Episode-1425- Orion Martin of — 53 Comments

  1. Wow, this is an awesome idea. IF you do not reach your funding goal I know of a company you might consider doing a strategic alliance with… they would fit hand-in-glove with your app and they could give you instant nationwide distribution. Good luck on your campaign!


    • So you denied me right to council, really, okay, I think my lawyer will want to know that.

    • Good point. Do you have the right to counsel immediately and at every interaction with law enforcement, though? For example, here in FL, you do not have the opportunity to counsel when faced with the choice of blowing into a breathalyzer. (I have a friend who was a prosecutor and is now a defense attorney, and this was something that never sat well with her.)

      I’m sure that it will take some time to work through all of the details (and they won’t all likely have resolutions by launch), but I’m in as a supporter anyway. This is a fantastic idea, and I hope that it gets off the ground.

  2. Wow, what an awesome idea and an awesome company. The only thing I would like to add is, if the phone has enough battery power (I know streaming and video takes a lot of battery power).

    One additional concern, I hope sidekik isn’t streaming and storing everything into a central location, because government can always hack, destroy, confiscate that particular server.

    Third, what about traveling, which attorney or attorneys would the sidekik connects to? For example, if I live in Chicago and I am traveling in California, and I do not have a dedicated attorney to represent me, how would sidekik know who to send the info to? Would sidekik picks a California attorney then?

    Wonderful product. Great job.

    • I’d suggest you keep the phone plugged in while it is mounted on the dash board somehow. That way, no power issues. I’m in a rural area which often has decent coverage, but often doesn’t, so I still have that concern I may not always be able to use it when it is needed.

      I don’t know how they will store the data (distributed and encrypted would be the best, but I have no idea what they are planning). But, the cops aren’t likely to have the ability to hack the server just to stop your particular video. If the government hacked it, it’d affect all users and you’d know it… it would be in the news.

      • The data will be backed-up on several secure servers. We are also exploring backing the data through a decentralized storage such as MaidSafe, once we are convinced of it’s viability.

        To answer the question concerning State-by-State attorney representation; it doesn’t matter what State you came from, just where you are when you initiate the Sidekik app. When activated, the Sidekik app will only contact attorneys on the Sidekik network who are licensed in the State from which the activation is taking place.

        Concerning phone power, it would be wise to keep your phone charging when driving and also to consider getting an attachable power pack. You can also get an extra long charging cord so you can hold your phone at your car window when using Sidekik and not have to worry about running out of power.

        Additionally, a piece of hardware we will be rolling out after launch is a docking port which can be clipped to your car window. The docking port will allow you hands-free use of Sidekik while still ensuring the phone stays charged during use of Sidekik. The port will come with small bluetooth video cameras you can place facing the front, back, and sides on the inside of your vehicle. When you activate Sidekik and place your phone in the docking port, the cameras will activate as well and begin streaming video from four additional viewpoints to the secure servers.

        If you have any additional questions or concerns, feel free to post them and I will respond as soon as possible.

        • That docking port with the extra cameras sounds interesting. By the way, I would be interested in using that in non-police-encounter scenarios without needing lawyer assistance or counting against the 12 uses per year. For example, if some road rage idiot starts freaking out, I’d like to start recording on all cameras. I could have used it just last week… some idiot in a Jeep Wrangler with MA plates kept hitting the brakes in front of me for no reason to try to cause a collision… why I have no idea as I had no previous issue with him, he just started stomping on the brake. Who knows, maybe the police would actually be interested in getting video of people like that (but I doubt it).

          Is the 12 uses per year just for lawyer access? i.e. camera-only use can record on the servers whenever I want without counting down from 12 uses? Also, if I activate the laywer and the situation can’t be resolved on the side of the road, and I need further lawyer help, would this guy be my laywer (and would I pay him extra)? If I live in another state than the incident, would I switch lawyers somehow?

          Thanks for everything you’re doing; I chipped in $20 yesterday.

        • Orion,

          Great thoughts on the docking port and power cord. Great product.

          Hopefully it will launch soon.

      • I couldn’t access the reply tab to your questions posted below, so I’ll answer them here.

        If you only want to use the audio/video streaming function of the Sidekik app, you can do so. You will have full control over every feature of the app. When first activated, you will be presented with two options:
        1) audio and video streaming only
        2) audio and video streaming with legal representation

        If you opt for audio/video only and later decide you want an attorney as well, you will be able to tap an icon on the screen which will initiate the video call to the attorney network and in a few seconds you will have legal representation. Your audio/video streaming will remain uninterrupted.

        We are still working on how to count the use of data storage only, but I agree that it should not count (at least fully) toward one of the 12 uses per year.

        The attorney/client relationship established during the use of legal services through Sidekik extends only as far as you want it to. For example, let’s say someone get’s pulled over for a DUI stop and that person uses Sidekik’s legal network to be represented. The initial representation for that stop will not cost the Sidekik user anything beyond their subscription fee. If that subscriber ultimately gets arrested and charged with DUI then the subscriber will have the recording of the encounter and can use the attorney who initially represented them or use another attorney, either one on the Sidekik network or one outside of it. The secondary representation will cost the person faced with a DUI charge and the cost can be negotiated between that individual and the attorney they choose.

        It is typical for an incident to be adjudicated in the State in which the incident occurred. If for any reason you need to switch attorneys from the one who initially represented you to another attorney licensed in a different State, you will be able to do so. The attorney/client relationship established during the initial use of the Sidekik legal network extends only as long as you want it to.

        Thanks for your support and if you have any other questions or concerns just post them here and I will answer as soon as possible.

    • It would have to connect you to an attorney licensed in the state you are in, else the whole thing would fall apart. If it connects you to an attorney licensed in Illinois, because you are from Chicago, but you are pulled over in California, really it’s no different than if it connected you to a random person, and it also would open up the attorney to trouble, because he would then be practicing law in California with out a license. It would be a simple thing for the app to use your phones location, provided you have the GPS turned on. I keep mine turned off simply because the battery lasts longer.

      While I support the app, per sea, on the reasoning behind the app, I can also see where it has a huge potential to do more harm than good.

      Like Jack said about the body cams being a bad idea, and is 100% right. Not only because of the logistical nightmare of dealing with the terabytes and eventually petabytes of video and other digital information ( just my dash cam generates several gigabytes each shift, and it only records when I activate it) each officer would be producing, but it would destroy officer discretion, and end the use of warnings, because each officer will then be forced to default to treating every situation the same, and since 1 guy got a ticket for an out taillight, now everyone gets a ticket, just so the agency doesn’t have to worry about the lawsuits that would occur when someone thinks they are discriminated against because they got a ticket when some other guy got a warning, not to mention if administration can pick apart every little detail of the officers work habits. Why didn’t you stop that car with the out headlight? That pedestrian looks drunk, why didn’t you get out with him? Another issue is in many states, if an officer can write you a ticket for an offense, he can jail you for that same offense. The numbers of traffic stops and police contacts would sky rocket, as would the percentage of offenders ticketed, as would the numbers of people jailed, all because the officers are worried that something they ignored or let go will come back to bite them.

      I would hate to see it come to a point where officers are required to jail people for minor traffic stuff, like an out headlight, just so they can make sure everyone is treated the same. The app can help, as long as everyone uses it in the original spirit of the app. Use it respectfully and for actual violations of your rights committed by an officer, not for the hope that it may intimidate an officer. It won’t, and having a phone shoved in their face on every call or traffic stop can lead to them choosing to take you to jail when otherwise you may have been ticketed and released, or let off with a warning, especially if it comes with the other behavior that often comes with someone recording.

      The other statement I wanted to make is about the officers being used as revenue generators. I have only been in law enforcement in south Carolina, and therefore my view may be limited, but unless it works radically different in other states, it is technically impossible for an officer to generate any revenue for their agency. I sat down and did the math once for a forum post. It was something like an average of 50 tickets an hour I would have to write, just for my county to break even, on me. Every other officer would have to do the same, and my agency would still come up short because the actual agency doesn’t get one dime of any fine money collected by the courts, but still incurs most of the associated costs. That’s assuming everyone just pays the ticket, everyone gets the maximum fine, and noone takes it to a trial.

      • I miss spoke, I looked up the forum post I referenced, it was not 50 tickets an hour I would have to write, it was: I would have to find, stop, investigate, ticket, and release 1 car every 3 minutes, for my entire shift, starting the instant I pull out of my driveway. 1 car, every 3 minutes, for my entire 12 hour shift, with no serving papers, no bathroom breaks, no meal, no break, and no answering a call that takes longer than 3 minutes, and doesn’t result in a ticket. All while patrolling over 500 square miles. That is what would be required of every officer, from the sheriff on down, for my county to break even for the annual budget they provide our sheriff’s office, and we wouldn’t actually see any of it. It varies depending on the charge, but only about $6 out of every $100 collected in fines stays in the local jurisdiction, the rest disappears into never never land.

        • @trekker111, keep in mind it isn’t as simple as a ticket. Don’t think your municipality doesn’t keep track of your revenue generation and tickets are but one part of it. Your tickets must also be VERY LOW it does vary by state.

          A typical ticket here in Texas for speeding is well over 100 dollars unless you get cut some type of a break and if you are not a dick that does often happen.

          Pennsylvania is fing insane though! They have a damn price list on the highways when you cross into PA. I haven’t been back for a long time but when I left I remember that a 15MPH over ticket on the highway was like 360 dollars.

          Yet in Montana I got a ticket for 14 over and it was like 15 bucks, I don’t even know how they can afford to write one so low?

          It is all over the map. My bro in law is a Detective Sergeant in Grand Prairie and he told me flatly that the reason I see “blitzs” on the I-20 for the 5 miles it goes though the city’s jurisdiction is that it is the only way their officers get paid overtime.

          These guys will get as many as 20 officers in one blitz. A few running radar and the rest being called out to pull people over. You will drive down 5 miles of highway and see people pulled over up and down the damn thing all weekend long.

          The speed limit coming in from both sides is 70 so as you know most are doing 75, by some strange circumstance which Grand Prairie claims they are not responsible for the speed limit drops to 65 in that stretch. There is no good reason, there is just as many exits and just as much traffic before and after it. The entire thing is a cash cow and everyone who is local knows it. I was told flatly if you get popped in one of these no matter how decent you are you are NOT getting a warning and 95% of the time any and all possible citations will be issued, cracked tail lights, failure to signal, etc. no warnings, period.

          I mean when you bust a guy for DUI what does that eventually profit the state/legal system cabal?

          Right here where I live just a mile south is a little town called Lakside, TX population 1203 on the sign. Total number of cops? Um, well, 12 just about one per hundred citizens. All these guys do is write tickets on a strait as an arrow road about 6 miles long with a speed limit of 45. Almost every time I go though I see at least two cars running radar and almost always at least one has popped someone.

          Where i lived in Pennsylvania when I was a kid there was ONE cop for our entire “Township”. I promise you if Officer Jack Harley gave you a ticket you had more than earned it. He was a great guy.

          For example some dude knocks on my door one night saying he hit a dog. I go out and the dog is not going to make it, no way in hell, fully run over both front and rear tires. I was about 16 and the only one home, I go in, get a 22 and shoot the dog. Here comes Officer Harley. Pulls over, lights on, me standing there with a gun with some stranger and a dead dog.

          Never gets excited, we tell him what happens and he is like so you are going to get rid of this thing right? Just then two Minersville cops who saw his lights come up the road. They had jurisdiction to town and the high school, everything else is Harley’s area.

          They jump out all keyed up, hands on their guns because I am standing there with a slung rifle. Totally ignoring that officer Harley is talking to me all calm and sitting on the hood of his car. They start a bunch of shit about the gun, the dog, etc. Jack cuts em off, says to them “just shut the F up”, and says the full word. Tell them to get the F out of his area and he will let them know when and if he needs them.

          A month later we finally find out who owned the dog, no collar, no license, no nothing and they live like 5 miles away. The people want me “punished” for killing their dog, will not be reasonable.

          So Harley tells them, your dog was running free, no rabies tag, no license. I can write you three citations or you can use your brain and thank the young man for doing what needed to be done. I have known him and his family a long time, he is a hunter and knows animals, if he said it needed doing it needed doing.

          Jack Harley was an officer of the peace, not an enforcer of the law. He wasn’t some Mayberry fake hick Andy Griffith Sheriff type. He was real and tough when he had to be, but he was never an asshole just to be an asshole.

        • I have a different take on “raising revenue” – first, even if no one on your force (PD or Sheriff) ever wrote a ticket their budget is already funded. So, to say you wouldn’t be able to raise revenue unless you wrote a ticket every 3 minutes is specious. You budget for the next year is already approved and allotted. Now, IF you write a ticket then there IS revenue coming back to the municipality… and maybe most of it doesn’t make it back to your division. So what? It still made it back to the municipality. So, the more you write the more money goes back to the muni… it certainly IS a revenue generator and if nothing else it offsets what you have in your budget. In Tennessee in my county, I-24 runs right through it… we have a Drug Enforcement Division and they have those big SUVs painted white and they sit on the side of the interstate, sometimes 4 wide… I always wondered how the heck they could be sittin’ on the side of the road and be able to pick out a drug runner when they passed by… I found out when I went through our Sheriff’s 16 week Citizen’s Academy and every division of his office came and taught a class every week. When the DEU showed up they explained that they don’t try to catch drug dealers per se, but by pulling someone over FOR ANY MINOR INFRACTION it gives them a chance to profile for potential perps. They pull you over for a taillight or not using your indicator or following too closely. They might find an older white guy in his 50’s+ with a young white girl in her early 20s… this is a profile match… two officers each question each perp. They inform them that having a taillight is a serious issue in TN and we want our drivers to be safe… I’m not going to write you a ticket this time, just a warning. (the perp breaths sigh of relief) this is where the technique is applied… Police get friendly, “so where y’all headed?” -Atlanta, “Whats down in Atlanta?” -We’re going to see the braves… you driving all the way from AZ? Do you have relatives down there or are you staying with family or something? We staying with some friends… and on it goes. Then the two cops match up stories for inconsistencies. – if there are some, then the cop goes to the driver and says, we have a problem, your story doesn’t match your passenger. You don’t have any drugs, weapons or large SUMS OF CASH do you? The will say no, The cop then asks, “You don’t have Marijuana, cocaine, meth, etc, etc” and watches the perp closely as if they do have one of the listed they generally glance back at the car giving the cop a subconscious affirmation. When the perp say no, the cop then says, “Well since you don’t have anything you wouldn’t mind if we search you car do you? many let them (stupid) and they get busted when the search yields results. If they refuse the search, the cops play hardball and bring out the dogs… the dogs get a “hit” (and many suspect they can train dogs to false hit to get around a search warrant being issued) and go that route.

          HERE’S THE MAIN OBJECTIVE.. The cops aren’t as interested in finding drugs as they are in FINDING CASH. If you have any some at all -from a couple of thousand in cash on up… they take it every time – unless you have some sort of paper trail – you sold a car and have a receipt for that amount of money etc. but they take it because they assume you sold drugs… now it is up to you to go to court and prove you didn’t use it for drugs… in other words, you’d better have a paper trail and proof it was sourced from somewhere else.. this takes months for the process to clear your innocence and get your cash back. in the meantime any financial hardship caused by this (illegal imo) taking is on you…

          So, this is another way the count sheriff in my county “makes money.” It got so bad that news stories started surfacing about this practice and it was proven that the would spend most of their patrol time on 1-24 WESTBOUND SIDE and not Eastbound. Why? Because most drug runners take drugs from CA,NM, AZ and run them to the east coast. They bring the cash back going west… so the cops always spent more time westbound looking for the cash in return. Didn’t worry that they could have prevented drugs from hitting the streets after they sold. pisses me off.

          So, again, just because you don’t pay for your own salary by giving tickets doesn’t mean the ticket you write doesn’t produce revenue… maybe not “profit” or a good ROI but is DOES produce revenue…

        • oh yeah, they took the money with the attitude that if they are a mule they won’t be coming back to court to claim the money… no harm, no foul. But it does impact the occasional innocent person that may have some cash… I argued this to the guy teaching the class and he says he couldn’t think of any reason why anyone would be carrying a lot of cash. I responded with “Because the want to and it’s none of your damn business.” I went on to prove to him a legitimate reason why I sometimes carried a lot of cash. And on I-24 coming back from Manchester in the Westbound lane. I sometime do “Gold Parties” where ladies bring their broken jewelry, missing earrings, kinked herring bone chains and unwanted gold stuff. I would test it, grade it, price it and make a cash offer. I would bring $3000 to $5000 with me depending on how many guests my host would have. I could have easily been stopped and treated as a criminal. I’m innocent until proven guilty.

        • I am not sure how our fines stack against the fines in other states, but from my experience in court here, a speeding ticket less than 10 over can be up to $181, but is usually $81. 20 or more over is $652.50. The largest traffic related would be DUI 3rd or subsequent offense with a blood alcohol level of .15 or higher, or a refused data master test, which according to statute can be as high as $10,000. If I were to arrest and charge that DUI, by the time the case went through, the various entities involved on the prosecution side are going to be in to that case for easily $1000 once the various costs are tallied. If the full $10,000 is levied, all but roughly $600 will disappear into various state coffers never to be seen by us again, the flow of fine money is a roughly one way street from the local level courts and agencies up, and local agencies get no monetary benefit from ticket writing, per sea. It costs an agency nothing to send a new officer to the police academy, except their salary while there, and the academy is funded mostly off fine monies collected, so theoretically, if officers were to just stop writing tickets all together, the agencies would have to start paying to train new officers.

          I have seen some schemes where agencies, especially municipalities, have tried to increase their ability to make revenue, like passing ordinances which mimic state law. Fines for ordinance violations are basically reversed in their dispersement with about $6 out of every hundred going up the chain, and the rest staying local. I also hear every few years of some small Podunk town that just refused to send in the ticket monies and kept it all, and got audited. Why would they do things to keep it if the current system rewarded them for writing the tickets in the first place?

          There have been times I have went months without writing a single ticket, never have I had anything said to me about it. I have seen other deputies get their ass crawled for writing too many tickets. I have heard the sheriff yelling at them from behind his closed office door that every ticket they write costs him money, and if they want to write so many tickets they need to apply with the highway patrol.

          The seizure of drug funds, or at least perceived drug funds, is also a double edged sword. The process of doing it is such a complicated pain that rarely is it worth it unless it is several thousand dollars, and then even if successful, the ways in which the money can be used is so narrow in scope that it only helps with further narcotics enforcement. It can be used to buy dog food, pay vet bills, and training costs for a detection dog, but not for a tracking dog. It can be used for aircraft fuel for flights looking for drug operations, but not a search flight looking for a lost hiker. It can be used for paying a CI to go make drug buys, but not to pay a officer.

          I have seen the peace officer comments crop up several times in the liberty/survivalist community over my time. I have considered myself a member of this community for nearly 20 years. I have dug looking for the actual definition of a “peace officer”. There are various statute definitions across the country which basically make the term synonymous with law enforcement officer. I ran across several discussions that said cops used to be peace officers, but not anymore. Which led my search to ” what did peace officer used to mean” alas I could find no definition. I found the term used back into old British common law back onto the 1600’s, but no definition. So one night driving around it struck me to treat it the same was Jack defined survivalist, break it down into its component parts define them individually, then put the definitions together. Since the meaning of words change and evolve over time, I also looked for the oldest definitions I could find, which weren’t out of left field. When the supreme court tries to define a word in the constitution, so that the meaning they use is the meaning the word had when first written, they often turn to black’s law dictionary first edition, which is the oldest legal dictionary I could reference, and was published in 1891. (They only defined peace officer as a police officer, sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, or other person involved in keeping the peace)

          The definition for peace was :the tranquility, security, and freedom from commotion or disturbance which is the sign of good order and harmony and obedience to the laws among all the members of the society.

          The definition of officer was : one who is lawfully invested with an office. One who is charged by a superior power (and particularly by government) with the power and duty of exercising certain functions.

          The would mean a peace officer is: one who is lawfully vested with the power and duty of enforcing obedience to the law by all members of a society to promote tranquility, security, and freedom from commotion or disturbance which is the sign of good order and harmony.

          There is definitely a discussion to be had about the number of laws we have, but I see no way to argue that a peace officer is something other than an enforcer of law.

          I will never say that there are no violations of rights committed by police. It is obvious that it happens from time to time but when people say it is getting worse, I think things are being viewed out of context, and filtered by what some feel.

          There is an idealized image of police in the past, much like life in general. Lots of people talk about simpler times, how life was easier back when, when it is our perception of their lives that simplifies it in our view. Had we a time machine I doubt anyone in the 1920’s, or 1820’s would say our lives are tougher than theirs. In much the same way there is a perception of gentleness (and non-militarization) cast upon police of the past, when in reality they have much more power and could get away with a lot more than police of today. Until the 1960’s it was completely legal for the police to shoot and kill you for simply running from them. People used to get hung for what we would consider a minor offense today. The first recorded line of duty death of an officer in our county was a sheriff in 1921 who was shot when his revolver discharged while pistol whipping someone who refused to get in the car. In the same way, had we a time machine, I doubt an officer from 1820 would look at police of today and say we have too much power, or use too much force. It is more likely they would laugh at our tasers and pepper spray and ask why we just don’t beat them and take them to jail.

          It’s easy to find the story of how bonnie and Clyde were “caught”. What would happen today if the police layed an ambush and riddled a car with automatic weapons fire.

          I have seen pictures of our past sheriff in the 20’s with a horse drawn wagon with a 1919 browning machine gun mounted in the back, and his deputy’s toting Thompson sub machine guns and BARs.

          I’m not saying I agree with the way it used to be, just that everything needs examined in the same context.
          I don’t think the dog story illustrates a peace officer vs police officer, it’s more good cop vs asshole cop.

        • you make some valid points… I think the issue is that society has moved on… we no longer act the same way we did in the 60’s or 1920’s or earlier. We expect more from all parties. While it may not be getting worse… the fact is it is getting reported with more regularity because we are “wired” – smart phones, video, audio etc. And maybe it may not be getting worse but is seems like it is because more and more reports are getting traction. Jack still nails this argument… YOU are one of the good guys… but even a small % of all cops might be the assholes but that small percentage is a large number… and many of them still think it is the 1960’s and they think they can get away with it… if their fellow “good cops” would just step up and stop this shit, we as citizens would not have to resort to videoing any and all routine stops as many of them escalate to the nightmares that leaves regular people at the mercy of a rogue cop.

        • Minnesota 2012 the average seizure was a $963.50. That’s the AVERAGE. How many people had their grocery money or rent money seized because they had a joint in the car or the LEO thought they smelled smoker? Seizure laws were passed to “get the drug kingpins” but the reality is it hits the middle and lower class.

          I hope Minnesota gets to a point of decriminalization but at least this year we had legislation passed that said the cops can’t keep the money unless there is a criminal conviction.


  3. Just listened to the podcast interview with Orion. This is technology that is very much needed. I am a MSB member and kicked in for $20.00.

    • I’d like to contribute too. Does anyone know what happens if the funding goal isn’t reached? I haven’t contributed to a “kick starter” type of thing before so I’m not familiar with the details.

      • If we don’t reach our goal, then we will run another campaign while continuing to pursue private investment. If the current campaign ends and we have not reached our goal, everyone who contributed will still get their corresponding subscriptions when we launch the Sidekik app.

        The good thing about Indiegogo is that we will still receive 91% of the funding even if we don’t reach our goal. The amount we have received so far is enough to begin work on the first phase of the app. I spoke to the app development company, Zco Corporation, today and they will be starting development for the first phase this coming Monday the 15th. Finishing the rest of the app will, however, require additional funding.

        If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I will respond as soon as possible.

  4. come on ppl they are only at $6500 and change. I pledged $100, I can just afford that but I can’t afford not to have an app like this. I will bump up my support amount if they get close because I think it has so much value. Some of you have deep pockets… step up and pledge. My local law enforcement I don’t worry about but CPS scares the hell out of me. An app where my wife can simply say “give me a minute to let you talk to legal council” Invaluable!!!!!

    • Wish I could help. Alas… I cant even continue my Permy payments. 🙁 Yeah, that sucks big time. (tightens belt)

      I hope everyone has a great time at the fall gathering thingy. It sounds like its going to be a hoot! Ill be there in spirit, being only 60 miles away. lol

    • Okay, I just sent $20 5 minutes ago. I’d do more but I had an avalanche of unexpected expenses this month. Please help contribute, folks.

    • That assumes police are under the control of the same people in charge of the IRS, they are not. Your local deputies are under no ones control except for your county sheriff. Your local police are under no ones control other than your mayor, or city council, through the police chief. These persons are locally elected by the voters of the area they serve.

      If your local LEOs are ever under anyone else’s control, it is because your sheriff or mayor gave them that control, and it sounds like you need a new sheriff or mayor.

      A sheriff can tell state and federal agencies to pound sand, it’s up to the people to elect one who will.

  5. Awesome! Granted, Ive never had a problem with the police, but it takes just one time to ruin your day/life. Looking forward to progress on this great idea.

  6. Will sidekik be available in the US Virgin Islands?

    We surely could use it here. I am sure they could also use it in Puerto Rico.

    Also, as was said on the Survival Podcast, it would be applicable in a variety of different circumstances. Would this also apply if confronted like all Federal law enforcement agencies?

    If you would say that you could make it available in US territories like here in the USVI, I know of quite a few friends who would gladly support your funding campaign

    John “Caribe”

    • After we launch in the 50 States and D.C. we will be working as fast as possible to branch out to other countries and territories, including the USVI. The only complication with the USVI is connectivity, as streaming data and video calls typically requires a 3g network. If the USVI has the requisite networks then Sidekik will definitely expand there.

      To answer your questions about federal agents, yes, attorneys on the Sidekik network will be well versed concerning interactions with federal agents.

  7. not a perfect idea but someone has to be the first to get this started
    it is worth my $$. donated

    i bet it will take more than 3months, but can’t wait to see how far they get. 🙂

  8. What is your strategy to keep attorneys recruited and available… I guess they will need to work shifts? They would have to be in front of a camera and ready to roll, right? And there would have to be more than one? I’m on duty as an atty but I need to take a bathroom break… Murphy’s Law says this is the exact time someone will initiate a SideKik session. Just wondering about that… have you started on developing your attorney network? cheers,

    • I was wondering the same thing. They don’t all work 24 by 7. I hope you can contract enough into your network for the attorneys to do this 24/7.

  9. Thanks Orion,

    I have 4G on my current smart phone here in the US Virgin Islands and it works fine.

    I plan to invest what I can before this round of funding ends and will spread the word to others who would be likely to also do so.

    John “Caribe”

  10. Spot on.. Also, about the CPS and regulatory agencies… Most people do not understand that you CANNOT fight these people under the law. They “let” you have a “hearing.” That hearing does not conform to ANY LAW on the books. They only conform the “guidelines” of any said regulatory agencies. Because people in government are obviously on a much higher moral ground right? EPA CPS, DHS, and the thousands of pages in the CFR. Laws are bad, but regulatory agencies are worse. Any, and I mean ANY tool in our arsenal to combat the overreach of government I will welcome and support with open arms. It also all starts with less people thinking and saying out loud “someone should do something about that, someone needs to write a law about that.” If you can’t even battle these agencies in a court of law, why do they exist? For that matter how can they possibly use the court system for their purposes, and not allowing an entity to defend itself.

    I don’t know how to fight these agencies, and corrupt law.. But this is a start. For the LEO’s, I feel bad that our great women and men in Law Enforcement and the Military have to deal with rotten battle buddies. But it also starts from the top. The LEO’s are a representation of their LEADERSHIP, just as much as a squad is representative of the Squad Leader and Platoon Leader in the Army.

  11. Great episode. I hope that this app gets the funding and enough lawyers for each state to run efficiently. I’d love to also see the news pick this up but then I think of the bull shit spin and lies they would say about it.

  12. Great idea. I have not had a chance to listen to the show yet but I was wondering if your system can be used in the Uk?


  13. Two questions –

    How would this work with small business? I run a completely legal tax compliant business in New York, out of a home office. I’ve heard stories about various state tax entities showing up on the doorstep due to a ‘missing’ sales tax payment, employment issue, etc, and essentially closing up shop and taking the operating account.

    Also, this one may be slightly out of your realm, but what about operating this system in areas with no cell coverage? If someone had a cabin or homestead what would be the best form of linkage, satellite, or SOL? I may even kick this one over to Jack, but genuinely interested.

    Heading over to MSB to kick in.

  14. The one thing I don’t understand about sidekik is whether or not it immediately goes into “lawyer mode” or not? It would seem to me you would want to turn on recording capabilities at EVERY encounter but not necessarily legal assistance at EVERY encounter.

    Most of these cop scenarios (at least that I’ve seen on youtube) it always starts off as the same old same old and just gets more and more stupid. At least for me, I’m not sure I’d feel comfortable calling a lawyer each and every single time a police officer says “hey” to me. (not that it ever happens really anymore). I can also only see the number of police who are going to say “stop talking on the phone” hah thinking you’re just ignoring them and talking to a buddy.

    Great and solid idea, especially the streaming to another server. I will note though that the police will have well within their capabilities to subpena the video especially if they think it will help their case.

  15. I’ve been a police officer for 20 years now and I fully admit there are “bad apples” like the ones we’re all talking about. Luckily I’ve had the privilege of working with a group of “good apples” and have never been put in a situation where I’ve needed to step in and stop an officer from doing something stupid. I deal with people in a professional, polite manner until their behavior dictates otherwise. I’ve received VERY few citizen complaints throughout my career, none of which have been substantiated. In fact, at least two of them have been unsubstantiated due to my in car camera system! I have absolutely NO PROBLEM being recorded because I conduct myself in a professional manner.

    That being said, I can see a problem with the Sidekik app as it pertains to the attorney video call. I can only speak for myself and not my fellow officers but when I make a traffic stop, I’m going to interact with person driving the car, not a phone. The person on the phone did not commit the violation, the driver of the vehicle did. Also, I have no way of determining if the person on the phone is in fact an attorney. As far as I know, the person on the phone could just be one of the driver’s buddies who he called at the time of the stop. Now don’t get me wrong, if the driver wants the person on the phone to listen to our interaction that’s perfectly fine by me but to expect an officer on the street to “deal with a phone” instead of the driver of the vehicle he/she has stopped is not going to work. If the driver wants to ask the person on the phone for advice that’s perfectly fine too but I wouldn’t expect the officer to conduct the traffic stop via the phone. Like I said, the person on the phone is not the person I stopped, the driver is. As with all things, there is a time and a place. What I tell people on the street who don’t agree with the ticket I’ve just issued them, the side of the road is not the place to argue this the courtroom is. I encourage anyone who feels they have been wrongly accused or violated in some way to take the issue to court however I’m not going to stand and argue with someone, or their phone, on the side of the highway with cars whizzing by at 70 mph. I’m all for the driver asking his/her attorney for advice if they’re on the phone at the time of the stop but like I said, I wouldn’t expect the officer to conduct the stop THROUGH the person on the phone.

    I completely understand the need for this app. I know there are a lot of cops out there that do not conduct themselves as they should (Like I said, I’m lucky not to work with any of them) however I don’t want “Joe Citizen” to get warped out of shape when the officer who stopped him for speeding refuses to talk on his phone instead of talking to him. I’ll give you the same advice your “attorney phone” would give you right now ….. provide the officer with information you’re required to, ie: Driver’s License, phone number, insurance info, etc and after that SHUP UP! If the officer asks “do you know how fast your were going?” simply say, “I’d rather not answer any further questions officer”. Now if that torques the officer off and he starts acting like an asshole then you have it recorded with Sidekik but if it’s me, I’ll simply say OK and go back to my car and write your citation. I’ll come back up, issue you the citation, ask you if you have any questions and then get you on your way with a “have a safe day and watch your speed for me”. End of encounter.


    • @Matt66, if one more of you LEOs refers to your fellow psychopaths with badges as “bad apples” I am soon going to lose respect for all of you. Get a damn clue dude, that right now is perhaps the most disrespectful way you LEOs speak to the public about this problem and I know you all fail to realize it so I am pointing it out NOW for you. Get a damn CLUE.

      Should we refer to the illegals that join gangs like the “Southern Mexicans”, “Latin Kings”, and “MS13” as “bad apples”. Do you ever hear hard working immigrants do this?

      Are the whack job nuts that blow themselves up in the name of Allah “bad apples”?

      Let me tell you that bad cops are a bigger threat to the average person than either of the above. Gang Members and Terrorists don’t get a badge and the authority of the state with which to victimize others.

      Until you “good cops” start calling bad cops what they are, “oath breaking criminals” whether you work with them or not, you ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM. Please get that, my open here was over the top to hopefully get your attention, I will never lose respect for all LEOs BUT those that act as apologist I will lose it for individually.

      Can you imagine what a slap in the face it must be to someone who was a victim of police violence and abuse to hear another cop refer to the person that did it to them as a “bad apple”. Eddie Haskel was a bad apple, a bad cop is an oath breaking piece of shit.

      Let’s try to make a few more analogies so you might understand how condescending and wrong this phrase is.

      Would you tell a woman who was raped that “most men are good but there are a few bad apples out there”?

      Would you tell a child that was molested by a coach, “most coaches are good but there are a few bad apples out there”?

      It is frankly apologetic bullshit! The thin blue line brotherhood bullshit run a muck! Please think about this the next time you think about using the term bad apples in regard to a person with the authority of the state and the trust of society using one to violate the other.

  16. Sorry, been away on vacation for a while.

    Apparently my use of the term “bad apples” to describe some of my “fellow psychopaths” came off as apologetic to Jack and possibly others. It of course was not meant to, I by no means am apologizing for anyone’s behavior. When it comes down to it, I can only apologize for my own behavior should I ever conduct myself improperly. So, if anyone wishes, feel free to edit my original post and change “bad apples” to “oath breaking pieces of shit” and change “good apples” to I guess “non-oath breaking pieces of shit”. I tried to edit the post myself to make these changes however I was unable to do so.

    With that being said, I would like to know your thoughts Jack on the content of my post? It’s clear that the “bad apple” “good apple” thing struck a chord but I hope it did not overshadow or diminish the point I was trying to make.

    • I got your point and appreciate your input. Jack bit your head off there and really didnt address the rest of your comment. Guess your really struck a nerve.

      • Let me give both of you one more clue, the term is fucking completely totally insulting to every human who was ever abused by a law enforcement officer.

        Got it?

        Call them what they are, oath breaking criminals or stop wasting my time. I have no respect for anyone that won’t call a criminal a criminal, NONE.

        So clear it up for me Ryan and Matt, when a cop abuses his power, breaks the law and abuses a citizen, is he a scum bag criminal who broke his oath or is he a “bad apple”?

        Which one?

        And if you say criminal, please explain this to your other fellow LEOs and don’t let them say stupid shit like bad apples any longer with out correction.

        If you still want to say bad apples, well I just don’t give a shit what you have to say at all. I am open to many things, I am open to both sides of most stories but not here.

        When an officer is an oath breaker the BEST he is deserving of is being fired and jail time, the end, over, out, no damn more. Either man up and be part of the solution or don’t bitch when the public lumps you in as part of the problem.

  17. Jack,

    I understand that you are pissed off with police officers and people in general referring to cops breaking their oath and/or the law as “bad apples”. I get your point about it being insulting to those people who have been the victims of these cops. What I was saying in my initial post was I have never personally been witness or party to anything like the incidents we are all seeing in the videos, news stories, etc. Believe me if I am ever witness to a fellow officer acting inappropriately, I will step in and intervene. When my fellow officers and I talk amongst ourselves about one of these “oath breaking criminals” that has broken the law and violated someone’s rights we don’t sit around and make excuses for him or her. We talk about how assholes like them make us all look bad and how they make our jobs harder! This most recent incident involving the NY deputy who slapped the guy at Walmart …. absolutely he should lose his job and be investigated/charged! You won’t get any argument from me or any other “good cop” I’m sure! A good friend of mine said a long time ago, “A career is something you have to protect, you can’t do stupid shit and expect to keep your job.” I’ve conducted myself over the last twenty years in a manner that has protected my career and by doing so I have ALWAYS honored my oath and I have NEVER violated anyone’s rights.

    So in conclusion, I understand your point about the term “bad apples” and will not use it again when referring to cops who have broken their oath and/or broken the law. It was not my intent to marginalize or apologize in any way. You are right that we, police officers in this country, need to police ourselves first and foremost because if we don’t, who will? All I would ask is that the “good” get as much air time as the “bad”.