Episode-1314- How Most Americans are Little more than Proud Slaves — 67 Comments

  1. I haven’t listened to this podcast yet, but I can’t wait to hear jack’s views on these subjects. I’ve been thinking a lot about these issues lately.

  2. “I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Plutocracy to which I kneel, one Nation under tyranny and class warfair, with slavery and subjection of the sheeple.”

    Not so funny if you think about it.


  3. It’s now 1.17am here in France, I just had to stay up and listen to this one, my 17 year old son heard you ranting about slavery and taxes, turned of his xbox and came and listened with me. This episode has just confirmed to him what I have been telling him for years, nice one Jack, it was worth losing some sleep to hear this episode tonight.


  4. Great show, Jack! Love the way you lay it out. Hearkens back to the car rant days!

  5. Goodness, Libertarians are morons. You see the problem clearly but want to double down on the madness that is its underlying cause and force.

    Individualism (Liberalism) has given us the gargantuan state/corporatocracy. Turning individualism into a fundamentalist religion makes you the most useful of idiots, not a savior.

    • It sounds to me like you have NO IDEA what a libertarian is, zero, none, absolutely no idea in God’s green earth what a libertarian is.

      Now you seem like you know at least to a degree what liberalism is but again no idea what a libertarian is. It sounds like you are so confused you actually think libertarian means liberal. The liber in liberal doesn’t stand for the same thing that the liber in libertarian does. The root of libertarian is LIBERTY, not progressive socialism. And if you equate force in anyway at all with libertarian principles, wow, just wow. Not to mention linking individualism with liberalism? Hell liberalism is collectivism which it sounds like you think is the solution. Like many on the right, you sound like you are for big government just one that enforces the rules you like, vs. what the other side wants forced on others.

      I mean really your comment makes it sound as if someone gave you a broken dictionary back in grade school and you are still using it. You just told me the sky is orange and I am wrong for calling it blue.

    • Hardly Jack. I know fully well both what Libertarians think they are (upholders and defenders of Liberty and a freeman order) and what they actually are (fundamentalists of the individualism that is THE necessary condition for the concentration of wealth and, especially, power).

      Liberals started us on this slide to plutocracy with their rebellion against the ancient strictures against avarice and profligacy and their rejection of social solidarity and obligation. Under their reign there is just power and the never-satisfied maw of desire. Destroying or weakening the old social bonds (Church, clan, guild, village commons, family, etc.) left only the state. The destruction or subjugation of all these competing intermediary institutions, leaving only the individual and the State, is what has made the creation of the statist/corporatist beast we are all slaves to today possible. As Alexis deTocqueville so keenly observed when surveying the new United States:

      “In centuries of equality no one is obliged to lend his force to those like him and no one has the right to expect great support from those like him, each is at once independent and weak. These two states, which must neither be viewed as separate nor confused, give the citizen of democracies very contrary instincts. His independence fills him with confidence and pride among his equals, and his debility makes him feel, from time to time, in need of the outside help that he cannot expect from any of them, since they are all impotent and cold. In this extremity, he naturally turns his regard to the immense being that rises alone in the midst of universal debasement. His needs and above all his desires constantly lead him back toward it, and in the end he views it as the unique and necessary support for his individual weakness.”

      So let me say again: The same individualism that Libertarians have turned into something like a religious fundamentalism is, in fact–and, oh, irony of irony–the very thing that makes possible the State and economic order they hate so much. Individualism is not the cure to our slavishness! It is its cause!

      Humans are social creatures and some type of governing order is going to emerge from our social interactions. Libertarians are utterly and wholly naive in their rants against “government,” as though it were possible to live without it. You may as well rant against the need to shit. We’ll govern ourselves (collectively and personally) well or we’ll be governed badly as slaves. So long as we are blinded by the ideology of individualism and deny social solidarity it can only be the latter.

      • Well you just proved you don’t have any clue what libertarianism is.

        • It’s you, sir, who has no clue. But that’s par for the course for ideologues. They have their Idea and Reality be damned.

      • In general the problems you present (devolution of social structures) to a lack of humility, and perhaps a culture based on that.

        I do think you’re taking the individualism thing to the extreme however. It’s in the same realm of the typical trite arguments make against Ayn Rand’s philosophy of selfishism. You can be an individual in a community and as a group. But it’s also about knowing your place. (in the small and grand scheme of things). That’s why I’d say its a lack of humility.

        Many people do cast away traditions and social conventions purely for the sake of claiming its “illogical” to follow them. (As an astute studier of philosophy I would say that there quite a bit of illogical arguments made, and hyperbolic to the extreme arguments made regarding “tradition isn’t logical”). I believe we do live in a culture obsessed with ignoring what we want to ignore (things that might be grim and real) and in their place replace them with fantasies. (An example comes to mind of a permaculturists who thinks nothing but gaias garden, but fails to realize the necessary means to put them into place, and the not so pretty picture of things not going to plan). My two go-to examples are Afghanistan and Japan (my personal experiences). Life / morality isn’t always so simple, and picking the “right path” isn’t so set in stone.

        So, again I’ll leave it with humility.

        • Yeah, but what you’re describing is not individualISM (or compatible with Rand’s philosophy). You’re describing a person, not an individual. It’s all the difference in the world.

      • Show me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE in history where wealth and power were concentrated without the assistance of government.

        In fact, what is concentrated “wealth” and power PLUS the monopoly on the initiation of force? Answer: Government.

        I love how everyone says we need a government to prevent the collection of power and to prevent people using guns against us, when that’s EXACTLY what government is.

        • Beautiful!

          Let me add name the top 20 mass murders of all time and tell me one on the list who was able to make the list without using government to do it.

        • I can be silly, too: Show me ONE SINGLE INSTANCE in history where liberty was successfully defended and wide-spread prosperity was sustained in the long term without mutual cooperation and submission to multiple layers of communal order (i.e. without government). When Jack laughs at the foolishness of the lone-wolf survivalist he’s saying the exact same thing as me.

          The way you and many Libertarians use the word “government” is meaningless and deeply naive. “Government” is not the State. The modern State is a (fundamentally oppressive and evil) form of government, absolutely, but it is only one form. Government is unavoidable and really just means ‘the way humans live together.’ If you’re not willing to submit to a cooperative social order and govern yourself and your community well (yes, this is the claimed goal of saner Libertarians but this is GOVERNMENT that they’re talking about) then someone will organize around you and impose an order upon you. To sum up my earlier argument: the individualism at the heart of Libertarian ideology works against this mutual submission and cooperation that are necessary to a well-governed order and the resistance to the modern State. It leaves us all, as this episode argued, slaves: either too weak to really be free or too scared and helpless to even imagine life without the State.

        • Social order doesn’t equal government. Social order can be with voluntary association. As for one instance, tribalism did it for thousands of years. In fact only when tribes became nations did death and destruction result. That said, I have a modern one for you since you would crap on tribalism and since you would crap on medieval Iceland which is another example.

          That would be Siberia, as many were exiled under Stalin not all went to gulags many were just dropped off and left for dead, with no central authority those who survived the first few years formed many quite successful communities. They didn’t have anything approaching a “government” but they did have a community structure.

          By the way this type of thing you are arguing isn’t libertarianism, it is anarchism. Don’t worry I didn’t think anarchism could work at one time either, so there is hope for all of us.

      • Well Phil you seem to find heavy chains fashionable or maybe it’s the GMO foods that you’ve been eating… You have to be trolling, there is no way in hell you are this stupid.

        • I really can’t imagine how you would read what I’ve written and conclude I think there is any good in the current order, that I like my chains. It’s obvious that I don’t. My contention is that while Libertarians see the problem and usually have good ideas as far as policy, they are as naive and wrong about the underlying causes of our problems as are the freaking hippies (who also see the problem). The ideology is silly and actually reinforces the power of the State.

  6. I can’t wait to hear it. Jack your are the smartest person I know because you have an unbelievable insight into many subjects and a lot of common sense. I have learned so much from you. Thank you.

  7. Thank you! You are exactly 100% dead on. I just need to continue to whisper, show, and occasionally shout it from a roof top, as I continue to learn how to walk the walk.

  8. I loved this episode.

    I think my wife “woke up” about 2 weeks ago. She watched a show that talked about the vulnerabilities of the grid. She said before that she though I was just looking for excuses to buy toys. She’s now a solid prepper.

    I want to get her on board with TSP. This episode could be a good start for her but it might be a little rough. Does anyone have any advice on episodes I can start her out with?


    • Look at the top of the page go to the Welcome tab. Look at shows for New Listeners. Also, I think show #1139 Women in prepping is good and #1214 Life After Awakening is good too.

  9. Jack, just finished “Meet John Doe” by Frank Capra, as I listened to you and the movie, surprisingly how back then we already knew where we were heading and the solution remains as it did then, and as you said as well, back to the beginning!

  10. Great episode today Jack, resinated deeply. A lot of good ammo for discussing these issues with those who are still asleep..

  11. Quite a show!

    This one takes me back to my first awakenings as the “last baby-boomer/hippie” who once actually believed passive solar architecture and life off the grid would save the planet – all back in 1984 (yes, some of us were aware of that Orwell prophecy slowly coming true, even then).

    I lost a lot of that vision through a strange twist of life’s left turns and tragedies, but a long time later, later after seeing my daughter through our family divorce years, Mike Ruppert’s astute and courageous analysis back in 2002 shattered the newsroom veneer, revealing just how wrong government was going, and led me to re-discover my disdain for slavery and my awareness that it was no joke. He began pointing the way off the grid, transitioning slowly but surely, away from politics to practical solutions.

    And now I have discovered – in a way, rediscovered – permaculture. Jack has worked hard to point us to these solutions, such that now I feel I am finally back to going where I was instinctively headed all along. For me personally, this show has turned the lights back on.

    So very glad to see this happening on this scale, Jack.

    There really are solutions here, and while these are not necessarily what we were brought up to expect, they nevertheless constitute a quiet and powerful trend to living life with understanding instead of fear, and gives me hope not just for this nation, but potentially for all the rest of mankind.

    And you’re right. Permaculture is more than a solution to cultivating an outdoor area. It is a way of thinking that applies to all life.

  12. As a younger stroke survivor (had my career-ending stress-related stroke at 34, I’m currently 53..crap, I’m old!), I spent many years re-learning how to care for myself. From the mundane day-to-day skills to the more esoteric life skills, it was all new to me, again. It was a joy being old enough to have some control over the lessons I re-learned, rather than being Pablum-fed the lessons whoever controlled me decided I needed to learn/chose to teach me. Like going back in time to high school at 40…wait, somebody already made a movie about that. (PeggySue Got Married, fun flick.) You are so right, Jack. Having a large cushy cage with few restrictions isn’t the same as being FREE. Personally, Give me liberty or give me death. And since I’ve died once–okay, so its not buckets of fun but its not that bad–I choose the Liberty.

  13. Uncharacteristically of Jack – he just talked over an hour about 6 problems and didn’t mention a single solution — and we all know if there were any, he would have raised them. In fact, he candy-coated the problems – IMO – regarding the worst of all enslaving conditions: DEBT.

    Jack mentioned that the US gov is $17 Trillion in debt; almost $17.5 T to be exact. Sadly, that’s a drop in the bucket. First of all that figure represents JUST the amount that is due TODAY by our Fed Gov. If you add the amounts that are DUE TODAY by our state governments, our local and city governments, our businesses, and individual family debt — that figure isn’t $17.5T, its 3x greater or $60.9 Trillion.

    BUT, if you also include the long term debt – the debt we all owe today AND are obligated to pay within this generation – or the UNFUNDED LIABILITIES (like Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Prescription Drugs, etc.) – that figure is a whopping $128.160T. To ignore this debt would be like calculating your personal debt as “what you owe THIS month” and ignoring the 30-year home mortgage you are on the hook for. The only difference is: your home probably has asset value, whereas our nation’s Unfunded Liabilities have ZERO asset value. So it’s more like an ignoring a 30-year student loan.

    So now let’s add that number to our immediate debt of $60.9T for a total of $189 Trillion. Now – if every US citizen paid their share – we would each owe $595,307. (I don’t have $600 Thousand laying around – how about you?) But that’s still not accurate – you wouldn’t expect children or retired citizens to pay $600 Thousand – who you?

    So if every “WORKING US Citizen” paid their share – we would each owe $1,299,143. (Let me check, I think I have a million or so stuffed in my mattress.) But wait, 49% of all working Americans pay ZERO federal income tax. They are exempted by our so very generous IRS tax code. They may pay in with each paycheck, but they get it all back after deductions and exemptions. So it is likely this National Debt of $189 Trillion will fall to the responsibility of only 51% of hardworking Americans. NOW we EACH owe $2,547,399 !!!

    It will never happen! Even if the debt stopped growing today, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY we can payoff this debt. But it’s not stopping. It is actually growing faster than it ever has before in this country’s history. Even though our population is growing more slowly than it ever has. (FYI – this doesn’t even include the atrocity we call Obamacare; and that might be big … it might be “1/7 our economy BIG”).

    But here’s the Catch 22 — Our government has only ONE way of collecting revenue to (legitimately) pay down this debt: TAXES !! And after the shackles of DEBT, the next most enslaving of Jack’s conditions are the shackles of TAXES.

    Ironically – the more successful we are at throwing-off the shackles of TAXES – the ominous and critical the shackles of DEBT become. Is it any wonder that Jack talked only of problems … and NO solutions ??

  14. In my last post, I mentioned the concept of “Legitimately” paying down this nation’s debt. I indicated that Taxes were the only legitimate source of revenue our government has. This was intentionally meant to make a distinction between Tax Revenue and Borrowing More Money – i.e. accumulating MORE DEBT.

    I suspect by now that all of Jack’s listeners are aware that Tax Revenues are insufficient to cover even the miniscule “immediate debt” of $17.5T. In fact, of that debt – only 57% of it is covered by tax revenue. The rest is borrowed. Let me repeat:

    43% of EVERY dollar spent by the US government is BORROWED.

    Listen, Jack was right when he identified Debt as a major shackle of American Slavery. But I believe that was a huge understatement. Imagine if you ran your household budget this way: at the end of the month you’ve paid every bill your current paycheck allowed for. But you still owe your creditors 43% of your total monthly nut. That’s almost HALF of what you owe – you were unable to pay. SO you do the unthinkable … you pay the remaining 43% of your total monthly expenses by putting them on your credit card.

    We all know what will happen by the end of next month, right? I’ll not belabor this point – your problems just COMPOUNDED! That’s the way our fed gov is dealing with short term debt; they continue to borrow almost half of what they owe. AT INTEREST . . . but from whom ??

    The number TWO source of US credit is from the CHINESE! Are you kidding me? Is DEBT – in and of itself – not a sufficient shackle of slavery? We need to willingly and intentionally prostrate ourselves before our arch enemy? We literally BEG to become the “Debt-Bitch” of the evil Asian empire. This is common knowledge … and yet nobody says anything … and no media covers it … we all just shoot-up our Debt-Addicted veins yet one more time.

    And that’s the #2 source! How about #1. How about the Federal Reserve? I don’t recall Jack mentioning the FR. Though he talked about Inflation, I don’t recall him talking about “Quantitative Easing”. He talked about the evils of our governmental systems (suggesting that individuals in our government are above reproach) but I don’t recall him fingering the Fed Res.

    Against all advice from our founding fathers, we have empowered the Fed Res to “Print our own … our US Currency”. In any other context, this would be considered “counterfeit” and “illegal”. Listen: the illegal printing of counterfeit US currencies is REALLY bad. It devalues the dollar, weakens our economy, and discredits the credibility of every US debt, IOU, or promissory note. We make it illegal for every entity in the world to counterfeit the saw-buck — BUT we encourage, endorse and embrace the Fed Res when they do the exact same thing. Are we insane??

    Jack thought that our gov system is the cause of all slavery — NOT the individual politicians working within the system. REALLY ?? 435 members of our HR had the opportunity to (simply) AUDIT the FED. They voted it down!! Ron Paul’s initial efforts were NOT to shut down the Fed, just to monitor … audit … be aware of how the trillions of printed US dollars were being used. His bill failed. The Fed Res has such unimaginable power, they were able to control over 250 elected congressmen and convince them that an audit of the Fed was bad.

    A record of where TRILLIONS of US dollars are being spent, invested, even given away – is NOT important? Who are they fucking kidding? Ron Paul’s bill did not seek to limit or restrict the Fed Res – only to monitor and understand where and how the hard earned dollars and future debt was being allocated. And over 250 House Representative voted it DOWN. Please, Jack, do not pretend the politicians are innocent victims of our corrupt governmental system. THEY ARE THE CORRUPTION !! They ARE the Masters to OUR slavery. Everything that is wrong with our “DEBT” shackles – with our “TAX” shackles – with “CLASS” shackles – with “RACIAL BIAS” shackles – and the “Peddling of FEAR” . . . they are the “system” and the “individuals” we refer to as our government. We are talking about 535 elected officials that are anything BUT esteemed colleagues of a respectable institution. We are talking about the most corrupt slave masters in history of mankind.

    I would focus less on the subjective nature of an “Exceptional Nation’ – and more on the corruption that is Washington … that is our government … that is our very flawed system of electing representatives and governing for the FUTURE of America.

  15. “If you didn’t hear any solutions, flatly, go listen again.” — Jack Spirko

    Jack, I will. Right now I have to go to work – but I’ll be back with an apology if warranted.

    — Maddog

  16. … it just occurred to me that – of all the crap I just posted – your single take away was my expression of concern that we have lots of problems and few solutions.

    Did you read the rest of my post? And you have nothing to add or contest relative to our nation’s behemoth debt? Really?

    • No I have nothing to add or contest about the nation’s debt because as I have said before,


      it is never going to happen the entire financial system will shift, it will require a reboot, humanity is going to shift one hundred ways from Sunday in the next few decades.

      The fact is this cycle of phony wealth is about at its end. Understanding our debt and its slavery is one thing, to think that paying it off, reducing it, controlling it, etc is either possible or wise is another.

      The solution to debt based slavery, start working on the rebuilding before the collapse this time around and don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it being paid off, or getting bigger, just worry about what happens when the psychological contract is broken and be prepared in advance.

    • Quite honestly, none of it really matters. The debt is the debt. Nothing you or I could do as individuals or even as a group will affect it. You can vote to your heart’s content, and be eternally frustrated and angry with the result. The tea party isn’t going to help. They’ve been mostly co-opted and corrupted by the establishment and/or religious right. The Libertarians want to do the right thing, but are continuously marginalized and extremist right-wingers by the media/left, or drug loving isolationist kooks by the right.

      It comes down to only having control of yourself. Do what you can to get others on board or woken up, but it starts with you. Every one of us needs to lead by example. Stop being afraid of what the neighbors think. Stop being afraid of what your boss will do. Stop being afraid of what the other slaves and their masters are creating or destroying, and just live your life how YOU see fit. They can take your life, they can put you in a cage, they can bury the country in a mountain of regulation and debt, but they cannot control your thoughts and actions unless you let them. Some of the most free people in this world have spent their lives in prisons. That is often the cost of refusing to put on your own shackles. So be it. Sometimes that the only way to awaken the masses.

  17. Jack this episode could not come at a better time for us. I grew up dirty poor in the ghetto. Many nights we went to bed so hungry that we would dry heave because there was just nothing to eat. My mother refused to apply for welfare because she didn’t want to have the government anymore involved in our lives than they already had to be. She did only freelance cash work or worked at only minimum wage jobs never filing tax returns.
    Being young and not understanding why she wouldn’t join the system and develop a careeri decided that I was going to do things differently. I created a life that was the American dream. We worked hard at our jobs. We built the dream we had 4 kids and bought or house and all was well. We lived for the weekends and vacations which we never really took.
    A little over 5 years ago our oldest daughter passed away. She was diagnosed with AML in Feb. 2008 and by the time she passed away in Sept. of the same year we lost everything despite our really good insurance and savings equal to 6 months worth of bills. At that time we realizedwe were sold a bill of goods. Doing things the way the people who were supposed to know reccomended in the end amounted to exactly zero for us. Because we both worked in consconstruction we were layed off. The bank took the house and we had to start over while simultaneously living with the worst grief imaginable. I decided not to go back to work and my husband was finally able to land the best job he had ever had making the most money he ever made. But we knew the error of our path and set out to learn new ways to build a life. One that didn’t follow the “experts” recommendations because we understood that, that was indeed slavery.
    This week my husband puts in his notice at work and even tho we had prepared for this moment we were scared. Could we really build a life that didn’t include a paycheck from somewhere else. I was 2nd guessing our plans. Asking myself am I crazy? Have I really gone over the edge. After listening to you show I am reassured that it may be scary but life as a slave is not for me. I ain’t getting no younger so if I’m gonna take a stand I might as well do it now! Today!
    So Thank you for the words of encouragement. They really could not have come at a better time!

  18. OK.. reading some of these comments has caused me to break my (self-imposed) commenting ban. 😉

    The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one’s real and one’s declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms..
    – George Orwell

    Cheer slaves!

  19. As Americans our slavery begins at birth. Our chains our our social security numbers. Public education is the indoctrination process. It’s keeps us from truly knowing our own mind.

    My question is. If we are slaves. Then what does that make those who serve in the armed forces? Why are they helping the corporatist tighten the noose? Sorry, I know it’s a tough hard question. But if we are being honest. I think it needs to be asked.

  20. Sounds like you have taken the next logical step from libertarian to volunteerism. Good for you Jack.

  21. Not much on gays breaking down the family structure?
    What are your thoughts on N.A.M.B.L.A.?

    Take Care

    • @John my thoughts on this group is as follows. When bigitos have zero argument left about the large group of people they oppress they turn to the tiny segment of scum that exist in any group to justify the oppression of the entire group.

      So when bigots run out of reasons to deny basic equality to gays they turn to N.A.M.B.L.A. which is a group for perverted idiots who think it is okay for grown adults to have sex with young children. Now look I don’t really care that these idiots are gay, I would say they would be equally f’d up if they were the N.A.M.G.L.A. A perverted 30 year old molesting a 10 year old is just as deserving of a dirt nap regardless of whether the child is male of female.

      See people move on to groups like this when NO LOGICAL ARGUMENT REMAINS and try to bash an entire group for the actions of a very small minority. Hell quite a few Catholic priests molested young men, should we oppress the rights of all Catholic priests? Do we hold the entire priesthood accountable for a few members of their ranks?

      I mean seriously if you polled 100 gay adults living their lives at random odds are all would tell you they think people like those in N.A.M.B.L.A. belong in a mental ward or a prison cell. Should we consider all Christians to be equal to those freaks that protest the funerals of fallen soldiers and scream that the fallen are burning in hell for their sins into the faces of their grieving parents?

      What do I think of N.A.M.B.L.A.? They are a group of perverts that should be treated as such. What do I think of people that use N.A.M.B.L.A. as an argument against gays? They are bigoted individuals acting on fear that have run out of any logical argument and they simply can’t let go of their bigotry yet.

      I mean I don’t get it, gays don’t want us to endorse what they do, they just want us to leave them be to their own lives and not make any law that applies to them that doesn’t apply equally to us.

      Again, if the state were not involved in the marriage contract, this wouldn’t even be an argument.

    • “I mean I don’t get it, gays don’t want us to endorse what they do, they just want us to leave them be to their own lives and not make any law that applies to them that doesn’t apply equally to us.”

      It seems like the left does want to endorse certain things. If you don’t agree with their view then you are homophobic or a hateful person. This is equated with racism and the left believes it should be stamped out. Once gay marriage is established then they will find another issue to push. Certain aspects of gay lifestyles and people who have experimented with all that and turned their backs on it are pretty much not heard from and will never be because that is not part of the agenda. Certainly there are violent acts committed against gays, but the left uses the same logic which you are arguing against which is anyone who doesn’t accept that the gay lifestyle is a healthy thing is a hateful person.

      I also believe there are many people who try to act politically correct and say that there is nothing wrong with being gay, but in reality they don’t feel comfortable with it. It’s like my sister said something like “what are you gay or something yourself ?” (because we where arguing about something) .. and then I’ll say something like: “in reality you don’t like gays do you, you just put up a political front when secretly you despise the whole thing ? I can tell “. Some people, when it was mentioned that their father at one time experimented with being bisexual, then they will say that they don’t want to talk about it. In fact that man experimented with it and he put it away, didn’t feel right about it I guess. There are many cases like that, it’s not always like either your gay or your not which is the frame of reference that plays into what the left is selling. If you where gay and you try to give it up, they will say you are suppressing who you really are because that is what they believe or want to believe.

      The people on the left just like to make issues about it because they like to have reasons to attack people on the right. That makes them feel good to have some issue with other people so they can make fun of them. This seems like a sacred cow issue with alot of libertarians as well. You can mention all kinds of things about wars, people starving, banker rip offs, they will say nothing but as soon as you touch on the gay issue that will really set them off and the moderator will practically have to shut down the forum thread. I think the left would like to have it so that if they can identify you as someone who doesn’t support the gay agenda then you won’t be able to get a job.

      • As long as you stay in the left-right paradigm you are frankly F’d! You will never see the truth in things like this because it is designed to keep you fighting with those you think are your enemy while your real enemies F you in the A from behind and blame someone else for it.

        The entire concept of left and right is moronic at this point. It isn’t worth considering, it is nothing but a fear tactic used to divide a people so their rulers can use them as human cattle.

  22. most of these things mentioned can exist in one form or another with or without government that is roughly the same thing

    Exceptionalism Ideology – people can be proud or think they are great in many numerous ways. The football team of a local high school exibits a kind of nationalism by identyfying with their team or the same way a fan of the steelers, the dolphins or whomever identifies with their team, or it could be their company, their group, and even other countries besides the united states, they identify with their country, race, ethnic group, generation etc. This can happen to the extent where they seem at odds or in conflict with other groups

    Debt – you can owe money to a neighbor, a relative, a bank, corporation, etc. Those entities can exert a kind of power over you because of that or if they chose to.

    Taxes – corporations may not impose taxes, but they can control either how much you pay for something which might be artificial in some cases. For instance, I have alot of doubts how the price of gas is really determined. Corporations and heads can also have an influence on how much people make, their salaries or hourly rate. Some people live in states where the taxes are high, but they do better in states where taxes are low because they earn more in their field. For instance taxes are high in Massachussetts, but in Maine where taxes may be lower there is virtually no work in many areas. There is practically no jobs in IT for instance in Maine. People in certain industries can do better in a state that has higher taxes, although if they ever retire suddenly the situation changes one must admit. At any rate, we really want to emphasize the big giant corporations and not the small ones. By the way it seems like the church was corrupt, however I have heard that the templars created the first major banking system of the world.

    Class Structures – In high school ot seemed like class structures or something like it existed. Certain kids hung around together and at times seemed at odds with others, we had rats, jocks, nerds and even subgroups within those.

    Racial Bias – I believe this exists without the help of government even though yes the govt plays on it or even to a great degress.

    And Above All Fear – if geese can exibit fear, it shows that we can have fear without the govt since the geese do not have government ..

    I think exactly what is freedom is an interesting question. Freedom seems to be a state of mind or to have a spiritual dimension. What is freedom seem to be to be free of negative afflictive mental states (anger, worry, discontent, depression, addictions, etc). We may have the idea that freedom is achieved by fulfillment of desires, desire for material wealth or certain sensual gratifications. That seems to be a most powerful force at times. Certainly if freedom is a state of mind, it would seem that some degree of material wealth may help us along in a spiritual path since we have certain basic needs met and are free to pursue the path of spiritual enlightenment .. but there seems to be a school of thought that once spiritual freedom or enlightenment is attained then it can not be taken away. The lord said store up your treasures in heaven where moth and rust do not decay and where thieves can not break in and steal. Interesting that difficulties in life can also help one attain wisdom. Victor Frankle was in a concentration camp and yet went on to write an awe inspiring book based on that experience.

    It seems there must be a pillar missing here since 6 is an incomplete number, we need 7 pillars. I would say perhaps the 7th pillar would be a kind of ignorance because there are alot of conspiracies that seem to go on that are hard to fathom or believe. People are so busy that they have no time to look into these things or they are afraid of what others may think rather than what is the truth. There is in fact a power structure above the govt that controls the govt that is like an unelected secret govt. This is not the govt in the libertarian sense. Psalm 2 starts out: “why do the nations conspire”

    A spiritual aspect here also is the idea that it is not that we have to avoid slavery, but who do we serve. It’s like the saying that either you serve the lord or the devil. You did not seem to ask to be born, thus if you did not ask to be born then you had no say in the matter and where not free to make that choice and you thus lack a certain freedom. However once born, you must act based on the laws of karma. You must make choices and expend energy in one way or another. Because you are attached to life, you must act in order to feed yourself generally speaking. Based on this, people will try to blame the lord for all their problems and all the problems of the world, but this seems to lead to a kind of pessimism and also does not acknowledge the lord’s doing for the many good things taken for granted.

  23. I agree with the dirt nap.

    You are doing an excellent job with the podcast.


  24. wow, amazing episode. Well worth a listen or two. I wish I were able to articulate these points as well when arguing with my fellow slaves. Not that I would expect to convert them, but the blank stares when faced with undeniable logic would be well worth it. thanks jack!

  25. Great show overall, Jack, you just lost me a little bit near the end with the comments related to government getting out of the marriage/divorce business. I can see where you propose that the parties in a divorce should just work out terms of the divorce, and in the majority of cases they do without legal intervention. But it seems your proposal as to removing all government involvement leads inevitably to one party or another taking advantage or failing to fulfil their obligations. In a paternity case for example, one cannot just father children without consequence, but there are support obligations there. Even in a tribal model, there are ultimate decisions made by a chief or council. Sure there are many good people out there, but I believe the answer to the corruption of the state is not the abolishing of all law and order, just depending on people’s inherent tendency to do good, but a limited government functioning within the parameters established by the founders in the Constitution. That being said, I enjoyed the show, your points about the slave mentality are right on, and your points are well taken.

    • @Lee, you said,

      “But it seems your proposal as to removing all government involvement leads inevitably to one party or another taking advantage or failing to fulfil their obligations.”

      See this is typical you are defending the state as the only one who can do something. Yet you are defending their ability to do something they are currently doing a shitty job of doing in the first place.

      Trust me if you knew anything about the Divorce Industry you would NEVER MAKE THE ABOVE ARGUMENT. Please do yourself a favor and watch this movie,

      I really have no need to respond to your objection if you would watch that movie because if you do your faith in the state to do what you claim it now does will dissolve into nothing.

      I will say this though, if the state didn’t make people pay “child support” then perhaps women would not go around having unprotected unmarried sex and not see kids as a way to a paycheck? Perhaps men making 30K a year (already near poverty) would not be surviving on about 12K a year after uncle scam pilfers them with taxes and child support that often does little to support the child.

      Perhaps if government didn’t sanction marriage and incentive divorce people that did get married would do it with a contract and such a contract would not be viewed by one party as the other party not trusting them? By the way every marriage should have a prenuptial agreement today. Not because A doesn’t trust B but because A and B should never trust S, with S being the state.

      And seriously again when you discuss anarchy and minarchy (which again has a small state) people always equate it to abolishing law and order when that is the last thing it is. First you think what we have now is law and order, it isn’t. We have open legitimized crime and criminals protected by the illusion of legitimacy and so powerful we must yield to them as victims. Second you are saying only magical politicians can keep people in line.

      You should also watch this video,

      Trust me everything you think government is doing to protect people in marriage relationships isn’t anything approaching a protection at all, in anyway.

  26. This may have been asked already as I have not read all the comments, but you state that even if we are debt free we are still a slave to the debt of the country. Of course that is true, but isn’t that the same as being a debt to taxes? Maybe you should qualify debt as being “personal debt” and then the debt of the country (that of course we ARE slaves to) would just fall under taxes. To me it just makes sense to separate the two. Public debt vs. private debt. As I have no debt, I am not a slave to private debt, but we are of course slaves to public debt…, taxes.

    • Yes it is the same, give a listen because in the words of Tommy Chong, “its the same but different man”. Being a slave to taxes is bad, being a slave to taxes driven by debt is worse.

  27. What is the libertarian view of corporations which I believe allows a kind of limited liability ?

    Do libertarians believe that elimination of taxes or minimalist govt will be achieved ? I certainly can see that govt today is very corrupt. But it is different to say that all governments at all times have been corrupt. Since I am not sure that taxes will be eliminated, I have found it a bit hard to take too seriously other than an interesting academic conversation. If I did, I might be advocating something that will never be realized or perhaps only in part for some amount of time.

    I also find it hard to imagine that if their are greedy and corrupt people in the world, that it would just be an easy thing to prevent them from taking advantage of others.

    How could you prevent people from forming governments ? If a significant majority of people want to form a govt that has non libertarian principles, then either you would have to make that illegal “There shall be no non libertarian govt” – that in itself would be a rule and even if popular vote was against it then to enforce it would be non democratic.

  28. This is late to the party, but I just finally listened to this one and it was good. Actually explaining out loud the LAYERS of taxes is tough to hear. When someone says that everything you do is taxed, it really doesn’t mean anything. Your daily walkthrough does exactly that.

    On a separate, but related note, if you haven’t seen it already. Here is an interesting article about a family in Wyoming fighting for their right to have a pond on their property. The way this guy talks, he just might be a listener to this show.

  29. The basis of “Exceptionalism” has nothing to do with American’s thinking they are somehow “better” than someone else. Jack’s right of course that America’s freedom isn’t particularly exceptional these days, and of course no group of people is perfect and immune to making massive mistakes.

    However, the vast majority of the people of this world since the beginning of time have never known the kind of liberty and freedom that’s taken for granted every day in this country. Most people have lived in abject fear of whoever held power over them, and sadly we are charging in that direction.

    The history of the world is dictatorship, tyranny, subjugation, whatever you want to call it of populations — and then along came the United States of America. Pilgrims were the first to come here seeking freedom from all of that. They were told they had to believe in the king and his god, whatever it was, or they would be imprisoned. Waves of people fled Europe to escape the tyranny of their ordinary lives.

    For the first time in human history, a government and country was founded on the belief that leaders serve the population. This country was the first in history, the EXCEPTION — e-x-c-e-p-t, except. The exception to the rule is what American exceptionalism is.

    Recent generations have squandered that inheritance.

  30. Jack, perhaps one more. I am enslaved to Corporate Supply Lines. This is the life I have led: I get up in the morning to an alarm clock powered by The Electric Corporation. I eat expensive breakfast cereal sold to me by The Grocery Store Corporation. I drink toxic water from The City Water Dept. I drive my kid to The Government School, then I go to work using fuel from The Big Petroleum Corporation. Then I slave away as a piss ant for yet another Large Corporation that pays me little so their bottom line can enrich the elite. I stand here in my caged world and I hear you, Jack. I have caught the vision and dreamed the dream. I have not only heard you, but I have found a sharp tool in a corner of my cage and one link at a time I will break these chains. You have inspired me, Jack and not only me. I hear the sound of breaking chains in other cages all around me.

  31. Good stuff; the only thing I really think Jack got wrong was the “American Exceptional-ism” complaint. What he was describing is NOT “American Exceptional-ism”, it is nationalism. Unfortunately, thanks to a government run wild, and a complaisant populace very few, if any people in America can truly partake in the liberty inducing state created by “American Exceptional-ism”.

  32. Thank you, I will 😉

    Despite what was said, American exceptional-ism is NOT ra-ra cheer-leading for everything American. Characterizing it as such does a dis-service to the unique set of opportunities provided to us, through the ideas that America was founded on, as well as the rugged individualism that those ideas foster.

    Delete…flowery, deep pontification on what American exceptional-ism is, the freedoms and liberties is creates, how Jack is proof that it exists and is a good thing…/delete

    In the end, I agree with the analysis of the problem; I just disagree with the term used to describe it.

    • That is because you buy into the bullshit! There are dozens of nations with better opportunities in some areas and worse in others and vise versa. There are many nations where it was never acceptable for one MAN TO OWN ANOTHER MAN. So don’t go saying well “as we were founded”, etc.

      Theft, corruption and control very by method, they are still what they are. No man is so enslaved as one who falsely believes himself to be free. That buddy is today’s America!

  33. Man, are you jaded, or what?

    Call my stance bull-shit. Call me a slave, either outright or through insinuation, as well. It’s your site, you are free to do as you wish. I didn’t come here to argue with you, or call your postion bull-shit in return. I just came to express an honest disagreement with what I consider a mis-characterization of a phrase. At this point, I’ll also add that blanket condemnation can be as big a slave-master as blanket acceptence. Finally, I didn’t post my comment in order to receive the gospel according to Jack. Do you know what the biggest slave-master of all is; the one that trumps all 6 that you laid out? It’s ego.

    I’ll still follow TSP. I’m done with this little exercise, though.