Episode-1101- Listener Feedback for 4-1-13 — 87 Comments

  1. I listened to your comments on the health of blue states vs red states and low taxes, and you have painted a narrative that doesn’t truly reflect on the quality of life. only the quality of life for those who have money. Texas has the hightst rate of uninsured in the entire country, and some counties have some of the lowest levels of per capita income and median income in the entire county. Right to work states have low wages in comparison to states where right to work laws dont exist. The entire south as a region has the highest rates of poverty in the united states. The south also has high levels of unisured, high levels of obesity, lower mortality rate, etc. I understand exactly why republicans oppose obama care–republican states will finally have to address some of the poverty and unisured rates that have been systemic for decades. These are problems that conservatives sweep under the rug and try to pretend they don’t exist, because then they will have to raise taxes to cover the real problems that exists ofr decades of ignoring problems of poverty.

    I also want to comment on walmart. the first thing I want to say is that the stock market is not a real good indicator of how the economy is functioning. We have corporations with the highest rates of profit in their history who have not invested in america, who pay no taxes when they make billions of dollars in profit but use shell dummy corporations to transfer money offshore to avoid taxation, and use transfer pricing to cheat on taxes. Every year. We have an attorney general’s office that refuses to prosecute corporate ceos with clear evidence of wrongdoing , because they are too big to fail. This entire country is a mess because money is more important than ethics. I laugh when I hear these pundits on tv continually ask where the jobs are. We who work for wages know where they are. Some china man or indian or mexican or canadian or god knows who else has the jobs we used to do. When some guy in tech support answers the phone, says his name is robert, and you cant even understand him because hes from the phillipines, dont you get pissed off knowing you service from these corporations have degraded to nothing and american worker is dispalced from his job somewhere? We know what is wrong–it isnt social services that are driving us into the abyss–these are part of our standand of living, of living in a country that has these kinds of benefits for their citizens, that have been fooled into believe this mantra about globalism and profit, while the majority of americans cant make ends meet. Your future is lost not because of anything but american industrialists selling out the middle class and giving the american dream to every country on the planet, and transferring the wealth of the middle class out of the country as fast as they can destroy it. All because they want a bigger share of the pie. The will never be satifised with they have, and they could own the entire planet’s resources and still not be satisfied.

    • Could you list your sources for all the claims you make. I keep wondering why so many people are leaving the “good quality of life” for the horrible living found in Texas.

        • Key is on uninsured people don’t seem to get that

          2. States like Texas have huge illegal populations that skew the numbers
          3. Say what you want but if you want a job in this state you can get one

          Here is the reality people are not moving to California, Mass, Illinois and New York they are moving out! Price a U-Haul in two directions and it tells you all you need to know.

        • I am glad you are happy where you are. I hope all the others that read the Huffington post and the New York Times stay right where they are. Texas has people moving here that believe in less government and more freedom. The liberal media will do everything they can to make us look bad but I don’t think it’s working.

        • Nice post, Mysterion. But you’re pumping a dry well here (if you know what I mean.) The fact that your comment (probably the most footnoted comment in TSP history) gets largely ignored by the host & the commenter who thought he was being clever by making the request, tells you all you need to know about just how interested these people are in differing opinions – or facts – or actual studies.

          They love their own opinions & theories & they don’t want them questioned. This is a one way street – one with no room for dialogue. Either agree with them, or shut the hell up. Get it? Jack is MUCH too busy being upset over the protocol of the Easter Bunny to bother with your liberal theories about global corporations dictating U.S. tax law to the detriment of the very red state voters whose politicians serve as their front line soldiers.

        • @Mike

          First didn’t you say you were done commenting here, I thought you went off to the Puffington Compost where you would be happier?

          Second, you know what I don’t always feel like taking a ton of time to engage in pointless debate with the indoctrinated it can be fun but it is also time consuming.

          Third, I responded, I made a few points, going further until those are countered (by the way they are hugely valid) isn’t worth my time.

          Fourth, a lot of those “footnotes” are pointless and stupid. More fat people in the south, really? I saw a shit ton of fat people in the northeast. However I don’t really care who is and isn’t fat as long as I ain’t fat. That is a personal choice.

          Fifth, any “study” claiming right to work is bad for the economy of any state is pointless to read. Jury is in on that, find me a state in the top ten for unemployment that isn’t a right to work state.

          Again why are you even commenting, why do you even listen, my libertarian view must be like nails on a chalkboard to you?

      • @Mike (sorry wrong level of reply.. no button) –

        I think you’re mistaking the libertarian commentators (such as myself) for big business boosting republo-nazis.

        I don’t really take part in any debate that’s framed as a Red vs. Blue issue as I believe both parties are fully owned subsidiaries of ‘those in power’. To pretend that the entire federal government isn’t fascist, is a bit silly at this point.

        So I’d rather hear debate about the individual states, rather than participate in broad generalizations about Red v. Blue.

      • @Mike –
        ..and I am interested in facts.. but I don’t expect to find them in ‘studies’ or ‘reports’.

        They tend to be kind of like ‘expert witnesses’ it always seems that both sides of a debate have ‘experts’ willing to attest to the accuracy and usefulness of their ideas.

        So unless you’re only interested in reinforcing your own bias.. they’re just a starting point in the discovery process, which of course, never ends. 🙂

      • @ Jack- There’s a difference between commenting & replying to a comment – an educated one – which was originally dismissed by one of your minions because of a lack of references. Then, when references were provided, largely ignored. Yeah, you “responded” to ONE of his points by making the ridiculous implication that people in the south don’t have insurance because they choose not to have it. How about you? Can you footnote your claim? No, you can’t – because it’s BS. Like most of what you say – did you actually speak with Jessica Hudson? Jack – “Yes, I’ve contacted her directly several times.” Jessica Hudson – “You know, I’ve never spoken with Jack – I was surprised when i heard his broadcast that he had an accent.” If you had vetted her properly before asking your community to hand over $10,000+, you might have found out, like I did, that she did NOT live in the country, but in a high end neighborhood, where anyone with any common sense would know that “farming” was going to be a problem. You would have also learned, like I did, that it was her NEXT DOOR neighbor who complained, instead of telling all your listeners that Jessica had the support of all her neighbors – a fact that completely changes the complexion of that story, no matter how you try to spin it.

        Jack, it’s clear to me now that you make shit up to support your arguments whenever necessary. You have your worldview, & when facts & studies contradict that, you bury your head in the sand, or question the source of the report, or badger the person revealing the information with name calling. I now look at your show as entertainment only, kinda like Pro Wrestling. You know it’s fake, but it’s still fun to pretend the world is ending. That’s my answer to your question, “Why do I listen?” But like I said, I won’t comment, as there is no intellectual discourse happening on this one way street.

        @ Insidious – I cast a big blanket on this crowd, I know – there are some who comment for reasons other than fondling jack’s ballsack & I’d list you as one of them. & by the way, Jack – I’ve left plenty of positive comments, but you once again spun the facts to support your argument when you told Insidious in the JH podcast that I’ve “never left one positive comment – NOT ONE” (paraphrasing)

        • @Mike until I was married I never had nor wanted health insurance. When I ran a construction company and we offered to pay for part of coverage for many of our younger hourly workers (like pay 80% and their policy would be cheap) most said they didn’t want it and would prefer that money as a wage. Given I believe in freedom I called it a monthly production bonus and did so, I am sure that would upset a big time supporter of assclown healthcare such as yourself?

          You are also ignoring my other counter on this, the huge population of ILLEGAL immigrants border states are forced to deal with because the assclowns in DC won’t do their job. These people are counted as “uninsured” and should not be as they should not even be here.

          Lastly people like you see the uninsured as a problem and your solution is to provide it for them. Frankly that makes me want to live in a state with the highest number of uninsured. Let me tell you unlike you I LIVE HERE and I have been to the jammed hospitals like Parkland where illegals go with no insurance, get care and never pay, they never even get a bill. My wife worked in this system for years and treated kids who’s parents were on medicaide and drove nice cars and had the kids in shit like Beauty Pageants and Dallas Cowboys camp, the was a matter of course not an exception to the rule.

          For years she told me how many of these parents would bring in a sick kid and make an appointment to have the other kid/s have a check up because they were going to be there anyway. How about this one a woman who brought in a child with a mild fever to get a prescription for Tylenol, an OTC med she could have gotten generic for 4 bucks or less but came to the office so she could get it for free because that is why she has free health care. With abuse like that I would really hope we end up with even more uninsured.

          So again until the original commenter counters that, there is no point going forward with the other stuff.

        • Oh on the Tylenol one the Doc in question told the lady to go buy it herself and when she said she couldn’t afford it the doc told this lady that smokes two packs a day to not smoke for a day and get her baby some Tylenol, then because she knew the kid would suffer wrote the script anyway. The bitch smoker called the state and said she was abused and treated poorly, that got the Doc a heat call but nothing came of it. A few more years went by that Doctor (and we all know the cost and work becoming one entails) said fuck it and now she is one of the top REAL ESTATE AGENTS in Dallas Texas. That is what insuring the uninsured at tax payer expense gets you so Mike you should stay or go to where ever the insured rate is highest and I think you will love it there.

    • California and Oklahoma both have 6 Miss America titles. This is about as useful a fact as the number of obese people in a state.

      • I agree with you if we just talking about useless trivia, but we were talking about the uninsured, the healthcare changes, poverty, and obesity, which is a big factor in health and risk for everyone. I’m not really familiar with Miss America titles–do they have lower insurance rates and longer lives?

        Maybe we should install a giant treadmill in every neighborhood, and everyone that has more than ten percent body fat should run on it and produce 1 kilowatt of power for each percentage point of bodyfat they have in excess of normal levels. We could make them big enough that the entire neighborhood of Piggly Wiggly bacon munchers could run at the same time. This would have two positive effects on society: It would get the lard asses off the sofa, and it would be producing clean renewable energy, since the supply of lardasses seems limitless, while energy is a finite resource.

        • Well first if you got people to munch bacon and leave alone so called healthy food like bread, pasta and the like the problem would self rectify. I ate a shit load of bacon while I dropped over 80 lbs so first deprogram your mind on what is healthy eating.

          Secondly what right do you or I have to use the state to tell people what to eat or force them to work out? Wow socialist nothing you are going pure commie or fascist here!

          Again this is trivial bullshit though. Does it matter that the obesity rate in one state is 29 and in the “much better state” it is 18? BTW those are real numbers the fattest state is West Virgina (which I sure don’t call the south) at 33% and the least fat is Colorado at about 18%. Um that doesn’t mean southerners are fat it means Americans are fat. If you look here you will see that fatty pockets where numbers are higher and lower are not in the south they are all over the map. I WILL BET they do correspond well to welfare rates though.

          That is what progressiveism (NOT LIBERALISM) has brought us, today the only places you have fat ass poor people are the US and Europe.

          Here is the source data from the Puffington Compost slide show above, the interactive map shows clearly plenty of fat asses in the north.

          Maine 27.5% doesn’t get much further north east then that does it. Main the state that puts a Progressive Republican in the Senate! What an oxymoron!

          New York 24.9% not exactly wonderful is it?

          The other thing is what is obese according to our government? I am 5’10” and now weight about 200 lbs, I played High School football at 5’9″ and 185 yet the federal government would say I am obese. All the guys at the gym without girly arms are also obese if only their weight is considered.

          These reports are bullshit, America is fat because it is easy to be lazy in this country. Instead of a socialist treadmill to make electricity (which you stole from me as it is my PRISON SYSTEM reform lol) how about we just take away all the gravy train crap progressives installed in America. The solution to our obesity problem is welfare and food stamp reform.

          Oh there is no poof of that right, here from the belly of the progressive beast

      • Jack,

        Whoa dude…could you pull the panties out of your asscrack? No need to get them all in a bunch–It was a joke. I never stole anything from you–I had no idea you had some prison reform ideas involving treadmills lol.

        I can’t help it that this is a sensitive area for you to talk about. Mr Paleo, if you lost 80 pounds munching bacon, more power to you.
        There is a simple method to reduce weight that David Letterman talks about—QUIT EATING!!

        We know that just quitting eating isn’t the fastest method to lose weight, but I found it to be highly amusing when he said it, and so did the audience, so I’m not alone. Just from a survival viewpoint,
        it is a good idea to be fit, because the stress of survival situations and your level of fitness will determine your survivability, which I’m sure you are aware of. Many obese people have diabetes and gout, not exactly great when you have to bugout and you cant walk or lack medication. I don’t need to tell you all of this though–you already know about it.

        If you missed the humor of my original post, lighten up. You are waaay too sensitive to bunch up your panties over this topic.

  2. Sorry that was not a easter egg hunt that was a gather.

    When I was little if you didn’t have to work or HUNT for that egg it just was not fun. Not only that if you walked out and picked up an egg that was in plain sight you were finding a “baby” egg. So you were taunted “oh are you a baby getting the baby eggs?” This is what came from the other kids. Then after the hunt we would sit and trade and swap stories. “Where did you find that one” “Oh man this one was so hard to find” Ya know the one that was the hardest to find was always the best tasting. As in with life some of the best times you remember or the best things you have are what is worked for.

    • I had a friend of mine who still does the laundry for her teenagers. She wants to “do” things for them, it makes her feel like she’s showing them love. I told her she is doing them more harm than good. She has made them handicapped because they cannot DO for themselves.

      Kids need to become independent and be problem solvers and we ROB these skills from our kids when we “love” them so much, trying to make life easier for them- kids grow into adults that don’t know how to take care of themselves.

      That Easter egg “hunt” is the perfect picture of a mind-set that becomes a big problem later on.

  3. Question for Jack:

    Deist belief according to online dictionary:
    –The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.–

    IF this is your definition of deism, why do you (Jack) even think that there is a God who supposedly totally abandoned the universe after he created it? IF there is a God, this does not seem to me to be reasonable thinking. IF there really is an omnipotent God who created the universe out of nothing, he then also would be concerned about what happens to any/all of his creation.

    IF I believed in this God, I would certainly want to get to know him well because I know for certain that I am going to die a physical death eventually and so I would want to know what is going to happen to me after I die. Will I cease to exist or will my mind/consciousness continue to exist after my unavoidable physical death? If there is more to come for my mind/consciousness after the physical death of my body, is there then anything that I can do or not do on earth that will determine the quality of my future existence?

    Believing in (this definition of) deism therefore seems to me to be unreasonable thinking….either I should choose to believe in God, get to know him personally, and thereby learn what he expects of me to do while I live on this earth; or else I should choose to deny that he even exists because there will be consequences whichever one of these two choices I choose to embrace IF indeed my mind/consciousness does continue to exist after my physical death.

    • Because if God knows what he is doing his creation can run without his interference. Deists don’t believe God abandoned his creation we believe we can know him via his creation. There are many things about Christianity that I consider to be unreasonable beliefs but I don’t go out of my way to point them out or ask you to defend them. You believe what you believe and I am more then okay with that, if you want to learn about Deism go deeper then a fricken online dictionary or just let it be.

      • I’ve heard your “explanation/excuse” of why you use “colorful”/ “vulgar” language and how we can either choose to put up with it or else stop listening. I thought this was short-sighted on your part for your business’s sake and for your advertising business partners’ sakes. True excellence cannot be attained with this type of attitude, but so be it.

        Because you definitely made “your take it or leave it” opinion very plain, I have since been contemplating whether I should continue to listen or not.

        However, lately I have been finding your unwelcome “colorful”/”vulgar” language invading my own personal thinking in daily life simply because I have been listening to your shows (which indeed had worthwhile things in them), and so I am making a personal choice to not continue to subject my mind to your “colorful” language from this day forward. I do not want it passing through my mind at all and if I continue to listen, I will not be able to remain true to my own convictions about the use of vulgar language. “As a person thinks, he becomes.” I choose to not become like you in this respect.

        You could have corrected my misconception about your deism belief definition without telling me to “go deeper then a fricken online dictionary.” You have many helpful things to say on your shows, but your lack of empathy for other peoples’ sensibilities is a stumbling block for you.

        A grammar check program in addition to a spell check program is sincerely advised for your website toolbox (“than” should have been used instead of “then” in your reply to my post)!

        I do desire good things for you, but I cannot and will not continue to be one of your daily listeners. Please don’t tell me that you do not care about my decision. I already know this. 🙂

        • lol 🙂

          I don’t think people are really getting the whole ‘freedom’ thing.

          Telling someone ‘for your own good.. you should..’ ..

          makes me laugh 🙂

        • @MsH
          I certainly don’t agree with Jack, nor everyone else all of the time, but I don’t think that’s any reason to feel personally offended. Look man, you’re a Christian, Jack’s a Deist, and I’m an atheist, but we’re all here because we agree on a bunch of other things and I’d be willing to bet that we’re all fairly decent guys. That’s pretty cool, I think. I mean, that’s a pretty big tent – more inclusive than exclusive. I think that also says a lot about people who come here. They don’t need constant reinforcement about their own personal beliefs and ideals. Just my two cents.

        • @ Insidious. I thinks MsH knows exactly what freedom is, and chose not to listen anymore

  4. Contact Sen. Roy Blunt via Web Form.

    Washington, D.C. Office:
    260 Russell Senate Office Building,
    District of Columbia 20510-2503
    Phone: (202) 224-5721
    Fax: (202) 224-8149

    Kansas City Office: (more district offices)
    911 Main St., Suite 2224
    Kansas City, Missouri 64105
    Phone: (816) 471-7141
    Fax: (816) 471-7338

      • You know when I was told that in Catholic school I asked why I should fear a God that loves me, the teacher got mad because she had no answer and sent me to the principal, she sent me to the Monsignor (senior priest at a church) because she had no answers, the Monsignor kindly lectured me on the wisdom of God and the gifts of the Holy Spirit etc but he had no real answer.

        Hence I have decided for me the beginning of wisdom is the loss or any and all irrational fears, including fear of my own creator.

        • I didn’t fear my dad because he was an imperfect being. I feared him because I loved him and did’t want to disappoint him. Maybe we were just raised differently.

        • I didn’t reply because I didn’t read it yet. There is no pity party dude, it is just my view. As for humility, properly channeled as not to be an excuse for inaction it is a valuable commodity in a man or a woman for that matter. To me though the beginning of wisdom is curiosity. We just disagree don’t get all snooty about it. Like I said those who are believers need to realize that others who are not should not be forced into silence anytime a faith issue comes up.

          I feared my father because again he wasn’t perfect that meant he could make mistakes which makes perfect sense if you think about it. I loved him as I feel any boy loves his father and while I wanted to make him proud it wasn’t fear of disappointment that drove that. Fear is a negative emotion, I have never had much use for emotions like fear and hatred. Anger is something to this day I need to work on, it is negative as well, yet righteous anger is a driving force for good, the same can’t be said for fear and hatred.

          By the way when it came up in school it wasn’t the Proverb version it was the seven gifts of the holy spirit which are,

          Fear of the Lord

          Given the first is understanding I find it totally reasonable to ask the question “why should I fear a all powerful, all knowing and perfect God who loves me”?

          The only answer I ever found came in Deism, the answer was, I shouldn’t fear God and fear of God isn’t a gift at all.

      • @ Jack, My dad loved me while he was living and I knew he loved me but I did fear him. Maybe this doesn’t relate to you as you were raised. As you know in the Bible we are refered to as children. Everyone will fear God, and it doesn’t matter if you believe in Him or not.

        • When I was young I did fear my dad, because he is an imperfect being. God we are to believe doesn’t suffer from that limitation.

        • I didn’t fear my dad because he was an imperfect being. I feared him because I loved him and did’t want to disappoint him. I noticed you had no comment for Insidio’s comment “humility is the beginning of wisdom.” You just have a problem with Solomon comment in Proverbs. Sounds like you are still having a pity party from grade school. Goodbye Jack

  5. I find the ‘golden rule’ to be a pretty good way to judge how to approach and treat others, and kind of a way to sum up libertarianism.

    Basically asking myself (before acting)..

    Would I like someone else to..
    – aggressively push their ideas on me
    – take x from me
    – force me to do x -or- try and coerce me into doing x
    – lambast me for not believing x

    Personally, I find aggressive ‘promotion’ of any ideology to be a sign of either insecurity (the person is having a ‘crisis of faith’ and needs someone to externally validate their belief) or ego attachment to the idea (their sense of identity depends in part to their identification with the idea(s)).

    Attachment = inflexibility. Better to hold any belief very loosely, as everyone has had/has quite a few beliefs that have been proven wrong over the years. Humility is the beginning of wisdom.


  6. @ Freedom in the 50 States: In all the discussions online and in all the states mentioned positively on the podcast, not once has Missouri been mentioned, even in a top ten list. That puzzles me since it aught to be in at least someone’s top ten list considering that it has ranked pretty high in the Freedom report, both 2009 and 2013: Overall = #7, Fiscal = #9, Personal = #8. The downside is of course roy blunt and Aunt Claire in Washington and the do nothing clowns in Jefferson City. The republican clowns in our capitol have a veto-proof majority and choose to do nothing! Also, the regulatory system for dairy is pretty harsh, a friend of mine spent thousands of dollars establishing a small gelato factory. And the dairy board and Attorney General are trying to go after raw milk pretty hard. But overall we should be in some top ten lists.

  7. Why do you assume I did not read it? I “seriously” assure you I did read it.

    It seems to me that your “vulgar language disclaimer” is simply an “excuse” for you to continue to choose to use vulgar language and also to continue to reassure yourself that there will therefore be no consequences for your choice. However, the truth is this: there is never a “good reason” to use vulgar language.

    Many website business owners want to receive feedback on why a person is unsubscribing from their websites in order to learn how to become better business owners. It is too late apparent that you are not one of these…..I have simply wasted both my time and your time. 🙂


    • @MsH

      I think you’re missing the point. You’re not Jack’s mom.

      Jack doesn’t need an ‘excuse’ to use vulgar language. Its his right to say anything he likes, particularly on his own website. And like any other adult, if there are ‘consequences’ for his behavior, that’s his own business.. he’s still free to choose what to say and how to say it.

      He obviously understands that SOME PEOPLE find ‘vulgar language’ offensive, which is why, out of courtesy, he bothered to include a disclaimer.

      If you don’t want to hear that sort of language, and feel its ‘changing you’ you are free to not listen to it.

      He’s free, you’re free.. no problems here.

    • i.e. – you’re getting offended at someone else’s exercise of freedom.. and telling them to cease and desist.

      makes me laugh 🙂

    • It isn’t an excuse, no one forces you to listen to TSP this is how I conduct business. You know what I didn’t bust my ass for 20 years to get where I am so I could live my life the way someone else thinks I should.

      Also since words seem to be important to you please notice I said,

      “Seriously go read the disclaimer again.”

      So you are worried about the word shit yet ignore the word again?

      I knew you read it, I suggested a second time. Like Insidious said I don’t think some get this whole liberty thing.

      Additionally I don’t consider words like shit or ass vulgar you do and you choose to. Seriously who the hell decides that crap, excrement and manure are all okay but shit is bad? If you watch network TV during prime time at all today you hear tons of things I would NEVER say on the air, some I would never say with a bunch of drunk old military guys in fact. But they get away with it because they don’t use “curse words”.

      Like I said I don’t know who decided which words were to be censored but whoever it was doesn’t get to run my life.

      Here is another little important component about word meaning. An excuse is something you give to a person who has some sort of authority over you. Like a boss when a project isn’t done. My disclaimer isn’t an excuse as people like you have no such authority I require no such excuses. I just put it up there so listeners could be informed.

    • Um let me add to this based on your statement of “I have simply wasted both my time and your time.”

      Um hello, McFly, helllloooo, that is why I have the disclaimer. I refer you to this part,

      “Please do not email me and state things such as “if you continue to use foul language I won’t listen to your show anymore”. I respect your opinion and hope you can look past the occasional adult word from time to time even if it is not what you would choose to use yourself. The show will not be altered though to accommodate individuals that take issue with such language. If you want sterilized and censored speach there are many sources of it.”

      That is why there is a disclaimer, so you won’t waste your time pushing a string.

    • I believe I am a good person to respond to this post. I have been married 30 years and in that 30 years my wife can count on one hand how many times she has heard me cuss. It is just something that is not part of my language. When I am among friends and we are talking I can only remember one person besides myself who I never heard cuss. All of those I consider my best friends cuss in casual conversation. It is just the way it is and if I limited myself to only those who do not cuss I would be living in a sterile bubble.
      I enjoy the podcast and I really think it is like listening a friend in casual conversation. I focus more on the message and the fact that Jack says what he believes. I am glad you stand up for what you believe and I know you will not read this because you said good bye in Spanish. I will continue to support Jack just like I support my friends even though their language is sometimes colorful.

  8. Apple uses the same internal components as PC systems. The best thing you can do is build your own system from components. EASY use a screw driver and plug in a couple of plugs.

    Then choose your OS. Windows, IOS, or Linux.

  9. The whole idea of “bad words” is ridiculous. So a combination of letters is called “bad” and another combination is called “acceptable”. What makes the combination of s-h-*-t actually bad? How does that combination become bad?

    Along those same lines, when someone says “I am offended by that”, what is it that became offended? Can someone please present forward what became offended? Where is it? What is it? Can it be seen or touched? Does it really exist?


  10. To all of you:
    I do not listen to the survival podcast to cast aspersions about the character of Jack or anyone else that makes comments in this forum. Jack has alot of qualities that I lack– I think he has good leadership skills and inspires others to try to learn how to survive better in this crazy world we live in and to make sense of the chaos that is the nature of everything around us. For that I am grateful. There has never been a forum that is better at discussing survival in a pragmatic and sensible way until his podcasts started. There is alot of focus on guns and surviving against the mutant hordes at the end of the world, but I’m hoping that isn’t us. There has ever been anyone I know of that has ever done such in depth research into real solutions for food production and permaculture for survivalists anywhere. It’s always about beans, bunkers, bullets, and some kind of warlord horde that tries to gain control of the lawlessness that exists after the end of time.

    My comments I made sounded so harsh and critical, and I’m extremely sorry about that. I just wanted to make a statement about what I see is the real problems we face in this country, and it is a country we all care about and we are at a loss to come up with a solution to end the decline of a nation that is slipping into mediocracy because we can’t work together. The strength of America has always been our ability to adapt, improvise, and overcome. I don’t know where we lost our way.

    • That’s nice Mysterion. Why are apologizing? You made some great points. Just know that Jack is never going to address the fact that it’s corporate control of government, not government itself, that is the problem with this country. The government, after all, is the democratically elected voice of the people. However, a corporate takeover has occurred in the past 20 years. “Citizen’s United” is the biggest threat to personal liberty in modern history, yet I’ve barely, if ever, heard it mentioned on this program. Like I said, Jack has his worldview & is convinced he is absolutely right. You’re not going to change his mind in the least. & if you think complementing him is going to get him to consider your opinion, you’re wrong – even though they are also good points & I share your admiration for those qualities he possesses. Rest assured, he’s written you off as an indoctrinated socialist.

      • Actually no I haven’t, I have written you off. Why are you still here? I mean you are welcome to continue your praise of the wonderful O and extoll the virtues of big government but didn’t you way you were never going to comment again?

    • There is one thing Mike is right about (gee finally) and that is you don’t need to apologize. Just because I feel your support material is liberal agenda opinion vs. hard factual proof of anything doesn’t mean I am mad at you for your opinion.

      I would encourage you to dig deeper into the path you are on and see where it leads when logic and facts on the ground are applied to it.

      Like what happens to the uninsured rate in Texas when you remove illegal aliens from the rolls along with 18-30 year old single males that could get coverage and choose not to. I would also say look at the effect of insuring the uninsured at OUR EXPENSE.

      On right to work, wow again lets look at the 10 states with the highest unemployment rates and the 10 with the lowest.

      2. NEBRASKA
      4. VERMONT
      5. WYOMING
      6. IOWA
      7. OKLAHOMA
      9. HAWAII
      10. UTAH

      Only two are not right to work states and both have a reason for high employment, it is called massive tourism. Those would be Hawaii and Vermont of course.

      Ten worst states for unemployment rates?

      41 SOUTH CAROLINA 8.6
      42 INDIANA 8.7
      43 MICHIGAN 8.8
      44 NEW JERSEY 9.3
      45 NORTH CAROLINA 9.4
      46 RHODE ISLAND 9.4
      47 ILLINOIS 9.5
      48 CALIFORNIA 9.6
      49 MISSISSIPPI 9.6
      50 NEVADA 9.6

      Now four of them ARE right to work states but the other 6, are true union through and through. Nevada has been hard hit by the recession as their entire economy in the end is based on gambling. They are never on this list during “good times”. Mississippi is one of the poorest states in the nation and their high unemployment is a reflection of other factors.

      If you want a more in depth picture consider state income and corporate income taxes along with right to work and the picture becomes clear, very clear.

      Lastly, it wouldn’t matter to me if non right to work “worked better” by stats even though it doesn’t. The alternative is forced unions, that is immoral to me. There are unions in Texas you just can’t force me to join one. I don’t think most people understand how that works.

      • Ok Jack,
        Let’s try to understand where all the massive debt we have came from, and let’s examine the decline of the middle class. The ideas of Ronald Reagan and the economics of Reagan are two entirely different things. The massive debt we have encurred started wuth the spending policies of the Reagan years. Contrary to popular opinion, if you examine the time period between Truman and Carter, What you will find is that all those presidents in between that time period reduced the national debt as a percentage of GDP

        from 123% of GDP down to 32.5% of GDP. In other words, the size of the national debt shrunk because of economic growth. There really wasn’t a concerted effort to eliminate the debt by spending cuts like conservatives falsely say is the problem. Spending creates growth. PERIOD. To grow the GDP, it requires spending–consumers buy products, businesses invest with expenditures to grow their companies, and government also spends money because the size of the economy itself is growing, and with growth government also has to to grow to accomodate and take care of things like infrastructure. You cannot promote growth without the size of government itself growing.

        For example, if you have an increase of 100,000 people, what are the responsibilities of government for a city with a population of 100,000 people? You cannot just freeze spending for government and expect to have a government to function with growth rates like that. This is something that never seems to dawn of minds of coservatives. There is a complete disconnect when you promote policies of economic growth and at the same time, freeze the size of government, because it cant keep up with the needs of the populace.

        So let’s get back to reagan. His economic advisor was Milton Friedman, the Nobel prize winning monetarist libertarian economist. Did he ever balance a budget? NO. The spending under Reagan exploded, the debt soared, and this bogus idea about cutting taxes grows the economy did not produce the surplus revenues promised by this theory. Yes, revenue grew in size, but as a percentage of GDP we didnt collect more revenue, we actually had a drop in revenues.

        In fact, the only times we have ever had growth of revenues that created budgetary surpluses were right around 1943, when revenues exceeded 23% of GDP, and the time period after Clintons term of office, after he left office but before the budget was under the control of the Bush administration, and thattime period we have revenues as a percentage of GDP at close to 21% of GDP. This was the time when it as projected we would have budget surpluses as far as the eye could see….and then Bush spent like a drunken whore on crack in a liquor store on halloween.

        Of course, the credit card that Reagan started using was shiny and new back then and the debt had just strted to accumulate so everyone felt like we were wealthy and deficits didnt matter. I felt so swimmingly well that Bush’s daddy also spent money profusely, flowing Reagans’s example on how to use a credit card with panache. By the time he was done, Bush’s daddy had to raise taxes after telling the country to read his lips, and then Perot came around and told us exactly what was going to happen with NAFTA and the future of america, and of course his warnings went unheeded and people percieved him as an oddball, but enough people beleived in him and split the conservative vote and Clinton was elected. Then Newt made his contract on America, worked with Clinton, and got some fiscally responsible policies for a time, but then the Shrubinator was elected and we know the rest of the story.

        • Great lesson in economics. I never knew Ronald Reagan was the cause of so many problems. Could you please explain to me how we had double digit inflation and double digit interest rates when Jimmy Carter was President. You left that out of your history lesson.

        • @Mysterion –
          You kind of lost me here. The source of governmental debt and the decline of the middle class have the same source? (deficit spending)

          To the deficit/debt:
          If its true that tax revenues average 18.1% of GDP regardless of tax policy.. then to stay within budget your expenditures plus future liabilities can’t exceed 18.1% of GDP.


          If you look at this: (sorry, don’t have time to find a better graph)

          Then from about ’74 to ’98 ‘we’ were overspending.. with a small break until ’03.. and then in ’08 BOOM!

          On the decline of the middle class:
          If you were in the market for a widget.. and found it offered at one store for $5 and at another store for $100, which one would you buy?

          Unless you were a masochist, you’d choose the one for $5.

          Well that’s exactly how labor works. Employers are in the market for labor. If they can get it for $5, why pay $100?

          But they need to buy AMERICAN LABOR or they’re destroying the country!

          Well, why not same the same for the purchasers of the companies products? If a consumer doesn’t want to support job outsourcing, they can buy american made products.. exclusively.

          But that’s not the way consumers work.. just like employers.. they want their goods for the cheapest price.. and if labor is a component of that price.. guess where it will be manufactured?

          I realize this is all simple stuff..

          So the only way to ‘protect’ American middle class labor is to make it illegal (trade embargo), or expensive (tariffs) to purchase foreign labor. And the only problem with that (besides libertarian violations) is that the immediate response is for everyone else to do the same.. and your global market goes away.. everyone squats in their own countries and you have a global depression.

          So.. is it ‘fair’ for someone to work for less money than you will? Should a law be passed requiring you to buy the $100 widget instead of the $5 one?

          If you say ‘hell yeah’ then that $100 will be in OUR economy instead of the $5 going to theirs! You might want to think about it a little more.. because a translation would be.. your cost of living goes up 20x.. and I really doubt your wages will.

        • @Mysterion,

          One PLEASE learn to use the return key and get some space between every three sentences or so, I have fixed that for you again. In a narrow blog comment not doing so makes a comment all but impossible to read with out a headache.

          Two if you are going Regan this, Carter that, etc. you are wasting your time and not getting anywhere with me. You clearly believe in the dichotomy and I don’t, I don’t like any president we ever had in my entire living individual history. Even Ike which I had an affinity for once I dug deeper I found to be just as bad as any modern president.

          You want to blame Regan for the Debt when Bush II outspent him? You want to blame Regan for the debt when Obama outspent Bush II 8 year “reckless and unpatriotic spending” in only 4 years? Do you really want to make that case. Oh by the way it was Obama that said Bushes spending was unpatriotic. Do you really believe any of this bullshit?

          The president doesn’t control the economy or even spending, the banks and the corporations do. I can’t have meaningful debate because you are

          1. Acting like I am a republican when I am a libertarian.

          2. Under the belief that who you vote for really matters

          Given that there is nothing to respond to. You act like the currency wasn’t devalued and the debt didn’t grow from 1913-1980. You act like the income tax doesn’t exist to fund the Federal Reserve. You are having an argument with me based on a believe that I believe something I do not believe at all.

          Next you will tell me Clinton balanced the budget and I will just give up this line of discussion.

  11. Great show Jack.

    I work in the finacial sector. I find every discussion about the world shift away from the dollar/to gold-silver etc. very insightful and ominous.

    The Walmart thread was dead on too. Stock/economy has hit a total disconnect.

  12. Jack you just keep doing what you’re doing. If someone can’t handle the occasional shit, damn or hell, then maybe they need to go put on their big boy panties and Have Doc K give them a scrip for suck it up! It’s not like you’re dropping giant F-bombs or JC’s and GD’s.

    I’m a new listener and love everything you’re doing. Just one question. In this particular podcast you sometimes sound like you are fighting off an old accent. Like you are a former New Jersey mob boss and the old accent is coming through. Did you just watch Good Fellas the night before or what?

  13. Wal-Mart’s woes aren’t just because of understaffing in the stores. The heart and soul of their operations are their trucks. Speaking from the inside of the trucking industry, a Wal-Mart driving position is a Mecca for anyone who doesn’t have a day-cab semi. Their pay pushes six figures. They’re treated extremely well on a personal level. So what’s the problem? They can’t find–at least at the DC I have info on–qualified drivers enough to fill the slots they have, and they’re facing more retirements yet again. It’s an aging workforce in an industry that is lacking in drivers that can cross that high-quality hire bar that Wal-Mart sets. It’s not just Wal-Mart, either. The company I drive for (and the one I drove for previously, so I’m looking at a 14-year span) has similar problems, and that in a job that can get you 70-80k and home every morning.

    When everyone goes to college, nobody wants driving jobs. And folks, if you bought it, a truck brought it. Cheesy but true.

  14. Speaking of cuss words. A teacher told me this story years ago. I have no idea if it’s true or not but it sounds like a reasonable explaination of the origins of the word shit. At one time dried dung was used as a fire/fuel source. It would be crated up and stuck in the hold of a ship for transit to other places. Water would seep into the crate filled area of the ship and the dried dung would get wet. It would then begin to ferment and produce methane. To prevent this problem they started writing SHIT on the side of the crates. It stood for Ship High In Transit. Which is why dung/poop or however you want to call the stuff got it’s nick name.
    The same teacher also told us a story about how flipping the middle finger got to be known as the “screw you” gesture that it is today. But I’ll save that story for another time 🙂

    • Not sure about that but it is plausible.

      Here is one along the same lines I know is true. Many times you will see a truck that says FISH on it in all caps, logically you would think it is carrying seafod and well fish as in pescado muertos for those that habla espanol.

      Thing is it has nothing to do with fish, though it might include fish, it means


      So your story rings at least possibly true.

      • Jack,

        You Libertarians act like spoiled kids when people don’t agree in your phony plan to save america by collapsing the government and the economy because of masochistic ideas you have about how we need to be punished for our spending and how the Fed is evil and a private bank probably run by a secret star chamber that want to take over the world.

        You, Ron and Rand Paul, and Paul Ryan are not economists. None of you even understand econ 101. Now you are going to take your toys and go home in a huff because you don’t like what I’m saying. Everything I said in my first post wasn’t opinion, it was fact, and that you are in denial of the facts about the real quality of life in the South has got to stick like a bone in your throat.

        The income tax doesn’t exist to fund the Fed. This shows exactly how much you don’t know about the economy or why the Fed exists or what it’s function is. Go take some economics classes now that you have this spare time on your hands, and then take some Sociology and Poli Sci and International Relations classes too. That will round out your lack of comprehension about the real problems we face in this country and globally, and maybe then you will understand something about poverty in the south and its effect on wages and standard of living in that region, and how the corporate gangsters that run America have driven this country to the brink of disaster.

        You aren’t qualified to talk about the economy because you don’t have a clue in a house full of evidence and smoking guns because you are blind and deaf to what is really happening. The conservative side of America has closed their minds to science, to education, and to the majority of Americans that have been destroy by the greed of the corporatists. Just go walk around Michigan and ask all those people out of work how they like globalism.

        I’m done.

        • 🙂

          I know this is addressed to Jack.. but I’m butting in a little.

          Presenting someone with information they’re already aware of (in the sense of having heard it) is very unlikely to change their mind.

          Unless they’ve recently had a life altering experience, or reached a new level of consciousness/understanding.

          If they haven’t, its just noise. They’ve already heard it, examined it to their satisfaction, and made up their mind.

          So the only way you’re going to ‘convince’ someone of a different conclusion is to either present the information in a genuinely new way, or introduce new evidence.

          And when I say evidence, I mean evidence. Not a ‘conclusion’ drawn from a disputed ‘fact’.

          This is of course always IMO, and like any opinion, I don’t expect people to believe it, just because I said it.

          [On the ‘presenting conclusions’ part, to clarify.. this is like the Walmart story. The evidence is that Walmart’s sales numbers are down, and some of their shelves are empty. The reported ‘conclusion’ was that this was because of the recession and people being too impoverished to even shop at Walmart (and in some places, as evidence of the collapse of the global supply chain). Now Jack is suggesting an alternative conclusion, that poor sales and empty shelves are actually evidence of poor customer service, and under staffing.]

        • @Insidious you are not butting in you are doing me a great service, explaining something I have said so many times that I often can’t be bothered to say again. I am not “ignore facts” I am ignoring opinions I have already heard.

          Studies are particularly pointless, the person running a study can’t skew the results easily enough and human bias causes it to happen.

          I pretty much ignore studies even from groups I ignore, I look at results and I also consider what is ethical. Again I don’t care if someone is fat and I don’t care if limiting sodas acutally makes less fat people, it IS NOT MY BUSINESS and I consider it totally unethical to tell another person what the can or can’t have for fucking lunch. People like Mike and Mysterion seem to feel the end justifies the means, the history of such things often ends in a lot of blood shed, misery and starvation.

        • @Mac that is a sticky wicket isn’t it. All these studies that say we suck so bad and still the migration continues. Those are real numbers we can’t lie about, we actually have records of such things due to things like Driver’s Liscences, the income tax and how many seats each state gets in Congress, so we know the move is occurring in spite of the Southern Poverty Law Center saying we suck so bad, how is that possible?

          You want to know?

          5th best state in the union to find a job in right now
          Lots of jobs in all walks of life from Ag to Tech and everything in between
          Home to some of the HQs of many of the largest companies in the nation
          Deregulated (for real) electrical service providing some of the lowest energy costs in the nation
          Friendly people and if you want yuppie shit you can find that too
          Look at what kind of house 250K will buy in Texas
          Freedom from state income taxes, no state corporate taxes either
          Lower then average property taxes

          I mean we suck and all because some people (many that shouldn’t even be here) don’t have insurance so that just ruins everything else right? We have apparently fat people getting in everyone’s way. Now the fat problem I won’t deny but I see far more fat people in cold climates then warm ones. Come on down, I will put you up for a week, show you around, we can go down to the range and shoot some dangerous guns with a bunch of other people that have them and no one will shoot anyone else I promise.

          It will be fun and you can see for yourself why so many are coming here. Again they can lie about what it is like to live here but they can’t lie about the number of people coming can they? Something is amiss is it not?

        • @ Mysterion – You’re right. You live in the real world – unfortunately, Jack lives in Jack’s world – because he saw a few fat people in Pennsylvania, he thinks studies showing people in the south are obese are wrong or biased. (apparently, he also hasn’t gotten the memo that obesity is bad for your health) Because HE didn’t want health insurance when he was younger, he thinks ALL the uninsured in Texas don’t have it because they don’t want it. To him, THAT’S why his state has the highest rate of uninsured people – couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that the yokels who live there elect pro-corporate politicians in the name of “personal liberty” who then relax regulations that would otherwise require employers to provide health insurance for workers…

          By the way, an uninsured Texan is much more likely to have his assets (including gun collections) seized by HOSPITALS at their time of death, after a mere week of cancer treatment wipes out an entire lifetime’s worth of acquiring assets.

          I’ve wasted a lot of time trying to get through to him, & just recently decided to give up. You’re right to call him on his lack of education – but he’ll just counter with “colleges are just institutions of liberal indoctrination”. See how he operates? Don’t bother.

          I’m sure he didn’t even open any of those links you took the time to find. We have facts & studies, he counters with anecdotal evidence. Please. You wouldn’t know it by listening to him, but he is a very unreasonable man. Just know that his listeners heads will explode when Texas goes blue in the 2020 Presidential election:

          I’m out as well.

        • Oh you are wasting time is right. Frankly go out and start complaining for a 3rd term for the big O, it will be a more productive use of your time. As I said I don’t care who is and isn’t fat it isn’t my damn business.

        • LMAO dude how the hell did Paul Ryan get lumped in there with Ron Paul? Ron knows enough about the economy to have schooled big Ben over and over and over on the congressional floor. Ryan is a GOP typical assclown with a few “different” talking points.

          As for your faith in vaulted economists THEY DID THIS, they are the ones that pushed all of this, THEY CREATED IT, it was economists who created the mess we are in, of course they defend the system they created.

          Yes the income tax exists to fund the fed, of course it does that is why both were created at the same time in history. I guess you also don’t believe the Fed was created by the top bankers on Jekyll Island though the records of it exist. Or do you concede that and still believe those bankers were good guys that just wanted to help out.

          Frankly if you stop defending government long enough to do some real research you will find that new debt + interest on said debt = the personal income tax with in about 1-5% over the last 100 years. If you then apply an understanding of current monetary creation via fractional reserve banking fueled by top level monetary creation via national borrowing you come up with a pretty clear picture.

          If you think I am not qualified to talk about the economy I have a solution for you, don’t listen to me. Ignore the fact that analysts like Greg Mannirino and financial experts that teach the people inside the system like Mike Gaisor have stated that I in fact do know what I am talking about and go listen instead to the people you value so much who created this mess.

          Go ahead listen to those that legalized derivatives and have created a “financial weapon of mass destruction” with them. Listen to people that have devalued the dollar by 98% in 100 years who tell you that was the plan, still is the plan, always will be the plan and it will always work. Listen to people that say it is okay to have a 16 trillion dollar debt and know it will be 24 trillion in 7 years, sure those guys have initials after their names it proves they are smart right. Listen to people defend a system where in 8 years the interest payments on our debt will cost more then the entire department of defense, those guys really know their shit.

          See this is your problem, you go tossing Rand Paul and Paul Ryan at me like those guys are the people I am defending. I am most certainly not. The only actual libertarian in your list is Ron, I will put his economic knowledge up again just about anyone’s. You sir though are tilting at windmills! You are assigning to me arguments I have not made so you can argue said points with nothing but a ghost! You act like I would place any faith in “the Ryan plan”, his draconian cuts are a joke just like the same so called cuts in the sequester, cuts they ignore with an end around and include the Monsanto Protection Act with when they do.

          Hey dude did you bother listening to this

          If you did how are you still willing to argue inside a false dichotomy that exists solely to divide us and keep us from asking questions like, where the hell is our 16 trillion dollars? How can you still argue if Clinton or Bush was better or worse? The game is rigged, it was rigged from the very beginning. The people with the power of monetary creation run everything and they are not elected officials.

  15. Thanks for the link. Interesting to see where some of the words that people consider cuss words originally come from. The shit story was told to me when I was in high school which was quite some time ago. This was back long before the internet so there was no way to quickly verify the story. Now it makes me wonder if the tale the teacher told about flipping the middle finger was true. And, in a matter of seconds, the all knowing Google has deliverd an answer. It appears the teacher may have been partially right though it may be a legend. See the archer story in the Medieval era section.Personally, no matter where the words originally comes from, I know that hearing a few of them certainly won’t make me stop listening to the podcast. I enjoy the show and, now that my husband is finally a bit more open to the idea of prepping, I’m sure he will too.

  16. This easter thing is like, riding a bike I taught the kids to ride a bike like i was taught. hold on peddle and watch where your going.NO TRAINING WHELLS. HELL WHEN I WAS A KID WE DIDN’T EVEN HAVE HELMETS!!!!! Since the head is important i put a helmet on em so they don’t crack their head and become stupid. I hate stupidity so protecting the head is important.

    Take the training wheels off you can learn to ride in a day!!!

  17. Recently, a friend of mine was telling me about a guy, a 19yo, who committed suicide because he lost his job. I couldn’t help but think that society’s need to “protect” kids from challenges is partly to blame. With the ball games where everyone gets a trophy or the egg “gathers” where everyone wins, we teach kids that they don’t have to work because someone’s gonna come around and make it all “fair”.

    Now, as I kid, I didn’t think it was “fair” that I couldn’t see, but if my parents (and everyone else) would have done everything for me to level the playing field, I wouldn’t have learned how to take care of myself. I wouldn’t have learned how to take care of my family. I wouldn’t have learned how to live independently because I would have been waiting on someone to do everything for me.

    There’s nothing more rewarding than triumph over a real challenge. We’re taking that experience away from our kids, and we’re breeding kids who kill themselves because they lost a job at 19. It’s SO sad.

  18. Jack,

    I found it interesting that you think Christians want to tell “you” what they think without listening to you in return. I think it’s a matter of perspective, because in my experience, it seems to go the absolute other way. Maybe it’s just the folks I know, but so many folks will express their opinions (as if they’re facts and with as much hostility as you can believe), but they won’t allow me to express my opinions in return. They resort to name-calling and nastiness, and I just don’t get it.

    See, I’m a Catholic Christian, and as a Catholic Christian, I have a certain idea about how I should be living my life. I raise my kids with those morals, and I try to live my faith.

    People seem to have a hard time wrapping their heads around how I can be a Catholic Christian AND a Libertarian, so what always ends up happening is people attack my religion but won’t let me get a word in edgewise to defend my “side”. I think some of it has to do with folks’ assumptions that they know what I’m going to say, but they don’t.

    It truly does go both ways. There are plenty of non-Christians who’re just as forceful about pushing their agenda without allowing dialog from the other side. I suppose it’s one of the reasons that I USUALLY just follow my mom’s rule about discussing religion and politics. 🙂

    • @Sharah, what I mean by that is most Christians that I make the mistake of discussing religion with and man is it usually a mistake do not want to actually hear why people like me don’t take the bible as fact. They don’t really want to discuss why I should put faith in a God that killed every man, woman and child on the planet except one family. They don’t want to discuss why the only man worth saving in Sodom was willing to give his daughters to the crowd to be raped and was still seen as worthy in God’s eyes. They don’t want to discuss why this God gave laws to stone disobedient sons, etc. And I could go on but I won’t.

      The typical response is “well Jesus came and changed that” or some version thereof. Sorry but that is a no go for people like me, I can’t just ignore it all. I can’t ignore that the God of Christianity ordered every man, woman and child put to the sword in the city of Jericho or that he gambled on Job’s life and made a bet with Satan and let Job suffer greatly just to make a point.

      Now I personally don’t think any of this happened but if it didn’t well, then I don’t believe the rest of the story either and very seldom do Christians wish to discuss that from any angle other then defending it and trying to save people such as me from ourselves.

      I want nothing to do with a God that would murder children or any race, sect or creed or order the murder of the same said people. Nothing to do with a God that would kill the first born of every person in Egypt except those who smeared blood on a door.

      Now that said there is much to be said for modern Christianity as a moral compass but I don’t believe for one second that you or I or my son or any of the people I know are so vile and loathsome that we deserved to be put on a cross and the only way we are to be redeemed is for God’s son to take our place. You do and that is fine with me. I have no desire to take your faith from you or win in a debate about who and what God really is. You believe what you believe and I what I believe and I am fine with that, in my experience many (not all) Christians are offended by the types of things I just said.

      Frankly anyone offended by it is not very familiar with what is offensive. Nothing I said is untrue it is all in the Bible isn’t it? I didn’t say your are wrong to believe in your faith or that I hold it in anyway against you, just that I do not share your beliefs.

      Now if I get into the the Egyptian Book of the Dead, the God Horace or the phenomenon around the Southern Cross and the Winter Solstice people get really upset, that fact that it is true doesn’t matter it is only that they don’t like hearing it.

      May be my phraseology was wrong, it isn’t that Christians don’t want to discuss this stuff it is they don’t seem to want to hear the other side. They often don’t want to leave it alone either when you say, okay I am done with this. I really find these discussions to be more and more pointless. I am not going to change your mind and you damn sure won’t change my mind.

      Do consider this though, all of these threads here are not because I said Christan are wrong for their faith or that they should be Deists like me, they are simply because I said I am not a Christian and should not have your faith legislated onto me via the force of the state.

      • @Jack,

        I’m actually fascinated (and pleasantly surprised) by the fact that we actually agree on a lot more than we disagree on. And if you didn’t view it as “pointless”, I think I’d even enjoy a (private) discussion with you on this topic. 🙂

        It seems like you and I have very similar experiences in these kinds of discussions; we’re just getting it from the opposite side. And that’s all I was asking you to consider, actually. I didn’t think you said anything offensive.

        I think there are two reasons that people can’t have civil discussions about things like religion and faith. First, when you run into the hard heads who just spew by rote stuff that they don’t really understand, you’re destined to have all sorts of troubles. Stating the same point over and over (and usually louder and louder) doesn’t make it any more true or valid. In fact, I just tune people out when they get like that.

        And secondly, people tend to have problems with civil disagreement on any topic because they take it as some sort of an afront to their personhood. “You don’t see the world the way I do, so what you’re saying is I’m wrong, stupid,” or whatever.

        I’m one of those odd eggs who enjoys discussing contraversial topics with smart folks who don’t always agree. It’s not that I like a fight, ’cause that’s never what I’m looking for. I enjoy it because those kinds of discussions serve one of two purposes. Either they educate me OR they help me to solidify my own stance on a given issue.

        Regarding faith, I don’t evangelize. I hate it when folks try to do that to me. My faith is no secret though, and I seem to find myself having to remind people that I’m just as entitled to my opinion as they are to theirs. I wish I knew more folks who were comfortable agreeing to disagree. 🙂

        • @Sarah it is likely because you are Catholic and we share a similar back ground. The discussion is pointless though as it won’t “lead me home” or some such thing and if anyone is to leave a church of any sort it should be by their own self reflection not due to my persuasiveness.

          Keep in mind I live and have lived in the south much of my life. Baptist and Church of Christ are the dominant faiths here, they are generally less accepting of the things I just said then the typical Catholic.

          I think everyone is entitled to their opinions I just don’t want opinions legislated with state force.

      • Was looking for a good place to jump in, and this is as good as any. Hope its not seen as jumping in the middle of you & Sarah.

        I agree with most everything you say, and find myself quoting you often. But I am a Christian, protestant, and one of the only libertarian Christians I know. I believe in freedom, peoples right to live as they want. I balance that, as a Christian, with the understanding that its not the Democrats role to provide ‘charity’ and the Republicans to provide ‘morality’ as the church has delegated. Its my job, I believe, as a libertarian, you should be free, and as a Christian I should share the result of your decisions if your open to listening. Not like the guy who was shoving it down your throat. But knowing I am a minister people have asked me, well what do you think of gay marriage, marijuana, etc. I am not going to push it on anyone. Its disrespectful. But its also disrespectful to say I cant share my POV. I KNOW thats not what you stand for. But I have heard it said before, the phrase you said on this episode, “freedom from religion”. Now I understand your point, that you shouldn’t be forced to not drink, which was your next sentence, because someone else doesn’t believe they should. I couldn’t agree more. But most every time I have seen this phrase used, its been to silence the voice of the Christian, or Muslim, or whomever. The people I have seen use the phrase have always been open to any points, except one that might be critical to there point of view, EVEN if they started the conversation. It could not be clearer that the intent was to let you know that everyones opinion but yours was welcome. Not talking about someone pushing there POV on them, but them silencing the voice they have bias against.

        I get your point, and I do agree, but that phrase has always been used in my experience to shut up the guy that disagrees with them.

        • @Steve W — You have an excellent point regarding the “freedom from religion” phrase. It’s been my experience also that the phrase is used to end a conversation. Last year, for instance, one of my former classmates posted on FB that she hated having to go into a church to vote. She went on to say, “What about freedom FROM religion?” I’ve learned not to insert myself into these types of conversations, because when someone asks the questions, it’s always rhetorical. They don’t want to hear my answer.

          What gets me though is that the folks who use that phrase are usually uttering it as they trample MY rights. I don’t get offended when I see evidence of non-Christian religion in public. I wouldn’t get offended if someone wished me “Happy Passover” instead of “Happy Easter”. I’ve even had folks try to evangelize to me, and I’m not offended by those attempts if they let it go after I ask them to. (That’s happened rarely, but it has happened, and I’m always appreciative when they respect my boundaries.)

          In the end, it’s about respect, and like I said in a different thread, that’s one of the things I love about this community. We’re USUALLY more respectful and tolerant, even on the tough issues.

        • @Sarah you know it is a two way street right. Do you know how many pastors are preaching this exact phrase,

          “Freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom from religion”.

          Down in the south TONS OF EM, yes my friend freedom of religion must equal freedom from as long as from means from rule by or forced to comply. They don’t mean it the way you do Sarah. I just want you to understand this is why “the other side” seems adversarial. Both sides tend to lump in the worst of the other side with everyone on “the other side”, I put it in quotes there because it makes me sick that such an “other side” exists in 2013!

          Now your friend getting all bitchy because she has to go into a church to vote, my response is frankly tough crap for her! No one I am sure was handing out “How to get saved” leaflets or whatever they call those things. No one blessing her or praying over her against her will. If you don’t believe in God and have a problem going into a church I think you are mentally defective, seriously. Why, you don’t believe in God so a church is nothing but a building to you right? I mean come on.

          Realistically though this person likely met one to many of the other type of people and is just frankly sick of it. Just like the Christian convinced that there is a war against their faith because the Walmart greeter said happy holidays vs. Merry Christmas, they too have had one too many run ins with idiots on the other side.

          I see it on both sides. Churches rallying the troops for a gay marriage ban as though it is their damn business and at the same time some atheist group protesting the use of public property by a church group, are not the church members also the public?

          I don’t know may be I am weird but I just think everyone should leave each other alone to live their own lives their own way. If you try to tell me about Jesus and I am not in the mood and say so go tell someone else. If you think smoking pot or drinking beer is a sin who am I to tell yo it isn’t? That said unless I get into my car after a few Trappist Ales (made by monks ironically) it ain’t your business what I drink or for that matter smoke.

          But no we have pastors telling their flocks that it is their damn duty to enforce their beliefs with “righteous law” and simpleton atheists who claim to be enlightened protesting the use of a community center by a church to put on a holiday play about the birth of Christ. Do you know the first Tea Party I went to, very early on when it was all supposed to be about taxes and spending had a guy speak for 25 minutes and almost all of it was about “the sin of sodomy” at a flipping tea party! And so ended any involvement by Jack Spirko in the Tea Party, I may not have become an atheist that day but I became a political atheist that day.

          What so many don’t get is YOUR LEADERS LOVE THIS CRAP! While we fight about things that should not even be within the realm of government they squander our future, grow our debt, destroy our educational system, export our economy and insure that the majority of this country is not qualified for any job that requires phyical labor or independent thought we fight about religion, drug use and other things that in 2013 we should have learned our lessons about by now.

        • @Jack — You asked if I knew how many pastors preached that freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom from religion, and my honest answer is, “No.” I’ve only heard that phrase used in a slightly different way by atheists who’re offended by me practicing my faith.

          I can see how your experience would be quite different from mine. Living in the South, you run into stuff that I’ve never faced (when it comes to religion and the like.) Here in Indiana, you’ll still find us “clinging to our guns and our religion” (or whatever that dumb comment was), but running into the pushy, you-need-to-be-saved, my-way-or-the-highway folks just doesn’t usually happen. In fact, I can only think of one instance where it happened. A guy used to “preach” — LOUDLY — in a common area at a state college I attended, and he was impossible to ignore. With more than 30 THOUSAND “denominations” of Christianity though, it’s no wonder that we all run across something like this eventually.

          To be honest though, I DO think that freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom FROM religion. Before you start throwing tomatoes though, hear me out. 🙂 My freedom to be Catholic doesn’t trump a friend’s atheism. On the other hand though, her atheism doesn’t trump my Catholicism. A very small, very vocal minority of Americans want to cleanse their lives from anything that’s offensive, and that even means any symbol or expression of a person’s faith. Now, I’m not going to push my faith on anyone who doesn’t want me to, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to be told that simply existing is infringing someone else’s rights.

          What I mean is this. If you met me on the street, depending on how observant you were, you might guess that I am Catholic. I wear a small gold Crucifix, but it isn’t always visible. (It just depends on the shirt I’m wearing.) If you don’t happen to see my Crucifx though, and you don’t happen to overhear me saying something to my kids/companions/whoever that has some sort of religious connotation, you wouldn’t be able to point me out in a crowd and say, “There! SHE’S the one! SHE’S a Christian.” IF you saw my Crucifix though, or IF you heard me talking about my son’s First Communion, or IF you overheard me using God’s name with reverance, you don’t have the right to have all that sanitized from your experience. (Understand that I don’t mean you, Jack Spirko. I mean the person who’s offended by my Crucifix or overhearing the word “God” in a public.)

          See, in my experience, there are a lot more people like that than there are pushy, wanting-to-save-me, talking-in-tongues, laying-hands-on-me folks. It seems that a lot of folks think they have the right to exist without being offended, and since offense can be really subjective, we can’t please all of the people all of the time.

          Let me put it to you another way. A few years back, I remember a blind advocacy group pushing the government to change paper money so that us blind folks could tell the bills apart. I thought it was the stupidest thing I’d heard in my life because I didn’t think it was up to the government to make a change (that wouldn’t be an easy one) to placate a tiny minority of us folks who can’t tell a $1 bill from a $100 bill. If you’re an atheist and Christianity offends you, or if you’re a Mormon and Methodism offends you (or whatever), your right to extend your fist ends where the other guy’s nose begins. Disagree with it, express your opinion (respectfully) when asked, but if you don’t want to see a Crucifix, don’t look. If you don’t want to hear anything about my kids’ baptism or a friend’s “gay marriage”, don’t listen. Don’t insert yourself into a situation that wasn’t meant to include you even though it’s existing in a public space.

          I have a friend who HATES the color pink. I mean she hates it with a PASSION. When this friend goes out into public though, she doesn’t have the right to insist that nobody wear pink because if she sees pink, she’ll puke! She doesn’t have the right to be hateful to the pink-wearing folks who didn’t do anything other than wear a pink shirt that day. A lot of folks don’t understand that the religion thing is similar, and no matter what side you’re seeing it from, there has to be some tolerance and a little self-restraint.

          I couldn’t agree more with you when you say that the politicians love it when we “fight” over stuff like this. When we’re fighting over a private business’s display of a Christmas tree or Bill and John’s right to “marry”, we don’t notice the dude with the knife that’s headed for our kidney. The government likes us distracted, and they like us dependent, and I, for one, am not interesting in playing that game!

        • But see to me that is indeed a freedom from religion view you have. Like I said for some (many) that ain’t how they mean it. Freedom from religion is like freedom from debt to me. If you want debt freedom don’t borrow money, just because you hear about debt on the TV doesn’t mean you are not free from it.

          I am telling you there is a large block of evangelicals out there that feel it is their duty to enforce “righteous law” and they are being trained to think that way. Find a religious channel and listen to a few TV Mega Church preachers and you will get a feel for it soon enough.

        • @Jack — I love your analogy comparing debt freedom and religious freedom. Is that trademarked? 🙂

          And regarding the TV mega churches, I suppose I might watch them as an interesting study of culture, but I usually want to just yell at my TV. 🙂 I know that I’m a rare egg. Rarely does one find a person who’s as committed to her faith as I am while still respecting others’ boundaries and remembering that God gave us all free will for a reason. 🙂 Most folks don’t understand how I can separate my thoughts about right and wrong from a religious standpoint and my thoughts about those same issues from a government standpoint. One time, I got into a debate with my in-laws about gay “marriage”. They called me a bigot because I shared my view from the Catholic perspective. They were completely ignoring my view from the libertarian perspective, which at first glance seems contradictory, but it’s not. It’s totally possible for me to have a certain definition of marriage from a religious perspective, and then say on the other hand, “But I don’t think the government should be involved in ‘marriage’ at all.”

          People just like fighting. It’s like you always say (and I’m paraphrasing of course), but it’s something to the effect that people on opposite sides of an issue don’t realize how much they actually agree on. If we focused on common ground, we might actually be able to make some progress on the issues that really matter!

  19. @Jack — Agreed, agreed, and agreed! 🙂 When discussing religion with folks, my intention isn’t to “convert” them or “bring them home”. 🙂 I don’t like being treated that way, so why would I do it to other folks? And like I said earlier, it seems that we’re experiencing the exact same thing that, in reality, probably has nothing to do with religion at all. Folks like you and me, we’re used to thinking for ourselves. The critical thinking, the intelligence, the open-mindedness, and the willingness to be respectful even while disagreeing — those are the things will land us on the receiving end of more bigotry and nastiness than one can imagine. It just so happens that for some, religion can really bring out that worst bit in folks. Despite all that though, it still pays to keep an open mind. It still pays to be respectful, and I always TRY to do both (even when I think there’s a snowball’s chance in Hell of changing my mind. :D)

    And just to be clear, I’m not implying that you were trying to change my mind. I just thought it worth mentioning that what you experience isn’t that unusual. We Christians experience the exact same thing despite the teachings of Christ that tell us to love each other as we would love Him and that it’s never our place to judge.

    I just don’t get it. There are so many folks who think they’re doing such a great job at running their lives that they can manage running mine too. I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve got enough to handle just rowing my own boat. That’s what I love about the TSP community — I can row my boat and you can row yours. Isn’t personal liberty grand?

  20. You mentioned Brazil’s ethanol industry model possibly being introduced in Africa, and although I know they could be pushed into using sugarcane, I think that they won’t because what they have is better suited for ethanol. According to David Blume’s book “Alcohol Can Be a Gas” (pg. 79) sorghum cane (not including alcohol from cellulose) produces between 500-1000 gallons per acre and the grain produces another 125-256 gallons per acre.

    Sugar cane only produces 555 gallons per acre and they are more familiar with sorghum. The canes after being pressed could be used for bagasse (biomass) to fire the boilers to produce the heat needed for ethanol just like in the Brazilian model.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Brazil started importing sorghum!

    • Add to that I just learned there is a somewhat elusive thing known as perennial sorghum. Trying to track that down now. Now if that is a reality and it actually produces well, that is a game changer.

      It is also a non gluten grain.