Episode-1407- Xavier Hawk on Permacredits and the New Economy — 17 Comments

  1. @XAVIER
    Im curious how do the PermaCredits come to be. For instance If I host a kickstarter campaign for something in the permaculture community. How can I get credits to give to my “backers”. They can’t simply be pulled out of thin air. Do they come through a sponsorship or how exactly does that work. If I had to have that equivalent amount of cash to buy the Permacredits why would I even be seeking a kickstarter if I have that kind of money. This does not make any sense to me. Does this mean you will never be able to buy permacredits with cash? What value does it truly have then?

    Ah Complimentary currencies, very interesting… Still having a difficult time understanding why we would take steps to buy permacredits only to end up converting them back to cash to buy things to get the job done…

    • Projects seeking funding do so in Permacredits not kickstarter. Theres a big pot of money that that gets distributed to projects by the people who bought permacredits. They vote on the projects that get backed. hope this helps clear it up a little.

  2. @Xavier
    I love the passion and enthusiasm for this project, but yet I have real concerns about the implementation. By creating a commodity backed cryptocurrency, you would be stripping permacredits from one off the prima facie benefits of bitcoin (no central control or counterparty risk). Why should I trust any foreign state to not seize the commodity holdings, or apply leverage by threatening to do so (ex UBS Warburg).

    My suggestion, is that if permacredits must be backed by something (preferrably it would not), then back it with bitcoin or another legit CC. That should remove counterparty risk and eliminate storage costs.

    • The backing mechanism is decentralized with numerous vaults and commodity holders. This mitigates the risk of seizure. The foundation is incorporated in a jurisdiction that is crypto friendly, and the Social Self Governance System itself is also Decentralized.

      Having a “legit” CC is misleading. The only “legit” crypto out there is Bitcoin and that is only because people have confidence in it. Also, it is liable to a 51% attack and could collapse any time.

      There is no foolproof currency on the planet. We are just improving the odds in favor of the people and the planet.

      • Numerous vaults and holders, legal licensing, central control to authorize and execute the commodity trades. All of this is going to add both ongoing maintenance costs (that will take continual inputs to feed) and legal risks to the project. As an outside investor looking at competing currencies, that’s a huge negative. And even though you plan to leverage a blockchain based voting system, the system still requires faith in a benevolent entity (your foundation) to execute the will of electorate. You just can’t have a true DAC (Distributed Autonomous Company) if you’re insisting on a physical commodity/backing. I don’t understand the need to have a commodity back the coin, any more than bitcoin needs gold backing, etc.
        Your launch dates are also so aggressive, I can only speculate that you are forking an existing coin (it takes an enormous amount of effort to implement a new coin from scratch).
        My advice, would be to slow down and take a hard look at the ethereum project which is designed to solve most of the problems of running a DAC. If it’s just backed by something like ether, the distributions of those funds can be cooked into the DAC’s voting algorithm without needing a central authority to execute. Funding (in the form of ether or permacredits) would automatically be distributed to whatever wallet received the most votes. This type of system would not require central management, and can run “headless”.
        I know random advice from some guy on the internet, probably isn’t worth much, but I really think it’s a great idea and I hope to see it succeed, so that’s why I’m pointing out what I consider to be problems with the current plan.

  3. I love the idea of bitcion and permacredits but I’m not so positive on the future of our current economic model. I am very pessimistic of our current system based on consumption which is only made possible by technology and large energy inputs. I see a collapse in our current model with just slight reductions in energy suppplies. I think there will be a made scramble (war, conflict) for oil, natural gas when there decreases or interuptions in supply. I like the tribal model and with that minimal consumption and sharing of everything we need cause there won’t be the surpluses that we have today.

    • Yeah the timing of Permacredits couldn’t be better. Confidence makes a currency work, and in a global village a currency with actual asset backing makes the credit actually worth something, therefore instilling confidence.

  4. Is Jack okay. I know he misses shows and he said he’s got a very busy week. It’s not really like him to not at least post to say that there’s no show today. It’s Monday and there hasn’t been a show since Thursday.

  5. @Xavier. Excellent show! You obviously have an excellent, in-depth understanding of money and currency. How did you learn all this stuff? Any suggested websites / books?

  6. What is the book Jack mentions from an author named Richard Boch [or Bock / Bok?] where you check off what you’re willing top pay for certain services?

    • Not sure of which book but the author is Richard Bach. In my opinion Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Illusions were his two best books but it wasn’t those books.

      It was mostly likely in either One, Stranger to the Ground or Nothing by Chance but I am sorry I can’t remember which one it was.

  7. I didn’t hear you guys say anything about how it is going to gain popularity and become known to a larger audience but as a current alternative currency trader all I can ask you to do is NOT put it on cyrptocurrency exchanges such as Bittrex, Poloniex, or Cryptsy. Keep it as a private project inside the community. I heard you mention a pre-sale and wonder who that will be open to. If it’s going to involve any of the standard crytpocurrency crowds the idea of a pre-sale is very out of fashion and will earn you quite a lot of Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. (FUD)

    I can tell you that there is unlimited potential in alternative cryptocoins but if you want to see unregulated greed at it’s finest observe the alt coin markets. Pump and Dumps are the current trend that results in many great coins with true innovation in them laying in the dust forgotten. It will change but has not reached the point where the merits of a coin alone will hold it up without significant efforts from rabid fans backing it. If it is ever going to be publicized in the greater cryptocoin sphere please let it “grow up”. Word of mouth is the way.

  8. Hi Xavier: I just saw you on the news and felt I should network with you. I have been working for several years on developing solutions to ecological / human problems. My end goal is to create disaster resistant communities in developing countries, but the concepts and products can be just as valuable in developed countries as well. I have just developed a UDT, Urine Diverting Toilet, which has many advantages over limited current models available and will have a global impact on health and an immediate impact on the ecology. Two billion people worldwide open defecate every day.
    I should be picking up the fibreglass prototype of that this week. It is designed to be ‘stamped out’ in the millions, for a problem that is in the billions. I will send you (privately) a 13 page proposal that I wrote for IKEA if you contact me on my email. That will explain it all.
    The toilet compost / humus is integrated within a no-dig growing system, based on an idea by Mel Bartholomew, that creates a never ending cycle of food through seed saving and replanting and uses 70% less water than conventional agriculture. This in turn is connected to improving hygiene and sanitation, which has a major impact on macro and micro economy. Malnourished children do not attend school and parents cannot work.
    I also have a build system called kabook-i, using bamboo and earth with a unique locking system to create strong, economical, ecological housing. You can check all this out on my website at The site is a bit ‘choppy’ as I built it myself with no experience, but you’ll get the gist.
    I have been living in S.E. Asia for 25 years and recently moved to Cambodia. I am looking for land to set up an eco tourist village of about 10 cabanas based on traditional Khmer buildings, recycling, reusing and replanting wherever I can. The village will be completely self sustainable (eventually) and become a vocational centre for would be permis who want a more fulfilling escape and learning experience. I will blog it all to share with the global community.
    I know nothing about bitcoin (old school) but it sounds interesting, and if I can make it work for me – then great ! How can I make it work for me?
    Look forward to hearing from you Xavier – and anybody out there looking to discuss this emerging green culture
    Peace to one and all