, say they did this as a bakery and Rob bought 100 commercial ovens, leased the space, hired a staff all based on his agreement with Chris, now you got the full picture folks. 10,000 pies are in the oven, the signs are paid for, the ovens paid for, the bakers hired, the deliveries being made and now Chris wants his sugar back, that is absolutely a beautiful way to understand this.
I don’t think that analogy holds at all – it was more than just sugar. And now after the reassurance that MM was ready for business, and placing my 2nd order based on it, after waiting months for it, I am done. Seems to me like both Chris and Rob are unreliable & unprofessional. There are plenty of other places to buy silver – I won’t touch MM again with a 10 foot pole, especially after Rawles’ scathing post today. I cannot imagine other sponsors of TSP such as Vic or Jeff doing this horribly at business & customer service. I expected the same level. Jack should have dropped Rob like a hot potato, but instead he doubled down. To each his own.
Great video Jack! Really cool to see how a full mint runs and to see how much the Rob’s mint has grown. Can’t wait to get my mitts on the new TSP coins!
Rob said there isn’t a market for chopped-off blanks… I would just like to say that I would be willing to take those waste/chopped off blanks off of Mulligan Mint’s hand at a discount. I assume I’d still pay a premium to spot – a much reduced premium – but I’d buy that rather than pay more for the additional energy/labor necessary to recycle the boo-boos through the process.
Just saying… I’m not in it to spend the silver, I’m in it to amass the silver as a hedge (form agnostic, premium chaser).
Very thorough. But what was up with the .9999?
Ditto on that! That caught my attention as well. If this was gold, Id say it was Dentist grade.
.9999 is the purity of the final silver product. the more decimal points the purer the silver content.
,9999 fine silver is the Canadian Government Mint standard. US Government Mint standard is .999. You would think that would make Silver maple leafs sell at a slightly higher premium than silver eagles, but the eagles still sell for slightly more, because people have a lot of faith in the good old USA.
I am hoping that there is some sort of limit per person on the very limited new coin. I will be checking in a couple times a day until they come out to make sure that I get one. I am not greedy. I will stack the BU coins, but I do want one of the limiteds. Great video. Thanks for the update Jack.
Strict limit of no more then 5 per order. I insisted on it.
Glad you did this. It looks like they are working hard, and with a ton of integrity. After my last shipment, with their emphasis on quality control, they have actually given me the most beautiful, white medallions I have seen, so I am eager to continue buying from them. Their quality is unparalleled at this juncture. I dont even think my Silver Eagles were as pristine.
Looks like they are getting things squared away. I have worked too many production jobs and I can see potential. They are on the right path. Glad I have been saving up and have some cushion to start my investment into silver, debt isn’t gone yet but investing in the future doesn’t have to wait. The new coins look amazing and its more sentimental than anything since this month is my 2nd anniversary to my awakening to Jacks call to freedom. Jack, you have done right and I believe Rob and AOCS are on the right track. Someday s0on when I start my own business AOCS will be one of my forms of payment. TSP 4 life. Domari Nolo.
This video and how Rob explains everything is how PR should be done. What works, what doesn’t and most important, what we are doing to fix what doesn’t. I hope everyone who wishes to order coins from the mint sees this. Great video Jack. Now, all I have to do is get one up to Canada
When I was a kid, we took a tour of the Philadelphia Mint. I thought it was the coolest place.
I was one of the ones waiting a while for the single John Galt coin I bought my son for his 15th birthday. It didn’t come in time, so he got a printed out picture of the coin which he was very stoked about.
Rob’s updates on his site about why the process was taking longer than expected completely satisfied us. We really appreciated him keeping us in the loop, and we understood that there are bumps in the road when you’re starting out with a new business and get swamped with such demand.
When the coin came we were extremely impressed with how gorgeous it was and we’ll definitely be buying more coins as we can.
This video was fantastic. I love how Rob showed us straight out what wasn’t working, told us about the mistakes that had been made, and even when something wasn’t his fault he owned it and took steps to make sure it wouldn’t happen again (like the screwdriver shattering 3 pieces that there were no replacements for, and now there’s 9 replacements sitting on the shelf). Being able to see the process from start to finish was awesome. My son sat here with a huge grin on his face through the entire video, being able to see the EXACT machines that his coin came from.
Rob named it Mulligan Mint, but he’s more Henry Rearden – taking the raw material and making it into something even more valuable.
We can’t wait for the new Sentinel coin to come out. We *love* that design and it’s my son’s favorite shirt. 🙂
When Jack was recording the blank press in operation, Rob stated…
“Safety’s a big concern here. We want to make sure we stay safe”
I’ve worked in manufacturing environments for decades. In all of them safety glasses have been a requirement to go out on the shop floor.
Rob and Mulligan Mint should consider a safety glasses policy. They are a small inconvenience at a small cost that could pay huge benefits in saving someone’s sight.
My 2 cents
Wow awesome video any one who complains about the the price brake we TSPers get after watching this video is nuts! Placed my first order last week for 5 coins, and plan on ordering more every payday, as a way of dollar cost average my investment/hedge.
Rob thanks for addressing the issues, and Jack for staying on top of things. You are both Top Shelf in my Book!!
That was a fun video. I’ve worked in manufacturing all of my life and this video really gets the cogs in my head turning. Would be a fun project to help Rob get the inefficiencies, rework and waste out of his manufacturing line and at the same time increase his output. Lean it out if you will.
Rob: once you get your immediate capacity and supply issues resolved you may want to think about contracting some experts in lean manufacturing to help you through a few kaizens. I bet there’s a lot of low hanging fruit. Being in the Dallas area you should have good access to semiconductor manufacturing talent (i.e. Texas Instruments, Maxim, Philips, etc.), this is an industry known for lean manufacturing and statistical process control.
I also didn’t see any logging of data (maybe it just didn’t make it into the video?), are you using control charts or logging measurements anywhere? Wish you were in Austin, I would be happy to swing by and offer you a hand, looks like a great effort you have underway.
Wow… Best how its made video ever… I understand some of the premiums now.
that was a great video. very educational. i never new how much went into making rounds.
Hey Jack, I am curious as to the upper limit they use in QC for the weight of the coin. Panning through the 20 coin boxes it tended to range from 20.11 to 20.19 etc… I did catch one at 20.22! I wonder what the top end is? I wonder if you can request the “heaviest” box per production run? ;>) And I wonder how they can get more exact so they aren’t giving away profits or if the medicine costs more than the pain?
The factor that would effect the weight of the coins would be the initial bar thickness.
Because I’m OCD.. here’s the numbers.. =)
Bar thickness for ‘perfect’ round:
Bar thickness for 20.11 troy oz tube:
Bar thickness for 20.22 troy oz tube:
So my guess is that they’re trying for a 2.49 mm thick bar stock.. with a 0.01 mm error rate. (that would be 10 micrometers, or about HALF of the thickness of a very fine human hair)
that made me smile… and it was good info… thanks for that!
I like the medallions I ordered and I’ve passed one along to a friend. This man writes for Shotgun News and gave me a peep sight for a rifle I own. I gave him a 2nd Amendment medallion as a token of my appreciation. I look forward to the time when the copper medallions are again available and I can be more free at sharing than I can with silver. Any idea when that might happen?
I’ll suggest again that the copper medallions should be offered in collector sets of one or more of each design to fill a roll. They could then be traded as collectors items or would encourage bartering the ones you aren’t so fond of. It would use up slower selling designs as well.
I gotta agree, that was a very cool video. I never really all the steps that went into making a coin.
I’ll also say that seeing the processing, hearing Rob explain every thing involved, and his commitment to the operation makes me much more comfortable placing a second order with them. Thank you Jack for showing us, and thank you Rob for allowing it to happen.
The coins are posted at the tsp mint. The new back is great. I’ll order a few on the 8th.
Cool. Thanks for sharing the video. Quite informational. I kept thinking, man people haven’t the foggiest clue what it takes to start a production based business. You can’t just will things into existence.
I just ordered some silver from the TSPmint. With the MSB discount and the quality of the silver, I could not find anything better. I thought about buying on Ebay but with the volume of fake silver rounds and bars coming into production, it’s just not worth it. I would rather support the Jack and the TSP than any other vendor. I used to think that it was better to buy the pre 64 coins so that they are easily recognized when the SHTF but I feel these will be just as good. I can see the day when one of these ANT coins will trade for a shotgun and 200 slugs.
Absolutely amazing!! I was not aware of how much went into minting a coin, a quality coin at that. I’m sure some mints utilize more automated processes but I am highly impressed on how much hands on quality Rob is keeping in the process especially the roller press. Those two boys probably only have a small idea how their skill affects the finished product. As far a Rob goes, just from the video, one can tell he is a stand up straight forward honest guy. He is very dedicated to turning out a quality product.
Why are you getting involved with a mint that is involved in so much drama? I don’t know who is right, nor do I really care but all the name calling from Duane and Kokesh is reason enough to stand clear in my opinion.
Monty, I have been working with Rob and AOCS for over 4 years now, my relationship there predates anyone even giving a shit who the hell Chris Duane is. Unlike you I do know who is right because I have been involved for a long time. Chris is being a child and I am not about to stop working with a partner who has kept his word to me for five years now on everything we have ever done. Fricken Chris wouldn’t even have met Rob without my introduction.
Getting involved? Bullshit. Have been involved and I am a man that doesn’t turn my back on a partner or a friend. Perhaps Chris could learn something from that.
Any word on the mint being sued by Republic Metals? The court claims and the restraining order are pretty darn damning, but the only thing MM has commented was that the mint hasn’t ceased operations.
Interesting. I found a website that has a lot of links to the court documents, though I do know the site’s ownership is hid behind Domains by Proxy, which is often used by spammers and scammers.
The documents linked to on the site look official enough, but it is easy to forge stuff like that. And it includes Chris Duane’s lawsuit against MM too. Still, if true, it seems pretty damning, as you say.
Then click civil court information. Then search “dc-13-07434”.
That will get you to the actual court documents related to the RMC law suit. I don’t give two shits about CD’s lawsuit, so I haven’t looked into it, but the evidence being presented against MM by their silver supplier is damning as all hell, and they don’t seem to have much to say about it in or out of court. If there is any truth to it this is an embezzlement case in excess of a million dollars.
I don’t know, I am going to see Rob on Thursday. I don’t believe they misappropriated the silver but I do think this could be a big problem. When you have metal on consignment you are not going to have 100% of it on hand ever. There is no doubt Duane caused this to happen this way. The question is now, can MM and Republic come to an equitable solution. This is sort of like having a mortgage called in 100% in full.
I don’t believe Rob defrauded anyone, my concern now is will the mint survive the smear campaign and all that has come with it. The danger here is Republic is asking to have all operations shut down.
I will give you guys an update on Friday after my visit with Rob.
One thing I don’t like about the complaint is that it infers that Republic has only done business with the Gray’s for about 5 months, the truth is Republic and the Gray’s go back 5 years. The owner of the company actually died at a conference a few weeks ago. I feel like Chris Duane got in touch with the new owner and scared the shit out of him.
What Rob has told me is he doesn’t disagree that he owes Republic a shit ton of silver, he has some on hand but not all, is willing to come up with a timeline of repayment and would actually prefer to keep the 5 year relationship intact.
This puts me in a tough spot. On one hand I trust Rob but even if he is 100% right here, clearly his business it as risk and so any orders in “float” if a cease and desist order comes are also at risk. This is of course at a time when the mint needs business. It is a very tough spot for me. My only real concern is for anyone who has ordered and not yet gotten their silver. I personally have zero direct risk here, I can live with or with out what I am currently owed.
Thanks, and I hope you are right. Best of luck on Thursday. You are right that CD is 100% behind this and he is publicly claiming sole credit from turning RMC against MM. Even if he is right on some points, I trust nothing from that guy so I’m hoping for all sides of the story – not just the bitter ex girlfriend’s.
What frankly has me more nervous than the accusations are the minimalist dodging responses from the mint. I’ve posted a few solicitations for a response to their Facebook page to see if they have anything to say, but whoever is responding is avoiding any direct comment. I also read the court papers, and the accusations are laid out in painstaking detail (all of which could be a plausible temporary deficit of business expansion), and the responses from MM have only been the generic legal denials, and give the appearance of stalling.
I agree this would be a crappy time for their customer base to contract, but nothing they are doing is engendering consumer confidence. I have one order outstanding on the TSP side and one on the SBSS side. If one or both got caught up in a folding, I wouldn’t loose sleep over it, but it would be unfortunate.
I’ll tell you what worries me about the allegations: that Mulligan Mint misappropriated silver from his client. What the complaint says is that Republic gave MM silver for its use and its use only and MM is alleged to have used it for other customers.
What it sounds like is because MM was having problems with procuring silver, he took what he had on hand likely in the hopes that its supply situation would sort itself out and it could be replenished with none the wiser.
If that is the case, and obviously it’s only speculation, then what that is akin to is what Jon Corzine did at MF Global, raiding customer accounts to cover bad bets and hoping they’d get an influx of funds in to cover the raid. And if it is the case, then what that is not just just tough luck or bad business, but criminal.
I don’t want to cast aspersions and I’m only going on the basis of what the complaint is alleging, and that can be a very one-sided document, And the only reason I bring that up because it would seem the authorities would then be able to track orders that were sent out using the “purloined” silver and claw it back from the recipients. Just as some people who had cashed out early from Bernie Madoff’s Ponzi scheme because their funds were illegally obtained — not by them, but by Madoff and you can’t allow sometime to have the proceeds of a crime — people who ordered and received silver may yet have it seized from them.
Again, I’m only speculating, but if the allegations are true, or close enough, it’s a plausible enough outcome.
The core accusation isn’t that silver was used for other customers, but rather that they used the silver to fulfill orders (which is exactly what it was for), and taking money that should have been set aside for the silver purchase and using it for personal use. A lot of this would have to do with the details of the consignment agreement (which to my knowledge isn’t public). Was the consignment agreement laid out such that at the point of sale some portion was to be set aside for RMC, or was there just an ongoing agreement that eventually (or on some period) things would be squared away. That is a big question and given that the accusation is personal embezzlement, it doesn’t sound like there was a due date that lapsed.
As for CD, I believe NOTHING he says. If he says something serious enough, I will look elsewhere for corroboration, but his word means as much as his integrity. If he had his way, he would have taken his profits, the mint’s dies, and left his customers 100% screwed. If you believe him then one day a private corporation summoned Rob, then commandeered the mint while Rob was away, and sent all the workers home except David, then days later the story changes to a meeting that Rob called, and the amount of silver in question completely changes. If you believe CD then he is some angel that owns a copyright that he tried to screw over his former partner for. He is a shitstain on anything resembling integrity. The only thing his video did is get me to prod for independent press releases and or actual court records which somebody on the forum was kind enough to locate.
I hadn’t received my Sentinel Proofs that I had stayed up until 1:00 am ET to make sure that I got one of the first orders. In the mean time I had placed two more TSP and one SBSS orders. So I sent them an email asking about the delay on the Sentinel Proofs this past Thursday. I received the same response that I have received in the past when I have questioned the long waits, no direct response, but within two days I received my shipping info email. On Friday and Sunday (yesterday), I received shipping emails on my two other TSP orders. So now I am only waiting on my SBSS order. So apparently they are still filling orders at this time. For that I am relieved, as Chris did manage to cause me some concern with his Mulligan Mint is dead video.
I will go to the post office tomorrow to pick up my Andrew Jackson’s. Hopefully my Sentinel Proofs will come in tomorrow. Then I just have to wait another day or two for my Sentinel BU/2nd Amendment order.
I hope everything works out well for the Mulligan Mint.
I know all the reprinted covers for the proof came in last week and all of them should have shipped by now. As of Friday only 213 ounces were waiting to be shipped to TSP customers.
On SBSS, it isn’t my product, I don’t get involved with it or anything other then the products we specifically sell via my site.
My SBSS order finally came through after months of waiting. Hopefully you’ll get yours. I fully expect there will be some SBSS orders that do not get fulfilled, and folks will get the shaft. If that happens, hopefully we’ll get to see Rob looking back at us from behind some bars some day.
Yes. I did receive all of my orders. From what I have heard, MM waited until all orders were fulfilled before fully switching over to “Coins For The Cause”. So I do not think that anybody should be waiting on any orders, unless the order was placed in the last two or three weeks. Except for the Sentinel Proofs, my other recent orders shipped within a reasonable time frame.
I would have to say that MM has done absolutely horrible at shipping on a first come, first served basis. Chris and Jack both said that orders would be filled on a first come, first served basis at different times, but I never heard that from MM. So maybe I cannot rate them on that, as they never said it to us. Maybe MM said it to Chris and Jack, but not the public? I stayed up until midnight and I was one of the very first people to place a Sentinel Proof order, yet I wound up with coins in the 230’s. They hadn’t hit 230 sold six hours later when I woke up for work in the morning. This has been a repetitive issue with them.
By the way, apparently the posters that were supposed to come with the purchase of 5 Sentinel Proofs are still delayed. After I received my order, minus the poster, I sent an email asking about the poster. The response that I received told me about the issues and assured me that they would ship by “the end of next week at the latest”. That would make it August 3rd at the latest. Maybe they have shipped, and they aren’t sending shipping info/tracking due to expense. I would understand that.
While I can agree that MM has not been held to the same standards that the TSP sponsors are held to, and I have been frustrated with long waits in the past, they seem like they are finally getting it close to right. Like I said before, my most recent orders shipped in a timely manner. If Jack trusts them enough to come out with more designs, I will place more orders. Until the lawsuits are done, I will not be placing orders for more than 5 ounces or so, so that I do not have too much to lose if MM gets screwed. That means that I will probably not qualify for the $.30 per PARAdime premium. I can live with that. I feel that small orders, in order to limit exposure, is the way to go for now. MM may not like the idea much, but will probably understand should others do the same thing.
The posters are my fault, they are on my table, you will get them eventually. I have to sign a shit ton of them, may be if I could stop dealing with all this Chris Duane bullshit I could get them all signed.
Okay. I will wait. I understand your frustration. I am sorry that you are now stuck in the middle of this garbage Thank you for providing some details. Otherwise we hear nothing but Chris’s side and MM would be losing even more business. I hope Rob thanks you often for your support.
By the way, last year I had joined Chris’s SSG to find out more of what it was about. After a couple months, I cancelled and now send that money to something useful, a lifetime NRA membership.