Episode-989- Listener Feedback for 10-01-12 — 32 Comments

  1. What I have seen in economic collapses is not a complete breakdown. However, people often get caught between an oppresive government and organized crime whereby the government criminalizes guns, yet fails to control organzied crime. In such instances a lot of the points of mainprepper do apply, even if not in a complete wrol or ewrol the predators are always out and one must maintain constant vigilance.

    Thick walls able to stop bulets , burgular bars and a gated community are a minimum requirements but then there is the case when people leave the house and have too carry on with daily life. It’s crap shoot all around and in most cases a matter or time before honest people are hit hard for ransom.

  2. The government will take all we own – look at the story of Joseph in the bible, where he stored food for the coming severe drought, and then “sold” it back to the people which eventfully cost them all of their possessions. “Outside forces” like to mimic what was done successfully before. VERY difficult times ARE coming – and fast. First priority is to get yourself right with our Creator and accept the free gift of salvation offered by Jesus Christ, the one Son of God. What he said will happen in the last days is being played out before our eyes.

    • @Keith, you end times people KILL ME and you need to hear what I said today more then most. People have believed they were living in the end times since prior to when the end dried on John’s Revelation. All were disappointed, all were sure that the time they were living in was “different”, all were wrong.

      You better live ethically based on your faith and you better live with a strong dose of reality that God’s timelines are not man’s.

    • Dear @Modern Survival: The following is a heart felt plea that you take seriously the concerns raised in my original post. I really enjoy and learn much from these podcasts. I also believe that the folks who listen are good people who are, in fact, searching for truths which will help them. And, they are fellow Americans, and many veterans, about whom I care deeply. So, please set aside your pre-conceived ideas when you read this.

      Let me get this right: In response to a pod-cast about potential difficult times coming our way (i.e.: economic collapse WROL/EROL, our govt turning on its citizens, etc.,) you criticize, insult, and mock my comments on your logic that “People have believed they were living in the end times since prior to when the end dried on John’s Revelation. All were disappointed, all were sure that the time they were living in was “different”, all were wrong.”? Is that correct?

      I am an honor graduate of the United States Naval Academy – computer science major, Marine combat infantry officer (I have a TS/SCI clearance), and am a lawyer admitted in multiple states. I have spent hundreds of hours reading and researching the prophecies in the Bible. I still have not seen EVEN ONE criticism of the accuracy of the Bible which has proven to be true. And my comments are not derived exclusively from events happening in the U.S., but primarily from the events and alliances being formed in the Mid-East, for which the Bible speaks and is incredibly accurate. So, yes, I am looking at what the Bible says is “God’s timeline” for which all men will be affected. Why do you reject out of hand that His plan may be unfolding right before our eyes?

      Note: the US is not mentioned as part of the end times events – with the exception that the entire world will turn against Israel (Have you read the recent news about the current administration’s treatment of Israel?). I also note that the Bible prophecized that in the end days scoffers will say “Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.” (2Pet 3:3-4 KJV) – Looks like you have personally proven the Bible got that one right. 😉

      People have been concerned about all of the alleged concerns raised in the podcast since the founding of our country, and those concerns were, at least in major part, the basis for the Pilgrims looking for a new land hundreds of years prior. Our Founding Fathers were extremely concerned about both a central bank, and outside bankers gaining control over our country, as well as the Presidency morphing into a monarchy. Why do you think the Federal Reserve Act was pushed through in the middle of the night during holiday session when most of Congress were at home?? They were also extremely concerned about the government taking over our lives – thus the inclusion of the “Bill of Rights”. None of the catastrophic events in the podcast have happened – yet. (Note that the Founding Fathers attribute our rights to Blessing received from God.) So, why should people listen to, or respond to, the continued warnings in these podcasts? Doesn’t your logic argue against that? However, despite those inconsistencies, I think the podcasts are not only useful and helpful, but critical to our future prosperity, happiness, and security. Things do change over time and I hope you continue what you do.

      The point is that the ONLY thing that is certain in this life is death. I hope that you put some honest effort into trying to figure what happens at that point and thereafter. Where you – and members of your family – spend eternity after this world is the single most important question you have to deal with. I say it is the ONLY issue which really matters.

      It has been said that the only true barrier to finding the truth is the assumption that you already have it. So, what is your knowledge of Biblical end times prophecy? Why do you mock that about which you apparently have no real knowledge? I have heard criticisms on this podcast of people who criticize preppers and survivalists on the basis that they don’t really understanding what prepping or the real focus of the podcast is. Aren’t your criticism of my comments inconsistent with the standard to which others are held in these podcasts?

      To put this another way, I use the logic of Blaise Pascal’s wager: if I am wrong, one’s faith in Jesus will have no impact on what happens after death, you lose nothing more due to that belief. But if I am right, and you believe, you gain everything, but if you do not believe, you lose everything. Not a difficult choice if you look at it that way. The question is, are you looking?

      Please take the time to honestly look at how to prepare for and survive our real enemy – death. And that is a certain event in all of our lives.

      Thank you for your time and I hope you have the courage and intellectual honesty to post this response. Your listeners deserve that.

      • @Keith you lost me RIGHT HERE,

        ” I still have not seen EVEN ONE criticism of the accuracy of the Bible which has proven to be true.”

        Most theologians don’t even claim this.

        By the way personally I am a Deist like many of our founders, among them Franklin, Jefferson, Payne and yes even Washington.

        • @Jack – to adapt a theme from your podcast and make my own analogy; expecting a theologian to interpret The Bible is like expecting an economist to know how to run a business or expecting a financial advisor to give you worthwhile investing advice in the current economic conditions. They can’t because they are too invested in the system, or their professional education was limited to orthodoxy in their chosen field.

          @Keith. I am a combat experienced Marine Officer of 20yrs service, with several degrees and security clearances. How that is relevant to the hundreds of hours I have spent studying the Bible and Bible prophesy I don’t know.

          What I do know. The prophesy interpretation you describe is called Premillennial Dispensationalism. It is a theological interpretation that sprung up in the early 19th century and only really picked up steam in the early 20th century with the publication of the Scofield Reference Bible. Scofield’s interpretation is taught at all the modern Bible colleges like Bob Jones Univ. and Liberty Univ. and is the primary source informing the education of the leaders of the evangelical churches in the US. It is still in print as the Oxford Scofield Study Bible.

          The Book of Revelation describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple by the Romans at the end of the Jewish Wars circa A.D. 70. I see no reason to believe Scofield’s interpretation, which places this 70th week of tribulation at some unknown point two thousand years in the future, is valid. It completely contradicts the previous 1900 years of established Christian theological interpretation. Just because 1/3 of the US population affiliates with a church that now teaches this relatively modern interpretation does not make it valid. In fact if you research who Scofield was, how, where and with whom he did his scholarship, who provided his financial backing, and who his publisher was, you may become disturbed by what you find. There is a connection to contemporary events, but not for the reasons you might assume.

          Finally I find any orthodoxy that seeks to control or limit the thoughts of men as offensive and dangerous to the exercise of liberty. That puts organized religion in the same boat as the crypto fascists of both political parties that run our government and financial/banking system in my book.

  3. Nice reality check, Jack. Have you read “The Fourth Turning”? If not, I think you’d like it. It ties history to what we can expect soon and in a recovery.. If you have read it, I’d like to know what you think of it.

    • (nothing to do with today’s podcast but…)

      Daniel Suarez is the author of “Deamon” and “Freedom(TM)” – two very good books that I would recommend reading.

      • His new book ‘Kill Decision’ is on drones.. it may convince you to add a ‘goose gun’ to your preps..


        (highly recommend Daemon & Freedom for an alternative future vision, and a wake up call on how many of our defensive preps are ‘dumb’)

  4. Jack,

    You’re brilliant in your commentary and I agree much with your views. However, you have a bit of an in-the-box blind spot on our future threats. You seem to think the US Government will be our oppressor in the future – using our all-voluntary military to implement a boot on our neck (do you think enough military members would comply, or reenlist, or even enlist in the first place?!). You’re missing our foreign enemy threat and only focusing on the much more enemic domestic enemy threat. Look more clearly at the concerted efforts and machinations of Russia & China; they stay out of focus as much as they can in order to stay invisible, but here is our greater enemy and threat. A USA economic collapse will not bring a Napolitano, it will bring a Sun Tzu Ping exacting retribution on us. Don’t think America fan jot be militarily defeated by foes much more sinister than US governmental hacks who lack the stomach for real atrocity. This situation has been developing for decades via myriad plots of unrestricted warfare against us and it has all been indirect and using unwitting, agitated surrogate Muslim forces currently. You thing our government is run by puppet forces? My guess is that we would all be shocked to realize just how much geopolitical puppetry is in-going amongst our “former” foes, who are likewise the elements behind most UN & environment issues that find capitalism their favorite for. Expand your examination to wider circles and you may deem the greater threat to be that of foreign enemies far exceeding domestic ones. (By the way, if you haven’t alrwat read it already, “One Second After” makes quite a case for an EMP attack that indeed could turn off our lights for years.)

    Lastly, I’m retired Army and finished my 20-plus yr career as a recruiter. I know young recruit prospects’ thinking. They would not join in the numbers necessary to effect the goose step clamp down in society you speak of, nor would they reenlist. And just try to impose conscription, a draft, in modern American society – it would be DOA.

    I truly enjoy you presentation, though – first time hearing a whole program. You make tons of common sense on most topics.

    • Most will and they will believe they are doing the right thing and the reality is 70% of what they are doing will be the right thing. If people are trying to burn a city to the ground kicking the shit out of them isn’t oppression. Too many preppers seem to think that it is.

      It is funny to me how many are sure that a neighbor will kill a neighbor for corn in a SHTF but don’t think they will suit up with riot gear and bust heads if it is their job. Again, STUDY HISTORY!

      The belief that we are somehow super-unique is a lie and pandering to out arrogance. Every nation that ever held the title of world leader believed themselves to be unique and they all followed the same path.

    • @HiloBill –
      While I agree with your concerns about ‘external threats’, their machinations can’t destroy/weaken us without our complicity. So, dealing with them returns the focus to us. (The fall of Rome wasn’t due to the ‘superiority’ or superior tactics of their enemies).

      As for your ‘..recruits wouldn’t..’. If my hometown was burned to the ground by an angry mob, and my family had been living in a relocation camp on limited rations for six months, and the offer was ‘join up and you can have a home with a garden in the new town we’re building’.. what do you think my answer would be? (A bit dramatic.. but even six months sitting in my own house eating ‘government cheese’ might have the same effect). 🙂

      So yes, I’m much more concerned with ‘my government’ and its actions. One thing I’m really looking into (and impacts my future location) is ‘how can I support my local LEOs’, both pre and post SHTF. Better to maintain the ROL, with a local, known force made up of community members.. than have to plead with the State/Fed for help, and move the ‘monopoly on force’ outside your community.

      I view this the same as the ‘Banks’.. when its a perjorative, I’m talking about the TBTF, owners of the Fed. A local credit union is an entirely different thing, worthy of community support.

      Not saying it well.. I’m saying ‘the closer to home, the more control you (potentially) have. And ‘force’ is something you want local control of.

      • Agreed about “complicity;” Lenin called them useful idiots. The problem is that the vast majority of useful idiots don’t realize what the true end game is – they are therefore unable to be literally “complicit” because they think they’re just making the world a better place not realizing what they’re actually enabling something very different. Lenin explained that, “the goal of socialism is communism.” When the useful idiots wakeup to what they’ve enabled, it’s too late. That’s why they – the very ones who facilitated the path to socialism – are the very first to be “dispatched” following the revolution.

        Also, “they’re machinations” follow the model of Antonio Gramsci, “the long march through the institutions” of a society in order to weaken their pillars of societal strength; such has been the case over the decades with the educational system being just one of dozens of whittling-away-at targets. Being dumbed-down is just one manifestation of the Gramscian-ism.

    • There is a saying in Spanish that roughly translates to, the weakest dog attracts the most ticks. When the US starts to lose its grip on power it will only be a matter or time before the government changes to survival mode. Yes, it may try to squelch civil uprisings, but it can only do so much. At that point organized crime will rise or solidify it’s already strong presence here in the US. Maybe other countries won’t dare attack but they got time on their side and a weakening US. I do believe that my generation (dob 1971) will see war on US soil.

      I hope I’m wrong.

    • HiloBill,

      Everyone thinks it can’t happen here. We’d never do that! Our boys are the good guys! I’ve got one word for you:


    • In North Korea the army recruiting posters show young men in uniform holding helmets turned up like buckets filled with rice. The printed slogan translates as “Join the army and have a full stomach.” My 20 years of experience in the Marine Corps tells me that young men can be convinced of just about anything once you control their food, sleep and contact with the outside world.

  5. I wonder about looking at things from a different angle. There have been several refrences to games being played with people and groups being pawns and chess players, and while life may not be a “game” in the play it and put it back in the box sence there are patterns in games that do parallel real life. Long term it would seem that if you can provide for yourself you can exit some of the chess boards and refuse to play and discover the mechanisms used to keep people “playing” ( like debt ) and avoid or remove them. Free men cannot be enslaved without their concent. What has been done can be undone. If neighbor starts shooting neighbor they will all be wrong targets.

  6. Jack,

    In my opinion, you are probably right, about EROL — and wrong- about WROL- depending on the circumstances, geographic locations and timeframe.

    You yourself said there was a segment of the population that is evil scum- if not held in check by threat of imprisonment, they would be a huge threat to decent people.
    In right evironment, the everyday petty scum will multiply exponentially in numbers and their deeds…. and there is not enough police, or military to be in all places at once. Especially in the rural areas.

    Mainprepper is right – given an EMP, or Yellowstone explosion, world war, or any other extreme scenario.
    ….You are probably correct as well, given a slower economic “flush” down the toilet.
    However, even then, things can spiral out of control quickly.

    I do agree that training is a must, and preps are incomplete without it.

  7. Jack,

    It’s not just “kicking the can down the road further”, though it is also that. The longer the current game stays in place, the more wealth is pilfered from the population. In general, the rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting poorer. We’re not just seeing the failure to deal with problems. We’re seeing a wholesale despoiling, and the longer the game plays out, the more consolidation for the pieces at the top. This is why all inclusive programs are so important. Imagine the chaos when the currency gets reset? The poorer, stupider, more unable-to-do-a-single-damn-thing-for themselves a person is, the sooner they’ll starve to death, or go try and beat their neighbor for a can of beans.

    Extract wealth, cripple the population, militarize. The assclowns know where this is heading.. So many millions invested in an election that is entirely meaningless..

    Have you see the “Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth”? Regardless of what people think about 911, they did a segment at the end about why people are unable to process new information–what they believe is tied to their worldview and identity. Contrary information forces one to come to terms with an illusion, which is painful. Willful ignorance is the avoidance of pain.

    Great shows, Thanks,


  8. When I see in the show notes that Jack is going to talk about UN taxes, I know it’s time to sync up my IPod and do my late night stroll. Even though it’s raining here, I want to get out and walk my 2.5 miles. Getting ready to go soon here ..

    On some other comments here, I like to listen to Revelation in the bible sometimes. It is very symbolic, yet you can easily find the meaning in it I feel ..

  9. Jack,

    Goddammit, you’re all over it once again. I’ll be honest, you piss me off sometimes and I think you are flat out wrong sometimes, in fact, I know you are wrong sometimes, but all in all, you’re providing a good service here. I’d much rather have you on my side than not. Keep up the good work. You’re one of the good guys.

    • @Charlie how many times have you thought me wrong in the past only to have time prove me right? How many times have I said, I didn’t want to be right but now we know I was?

  10. These comments baffled me. I couldn’t get through them. Sounds like a competition to outdo the podcast. The podcast I thought was very succinct and to the point, and simple. And I am referring to specifically the wrol topic. What Mr. Spirko said on this topic was exactly what has consumed my thoughts and has been my projection of what is to be. There isn’t any doubt that this conclusion has been reached by hoards of us. This will play a part in the election but I think most will be making preparations far beyond that. The skepticism of election outcomes to remedy situations is, as always, predominant, but on the other hand optimistic possibilities are also highly anticipated.

  11. Jack I wanted to let you know that my rabbit eats pine cones. I give them to her to chew. I do not see any under the cage so she must eat them.

  12. Jack dont forget the adviser/ bank for that Government Run Pension Funds will not just be given that position based on merit, How much would an investment bank be willing to pay for the right to gain a few million captive customers.

  13. Hi Jack,

    On podcast you were talking about $$ debt expressed as time. Very effective. Is there a web site that shows this or has a table for it?



  14. Re: tracking people with surveilance cameras, I didn’t see any link to the story you mentioned and I do not doubt that some cities have gone overboard with techno-tracking, but I wanted to share a fact about my city. There are several hundred cameras at stoplight intersections and NONE of them capture video or photos. They detect gross pixel signatures (i.e. car or no car) to intelligently control the traffic lights. They look like video cameras but the resolution is too poor to even distinguish between a car and a truck. Call your local traffic engineer guys to ask what kind of cameras are in your town – it might not be as bad as you fear.

  15. There was a newbie gun owner asking about pistols on the show. The Ruger 22 is now a Mark III and has a standard American magazine release button at the trigger guard. I still prefer the Mark II because the III also has a magazine safety.
    As far as the .22 for self defense, I’ve looked at the quoted study and have my doubts. But my primary reason for rejecting the .22 for self defense is that commercial .22 lr is the least reliable factory ammo available. It is in the nature of rimfire cartridges to have a less than uniform fill of the priming compound at the rim. Even premium .22 ammo is less than 100% and the standard can give as many as 2 to 3 failures per 100. I shoot a lot and train a little and shoot much .22 and observe even more so I have personal experience here.