I have a different take on “raising revenue” – first, even if no one on your force (PD or Sheriff) ever wrote a ticket their budget is already funded. So, to say you wouldn’t be able to raise revenue unless you wrote a ticket every 3 minutes is specious. You budget for the next year is already approved and allotted. Now, IF you write a ticket then there IS revenue coming back to the municipality… and maybe most of it doesn’t make it back to your division. So what? It still made it back to the municipality. So, the more you write the more money goes back to the muni… it certainly IS a revenue generator and if nothing else it offsets what you have in your budget. In Tennessee in my county, I-24 runs right through it… we have a Drug Enforcement Division and they have those big SUVs painted white and they sit on the side of the interstate, sometimes 4 wide… I always wondered how the heck they could be sittin’ on the side of the road and be able to pick out a drug runner when they passed by… I found out when I went through our Sheriff’s 16 week Citizen’s Academy and every division of his office came and taught a class every week. When the DEU showed up they explained that they don’t try to catch drug dealers per se, but by pulling someone over FOR ANY MINOR INFRACTION it gives them a chance to profile for potential perps. They pull you over for a taillight or not using your indicator or following too closely. They might find an older white guy in his 50’s+ with a young white girl in her early 20s… this is a profile match… two officers each question each perp. They inform them that having a taillight is a serious issue in TN and we want our drivers to be safe… I’m not going to write you a ticket this time, just a warning. (the perp breaths sigh of relief) this is where the technique is applied… Police get friendly, “so where y’all headed?” -Atlanta, “Whats down in Atlanta?” -We’re going to see the braves… you driving all the way from AZ? Do you have relatives down there or are you staying with family or something? We staying with some friends… and on it goes. Then the two cops match up stories for inconsistencies. – if there are some, then the cop goes to the driver and says, we have a problem, your story doesn’t match your passenger. You don’t have any drugs, weapons or large SUMS OF CASH do you? The will say no, The cop then asks, “You don’t have Marijuana, cocaine, meth, etc, etc” and watches the perp closely as if they do have one of the listed they generally glance back at the car giving the cop a subconscious affirmation. When the perp say no, the cop then says, “Well since you don’t have anything you wouldn’t mind if we search you car do you? many let them (stupid) and they get busted when the search yields results. If they refuse the search, the cops play hardball and bring out the dogs… the dogs get a “hit” (and many suspect they can train dogs to false hit to get around a search warrant being issued) and go that route.

HERE’S THE MAIN OBJECTIVE.. The cops aren’t as interested in finding drugs as they are in FINDING CASH. If you have any some at all -from a couple of thousand in cash on up… they take it every time – unless you have some sort of paper trail – you sold a car and have a receipt for that amount of money etc. but they take it because they assume you sold drugs… now it is up to you to go to court and prove you didn’t use it for drugs… in other words, you’d better have a paper trail and proof it was sourced from somewhere else.. this takes months for the process to clear your innocence and get your cash back. in the meantime any financial hardship caused by this (illegal imo) taking is on you…

So, this is another way the count sheriff in my county “makes money.” It got so bad that news stories started surfacing about this practice and it was proven that the would spend most of their patrol time on 1-24 WESTBOUND SIDE and not Eastbound. Why? Because most drug runners take drugs from CA,NM, AZ and run them to the east coast. They bring the cash back going west… so the cops always spent more time westbound looking for the cash in return. Didn’t worry that they could have prevented drugs from hitting the streets after they sold. pisses me off.

So, again, just because you don’t pay for your own salary by giving tickets doesn’t mean the ticket you write doesn’t produce revenue… maybe not “profit” or a good ROI but is DOES produce revenue…

I am not sure how our fines stack against the fines in other states, but from my experience in court here, a speeding ticket less than 10 over can be up to $181, but is usually $81. 20 or more over is $652.50. The largest traffic related would be DUI 3rd or subsequent offense with a blood alcohol level of .15 or higher, or a refused data master test, which according to statute can be as high as $10,000. If I were to arrest and charge that DUI, by the time the case went through, the various entities involved on the prosecution side are going to be in to that case for easily $1000 once the various costs are tallied. If the full $10,000 is levied, all but roughly $600 will disappear into various state coffers never to be seen by us again, the flow of fine money is a roughly one way street from the local level courts and agencies up, and local agencies get no monetary benefit from ticket writing, per sea. It costs an agency nothing to send a new officer to the police academy, except their salary while there, and the academy is funded mostly off fine monies collected, so theoretically, if officers were to just stop writing tickets all together, the agencies would have to start paying to train new officers.

I have seen some schemes where agencies, especially municipalities, have tried to increase their ability to make revenue, like passing ordinances which mimic state law. Fines for ordinance violations are basically reversed in their dispersement with about $6 out of every hundred going up the chain, and the rest staying local. I also hear every few years of some small Podunk town that just refused to send in the ticket monies and kept it all, and got audited. Why would they do things to keep it if the current system rewarded them for writing the tickets in the first place?

There have been times I have went months without writing a single ticket, never have I had anything said to me about it. I have seen other deputies get their ass crawled for writing too many tickets. I have heard the sheriff yelling at them from behind his closed office door that every ticket they write costs him money, and if they want to write so many tickets they need to apply with the highway patrol.

The seizure of drug funds, or at least perceived drug funds, is also a double edged sword. The process of doing it is such a complicated pain that rarely is it worth it unless it is several thousand dollars, and then even if successful, the ways in which the money can be used is so narrow in scope that it only helps with further narcotics enforcement. It can be used to buy dog food, pay vet bills, and training costs for a detection dog, but not for a tracking dog. It can be used for aircraft fuel for flights looking for drug operations, but not a search flight looking for a lost hiker. It can be used for paying a CI to go make drug buys, but not to pay a officer.

I have seen the peace officer comments crop up several times in the liberty/survivalist community over my time. I have considered myself a member of this community for nearly 20 years. I have dug looking for the actual definition of a “peace officer”. There are various statute definitions across the country which basically make the term synonymous with law enforcement officer. I ran across several discussions that said cops used to be peace officers, but not anymore. Which led my search to ” what did peace officer used to mean” alas I could find no definition. I found the term used back into old British common law back onto the 1600’s, but no definition. So one night driving around it struck me to treat it the same was Jack defined survivalist, break it down into its component parts define them individually, then put the definitions together. Since the meaning of words change and evolve over time, I also looked for the oldest definitions I could find, which weren’t out of left field. When the supreme court tries to define a word in the constitution, so that the meaning they use is the meaning the word had when first written, they often turn to black’s law dictionary first edition, which is the oldest legal dictionary I could reference, and was published in 1891. (They only defined peace officer as a police officer, sheriff, deputy sheriff, marshal, or other person involved in keeping the peace)

The definition for peace was :the tranquility, security, and freedom from commotion or disturbance which is the sign of good order and harmony and obedience to the laws among all the members of the society.

The definition of officer was : one who is lawfully invested with an office. One who is charged by a superior power (and particularly by government) with the power and duty of exercising certain functions.

The would mean a peace officer is: one who is lawfully vested with the power and duty of enforcing obedience to the law by all members of a society to promote tranquility, security, and freedom from commotion or disturbance which is the sign of good order and harmony.

There is definitely a discussion to be had about the number of laws we have, but I see no way to argue that a peace officer is something other than an enforcer of law.

I will never say that there are no violations of rights committed by police. It is obvious that it happens from time to time but when people say it is getting worse, I think things are being viewed out of context, and filtered by what some feel.

There is an idealized image of police in the past, much like life in general. Lots of people talk about simpler times, how life was easier back when, when it is our perception of their lives that simplifies it in our view. Had we a time machine I doubt anyone in the 1920’s, or 1820’s would say our lives are tougher than theirs. In much the same way there is a perception of gentleness (and non-militarization) cast upon police of the past, when in reality they have much more power and could get away with a lot more than police of today. Until the 1960’s it was completely legal for the police to shoot and kill you for simply running from them. People used to get hung for what we would consider a minor offense today. The first recorded line of duty death of an officer in our county was a sheriff in 1921 who was shot when his revolver discharged while pistol whipping someone who refused to get in the car. In the same way, had we a time machine, I doubt an officer from 1820 would look at police of today and say we have too much power, or use too much force. It is more likely they would laugh at our tasers and pepper spray and ask why we just don’t beat them and take them to jail.

It’s easy to find the story of how bonnie and Clyde were “caught”. What would happen today if the police layed an ambush and riddled a car with automatic weapons fire.

I have seen pictures of our past sheriff in the 20’s with a horse drawn wagon with a 1919 browning machine gun mounted in the back, and his deputy’s toting Thompson sub machine guns and BARs.

I’m not saying I agree with the way it used to be, just that everything needs examined in the same context.
I don’t think the dog story illustrates a peace officer vs police officer, it’s more good cop vs asshole cop.

Minnesota 2012 the average seizure was a $963.50. That’s the AVERAGE. How many people had their grocery money or rent money seized because they had a joint in the car or the LEO thought they smelled smoker? Seizure laws were passed to “get the drug kingpins” but the reality is it hits the middle and lower class.

I hope Minnesota gets to a point of decriminalization but at least this year we had legislation passed that said the cops can’t keep the money unless there is a criminal conviction.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/minn-closer-stopping-policing-profit/190630/

Paul