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Episode-1421- Listener Feedback for 9-8-14

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Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

Today on the Survival Podcast I take your comments, questions and thoughts debt,  automation, politics, virtual nations, electronic currency, our future and more.

Make sure if you submit content for a feedback show that you put something like “comment for jack”, “question for jack” or “article for jack” in the subject line to assure proper identification for my screening process.

Please understand I receive several hundred emails a day and can’t get them all on the air.

I also do put out a lot of information on Facebook from emails that I can’t fit on the program though so keep em coming.

Join Me Today As I Respond to Your Emails On

  • Some follow up to the Mark Shepard interview and his comments on debt
  • I said there would be a nation backed digital currency by the end of this year, its here
  • How Iceland ended up in debt prison to Europe and why it matters to virtual currency
  • Estonia is creating Virtual Currencies and Virtual Citizens
  • Why virtual nations will rise with no land association what so ever
  • Watch the divide as automation takes over
  • Why opting out is now different and so is “getting out”

Resources for today’s show…

This Monday’s Prepper Scenario

Today you walk into work, get called into HR, you are fired, there is no severance, there is only whatever your state pays in unemployment at your current status.  You call your spouse to break the bad news on the way home, they tell you the same just happened to them, what do you do now?

Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon. Also please enter our listener appreciation contest and help spread the word about our show. Also remember you can call in your questions and comments to 866-65-THINK (866-658-4465) and you might hear yourself on the air.

Also remember we have an expert council you can address your calls to. If you do this you should email me right after your call at jack at thesurvivalpodcast.com with expert council call in the subject line. In the body of your email tell me that you just called in a question for the council and what number you called in from. I will then give the call priority when I screen calls.

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Comments

Episode-1421- Listener Feedback for 9-8-14 — 68 Comments

  1. Um, okay, well, shit! I feel compelled to comment but am not sure what to say. Yes I did have my mind kind of blown up today, I haven’t ever really been as optimistic and as shitting my pants horrified at the same time ever in my life.

    Virtual Nations of the First Kind – Nations that just go all virtual and are actual nations with police forces, militarys, etc. the power of force scare me and damn I don’t want to see it here. I sat listening to Jack say this is what is coming, a US with a National ID card and complete and total economic control.

    I tried to find an objection and when I realized the same people that said having a drivers license to vote wasn’t fair would also be the very ones to support this thing, I knew we were sunk.

    Virtual Nations of the Second Kind – A sort of e-tribalism with voluntary association protected by a virtual currency that allows 100% anonymous commerce of producers. That inspires me but I just don’t see how you really protect it from the Virtual Nations of the First Kind.

    In any event typical Spirkoism, dead on, scary and inspiring at the same time. Jack I don’t know how you connect all these dots when no one else ever seems to, and damn if you don’t usually end up right about it.

    Keep it up and people are going to be mad at you the way they blame the weatherman for the weather!

  2. If you’re interested in virtual nations, there is a book by Neal Stephenson named The Diamond Age.

    It is science fiction, but it paints what I consider to be a very plausible near future where modern nation-states are few and far between. They have largely been replaced by “phyles” which are distributed virtual nations. The phyles are usually organized around something the members have in common, such as philosophy, religion, ethnicity or occupation.

    The phyles provide their members with many of the services modern nation-states provide their citizens, such as defense and dispute resolution. While phyle members tend to form enclaves, it is not unusual to rub shoulders with members of other phyles in day-to-day life.

    The global society in the book is fairly anarchistic. The author definitely doesn’t portray it as utopian, but it’s not dystopian either.

    It’s a really well-written book and I highly recommend it.

    http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Age-Illustrated-Primer-Spectra/dp/0553380966/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410215585&sr=8-1&keywords=the+diamond+age

    • Sounds like yet another book that gets a yes for desire to read and possibly a no for time to read, though since it is fiction and a story it does have the potential to end up in my night time before bed reading list.

      • I loved both those books. I think what they said about the importance of joining a strong community (phyle) is true. The world is divided up into many nation states. Snowcrash is about 60 years before Diamond Age.

      • Concur. This was the most frightening show yet. Maybe because I was running through these two stories in my head as I was hearing virtual nations coming to be. Snow Crash is a quick read, Jack. Diamond Age a bit longer but more thought out. Promising but scary, just like the podcast.

      • Oh yeah, as an aside, Diamond Age also offers a redesign of the education system that you’ll find interesting.

  3. conflicted Monday….it may be more complicated than it sounds, but my kneejerk reaction was that either or both of us would be at a pizza place that night, looking to deliver pizza, so there’s be a little cash flow right away, and the next day, we’d be at the employment office, looking in the newspaper and on line and updating our resume’s. We’d be on the phone to family and friends checking connections, and printing resumes, but be willing to get any job we are qualified or trained for while we unravel the emotions. We’d also be looking at the budget to see where we could trim expenses. We definitely would not go on a cruise. We’d be patting ourselves on the backs because we knew such things could happen and had an emergency fund and food/supplies stored. We’d be laughing at Murphy. One thing we would not do is submit cv’s on -line as I have been on the hiring side of that and know how many don’t even get opened….or were filled before advertised.

  4. Conflicted scenero strikes very close to home. I was just kicked to the curb from a job Ive had for 7 years. No unemployment benefits to be had. All I have is a small retirement check that only pays about half the bills. After working through the bout of depression that followed, I accessed my preps. I do have some money coming in and some in the bank. I also have approx 6-9 months of food storage and certain trade items (extra guns and ammo) that can be sold to generate cash. Because of this, I have an allotment of time to work out my plan. Being in W. Virginia and what with the coal industry under heavy pressure, (my area of employment) the system is really overburdened with people out of work. Being of retirement age, my work options are few and far between. At present, Im desperately looking for a small bit of land to move my travel trailer onto. Im looking for two acres or there about. More would be nice. It will mean a drastic change of lifestyle but I can start growing my own food, plant a small food forest and get some low upkeep critters, thus increasing my sustainability and chopping my bills by at least two thirds. This seems to be my best viable option for the moment. Once established, I can then start thinking about possible permaculture cash flows. Life would be boring without challenges, yes? 🙂

  5. Mark Shepard- totally understand Mark’s use of debt. Unfortunately also know many stupid people will take him out of context and get themselves in trouble. On the bright side, failed operations will eventually create foreclosure buying opportunities for PPPs ( prudent patient permies).

    • Mark Shepard is a minor hero, IMHO. But he mentioned that Trump had declared bankruptcy twice. I saw yesterday that Trump Resorts filed for Chap 11.

      There is a difference between productive debt and unproductive debt. But Trump Resorts has discovered that overleveraging is not a winning combo.

      I think that I am about a year away from my attempt at playing Mark Shepard on the farm scale, though currently, I am running some sheep on a property of a friend of mine. My wife tells me that it is good practice. I have learned several ways to fail, and had to create new ways to do creative. It is a lot of fun, but I am glad I can learn it small scale first. Anyone want some Lamb?

      Anyway, I think that borrowing money to create productive business situations is so different than borrowing to buy a car, or to buy a boat.
      The question I have, and I don’t know that there is a right answer, is how much would a prudent investor be willing to borrow for a property? 50%? 80%? 95%? Once you get established, (say you borrow 80% for property #1) and have lots of equity in the property after ten years. Lets say you buy the adjacent property worth twice as much as your original property is. Do you borrow up to 80% of both properties value? I consider that long term imprudence, because it doesn’t leave you much margin for error, and there is always a lot of error in need of a margin.

      What do you guys think?

  6. So.. here’s the fun thing about virtual citizenship..

    To date, a nation state has been defined by its physical borders. And its ‘customers’ have been limited to those people living within those geographic boundaries.

    Now.. entrepreneurial compan.. whoops.. I mean nations, can sell their product to people that until now, have had to deal solely with their local MONOPOLY.

    This works for EVERY nation. The US can sell name brand passports (they already do..) and mint shiny new ‘citizens’ that never live within the borders of the US. In fact, you can sell ‘levels’ of citizenship. Platinum, Gold and Silver, with varying levels of citizenship.

    Smaller nations can sell specialty products.. tax protection, anonymity, unlimited personal freedom (the ‘libertarian package’.. you can do anything you want as long as you don’t violate the rights of others)..

    • ok.. I was typing this as I was listening.. so Jack covered most of these ideas.. 😉

      Think taxation goes away.. and government becomes a ‘pay as you go’ service.

      So.. ‘democracy’ goes away.. no more buying and selling votes with laws/bribes.. its all ‘you get what you pay for’.. directly.

      Are the bureaucrats shedding their politicians? What is the point of a politician in the modern world? Agreements between nations are made by non-governmental organizations.. so why the heck do you need a state department?

      Seriously.. why does DC even exist at this point? You could totally shut it down and just have a small central department that tallied and reported what the individual States want to pass as ‘Universal Laws’ (applying to all states).

      Is there any current governmental function that couldn’t be replaced with a simple algorithm?

      • Insidious: Much of what you say is true, but there never will be a 100% replacement ability for many aspects of life. (Thus making Govt at some levels a necessary)

        In my younger years, I did a 6 year tour with the Army Research Labs. Specifically the Survivability and Lethality Analysis Directorate. Much of the R&D they do there could never be automated. This is just one small example. As much as I would like to think that there would be less of a need for this entity in a digital future, I’d be foolish to do so…

        So long as there are humans, Jack’s 10% rule remains applicable. If there are 10 people running the cyber security of this hypothetical Virtual Nation, then per the 10% rule, 1 of them is dirty.

        This 10% rule is also kinda why a pure anarchist society would be just as bad as a pure totalitarian society. Freedom just doesn’t really exist in the extreme ends of the spectrum. The best place for freedom (granted, IMHO) is somewhere in the middle.

        A government, virtual or not, needs to exist to mediate conflict in situations where two citizen’s rights are at odds with each other, to build roads, and… well to be honest not much else. 🙂

        • @SouthernWatchman
          I’m being somewhat facetious.

          However.. your research example isn’t really a ‘only a government could do it’ function. Research is regularly performed by non-government entities, from individuals to corporations.

          If you’re saying its government only, because only government is allowed to/has the bombs to test.. well, that doesn’t hold up either. ‘The government’ doesn’t design or manufacture the weapons.

          Your final comment is interesting.. the problem with ‘mediating conflict’ is that a ‘bad party’ will never voluntarily submit to ‘mediation’. Hence the rise of law enFORCEment.

          Personally.. I want Gort. The problem/awesome thing being that is that only the most liberatarian laws should be enforced by Gort, as automated enforcement must/should only be applied for TRUE crimes.. there is no ‘human element’ to make judgement calls on a case by case basis.

          =)

          The fun thing about this sort of speculation is that we may be coming into a time when much of it can be applied due to power vacuums and imbalances of force.

        • @Insidious

          You say fun, but I’ll be honest the power vacuums in Afghanistan are just about anything but fun. Is everything going to devolve to such things? No. But speaking from first hand experience it’s worth noting the uhm real world way things play out.

          I generally saw that power vacuums were taken up by people who have historically had power but were suppressed, or people who have local power in general. Afghanistan (particularly South Western) is definitely an oddball with this one (due to its history) and its melting pot of cultures. The “power players” are old 1970s-80s mujahadeen who locals don’t really like either.

        • @Mike (wrong reply level)

          Well.. when I say ‘fun’ you have to keep in mind that my user name is ‘Insidious’..

          😉

  7. Monday’s Prepper Scenario:

    the wife and i get unemployment that comes to 500 a week total. that pays the mortgage and insurance. we have enough food storage to last us 3-6 months. no grocery shopping needed for that time. so we need at least 1k a month to pay the other bills.

    well day one i go to my hiring hall and sign the books. hopefully i take a call for another electrical contractor and i go back to work. the wife calls around and tries to get on with another insurance office. if no one is hiring i may have to travel to another town such as Baton Rouge or Lafayette or another state such as Texas or Mississippi and see if i can take a referal out for another contractor.

    if no work is available the wife starts five years earlier than intended and ramps up her side bussiness of baking out of the house and sells to anyone and everyone we can find.

    i work and hustle my ass off: electrical, handy man work, yard work, scrap metal collection, work 4 part time jobs, sell blood, bone marrow, and sperm. we survive.

    lucky for us we have no kids, little to no debt, and we are currently waging massive warfare on the little debt we have.

    Jack: Love the show. You have made countless person’s lives better. You have personally saved so many people for when the shit hits the fan. Thanks again brother.

  9. Conflicted scenario… Halleluiah! Sorta. I’ve spent the last few years setting up for just this (and any other potential issues) so if I didn’t go right back to the same grind for another company (drivers are in demand now and have been for years) I could spend the unemployment period getting the work done that I don’t have time for while working 50-60 hours/ week. Thanks to a certain podcaster we’ve paid off 2 vehicles, have a cash stash and our monthly bills would be well handled by the Unemployment Compensation ($587/week combined after tax deduction by the state), foodforest is started but still needs a lot of work and I don’t have the stamina I used to have in my 30’s and 40’s so I believe we could use the time to get trees cut, (gas stashed, bar n chain oil put back and mixing oil aplenty). I’d conscript my unemployed step son and my daughters unemployed boyfriend. Trees and bushes that are in pots awaiting their final home could be installed. Man, I’d look at it as paid vacation (until I had to re-certify my CDL) and a mentoring opportunity. I seriously doubt I’d consider going back to work until I had the veggie garden in next Spring. Our only issue would be med’s and the lack of insurance to cover the bulk of that cost – might have to cash in some metals. I have dozens of herb seed packets just itching to be started. We’d be eating a little less out of the freezer and more of the canned and processed storage food to stretch the fresh frozen meats n veggies but this scenario would be exactly what I’d need to potentially get 1-1/4 acre cleared and try the permaculture orchard. Christmas would be home made, but those gifts mean more long term than the overpriced plastic. I know this could be a frightening thought for some but we’re far enough in our preps to handle this in stride and maybe it’d be the jump off point to retirement for us.

  10. Conflicted Monday: I’d schedule a dinner date with my wife. Seriously, this is a non-issue. I’m a full-time media freelancer and get “fired” at the successful completion of any contract. If one client ceased working with me, I have others and can find more, I have some semi-guaranteed meager income from stock footage sales to cover simple expenses, and in paper and silver we have about 2 years slim income saved to cover down months. I really have no idea whether state unemployment would ever even apply in my situation. My wife home schools our kids, so her job is secure. So yeah… being fired, no big deal.

    • Conflicted Monday: I’m with McBob. Having gotten out of school in the 80’s, I’ve never known a job force to go into. I run my own design and construction companies and drop my customer base to zero more often than I would like. It’s being fired without even the government safety net. I’ll assume to comply with the spirit of the question, that there won’t be any more clients for my business ever. Then I do the next best thing. Buy, invest in my own projects to be my own company’s customer. I have built a tiny rental empire this way to fill the “unemployment gaps.” If real estate development is dead, so might be my rental income streams. If I can’t do that, I’ll use the appreciable assets that I have to generate income. I have started my 19 acre permaculture farm, and I will at least have food, shelter, energy, as long as I can create abundance. I can also create community by bringing on others in the same situation and together we can create our own value in the land, timber, animals and food. including hunting the surrounding forest and fishing the river. My construction tools would be my means to barter services or even use to trade.

  11. Conflicted Monday:

    Both my wife and I have just lost my job. What’s the first thing to do? Cuss loudly. Then, take a deep breath, go down stairs and stare at the reserve of food and consumables we’ve been slowly building up over time. We’ve all started prepping for a myriad of reasons, and this is most certainly one of them. After that, both my wife and I would call the Technical Recruiters we have kept in touch with over the years. Prepping is more than Beans ‘n Guns after all, and a strong network of people in the workforce plus an updated resume are definitely part of modern survival for those of us who have not attained 100% self reliance/self employment.

    While the situation is not something that warrants a ‘freak out’ yet, it is a situation that warrants relatively immediate action. The faster you start looking for a job, the sooner you could have income again. Like others above in the comments, we also have items that could be sold to generate cash, if need be. Since food and water are not a problem for the immediate future, and the Employment Fishing line has been cast, a relaxing evening and a good nights sleep should round out the immediate actions.

    The next day would be spent updating resumes and hitting the big job search engines (e.g. Monster.com). Both a passive and active search is warranted, but the Head Hunters are so much better at getting the decent to good jobs that passive seems to work much better in our field (Software Development). I have contracted the last 6 years on high dollar, short term contracts, and my experience is that the wait time for a job is very short. I am not very concerned with finding employment.

    However, operating under the assumption that the unemployment period becomes prolonged, a change of gears is warranted. both my wife and I are not above taking lower paying jobs like flipping burgers, mowing lawns, plowing snow or delivering pizzas to generate income, with the understanding those are stop-gap jobs. We have family in the area that could provide child care.

    — — —
    While not nearly as entertaining as the pseudo MadMax scenarios, this one is more realistic and thus something that deserves a bit more brain-hours dedicated to it! Walking through a job loss really helps you to see where your preps may be lacking, and/or helps you see opportunities that you could have available to you if you just prep a little now.

    Good one Jack!

  12. With the virtual citizenship angle, as you were describing it what occurred to me was not only the ‘national ID’ for citizens, but a similar thing for non-residents and non-citizens to assist in banking and investment and other activities in the US. First they sell it as a convenience and a streamlined way for non-US citizens who want to move money to or directly invest in the US (as European and other banks continue to falter and implement their ‘bail-ins’) or possibly as a fast-track for getting business, work, or tourist visas. After getting them hooked and ‘established’ in the US financial system, they offer a few more privileges in exchange for certain ‘obligations’, most likely of a financial reporting nature. Want to keep investing, banking, visiting, or doing business in the only ‘safe haven’ and one of the few remaining advanced economies not yet in free fall? Well Uncle Sam just needs a few more details about your non-US financial activities. Don’t worry, you can trust Uncle Sam with your financial information…. 😉

    I don’t expect this would last forever, but since I expect the US will manage to push off its big economic collapse longer than most other major economies, I see this ‘non-citizen ID’ being possible within the next several years.

    – Nick

  13. Jack: One thing that I had questions/thoughts about concerning the Virtual Nations (VN) was the transference of Virtual actions to real world actions. Assuming for a second that the VN is up and running well and that I can conduct commerce as a VN citizen, and I purchase something on Amazon.vn… all the financial aspects of that transaction (for me at least) happen in the virtual space.

    But what about a company like Amazon? They have to accept payment in one country, subject to it’s rules, and then ship an item in the physical space, in a different country, possibly multiple countries, subject to all their rules.

    It seems to be that with many VN’s coming into play could/would make things insanely complex, quickly. (All because a VN doesn’t eliminate a Physical Nation (PN) and their meddling) To that end, I’ve noticed that people have a certain threshold for tolerating complexity, after which they ‘shut down’ and do not want to participate. If this PN / VN relationship gets as complex as I fear it could, it may very well scare people away from the amazing potential of VNs.

    Thoughts?

    • First I now have a desire to create/own/control/betheoverlordof a new TLD, .vn sadly .vn is owned by Vietnam, doh!

      Second, I think this is something that must go in stages, you can’t go to a VN with a company like amazon over night. It would have to start like bitcoin did, with person to person transactions, a bit under the radar. As the nation grew and its spending power grew you set the terms and let the companies figure out how to do business with you.

      How would they do this? We don’t know yet.

    • I will second some concern of this, just by pointing out that the larger the company particularly the international “conglomerates” the more they operate on effecient government borders. I don’t see more opened borders in the future, I see less, of which the more global the company the more I’m fairly convinced of the difficulty for them.

  14. Just a thought on the self-checkout lines at Wal-Mart and when you see people who may or may not be able to work them.

    We have all probably heard the thing about figuring out who the sucker is at the poker table, right? Maybe we need to have the saying:

    “If you can’t look and figure out who the lump is who can’t use the self-checkout, then you are the lump who can’t use the self-checkout.”

  15. Conflicted Monday: I might be in the minority as I would probably be relieved to leave my job…. my coworkers are cool for the most part, but the bureaucracy and the ‘customer’ we deal with is like the bastard child of the two movies Office Space and Idiocracy. My wife and I already have plans to relocate and go into business for ourselves next year, so it’s likely that we’d just decide to go early. Put in our intent to vacate notice to the apartment management, pay the break lease fee, and get our car and our household belongings loaded into a storage container for shipment. We’d have somewhat less capital than I’d prefer, but we have enough savings to still make it all work. Since we already own an apartment at our destination (as a result of a previous investment), our household expenses would be modest and our biggest non-business expenses would be airfare and shipping expenses. I would still repost my most current resume to ClearanceJobs and Dice.com and allow for a couple weeks to search for some temporary contract positions (many that pay better than my current job but without the benefits), in the off-chance I could find something quickly. We have enough saved that we CAN pull the trigger now, but if given the opportunity I would like to save up more so we would have more capital to put to work.

    At least for myself this was a potential reality until relatively recently, when we received word that our company’s contract would be extended into next year. So I’d already given this scenario quite a bit of thought already.

    – Nick

  16. 22 minutes in. THANK YOU. Good lord I have been making this point for awhile now. The fact is it is more difficult to actually get in way over your head than most people think. You simply cannot go and get a million dollars in debt with no history no plan, or extreme “convincing” skills. I don’t care if its through kickstarter, commerical bank or venture capitalist. Do I think its easier today than ever to receive money? It depends. I definitely think that there are a lot of people looking to put their money into things of value (real value) than an anytime in the last probably 50-100 years. And of course I’m speaking about people with real money.

    Do you need to have farming history to get access to large sums of cash? No. But you better have one hell of a plan, marketing personality, and really sell your idea to either alot of people, or a few wealthy ones. You also better have the “Balls” and confidence like hell to pitch it which 99% of people wouldn’t even do. Are you going to quiver with anxiety pitching some large idea to get funding? Good luck bud.

  17. Re: Mark Shepherd and using debt

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with how Mark Shepherd uses debt to expand his projects (at least when it comes to real estate that’s also a producing asset). It might be a little more leverage-intensive than I’m comfortable with, but that’s just my personal preference to be more cautious. All I would say to him and others wanting to do the same thing is this: enjoy it and take advantage of it while you can, but have a plan in place for the time when the debt-bubble pops and you can no borrow on the cheap. Be prepared for the time when you have to slow it down and use more of one’s own money and resources for expansion. But until then, I hope Mark grows an empire big enough to challenge the Monsantos and ConAgras of the agricultural space…

    – Nick

  18. If you look at Mark Shepard did, he did not use conventional lending on his farm. He found an individual(s) with the ability to fund the down payment and by locating a ‘distressed’ property financed the balance with owner financing. Yes his ability and skill to farm played a major role, but that is what he brought to the table. Eventually he could finance the farm and operating expenses and then grow his business. Just remember debt can be a two edged sword..

  19. Seems like if crypto currencies become legitamite for countries, bitcoin will soar being the originally known and int’l used cashless system. all points lead back to the one. Hence invest in a few bitcoin. If I ever want to visit Ecuador, Iceland, or sell to anyone there it would behoove us in the know to get some..especially when it dropped from listing price of 330 to fall to the teens. Where can I get some? wouldn’t it be nice to have a currencies offering sign up warehouse online. offer it like time share buy ins, future trade, and tourism. Begin the Awarelands , the permaethos, etc. Command Central, we are ready in the Flathead.

  20. With the world seemingly going toward virtual currencies will one rise up as the “world reserve currency”? Similar to the way the dollar is now, maybe a Chinacoin? Also, I could almost see all these virtual currencies being exchanged like trading stocks. High frequency exchanging using algorithms. Maybe not, just thinking out loud.

  21. Conflicted:
    First things first I would call my wife and calm her down. I would make plans for a date with her that night some where that we can just relax and enjoy a bite to eat.

    I would tell my wife not to stress out and just enjoy our day and evening. The next day I would polish up my resume, make a post on facebook and linkedin that I am looking for work. Hit up a few job listing sites and see if there are positions in my field that are open and call about any I find. I would also call a former employer to let him know that I am available to work and do service calls while between jobs.

    My wife works in a field that is easy for her to find part time work that pays well so she would probably go back to doing that.

    We are debt free but rent (looking for property at the moment) so we have to be able to cover rent + Cell phone bill + life insurance + internet service + food every month. If prospects look slim things like netflix get canceled. We have enough in savings to cover us for around a year living on a tighter budget not considering unemployment at all.

    I would work any type of jobs needed to relax the financial strains but a loss of our jobs would not be an immediate catastrophe for me and my wife.

    Good job on the scenario it is the first one I have felt the slightest bit interested in responding to.

  22. I have been talking about Estonia for quite a few years now. I’m quite glad to see that they’re going that way, in fact, I would be HIGHLY tempted to take them up on an international “digital citizenship”. Throwing out ad-hocly a 2016 summer vacation, oh i mean business trip to check it out. Meet local permaculturists and get a feeling for what its like there.

    • I met some Estonians while in Afghanistan, cool dudes. The country has always looked unbelievably gorgeous from pictures I’ve seen. Doing some cursory looking around looks like a very interesting place to add as a possible “2nd home”.

      My only problem EVER living there is Russia. At least the Estonians aren’t exactly that favorable to the Russians (unlike other former Soviet Union countries). Considering they’re descendant from Finland is quite nice. I’m very Meh about living in Europe (particularly central Europe) just due to their overwhelmingly violent history.

      • I think you are way to comfortable with this E-Citizen thing at least if you would live there with it. It would be one thing to have the card just to bank outside the US etc. it would be another to live in a society that has it.

        THAT SAID, taking my own words to heart, I have to ask if my nation IS GOING to do this too, and they will, who would I trust more, Estonia or the US Government. It breaks my heart but I already trust Estonia more than my own government.

        One more that said though, I sure think I’d be more likely to call Costa Rica or Panama my new home before Estonia.

        • Well jack I think you would probably read me a bit better than that. =)

          As far as “trust governments” I don’t trust any. Period, for any reason, what-so-ever. I believe the best thing is to look at the totality of where an organization is, in its life cycle, just as much any bloated huge business (but worse), and we can clearly see that the United States government (and many others) are not exactly going to get positive from here. I don’t need the news to tell me that.

          While I am not currently “such kind of person” (currently), I believe being an “international citizen” pays dividends in such sort of “dark days”. Of course I think putting roots down is critically important to your impact on this earth, but having another place that you live, or can live (in a very different country) I can see paying for itself if need be. Multiple passports, bank accounts, property, etc. Full diversification. If “shit hits the fan” the time to get another country’s passport is long long since gone. In the “meantime” you have vacation property that you can enjoy, particularly if you’ve set your lifestyle up to be able to do that.

          For me the biggest thing about having property in another location will ease your mind, and allow you to make more rational decisions if the day ever comes where you might consider moving to greener pastures, at least temporarily. Having a place to go with some familiarity is better than coming up with it at the last minute.

          But, I will tend to focus my attention also on just having diverse experiences in life and considering other options and broadening my horizons.

        • On trust, I think you could say:
          ‘I trust individuals, I don’t trust groups’

          The problem with groups being, their membership changes, and you have the usual ‘bad eggs’ problem.

          ‘The Government’ of today is not ‘The Government’ of even last year. And of course it will be different again tomorrow.

          This is true of other organizations as well.. but ‘The Government’ is unique in that it can unilaterally change any contract(s) it has with you.

  24. Conflicted Monday
    Simple formula I have used multiple times in my life for getting established / back on my feet. Find something people don’t like to do (mow lawns, maid service, pooper scooper, clean gutters, paint, the list goes on) and offer to do it for a reasonable price. I can build a lawn care business or maid service business to 60,000 in 3 months or less I have done both before. So depending on what time of year it was and what opportunity is available I will start an appropriate service business.

  26. Conflicted Jack:

    I grab a bottle of wine on the way home and eat dinner then put the kids to bed and have quiet evening with the wife. Then in the morning I hit up the recruiters that I am in contact with and also hit up my network to see if the offers are still there. Probably take the afternoon and finish some projects around the house that I haven’t got to. Maybe take my daughter to the park. I will probably file for unemployment, just in case. Also, discuss with the wife what expenses are going to go.

    If it is really tough times my wife might also have to start looking for work as well. Probably sell off the stocks that I wasn’t sure about selling so the cash is there. Roll the 401K out to an IRA. Eventually, put the house up for sale if I have to and down size. Did this already in 2009 🙁

    Also, thanx Jack in a much better situation today because of this show to deal with this. What I have not solved yet is the nothing answer because I work for myself 🙁 Maybe if you ask this again in 5 years that will be my answer.

  28. Conflicted scenario.

    Is this not what most people prepare for. I always plan on being fired for no cause. (thankfully it has never happened)

  29. Conflicted Monday scenario:
    Sad to say I’ve been there done that. Only mine started with burying my eldest child, then came my layoff (which I asked for because I just couldn’t function) followed by my husband just a short time after. At first we didn’t give a crap we had just buried our daughter so granted our perspective was off. We had food because I always keep an ample supply. We had very little money saved we just spent most of it on a funeral. I did nothing right away because my mom was dying and I wanted to be with her, my husband however started looking for a job. He found one in Georgia (we lived in AZ) but he packed up the truck and headed out. It wasn’t enough and we lost it all. He did eventually land a great job in AZ at the base with a contractor and we’ve since began rebuilding although in a much different way.

  30. conflicted:
    In 2008 we “fired” ourselves from our long term business. After 20+ years in the fastfood restaurant business, we decided to sell out and “retire”. This was not a spur of the moment choice, we had been watching the economic and political environment, and after careful considerations we made the leap well before normal retirement age. We had made some very profitable Real Estate purchases that were paid off and generated an income flow. The message here is we planned for this change in our lives. This is also about the time we found TSP. I must admit you scared the crap out of me Jack. However, my dear husband allowed me time to process the information and come to terms with a very radical change in our lives. We picked up all our stuff and moved to Idaho. Downsized our homestead, but are making it much more productive. We did keep all our cashflow holdings so we now have the freedom to focus on all the activities that bring us great satisfaction and happiness. Ranching, and permaculture play a significant role in our efforts. Having a vision of where you want to go is critical to building success, then taking the first steps toward that goal. One step at a time, one day at a time…as you say…”tick tock” time waits for no one. Here is an interesting outcome to this move. We helped our daughter move to our homestead with her family about 18 months ago. It was clear she was going to need support to make it. We were able to build a second home on our property. She will need this home for the next several years, however, when she no longer needs the residence, we will be able to cash flow the home as a vacation cabin, layover location for people traveling with horses, or operate it as housing for farming help. This will give us options and perhaps alow us to stay on our homestead in our advanced years.

  31. I listened to the podcast. But I’m not sure what the incentive to join these virtual nations are. I may have missed a key point, but it just sounds like he is calling alt currencies nations.

    Now what happens when a country like China or America start attack (virtuall?) Libertopians? I’ve paid to be part of this Nation, how are they going to protect me? Or will I simply look into my local physical gov’t to hopefully do something? What if it is my local Gov’t attacking me?

    Again, what are the incentives to join these virtual nations. It honestly just sounds like investing in a new Coin backed by an ideology that can’t be physically practiced, unless you live in a standing nation who will let you do what you want. Not Likely. America wont let me practice my libertarian drug freedoms in Texas.

    With all that said, I think each country should have its own Crypto Currency. And when they want to go to war, they will need to raise the funds from the citizens. Think of how many people would have thrown in right after 9/11/01. versus how many would donate today. Probably just the idiots scared of ISIS/ISIL.

    Thanks for the podcast Jack!

  32. Your theoretical country already has internationally recognized president. The country is called SeaLand.
    It is .025km2 in size. This “micronation” is physically based on an offshore platform that was taken away from the UK & English court ruled it did not have jurisdiction over Sealand shock is outside their territorial waters.
    Now, start building virtual services to citizens on that framework.

      • Understood. Even Agreed concerning your country specifically.
        However poin;, ANY “legal” recognition of non-standard entities gives a toe hold for follow-ons that also don’t meet all the enumerated criteria. Countries without their own currency already had international recognition. Sealand is just a leverage of that standard which does not require every single item on the list.

        New listener of about 30 episodes, love what you’re doing.

  33. Funny thing about the prepper scenario this week, It happened to me 3 days later, only because I was helping out a friend I ended up loosing my unemployment benefits altogether.

    My wife was working as a part time delivery driver for the local pizza shop and they needed some extra help now that the college kids went back to school so I offered to help on Saturdays and Sundays. Two weeks in I got laid off from my primary job. Now I am stuck working for the pizza company making less than half the wage and don’t have much time to interview with new employers. Talk about a kick in the nuts!

    I loose my unemployment if I quit or get fired and because they need the help, I can’t refuse it or I loose unemployment, and I’ll be making just over what I would have on unemployment. I’ll be working until 2am or later for the foreseeable future with no way to quit.

    • Wow what a load of bullshit and ass covering.

      “There were actually four individuals trying to cross through the Texas border, who were apprehended at two different stations, that do have ties to known terrorist organizations in the Middle East.”

      Huh?

      Who are they? What is their nation of origin? Exactly what “ties” do they have? Why were they detained? Who says they have “ties to terrorists” in the first place? Why does the headline call them “known terrorists” when they claim is they have ties to “terrorists organizations in the middle east”?

      This nation will believe anything the mamma media bird pukes down its throat.

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