T-Minus 200 Sentinels and Counting — 38 Comments

  1. But wait… I thought the entire silver community was going to boycott anything related to mulligan mint… and that they would never get anywhere with their beyond hopelessly damaged reputation… [/eyeroll]

    • Yea I love when a plan doesn’t come together. Keep your ear to the internet you will soon here a loud pop, it will be Chris Duane’s brain shooting out his eyeballs when you see what we are going to do next. Chris has insulted my honor, so, um the gloves are OFF. No petty bullshit though, we will just do it all with actions.

      Chris claims to own some designs, problem is he screwed over the artist that drew them, never paid him. Dumbass! The karma boot is about to wind up! Guess who did pay the artist and guess who now has 100% ownership of the designs, it ain’t me, but it is the legal partner in the business who Chris screwed over royally.

      Karma is a bitch, get on the bad side of TSP and it is a bigger bitch. This is going to be fun and we are going to keep pushing the silver envelope.

      • Too late. It popped earlier this morning. Emo-man-child is on update #15 (who the hell does 15 updates on something most of us would delete the next day and claim to have been near fatally intoxicated?):

        And has done a youtube promising an epic lawsuit to end Rob once and for all:

        How he intends to gather evidence sufficient to survive the first motion to dismiss is beyond me since he can’t even articulate facts on a blog, but whatever.

      • As much as this guy is coming off as a D-bag, I hate seeing in house bickering. I don’t understand his latest attack on the TSP mint. With zero knowledge of these 2 (Rob and Chris), this seems like an issue between them 2. Why is TSP coins now part of the mix? It’s to bad both sides can’t square this away, this does nothing positive for either camp.

        I heard what you had to say about Rob’s credibility and trust your knowledge of this drama. I can’t lie though, I’ll feel much better once I have those awesome homo-errotic long sword wielding sentinels in my hands……. : )

  2. I’m pretty sure it is part of your page SEO, but your post links back to Episode 51. One of the comments caught my eye:

    Matt Hundley | September 10, 2008 at 1:12 pm |

    Wow. What a timely show Jack, Silver is trading at $10.87 as of this post. Now is a VERY good time to buy.
    Keep up the good work, we are counting on you!

  3. Jack
    You friggin’ rock. Can’t wait to see them in the “flesh”!

  4. +15, count is 4,918…82 to go, still didn’t get a receipt? But the system has them listed in my account.

    • Those recipes are auto generated emails. Either spam folder, or server melt down. Just screen shot the account order page and viola – your receipt.

      • Yea, that’s exactly what I have been doing, I am not worried about it as long as the system has my order all is good.

  5. And we made it. Congrats and many thanks to Jack and everyone that purchased coins.

    • Nope all orders by sunday midnight get one it is now a free for all go make robs copper press scream

  6. I hope this all works out smoothly.

    Chris comes off as the butthead but in my experience sometimes those who look the most charming are just that….
    to be more specific, does it legally matter if Chris Duane has not yet paid an artist? If he has a copyright, that doesn’t disappear without a legal change in copyright.
    Whether he is ethically completely right is one thing….. but I just wonder if it was time for more deep breaths and sorting out legal matters.

    Well, I do hope there is a resolution that can allow all to go forward. I am looking forward to the coins, not the conflict. All of us should be on the same page.

    • To be honest whatever legal stuff that will happen will expose him one way or the other. These types of legal disputes have probably the most case precedent of them all. He either owns the stuff, or he doesn’t. My bet, is he doesn’t. Why? I don’t think a business would continue with designs if they thought otherwise.

    • The artist is the creator, if the artist isn’t paid for the artists images the artist is the owner of said images. Again, Chris is just an adult child that can’t stand to not get his way. Additionally a partnership doesn’t work the way many seem to think. If you and I go into business as partners and you don’t like the way things are running you don’t just get to take whatever your claims as your own and pack your shit and leave. Specifically after based on said partnership I invested say oh, half a million dollars and all you did was get paid on your part of the profit all along the way.

      Take a few deep breaths? Hell yea, great idea, go tell the man child to to do just that, think, use his brain and come back to the negotiation table in good faith.

      As for all to go forward? First, Chris is a speed bump I crossed weeks ago, he has nothing he can do to impede my progress. Nothing, this isn’t my fight, unfortunately for him he continues to make me part of this. Additionally I have the same type of partnership with Rob, and well, I actually understand partnerships have both benefits and RESPONSIBILITIES, something I have enough honor to fulfill.

      So I am going forward, Rob is going forward and Chris, is, well still basically kicking, crying, crapping his pants and holding his breath. He isn’t going to “go forward” at least in the realm of minting silver coins. This may be hard to grasp but no mint on the planet will work with him after what he has done, it ain’t going to happen. Who the hell wants a partner who made a complete public spectacle of himself this way, throws everyone he can under a bus and expects to just get 100% of his way? Let me answer that for you, no one with enough business sense and money to run a mint.

      His only option at this point is

      1. Come up with new designs and pay the fricken artist this time, you know like I paid the photographer who took the photo of the ant we used in our design

      2. Pay for plasters to be sculpted, this is pretty expensive and Rob always pays for it with his partners.

      3. Pay for dies to be cut based on the plasters, also expensive and also done by Rob.

      4. Buy a minimum of 1000 ounce of silver blanks per run and hold the inventory at serious risk to the inventory based on silvers fluctuations.

      5. Pay a mint a minting fee of about 3-5 dollars a coin, he will now have about 5 dollars over spot into every coin IF silver hasn’t gone down during the minimum of 3 weeks he was sitting on the inventory with his money fully tied up. If silver drops a buck or two he is into them now for 6-7 dollars each.

      6. Do his own shipping and order management and sell silver at 7 dollars over spot to make perhaps 2 dollars an ounce at best IF he can sell them at 7 dollars or more over spot.

      Working with Rob is amazing and the man child doesn’t have a f’ing clue, I think he is beginning to get one though. See I was asked to bring out TSP Silver long ago, that is why I know what the conventional route is. That route sucks ass! You can loose your ass in a New York minute with it.

      With Rob I sell silver at 1.99-2.99 over spot when it averages out we both make about 1 dollar an ounce in the end. For him to make his dollar he has to run an entire mint, do the shipping, pay for the design work, cut the plasters, cut the dies, take all the financial risk. What do I do? Collaborate on the design (meaning it is co-owned) neither I no Chris are artists we can’t do it on our own. When two people work on something together, it is coowned unless other wise agreed, man that is legal 101. After that I market it and refer people to it and well by the way so does the mint. The mint provides me with tons of marketing collateral, manages the site, pays for the SSL certificates, handles the payments, does the shipping. I pay nothing for all of that, I just get my part of the profit. This deal is so good twice I asked Rob if I was taking too big of a piece of the pie, he simply smiled and said no, this is a great deal for both of us.

      Do you know who other then Rob Gray will give you that deal? NO ONE ON PLANET EARTH. Chris flatly is a complete fool to think he is the one getting screwed here.

      • Right. Obviously I personally don’t know the internals, but I can’t see how Chris is really standing on any ground whatsoever. Its about as whiny as it comes. And now he is basically calling Rob a socio/pyschopath and all sorts of other nonsense.

        If you invest in a business, you generally can’t just pull out your investments, particularly if that wasn’t agreed upon. Everything Chris says reeks of nonsense, because there is no way that he entered in an agreement/partnership with Rob where the terms and rules were “I can take everything I want, whenever I want without notice, and must be immediately given to me.”

        • Oh and one more thing. He is talking about the “silver community” and saying “they’re watching.” Go fuck yourself Chris. You don’t speak for me, or anybody else. Whatever “silver community” you speak about must be about as tenth grade as it gets. No, I’m not waiting to see the outcome of this for any reason. While I like Rob Gray, and highly support his efforts, as long as he provides me the product, as agreed, then I’ll purchase from him.

          I don’t buy silver because I’m part of some ridiculous community, I buy it as a historically recognized hedge against central bank nonsense. I am starting to think Chris Duane, either is, or is turning into the socio/pyschopath that he claims everyone else is. This guy has (or has developed) a messiah like complex.

        • I couldn’t agree more with you. As I’ve stated elsewhere: “…this is more than unsettling and worrying, especially coming from someone who claims to be able to identify psychopaths and toxic people.”

        • @Paul
          Is this one of those “takes one to know one” kinda deals?

        • @The New Mike I guess so. I mean, we all make mistakes at some stage or another, that much is normal. However, what can be a telltale sign of a troubled mind, is when one refuses to admit that one has made a mistake. Maybe even more important, when one refuses to make peace or compromise to some extent, especially when it can turn into a win-win situation for all parties involved. Of course there are certain instances where it will be outright wrong to compromise, but I mean, why pull the ass out of the chicken if one can save the day by making peace with a personal enemy, especially if it will benefit decent people? I personally believe all of us have it in us to be socio/psychopaths, but of course we’ve got a choice to embrace light or darkness. I choose the former, but of course it remains a challenge. I am not perfect yet. 🙂

      • Jack, I’m sorry you are getting put in a position where you have to explain/defend the business end. I own a small corporation and agree the markup on these products is minimal.

        In “moving forward” I was really just referring to going on with the business, and not letting anyone suck you into the verbal/typewritten banter that ultimately makes everyone look bad. Having this brought out into the public was bad not only for Chris and Rob but now has added you and how many others?

        Even if he had been “right” about any of the issues, the public tantrum was not helpful. When I have problems with a vendor, the clients don’t need or want to hear every detail. They need to hear that I am looking out for them, and will change vendors if necessary. Chris instead tried to force the customer to direct their anger elsewhere; in other words he didn’t want to handle his part of the responsibility. That’s not good business even if it really is someone else’s fault, know what I mean?

        Whatever the legal finality, you don’t have to defend yourself in my opinion. There are two aspects of how this concludes. In the legal arena, none of the blogging or none of our opinions make any difference. And in the issue of customer perception, the person who speaks honestly without throwing others under the bus will win the day.

        When he starts insulting something as subjective as coin design, let him dig his own holes.

  7. So with all the dumbassery of Yahoo I find this interesting.
    If you are logged on you can see you have new emails from the yahoo main page (not inside email.) I hover over it and it shows you like the top 5 or so new emails in the inbox. When I hover over it I see the latest TSP update regarding the coins. I go to my inbox… its not there. Nowhere in there. So i go back to the main page, and click the email (which is still showing) when it tries to go to it, it doesn’t work.

    I’m basically left with, Yahoo is a piece of shit email provider.

    • Yahoo is not just a POS, but the POS of email. They are also the only major provider that doesn’t allow free forwarding. If they did, nobody would still have an account with them.

  8. Jack, you guys rock! It is just a pity that you don’t accept international orders yet. I would have loved to buy a couple of Sentinels. This being said, I went to my local coin dealer today and he sold me Constitutional silver at $18.40 per troy ounce. This is only because I’ve built up a solid business relationship with him. This shows the importance of having healthy relationships, because then the one hands truly washes the other.

  9. This Chris guy is choice… he starts off his rant against the “Sentinel” by saying this….
    “The latest attempt is based off of the homo erotic, violent movie 300.” WHAT THE ACTUAL F***? It is based off the HISTORICAL Battle of Thermopylae. Also what the hell would it matter if it was homoerotic? The rant of this guy reminds me of the guys that put up websites that you have to scroll for like 10 pages to tell you about their product that will change your lightbulbs and make you dinner while never having to pay for electricity ever again… this guy is a shyster period, this rant proves his lunacy. And how many times does this guy have to mention he was a Marine… no offense to anyone but Just because you were a Marine doesn’t mean your poop don’t stink, Marines CAN be A-Holes too.

  10. This blog reeks of a salem witch trial. Everyone here seems convinced that Chris is in the Wrong and Rob is some Kind of Angel. I don’t know who is right or wrong in this dispute but that is why we have courts of law. Here are a few observations that are worth considering. If Rob has any of the creative impetus behind this endeavor why is he still using Duane’s videos/writings to promote the freedom girl and slave queen coins? If they were equal parties Rob has a commitment to follow through on his original agreements-such as only running the Slave Queen and Freedom girl coins for a limited run, which has already expired. What about the people who purchased with the idea of it being a limited edition, doesn’t his commitment to them count? Lastly if as according to Rob and Jack, Duane’s part was marketing and Rob’s was fulfilling orders orders, quality control and customer service then it seems like Rob’s part is the part that has been lacking. The amount of orders brought to the table that Duane’s efforts was second to none in the record of the Mulligan mint. I just called today and was told that the sentinels I just ordered were on a four week hold plus 10 day hold on the check not the fastest turn around in the industry as Rob stated in his previous video. The name calling seems a little immature on all sides but I just wanted to give a different perspective. Honestly I would be surprised if this comment showed up on your blog as the comments seem to be pretty one sided but I felt it needed to be said. Cheers

    • The ignorance you show here of your understanding of a legal partnership is beyond words! It isn’t that simple. Rob provided the artists that made the designs what they are, he provided the sculpter that cut the sculpts and the die cutter that turned the sculpts into dies. He invested over a quarter million of additional investment to handle the business Chris committed to. Anyone that thinks you can just take your shit and leave in the MIDDLE of a deal like that has a business and legal IQ of about 13.

  11. Well I was proven wrong, the comment showed up immediately, good for you and your listeners

    • Calling someone ignorant is not an answer to any of my points but when you don’t have a valid argument to stand on. I guess personal attacks are your method. I never claimed to be a lawyer and obviously you aren’t either. So you are trying to say that The Freedom girl artist Heidi was brought to Chris Duane through Rob? Just because you state it is so doesn’t make it so. In the words of John Adams, “Facts are stubborn things” so personal you attacking my character W/O addressing my points just proves the weakness of you argument.

    • @magerlee –
      I wouldn’t take any of this personally. You’re walking into a conversation that’s pretty much already over. If you read through the many many comments, and listen to the portions of several podcasts addressing the situation, I think you’ll understand the curtness.

      The issue is, when you’re a busy person, you get tired of explaining yourself to ‘the internet’, and at some point stop trying.

      Even taking the time to re-restate your claims/arguments is too much. This horse is dead. Mighty dead. How it got that way is well documented if you’re interested, but I think the involved parties have tired of the rehash.


      • Fair enough, I’ve got better things to do anyway and I have faith in the end the truth will come out , adios