Episode-379- How Taxation Enslaves Society — 22 Comments

  1. Great stuff! You’re so right. We work harder and harder, but the goal post keeps getting higher.

    “You take away your own liberty.” There is pure truth!!

    Of course, we don’t need a government to force a common currency on us, or anything else for that matter. People can decide on these things for themselves. Aggression – at any scale – simply does not work!

    Don\\\’t forget about agorism – the concept of trading outside governmental purview so you can starve them of their taxes and profit silently, until such time as the market is strong enough to depose the governing gang.

  2. This is exactly why I support the fairtax. I know you do not like to be political on this website and feel free not to post it but the fairtax would at least give people more control over the amount of taxes it pays and takes away some of the controlling power of the government.

  3. @Paul, Actually I think the “fair tax” is a disaster. It would destroy the economy from a stand point of new goods by imposing what amounts to a 30% sales tax on all sales in the US.

    Further it would continue to feed all the programs fed by income and social security taxes.

    This is the issue we keep debating how much tax we should pay and in what form we should pay it instead of should we pay it at all.

    Again here is the math, cut spending to 2001 levels and we can 100% eliminate the income tax.

  4. The thing that always gets me from the “conspiracy light” POV is the idea that the most powerful people in the world can be so incompetent… In 2003 I read Herb Cohen’s book “Negotiate This!” where he discusses the power of using “calculated incompetence” in your negotiating tactics. As I read that, light bulbs went off and puzzle pieces began falling into place for me. You can call it “conspiracy dark” if you like, but the most powerful people in the world wielding “calculated incompetence” sounds a lot more realistic to me than the most powerful people in the world being incompetent.

    The public educational system is a good microcosm of government here, and the idea that “you get what you pay for”. As more and more money starts getting dumped into these systems, and the results start drifting away from where we thought they were supposed to be going, you have to begin to wonder what the true objectives are, and ask yourself “what is it we are REALLY paying for?”

    Regardless, “conspiracy light” or “conspiracy dark”, the solutions are the same: Each person must claim their own freedom and sovereignty, and create their own power and sustainability. I’m sure we’re all on the same page for that.

    Thanks for the show.

  5. M Kitchen: While I understand the point your making with the conspiracy light/dark analogy. I think Jack was more referring to conspiracy light vs conspiracy heavy ie the guy who believes it perhaps too much, ie really tightly worn tinfoil that limits bloodflow to the brain. Not specifically incompetance vs evil, as the two are not actually mutually exclusive. But rather how far down the crazy hole do you want to go to explain things.

  6. Sounds like a good documentary would be to follow taxes and see how much of our money actually goes to the goods/services received. I\’ve always wanted to figure this out. Can somebody get Michael Moore on this?

  7. OHYEAH! NO TAXES! Taxation is theft, and there is no way it won’t hamper the market.
    I would rather be treated like a customer than a citizen.

  8. Interesting read. A few weeks back a friend sent me a speech by Ronald Reagan. One quote:

    “No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this Earth”

    He gives examples of government programs to solve problems and how the problem only increased in size. Look at the numbers and see how much more they’ve increased since this 1964 speech.


    I agree on staying out of debt as part of the plan. Paying for college, I’ll disagree with the community college for 2 years first, have it be 2nd choice not 1st.

    Speaking from experience. All 4 of my sons are in college right now. 2 finishing up their masters, one graduating with his bachelor and working towards getting into grad school. One freshman. For the most part they’ve paid their own expenses, from jobs, scholarships, internships. The ones with student loans went to a smaller school first then transferred.

    It is much, much easier to get scholarships as a freshman than a transfer student. I’ve had the same kids get full ride scholarships as freshmen and fellowship/teaching assistant spots in grad school, but unable to find any significant scholarships as transfer students.

    Do all you can to get scholarships from the start, make it an early start, and make sure one of your applications is to the local community college. Some degrees such as engineering don’t accept many credits from other schools, esp. community colleges. Or they accept the credits but they don’t count towards degree.

    If you don’t get a good scholarship from the universities of choice, (reason to keep grades up in high school, great test scores), your community college may give you full tuition. Then it may be a good choice, getting
    you general ed out of the way, making sure the credits are accepted at the university of choice.

  9. Jacks solutions are correct on a personal level, and his dire predictions are inevitable. I disagree on the issue of taxation however , there is nothing intrinsically wrong with taxation. This is the only way to collect money for investments in our society.
    People consuming resources and producing nothing is unsustainable and a huge problem.
    On a national level the only jobs that are productive are ones that create wealth ,this can only be obtained through a trade surplus. Anything else is only the movement of money within our national economy.
    This is very disturbing since not only do we have trade deficits but we are borrowing money at interest to achieve it.

  10. “[taxation] is the only way to collect money for investments in our society.”

    So your investment in your car came from taxes? The supermarket down the street was paid for via taxes? That’s a false statement on its face.

    What makes the movement of money across imaginary national borders magically productive but when it moves across the transoms of our homes and our places of business’ doorways it’s not?

  11. A car and produce are not investments in our society. I’m referring to things like national defense and infrastructure .Resources that protect and perpetuate all Americans. These could be privatized but there are inherent problems in this. Our nation has a unique currency it defines the boundary economically not the geographic borders. I also said “on a national level”; If you are given money by your neighbor for a good or service it is still a trade within our monetary system there is no net gain for the system.

  12. A car is not an investment? It’s something you put money into so you can get to work better, cheaper, faster or at all.

    A supermarket is not an investment? Of course it is. It makes money for its owner or else it wouldn’t be there anymore.

    You’re right, “national defense” and infrastructure (code words for guns and bridges) can be privatized. In fact they usually are in some sense, since private companies already produce most of them.

    There is no system. There are only individuals. Everything else is an illusion. Good luck.

  13. There is a lot more than guns and bridges to national defense and our roads. A gun is not a good defense against a missile or tank. As for bridges and roads how would they be built without a levy or bond. Businesses do build roads as well as most military hardware but these items are paid for with your tax dollars. In addition how would these roads be built without eminent domain I would rather have the government do this than a corporation. Most importantly ,All of those that have died and sacrificed for the lifestyle and freedoms you now enjoy would disagree that there are only individuals.

  14. Nobody died for my lifestyle or freedom!

    Not all roads are built with eminent domain.

    You’ve got too many crazy ideas here for me to correct them all. I suggest you examine your assumptions.

  15. You hit a chord with me as I prepare my paperwork for delivery to our CPA. We are in a strangle-hold with taxes and expenses that appear to be out of our control. I plan to do my best to change that by becoming more informed about my own taxation. Thanks for an awesome topic.

  16. @faust, I’m with you. I’ve seen what can happen in arbitration settings where it is a privately paid arbitrator rather than a duly appointed judge (I do see corruption in the systems that elect judges). I also see value in some basic services like police, fire department, and a legacy of public lands.

    I can’t understand where some folks won’t take a moment to recognize that others have sacrificed for the lives they had, lest they be speaking German (or the queen’s english).

    Nevertheless, we are coming upon a time when it’s clear the size of government has exceeded the ability to provide the services that provide a return on the taxpayer’s dollar. The interstate highway system, the leasing of public lands to ranchers, foresters, and miners, and the freedoms we all share because somebody was willing to fight all were investments where we’ve all received a better quality of life. I think there are parts of our bloated government that still protect that way of life with simple things like OSHA worksite inspections and infrastructure projects, but what sorely lacks is the accountability when senators tack on pork projects to build new malls (in the name of urban renewal), or bail out banking buddies, or write a healthcare bill that serves the insurance companies and not the common man.

    I’m more than willing to pay taxes to fund a government that provides the basic regulations, peace keeping, and infrastructure, but our elected officials should know their limits and the limits provided by the constitution in their powers. How we get back to a government that governs least, governs best? I don’t know, but I’m not an anarchist either; some form of government needs to exist to hold this union together.

  17. Just a friendly production note: Although the sound quality is markedly improved recently, it still sounds a little tinny and shrill through my speakers. Recommend you turn down the treble and add a just a tad of reverb or echo processing. Cheers.

  18. Go on a general strike for two weeks to show the world what happens to whom when who walks out? Sounds like a Shrugger 🙂