Episode-746- Bryan Davis from on the Ancients and Their Food — 112 Comments

  1. Just started the 30 day run of this, to see how well it works. Scary how alike the community thinks.

  2. When you dig into the Paleo community you will find that they are all about getting and eating healthy. That is all about survival. In the near future I think the Modern survival and paleo communities will come toether in a big way.

  3. Quick question, I have a 10L polish water seal sourkrout crock (here: ). Do I need to fill it completely or should I not worry about the air volume between the lid and food? Is this type of fermentation different than what is described in a mason jar? The added value to the crock is supposed to be that you dont have to check and stir the sourkrout every day since the water seal prevents any new molds or yeasts from entereing the jar and the high initial salt content prevents all but the beneficial bacteria from surviving.

    • If you have a Harsch crock that’s a german crock. They are awesome! I have 2, I’d have 20 if I could afford em. You will fill that crock 75% full. Then add the weight stones, press down, they should be submerged by 1/2 inch of water, if not add water or brine. There will be lots of air space, not to worry, it will fill with carbon dioxide in no time and push the ‘air’ out.
      Once the lid is set and sealed, do not check on this ferment, you have to let it go without opening. Ideal for long term or any ferment really, best results you can get. No molds no kahm yeast on your food. Also, keep an eye on the water lever for long term ferments. get the book ‘Making Sauerkraut’ by Klaus Kaufmann, I think it’s $8 on amazon.

    • Use the stone weights to keep the cabbage submerged under the liquid and it wont matter how much is in the crock.

    • I think he might have answered that when suggesting to use a plastic bag filled with water to hold the cabbage below the water line. I am no expert just saying.

  4. I would also suggest the Primal Blueprint book by Mark Sisson. Check out his website at

  5. Now that I think about it the Paleo community is full of awsome bloggers, podcasters, and entrepanuers. three podcasts off the top of my head are is two women and a male moderator. Good for the wife and get the family involved. Then there is the that is Rob Wolfe and it gets into the workout stuff. is the news and opionion in the community with angelo coppela. The last one is the one I would recomend for this group to learn about paleo and the controverseies in there.

  6. “This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption … Beer!”

    Friar Tuck, in the movie Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves

  7. On your wheat comments… it seems to be the same thing with Soy. The fermented version is okay for people, where the non-fermented causes problems… Just a note.

  8. Great info Martin Hickey, I listen to all those shows and more. Robb’s a beast of info and Angelo is a great guy that covers a lot of ground.

    Thanks for spreading the word.

    You might also check out:
    Jimmy Moore’s Livin’ Low Carb Show
    Hanks Journey from fat to fit (disclaimer: I’m on the most recent episode)

  9. Best book I have read on fermenting and making it easy is:

    Wild Fermentation: The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods
    by Sandor Ellix Katz and Sally Fallon

    Available on Amazon

  10. Truly surprised no one here has yet mentioned either the Weston A. Price Foundation with their book “Nourishing Traditions” or Sandor Katz’s “Wild Fermentation”. Both mention lacto-fermentation in great depth. (Nourishing Traditions mentions a whole lot more than that, but fermented foods, including fermented dairy, kombucha, etc. are woven into the whole book)

    • Everyday Paleo (cited above) and Paleo Solution as well as Latest in Paleo cite them a lot. So if one is really interested then they would find them digging two layers.

    • Actually Wild Fermentation is linked to in the show notes above. But it is noted by it’s subtitle ‘The Flavor, Nutrition, and Craft of Live-Culture Foods’.

      Yes!- Nourishing Traditions may very well be the most important cookbook a kitchen or library could have.

    • This is all quite strange. Just this week I got back into studying info from the Price Foundation and Sally Fallon, and then I see this recent episode here. All that synchronous stuff again. 😉 And I was just coming here to post about the Price Foundation and happened to see you beat me to it. 😉
      So yes, surely I highly advise Nourishing Traditions. If you’re up for it, definitely check out Sally Fallon’s 2008 3 DVD set of “Nourishing Traditional Diets” as well, “The Oiling of America”.
      Health & Wellness can get very confusing and I’ve studied years into this of all sorts of types, going vegan for some time, then back again, each time I end up back to the logic of Sally’s teachings. Something just feels right about it. She gives incredible detail (in the book and at seminars) which just makes sense, based on science, studies, and just plain old common sense.
      Quick answer, like in the theme of this show, if we just ate like our ancestors, and trying to get the best quality of the modern day natural foods, we would be fine.

      P.S. Soy was mentioned earlier, even the fermented type. Just want to mention, Sally cautions against soy altogether. It takes much longer for fermentation in order to remove the negative aspects. Even estrogens can still remain. And for the Japanese and miso, well they have something in the high fish diet that helps compensate for the negatives in soy.
      You just have to see Sally’s DVDs and the incredible detail.

      Let’s get the populace eating well again! Not just general health and longevity, but as we know, when you eat better, you think better and more clearly. The fog lifts. I’m sure tptb don’t want more people to be thinking more clearly, they don’t want this because they know it’s very effective and threatening their evil plans, so therefore, all the reason to be getting better.

  11. So if you were to get only one book now (maybe some others later) what would be the best book. I think I may have missed that?

    • I definitely vote for Sally Fallon’s “Nourishing Traditions”! It’s a nice thick book with great recipes, lots of science and studies, and just an all around great summary of this whole confusion that health & wellness can be in the modern days.
      There’s also a lot of info and recipes on fermenting.
      See the many high reviews at
      (also see my comment above in regards to the DVDs)

  12. I think he is way outside of moderation. Just another fad diet. It’s better to have a good balance. To say that grains and beans are evil is just as wrong as a vegan diet.

    • You are spot on. I’m way outside of moderation.
      A fad may be described by a behavioral trend, but a diet free of grains and legumes predates agriculture by millions of years. Evolution would be the key here. You can read about the science, experiment on your own, or set it aside completely. No worries.
      Best to you on your path!

    • In the show you mention that you used to be veggie. That’s like a baptist going catholic or something 🙂

      I actually don’t care that people eat this way or that way, but its always interesting when the arguments are put forth about this food religion (eat local) or that food religion (vegan!) or another food religion (paleo).

      It really is a religious debate. As a Christian, I believe that man has been agrarian since we were cognisant, vegetarian at first and then later on omnivores.

      The neatest part is that God made humans to survive on a wide range of foods. From the herdsman of africa to the hindus of india and everything inbetween. 6 billion people and 6 billion diets, and somehow we all survive and thrive as long as we get enough calories.

      • Interesting link. The fact remains that there is more evidence of long life in modern times than there was in pre-industrial society. There probably isn’t any way to know lifespans in the ‘paleo’ world but I imagine it would have been just as short if not shorter than lifespans in recorded history.

        I am not buying the ‘older is better’ when there isn’t actually a record of what was eaten. It’s all guesses and speculation.

        Any theory that excludes grains has to be off course. Humans have lived off grains for the last 6000 years at least and wouldn’t have survived only trying to eat meat. Can you imagine the paleo diet expanded to the earth’s current 6(?) billion inhabitants?

        That being said, do whatever makes you happy / healthy. I try to subscribe to my immediate ancestor’s diets of lots of grits, eggs, bacon and the like 🙂 When it’s my time it’s my time.

        • @Jamey it is easy to dismiss what you simply do not want to believe. What we do have is tons of fossil records and from them we can determine the health of the people from the paleo age. We can also see the immediate onset of many “modern illnesses” with the advent of agriculture. Old bones don’t lie, read Robb Wolf’s book with an open mind the science on the facts are totally overwhelming.

        • I don’t doubt that it’s a healthy diet, anything with meat would be 🙂

          I guess my point is that you can’t tell from fossils what the diet consisted of. There is no way to tell from scratches on teeth or whatever that they ate this or that cabbage fermented or unfermented. Cancers in the brain or gut or any soft tissue don’t survive the fossilization process.

          Heck they didn’t know exactly what the mammoths ate until they found one with half digested food in it’s gut and that was not too long ago.

          So again, it’s not the diet itself, more the basis for it that is faulty.

          I am not going to buy a book I have no use for (wouldn’t do any diet) but I don’t think it serves the survival community to promote this idea over say veganism. They are both very flawed and out of balance.

        • @Jamey,

          Actually we know a lot about what they ate some from strict science what we eat does leave a signature in our bones.

          However we also know that agriculture only came about 10,000 years ago, we also know that even then it wasn’t everywhere and that is all we really need to know. Consider that 9000 years from now people were found buried around a walmart it would be hard to know what they ate, it could be anything from twinkies to organic lettuce. However if all the boxed food, all the dairy, all the potatoes and grains and other major agriculture products etc. were removed leaving only natural fruits, greens, tubers and meat in the store we would know EXACTLY what they ate.

          We know what people ate more than 10,000 years ago because we know what was available for them to eat and we know what wasn’t available.

      • If you have no onset of disease in your family, if your clan tends to grow very old and suddenly drop dead (known as- compression of morbidity) then you are truly blessed.
        For others not so fortunate, those interested in preventing and even reversing dreadful modern diseases, this can be accomplished with a Paleo lifestyle. I don’t know if you’ve been out in public in middle America and looked at your fellow man (say, in a walmart) but that is not what a human should look like, they wouldn’t last 2 days in nature. Or perhaps you haven’t heard how horrifically sick and diseased our population is? Ahh, so be it.
        I’m not here to convince the unconvinced. The old saying goes, ‘A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still’.

        I seek to reach those looking for new paths and new answers. I cannot spend my time debating the merits of my path. I’ll leave that to the scientists who dedicate their lives to this cause.
        I must keep going forward.

        I appreciate hearing others opinions, but I do get a bit charged up. If I sound out of line, I apologize.

        I wish you all the best Jamey.

        • Yah no worries, I have a lot of respect for people with ’causes’ even if I don’t agree with the actual cause. I lift a virtual glass of wine to you (is that paleo-legal?).

          So that I don’t sound completely nit-picky, I enjoyed the fermentation part of the show and thought it was very helpful from a prepping standpoint (even if I can’t get my kids to eat sourkrout)

  13. I emailed Robb Wolf (Author of the Paleo Solution) once about being a guest on the show and he was pretty psyched about being on. I think maybe his guest submission thing got dropped or didn’t send. Maybe I should email him again lol

    • Good Luck! Robb told me he had 75 media requests last week alone. I was expecting to have him on my show, but no way. When you’re international I imagine he might feel an obligation to focus on the biggest venues. Can’t say I blame him. Sure would be swell to have a personal conversation with him though.
      For now I listen to his podcast, read his blog and promote his book myself. Call me a disciple if you will. Thanks for commenting, I love the conversation.

  14. Hey there Roundabouts,

    The book depends on the path you seek.
    Wild Fermentation or The Paleo Solution and you could do no wrong.

    A few of the books mentioned in previous posts are all excellent as well. Go to the library and get them all! Just be prepared to wait in line- This fad is quite popular these days.

  15. Love this episode! Thanks Bryan for reiterating this topic for me – it’s been a while since I heard about paleo diet but apparently with me, things take forever to sink in so that I start to act upon them :).

    Great show, wonderfully concluded! Thank you.

  16. Fun show. I’m wondering how Brian feels about fermented dairy products since dairy runs counter to the Paleo diet.

    And I’d love to meet this crazy friend asking about meat sustainability!


    • Although Dairy is not a part of the core Paleo diet I do believe dairy has it’s place. I don’t drink milk, but for those continuing to grow and as a medium for ferment, it has it’s merits. I do consume raw cream and also culture that cream to make butter.
      You may say I am a contradiction from point to point along the evolutionary theme. Yes. Yes I am. I pick my spots and do what I can.

    • Thanks for saying the show was fun! That’s my goal, I don’t like getting bogged down in details on the air. I try to be somewhat entertaining and Jack is excellent at keeping the tempo up and at near full tilt.

    • Brian

      That is awesome. I did enjoy the show. Glad you are not closed off to dairy. Its a great protein source but one I’m not sure we are firmly evolved to eat much in raw form. I’m not on the paleo diet. My philosophy on eating lately and one I’ve preached is eat simply. Similar to someone said above I believe. If you can’t pronounce it don’t eat it. Well I can pronounce enriched wheat flour but I try not to eat it. I prefer to eat things with one-word names and no words that aren’t referring to the original food. For instance, squash, tomato. LOL A big thing in the south is casserole. Basically you take something that is good to eat and smother it in butter (I’m sorry – partially hydrogenated …), crackers and cheese and its horrible.

      My only problem with meat is just the sheer fact that on a level of a bunch of people sitting on their butts in the city its not going to work for very long. On the level of people raising their own it can and does work. But we can’t keep letting South Americans cut down the Amazon so we can buy meat with our unsustainable currency.

      Whatever your view on grain, its just not right for some people. It’s definitely not right for ruminants. Oddly enough, if humans would just brew all of the grain and then feed the distiller’s grains to the cattle all would be relatively well. It’s the starch that the brewing takes out and the cow can’t digest. You touched on this well I think.

      If you were to take all of the arable land on earth and divide it up amongst every man woman and child you’d each get about 2.5 acres each (based on my rough rough rough math). You’d have to work very carefully to put enough food on your land to make ends meet. What do you keep for wildlife? Is it more worthwhile to put in an orchard or a pasture? There’s ways around some of this. Intercropping, intergrazing, inter etc. But in the long run if you had to have all of your calories from your land and you could get 20,000 calories off a piece of land with one method and 10,000 with another it’d be odd to choose the one that gave you 10,000.

      I don’t think anyone who believes in evolution can dispute the fact that man was a hunter-gatherer. As much as I love hunting and fishing though I’d have to say the term puts more emphasis on hunter than is deserved. It should really be gatherer-hunter. I think the bigger lesson is that mankind is not an omnivore but an opportunivore. We can go anywhere and live. Whether it’s in a rice field in China or on a plain with roaming bison.

      I hear a lot of BS on the web about: if we were supposed to be omnivores why don’t we have claws? Well there’s a reason why mankind is the most dangerous game and its located right behind our eyes.

      The only thing that hangs me up on grain is what the brain uses for fuel. I think the Native Americans knew this instinctively and that’s why they grew corn and hunted bison.


  17. This sounds alot like Atkins, or any other low carb diet ,just added the fermented foods.Anyone else think that ?

    • I believe that there’s a chance if Dr. Atkins was still alive and evolving his diet plan he would probably have merged his thoughts over to the evolutionary perspective. Just speculation on my part. If you are curious as to the differences, dig in and investigate further. True Paleo really is the discovery of what man ate over the course of several million years, that is it, not some made up jive to fuel another food bar industry and fake food craze. I’m only preaching this from the perspective of respect for history and the respect for those that got us here. I think it’s a story worth investigating.

    • paleo doesn’t have to be about macronutrient ratios (carbs vs. fats vs. protein). The thing everyone agrees on is food quality, meaning avoiding stuff like vegetable oils, most grains, etc. Different paleo folks have different opinions about the details.

  18. The Wheat Belly book mentioned in the podcast seems to be about modern GE wheat. Any idea if the wheat-causing health issues are also linked to organic wheat?

  19. Great show Jack, another book to look into about the problems with grains is “Protein Power” by husband and wife physicians named Eades (sorry I can’t rember their first names.) Seems they traced the advent of hypertension, diabetes and cancer to the cultivation and use of wheat. Also, as soon as Bryan mentioned “Rabbit starvation”, I could almost quote your response. I was listening and my wife was in the room and I said outloud, “Oh, here it comes.” And for the person who said this was just another “Fad Diet”, this was the diet that got us here.

    • Yes. Michael and Mary Dan Eades great resource. Also take a look at Paul Jaminet and his Perfect Health Diet.
      Talk about info overload. Sorry.
      I mentioned rabbit starvation in historical reference only. Jack quickly kicked my butt on that from the modern rabbit perspective, I made the comment on the fly and I’m no expert on the subject- Jack is sharp and knows his shit. No doubt!

  20. Roundabout-My favorite book ever-Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon-
    Lots of Studies in the margins with recipes on the middle of the page. Studies back up eating the foods-fermented, bone broths rich with gelatin for absorption of minerals, collagen and proteins, right fats,that kill yeast, grass fed meat and grass fed eggs. The recipes brought me health.

  21. I am looking forward to listening to this episode, just downloaded it to my Ipod. My husband and I have been talking about this diet and possibly trying it for 30 days. (We are bread addicts!)
    I think it will help us incorporate more lean meat and fruits & veggies into our diet.
    Funny how I was just getting ready to write in and ask Jack’s thoughts on this type of lifestyle… this community is truly in sync!

  22. Nobody has mentioned kim chi yet… It’s sauerkraut with a hot chili kick! It’s a real staple at our place, we eat some just about every dinner. And dirt cheap to make. We put a little bowl of water out for the kids to dip theirs in, it takes away enough of the heat that they can handle it.

  23. When I saw the title of this show I was really hoping that your guest was going to mention the Paleo Diet. He said that it is based on evolution but creationist use the Paleo diet too, at least I do. Paleo is huge among Crossfit’ers who are some of the fittest people on the planet. Paleo is also really big in the Marine Corps because we are very big on performance and Paleo is a performance enhancing diet. I was also pleased to hear your guest mention the importance of fitness. I’ve heard Jacks reasons for not making Fitness a tenant of survivalism, but I must respectfully disagree. I’ll paraphrase from the crossfit journal on this on. The fitness needed by world classes athletes, cage-fighters, US Marines, and 80 year old Grand-Mothers vary by degrees not kinds. Use the same routines for elderly individuals with heart disease and cage ?ghters one month out from televised bouts. Scale load and intensity; don’t change programs.

    Semper Fi

  24. I’ve been Paleo(ish) since January of this year because I was starting to feel old and that pissed me off. I say ‘ish’ because while I don’t drink milk – never did, yuck – I do use ½ & ½ in my coffee and eat tons of homemake Greek yogurt plus truckloads of veggies, lots of meat, ZERO grains and ZERO sugars aside from a bit of fruit each day.

    If for some reason I were to wake up one morning having lost all knowledge of how old I am (this would require a loss of all mirrors too) I’d guess early 30’s. I’m 64.

  25. Awesome show! My brother and I both went paleo this year, and it’s worked out well for us.

    Jack, if you could get ahold of Robb Wolf, I think he’d be a great guest for the show. I agree with Bryan that the whole health and fitness aspect of preparedness is huge. Robb is a fountain of knowledge, a big fan of permaculture and a solid libertarian. I think the two of you would have a gas.

    • Weaver you are correct. Robb Wolf is amazing. He has a message that needs to be heard. I’m just a budding disciple.
      I’m glad to hear you’re having great success with a Paleo approach.

  26. As always, Jack, you run a topic right before I can email you about it. I have Ankylosing Spondilitis (or Reactive Arthritis) which caused me immense pain for 14 years before I started a Starch-diet. I have be nearly cured. Cone to find out that the base of the genetic condition starts from a bacteria bloom in the gut that feeds and reproduces like crazy in the presence of starches. My wife has IBS with oddly enough is caused by nearly the same process. She reluctantly started the diet and in two days she was cured!!! She had suffered since she was a kid!

    The next step id like to see you take would be storing for this kind of diet. Bryan, could you comment on this as well.

    Thanks guys!!

    • Tony, Wow! I really need to talk to you directly. I have someone coming to my workshop specifically seeking guidance for her Ankylosing Spondilitis. She is in real bad shape and only in her mid 30’s, from what I’ve been told. I haven’t met her yet. It’s hard for me to fathom that people are coming to me for guidance, but there it is.
      I’m nearly a self experimenter that does a lot of research, I know nothing about Spondilitis. Your story could help her.
      Tony please email me directly so we can talk. Thank You.

  27. I got the book The Paleo Solution and Everyday Paleo. Have read them both already and went food shopping. The only thing I really had to buy was some shrimp since we were out. Funny my most fav breakfast is pork chop with some sort of fruit. Fav snacks almonds. If I listen to my body and what it NEEDS I naturally gravitate to this. How ever over the last few years a burger here and there garlic bread some soda and a box a mac n cheese and I am hooked on the crap again. I swear they put addictive stuff in there. Because there was a time just the thought of eating tons of bread or Taco Bell made me sick. If I ate it well it was not pretty. We are both excited and know we will start feeling better again soon.

    He really loves the cookbook great pics easy to follow day by day and all he has to do is poto copy the shopping list out of the book. We did put tabs on it to mark out each section for easier searching.
    Now we can share easier in the cooking and when I take a meal off he can grab his “manual”. Love the business idea also but one step at a time.

  28. I’m from a very rare class of that less-than-one-percent-of-the-human-population weirdo who is allergic to certain forms of fermentation. As far as regular every day allergies go, I am allergic to spore/mold pathogens, so no moldy basements for me. And when it comes to food, I almost died the first time I ever ate a soy based fermented food called tempeh. My eyes got all puffy and red, I suffered an asthma attack, and got rushed to the ER for what I think was an epinephrin shot (I was a teenager so I just don’t recall).

    I have never liked fermented foods, and my allergy is probably why my taste buds always try to tell me not to eat the stuff. While this episode was fascinating, I don’t think I can attempt this diet.

    • Thanks for the comment Oil Lady,
      Fermented foods and a Paleo diet are not tied together. Living a Paleo lifestyle doesn’t need to have anything to do with food fermentation. Many folks add the fermented foods on their course of dietary discover. It may very well be this is not an option for you. The bright side is you are not excluded from a whole food Paleo diet!

      Also, you may have had a problem with the soy (or other legume) and or the process by which the tempeh was produced / stored. Sounds very similar to an MSG reaction.

      If you strongly believe you cannot eat cultured foods (i.e. chocolate, cheese, pickles, wine, beer, yogurt, sourdough, kraut, kombucha…) maybe ask a functional medicine doc if you could add a pro-biotic to your program.

      Best wishes to you!

  29. Thanks, Bryan. Just to clarify about the allergy to fermented foods, I was working my second day of employment in a vegetarian food production plant where the only thing they produced there all day long was tempeh. It was run by a team of vegetarians, and all the ingredients were 100% natural and organic. They had contracted several local farmers to grow organic soybeans for them. (This was over 20 years ago when I was still a kid and GMO’s were still only being theorized about.) So there were no MSG’s involved.

    I ate a cake of fresh tempeh right off the production line during my lunch break, and so the fermentation (based upon an airborne spore called rhizopus) was still an active culture in the cake. I left for the day at about 3:30 and had the asthma attack on my way home.

  30. I’m looking forward to listening to this episode. My current IBS flare is at three weeks and counting and I”m tired of being in pain. I bought a copy of “Nourishing Traditions” a few years ago but it’s so big and full of info I didn’t know where to start.

  31. AWESOME!!!!! I’ve been getting into Paleo over the past few months. I’m training for a 1/2 marathon, and a lot of site’s I read advocate it. I’ve been trying to live Paleo for about 2 months now, and I’ve shed 8 pounds. I know I’m training for a 1/2, but I really think it’s from the diet. I’m running, riding my fixie, and doing some cross fit for my training. I feel like I have more enegery than I know what to do with.

    I’ve been seeing a lot on Paleo lately. Lew Rockwell even did a podcast Here’s another blog I read Someone already posted Mark Sission, but there’s a lot of great stuff out there.

    @ Bryan Davis (Like the “Y” not the “I”)- Have you read or heard of The Paleo Diet for Athletes A couple of the running site’s I read talk about it. They say it’s good to have a bit for carb’s for recovery from tough workout’s.

    • Great stuff Bryan B.
      Very smart to point out the Lew Rockwell podcast. I had no idea he was Paleo till I recently heard that episode. He’s a smart man.
      Thanks for the feedback and the links.

  32. I am 52, an avid Paleo eater, crossfitter and Robb Wolf fan. I am also a 30 yr. petroleum geologist. The only reason i mention that is because I want everyone to know I approched the “paleo” lifestyle with a great deal of scientific skeptisim. After 5 yrs. of incorporating more and more paleo thought into my life style, I have seen my times and strength increase during a time when I should be losing both time and strength. For the 10 years previous to “paleo” i had my bloodwork done at least once if not twice per year. I was crossfitting at this time. My average total cholest. was 210 over that time, but due to working out my hgl/ldl ratio was extremely good and the doc was happy. Now with animal fat as my main energy source my total cholest. ave. 160. My only arguement with the speaker today is that, you can be a person of faith and also follow the paleo lifestyle. Regardless of worldview it doesn’t take much to realize that evolved or created our bodies are not designed to digest grains and beans.

    • Whoah. Why would you say you take issue with me? I did say evolution based diet, ‘if you believe in that’. Meaning by definition the Paleo diet is the study of what Paleolithic man ate across several million years. If I offended I apologize. I accept any faith, any belief that is not hate. Sun, Earth, God, whatever you’ve bring, I’m fine with that. I only meant that for a strict creationist they might take issue with the 3 million years of Paleo, vs. the 10,000+ years of Neolithic agriculture argument (or as Kurt Harris calls it the Neolithic Agents Of Disease).
      My apologies if you found me anything other than accommodating to your faith.

      I love your Paleo lifestyle testimonial, inspirational!

  33. Thank you so much for sharing this very important information. I am severely gluten intolerant, which is both the worst thing and the best thing to happen healthwise to one who “lives to eat”, not “eats to live”!

    I have been applying Paleo concepts since the fall (I haven’t had the chance to read any of the books; I only have listened to podcasts and read blogs). Even that hasn’t been anywhere near 100% Paleo. However, since that time, I have replaced my “keg” abs with “6-pack” abs and lost 15 lbs without even trying. (Now I have to wear my CCW, or my pants won’t stay on!) I look like I have been weight training at the gym, but I actually cancelled my membership since working on my micro-homestead was so demanding (UG! Me pick up big rocks and big logs!) My head has been clearer and I have had more energy since any time since when I discovered I was gluten intolerant. I used to be plagued by IBS. (Even the effects of just gluten-free eating, as profound and astonishing as it was for my digestion, energy and brainpower, was short-lived as, once the novelty wore off, the sugars and gluten-free grains still had a bad effect on my body). With the benefits of Paleo eating made real, I no longer miss sweets and grains as I don’t want to feel “icky” or mentally sluggish. I also qualified for the very best life insurance rates that drew bloodwork and had an excellent bill of health from the doctor 3 weeks ago. Listen to your body!

    I am a Christian and don’t believe in evolution and several at my church are also on the Paleo diet. I don’t want prospective dieters to think the logic or benefits of the Paleo diet hinge solely upon evolution. What about gene expression, for example?

    It is indeed of the utmost importance that we take responsibility now for our own health and the only bodies we have; especially since we will very likely soon lose any access to so-called health care, either through personal disaster, public disaster or government interference.

    • Hi Bryan,
      I just saw your response to an above comment after I posted and hope that I did not offend you, brother! I appreciate your openness and acceptance! I also appreciate you taking the time to record this podcast and to respond to our comments!

  34. What a testimonial Agorculture!
    Fantastic message all around. You are the kind of neighbor a person wants to have, whether they know it or not.

    I love it! Best to you on your Paleo journey.

  35. Thanks Bryan or the great advice. May I also add that sourdough bread, with its acidic lactobacillus culture is probably a lot healthier than regular yeast bread. The Ancients, as you might say, or in any case bakers from previous centuries made sourdough as there was no dry yeast available. The starter sponges (wet flour and bacteria cultures) they used to make bread inevitably turn sour with time. Our unhealthy yeast bread is a modern innovation.

    • There is an amazing baker in L.A. named Bezian. You should look him up if you want to hear about sourdough- He’s a crazy wild yeast I think, anyway, yes, Roman soldiers marched on the fuel of sourdough and lacto-fermented salami. True! (or so I’m told)

  36. Just a comment about the statement he made that the human body was made to eat meat. If you believe the bible then you must disagree with this statement (if you don’t then ignore the rest of this and carry on). The initial food for the human body was nuts and fruits. We were never intended to eat meat.

    Don’t get me wrong I love a good ribeye as much as the next guy but that is not what our bodies were designed to eat.

    • @Bill I have to say you have no basis for that claim other than someone’s misguided interpretation. Genesis alone calls on man to have “dominion over every living thing that creeps upon the earth”. Besides men were eating meat and other things LONG BEFORE we had the written word. To infer otherwise is to totally ignore science. I believe personally science and religion can coexist but it seldom happens.

    • Bill, what then about the dietary guidelines in Leviticus, as well as Jesus in regards to lamb and fish, and meat present at the Last Supper? Nowhere in scripture, Old or New Testament, is there mention of NOT eating meat. I’m sure it would be there if God wanted His people going that route. Besides, with heavy science, as presented by Sally Fallon for example, amongst so many others, and a long history of meat eating, this alone is enough to make the case. We’re all just trying to learn and do the best we can. Just offering up that bit of info. Best to you.
      PS, in regards to the speaker’s points. Imho, as I believe in a Creation aspect, the millions of years of human existence on earth does not fit with me, therefore, that removes the argument for humans not eating grains since their dawn. As well, was under the impression that Paleo diets push not eating saturated fat of animal products, imho, this can be dangerous. As Sally Fallon makes the case, not only is saturated fat of healthy, properly raised animals fine, but actually required for proper health and well being. Just my 02 cents.

    • I did not say that we were not permitted to eat meat now. Only that our original diet (what our body was designed to eat) in the beginning was not meat.

    • According to the bible, people didn’t eat meat until after the flood. Interestingly enough, apparently the animals also didn’t have fear of man until then. The moses stuff (leviticus) was well after that.

      Jack, you might find some interesting stuff from some of the ‘unbelievable’ things in the bible that present a better history that the computer animators at discovery channel come up with 🙂

      • @Jamey another completely subjective interpretation. First learn your own book,

        “Genesis 1:28 – And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.”

        I am sure Noah and his kin would not be eating meat during the flood as they had two of all beasts and were charged with saving them. There was nothing in the book prior to state that men should not or did not eat meat.

        Lastly I find a literal interpretation of the bible kind of hard to accept. Specifically the old testament given the prior written works of the Egyptians and the massive overlap in things. Take the correlation between the Egyptian Spell of the Dead and The Ten Commandments.

        • “learn your own book”

          keep reading jack, the very next verse:
          ” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. ”

          And lets jump to the point where Noah gets off the boat:
          “3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. ”

          “Lastly I find a literal interpretation of the bible kind of hard to accept. Specifically the old testament given the prior written works of the Egyptians and the massive overlap in things.”

          I understand. I think the most important thing to take away from the Old Testament prior to Moses is that the entire population of the earth was destroyed by a flood. A global judgement. Setting the actual dates aside, this is important because Peter said that people don’t believe in the 2nd future judgement (the earth will be destroyed by fire next time) because they have forgotten the first one:

          ” 3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. ”

          But the topic here is not bible literacy and no one ever changes anyone else’s mind on religion or politics on the internet. I suppose since a large percentage of your listening audience are probably Christian the “end of the world” bit is relevant.

          I do want to say thanks for doing your podcast and hope you continue to have success. I particularly enjoy the gardening topics and like that you don’t tow the politically correct lines on these subjects.

        • @Jamey and not a bit of that denies man the ability to eat meat. Also again if you are a biblical literalist, I just can’t really even have this conversation.

          I mean honestly I believe man has been here a LOT longer than 10,000 years, apparently you don’t?

        • I definately believe the flood was real. As far as the bible is concerned, I take the poetic stuff to be poetic, the moral stuff to be moral, historical to be historical etc.

          Back to the original question of whether man was ever in a typical PBS caveman situation, I think that would only happen temporarily as populations moved around. I think that man has always lived in communities and civilizations (including agriculture) from day one (pick a number)

  37. Loved the show – and thanks for sticking around to field questions, Bryan! Here’s mine: I think I heard you mention a quick sort of drink that used sprouted wheat berries. Can you point me toward more information?

    I am about to try to turn some stale fruit pound cake into kvass (I love that stuff!). That will be my first real foray into this kind of fermenting.


  38. @ Mash- I just made kimchi for the first time days before this aired. I took Bryan’s advice and used it to alleviate some nausea from a bad cold that is going around. (It seems that I am recovering almost twice as quickly than I had in the past, btw). The only drawback is that sauerkraut gives me bad breath, body odor and smelly sweat. Any ideas? Maybe I’ll try it without the fermented garlic and onions. Kimchi seems to be a versatile survival/economical food- it can be added to broth to make a soup.

    @roundabouts – you are correct; processed and junk foods are often manipulated to actually be addictive. I found that my tastes have changed. I can’t walk into a mall or wholesale club without feeling nauseous from the odors.

    @ Oil Lady – one consideration is that natural glutamates are present in some foods and particularly enhanced in fermentation of soy. For example, Soy Sauce and Tamari provide Umami, “the fifth taste” or savoriness.

    I wonder if some of these degenerative health problems can be in some part attributed to mycotoxins that are produced in the way grain is handled and stored prior to processing? Perhaps the wild and long fermentation can help to prevent the bad fungi from flourishing? It does take a lot of work to grow and process grain and our Neolithic ancestors certainly didn’t eat it in the quantities that we do.

    I would like to experiment with long fermentation and ancient varieties of wheat, but the consequences of being glutenized are catastrophic, so I haven’t risked it. (I have been sickened from soy sauce that contains wheat hidden in a marinade, but soy sauce may no longer be produced by fermentation any more but chemically reacted.) Even if it does work out, I will continue to eat Paleo; there is no going back.

    @Sherri – I am sorry that you are tormented by IBS. I began to treat mine by going gluten-free while you read the book and learn more. It does take commitment to reading labels and avoiding so much as a speck of flour in a meal. Listen to your body and refine the process. Eat real, natural, minimally processed foods.

    @ Bryan- thanks for the kind words! Best to you as well!

    I was also diagnosed with GERD and the doctors tried to push Prilosec, Nexium and other drugs on me, warning that I would get cancer if I didn’t take those drugs for the rest of my life! I didn’t like how they made me feel and they looked at me with horror when I told them I did shots of apple cider vinegar instead of taking their pills. (I drank it straight but later found out it should be diluted with equal parts water.) I also started eating earlier. I would no longer eat at 9 or 10 PM, but after getting home. I can still drink wine and eat things that cause heartburn, I just eat it earlier. Benjamin Franklin’s maxim “Drink not to exhilaration, eat not to dullness” applies. I rarely need vinegar shots now. I also switched from coffee to tea since coffee irritates the sphincter between the stomach and esophagus.

    Here are some interesting articles on the bacteria-brain-health connection that I and others have been sending in my local celiac support group:

    There is even a special diet, the Guts and Psychology Syndrome diet (GAPS diet) that shares many of the same principles as the Paleo diet and the Bones and Raw Foods (BARF) diet for pets. I am trying to do this for my dog as pets have also seen a skyrocketing increase in health problems!

  39. Hey there Prepper Priest,

    There are detailed instructions in Sandor’s Wild Fermentation.
    also, I did a quick search and found this youtube video, I watched it and approve of the method, a bit unorthodox, but looks good to me.
    You can use wheat berries or rye berries as well. Very different flavor.

    One warning, timing is critical, the flavor changes quickly and the flavor is not for everyone, I assure you! I would not use the sprouted grains more than once or twice, after that they get Ripe and not in a good way.
    This drink healed my long suffering mother-in-law. She adds a bit of fresh fruit to hers, in the glass at time of serving.
    If it reads like there’s a double meaning in that sentence about my mother-in-law, well, that’s just a coincidence. I was talking about her gut.

  40. Great work Agorculture!
    That about sums it all up.

    If anyone has anything else for me I’ll stick around as long as needed. Or should I say- as long as I am able.

    • Hi Roger,
      Dave (the bulletproof exec) and I did discuss this topic when he was on my show. Unfortunately that show will never be heard because of a corrupted audio file. Well, let’s just say we disagreed. Dave should be back on my show very soon and we will cover this directly.
      I will say this- you are sharp if you’re following the Bulletproof diet. Dave’s brilliant and has really poured some awesome effort into his work. I highly recommend his site.
      I am on board with dave’s work- But I ferment with gusto. If it kills me, I’ll be sure to let you know.

    • Sorry to hear that. I use the my everyday and haven’t heard of any problems from visitors in quite a long time. It is a Tumblr site and every so often they have hiccups, perhaps it’s just unlucky timing? Not sure.
      If you have any questions you can always email me directly