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Episode-1194- Listener Feedback for 8-26-13

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Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

Today on The Survival Podcast I take your questions and emails on economics, community building, naughty list states, agritrue, gardening and more.

Make sure if you submit content for a feedback show that you put something like “comment for jack”, “question for jack” or “article for jack” in the subject line to assure proper identification for my screening process.

Please understand I receive several hundred emails a day and can’t get them all on the air.

I also do put out a lot of information on Facebook from emails that I can’t fit on the program though so keep em coming.

Join Me Today As I Respond to Your Emails On

  • Hungary gives the boot to the IMF, the good, the potential bad
  • Modern monetary slavery foretold in 1862
  • My thoughts on the ecovillage concept previously discussed with Xavier Hawk
  • Thoughts on moving to a state on the WTF “naughty list”
  • How long can you store honey, apparently as long as you can a mummy
  • The exact explanation for why the Federal Debt is static, you won’t like this
  • How is it possible that the entire world is in debt at the same time
  • What to do if you have to install garden beds ahead of planting
  • A paradoy site that will make you chuckle and sigh at the same time, GetPRSM.com
  • The low down on PrimaCane berries
  • A lesson about how we should all live our lives, very cool

Resources for today’s show…

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Comments

Episode-1194- Listener Feedback for 8-26-13 — 69 Comments

  1. Spot on Jack. There are a couple finer points i’d include in the over all plan, but essentially you nailed it.

    This is a perfect option for people of all economic means to get a stake in a way of living that is way richer than ANY gated community, or homestead for that matter.

    Also, besides the revenue generated from residents lease payment the retreats and workshops can bring in a strong revenue stream as well. Also, a cottage industry or two run by the Eco Village itself brings in smaller but essential revenue, plus it gets residents working together and INTERACTING.

    Count me in to helping make this vision happen.

  2. Great show and I am very interested in your model for building a self reliant community. I will watch you progress closely as I would love to do something similar here in the UK.
    Keep up the good work Jack, you are an inspiration.

    aman

  3. Dude I love the concept for your community. I would love to be able to buy a stake in it. Not sure if moving to Texas is in the cards for me but sounds like it would be a great investment.

  4. Jack sign me up as resident, I have thought about this for years and I think you have the best plan I have heard yet!

    Great idea and great show!
    Shannon

  5. Jack or Xavier,
    I’m moving further north than Texas… But the idea sounds very cool. Is the idea to establish a non-profit or a corporation to act as the landlord? Would there be a way to buy multiple lots? Are there any sample by-laws that you’ve seen? Anyway, I wish you the best on this endeavor.

    • I would not do a non profit, I despise non profits, absolutely hate them. I make profits with what I do. I’ll be seeking investors and investors want a profit as well. Being an non profit makes you subject to more rules and restrictions.

      Multiple lots? I am thinking likely a limit of two and a limit on how many people can even do that. We want a community, communities need people. I would also be more open to selling multiple lots to a person who was going to live on site. I think we need at least 20 permanent to semi permanent residents to make this fly.

      Likely I will brand this as a FOR PROFIT PERMACULTURE BASED COMMUNITY and shout that from every roof top.

      As for bylaws Xavier Hawk has a lot skinned but to be honest this is going to be a Jack Spirko benevolent dictatorship. By the time we take a dime from anyone all things will be lined out as to how they will be run. Anyone who doesn’t want to do things that way can create their own community somewhere else with their own resources.

      My main rule will be you can’t bitch about what anyone else does on their own property that they are paying for.

  6. Please keeps us updated with the Jerusalem artichoke and your guilds. You said bushy? Mine are like 10 ft trees with 2in dia stalks. I guess a tree is a bush. This is my first year with them. My thought was to try green beans or wax beans with them next year because they are about 3 to 4 foot when its time to plant beans here.

    • Mine are very tall, say 8 feet but also very bushy. I planted 6 tubers in a 10×4 bed, they have enveloped the entire thing.

    • I’ve got jarusalem artichokes all over now after some thoughtful planting. The ones that are doing the best are the ones I’ve got competing with mint and nettle. The competition between the three is very vigorous and is causing them all to be very hearty.

      • Very cool idea.
        I really like that idea too. Place all the “invasive” species in the same area and let them duke it out (all of which should.. by their own merits do well).

      • That’s fascinating, and awesome. I’ve been thinking about doing a sort of large scale container (like a decent sized stock tank) for growing some things that really like to take over. Good to know the competition actually provides a benefit. I think I might actually try this combo, but maybe switching nettle out for blessed milkthistle.

  7. Jack,

    Your concept of a community sounds like your on the right path. Many of homes in Hawaii are on leased land where you own the home but have a 99 year lease on the land. The idea also is similar to a land condominium in Florida which may present a more traditional approach with common areas and private areas. Most will think of a building but some have been done with land where the condominum owner is able to build whatever is desired on their land condo but limits may also be set. This way the common areas are owned by the association however the condo land units could be purchased. This may make it possibly more marketable. For the those concered about the run away powers of the association the association documents could be made very difficult to amend in fact the association could have no powers and the underlying condos could have deed restrictions. In Texas though this approach may not work as I am not sure of your state laws.

    Just a thought.

  8. After listening I just sat here trying to imagine the hundred of little things that would make this community thrive. The amount of knowledge alone with everyone there would be enough for the price of admission. A Makers workshop with some office space so people could start up their businesses. Paul Wheaton’s last podcast about residual income streams along with this plan would do gangbusters. I’ve been looking for land along the Texas coast but you can count me in, I’ll miss the surf fishing but I think I can live without it.

  9. I’m very interested in the leasing part of the planned community. The wife and I are planning on moving the family to the Dallas area next summer, so this would work out great .

  10. Ok, so I’ll take an acre lease as long as there is community space to farm! I am looking to move 100% onto the land and make a living there. As such I would love the opportunity to work in the land full time. I have 10+ years heavy equipment operation, am a texas licensed hvac expert, 15 years building control systems and programming micro controllers, 5 years writing custom business web applications, 8 years growing with aquaponics, 2 years building my permaculture food forest, 4 years raising meat chickens, 4 years running dairy goats, and willing to accept para dimes, bit coin, and any script/hours generated by this community.

    My question is do you have anything in-place for people to offer goods and services for barter or script to other member’s of the community; a place to list skills and assets ect?

    • We will have ways for residents to monetize skills. A community currency is one of my goals but I don’t have a problem with dollars either. As for 100% off the land, get over that now. It isn’t going to happen, you can live largely off the land. As for community farming the plan is for many things to be running like that.

      With the revenue we can do things like, run 500 chicken a cycle, at the end each member gets 5. Who takes care of them, slaughters them, etc. People we pay to do it. That sounds like it might be you. Why not run 1000 broilers in three annual cycles. That is 30 birds a year per resident. Make sense?

      I see cattle, etc. We can also sell some of this stuff inside the community as well at cost just to deal with the entire thing of “but he got more than me”. Etc.

      • When I refer to living 100% off the land in my mind it means not holding a job, or working for the general public producing most if not all the healthy food my family needs . I am already close to doing so now, but without community it is very hard to do everything; if not impossible without a family heritage of land & farming. I have meet quite a few old timers who traded with community for what they did not have and everyone had all they needed. So if there’s a way my skills or production of food for more than my self could contribute to such a community I wold love to do so. Many hands make for light work.

  11. That “jar of life” routine came from Stephen Covey. He would do it as part of his “first things first” talk in his 7-habits conventions.

      • Even before he wrote his 7 habits books Stephen Covey was doing the thing with the rocks and the jar in his classes at a university back in the late 70’s. I don’t remember if it was in his organizational behavior class or his philosophy class, but I do remember watching him do the demonstration. He was a business professor at that time. It did go with his pause button and circles of influence.

        I don’t know if the jar and rocks story was his or if he borrowed it from elsewhere. I don’t remember him taking credit for the jar and rocks. It has been around for a long time.

        Adding the beer, coffee, etc are modified versions of the jar and rocks story.

    • I told my GF the same thing yesterday, but, I couldn’t remember where I first heard it, Thanks Christopher!

  12. Love the idea for the community. Wouldn’t be able to afford to be an investor but would consider being a lessee. Also loved the Balki comment.

  14. Jack, I am planning a move to Texas around two years. I want into that community. I am going to be saving money starting now! Building a community like that has been a dream of mine for years and years. Thank you for what you do.

  16. If you (or anyone else) are seriously considering getting these next spring, and want to maximize their chances of surviving over the winter,look into swarm trapping.the bees will be free and will be adapted to your area. That is if you already currently have bees in your area.

    I know that many people are worried about Africanized honey bees, but there are people in Texas who are trapping them successfully. There is a basic bookabout swarm trapping available on Amazon. The author is McCartney Taylor. It is a very basic book but will give you everything you need to begin sourcing your own bees. Feral bee may not be in your area but if they are this will go a long way towards sustainability and self-sufficiency.I began doing this 3 years ago with the intentions of having two to three hives now I have 30. I have not bought nebs sense 2010 when I purchased a 2-3 pound packages which failed to overwinter.

    • You should be a guest on the show and explain how you catch the wild swarms…this I’am very interested in!

      • Visit letmbee.com I have trap plans and location tips (for the Midwest). I dont know where ferals concentrate elsewhere. It is all free. I will fill out jacks guest form.

    • We took some classes from a local bee keeper, Jacqueline Freeman, in Washington. She has a list that attendees get on. When people see swarms in the city they call her and she removes them. She goes down her list and you can go with her and collect the swarm. Last year she called us but we didn’t have a hive ready 🙁 I would recommend checking with local bee keepers to see if they do the same thing.

  17. Jack, curious what type of ROI you’re looking at for potentail investors that contribute capital for the initial land purchase. Are they just getting their capital back after 60 months (based on full occupancy) along with the satisfaction that they are contributing to something with great potential, or is there upside for tying up capital/putting it at risk?

    • I need to run a numbers analysis. My thought is a 48-60 month pay back. All additional proceeds go to the community which will be a corporation.

      After that investors would take 20% of revenue and leave 80% behind to develop and manage the community.

      Beyond that if the entire community is profitable (revenue beyond the permanent lease fee) investors would have an acre just like everyone else and take their distribution of that.

      I am going to discuss it with Xavier today. I spoke to my old business partner today and he says he is in on this. I am thinking more and more this can work and be great for all involved.

      There are so many additional revenue streams.

      Product sales
      Educational classes
      Short term resident fees
      Etc.

    • There definitely has to be a number crunching sesh.

      But a short and sweet answer (at least with the way I’m doing it for now) is that yes, there is upside potential. It may not be as dramatic as a new stock like tesla, but it is long term and steady. Imagine a residual income stream that just keeps comin.

      It’s all about long term relationships not immediate capital gains. Just like Jack talked about in terms of thinking differently regarding leasing, people need to see the value of a long term steady residual income vs one time capital gains.

  18. Jack, no questions asked, definitely interested in the 200 acre idea.

    I’m REALLY digging the crowd sourcing type of idea, particularly where the individual investors get value for value.

    I also think, from an investment standpoint, going with “Jack Spirko” is a sound investment decision.

  19. I was sorry to hear your comments about Hungary. From all the information I can get, it is indeed turning into a fascist state.

    It doesn’t matter if the swat team shows up in your house because you are selling raw milk or because you wrote some music the powers that be didn’t like, or because you criticized government policy, or because you have gypsy in your heritage, it’s the same abuse being suffered by the victims.

    In Hungary they have already had purges of people who have any difference of opinion and are now targetting the usual people. It’s sad and scary.

    Hitler did some good things for the German economy at the beginning as well. Somehow, for most of us those things don’t balance out what he did later to cause the deaths of millions, Americans among them. Lest We Forget.

    • Yep I don’t really know the politics about Hungary internally. Thing we have a real problem with though is to say if someone or some country does something wrong it must mean they are wrong across the board.

      The economic moves they are making are incredibly smart.

      So what happens next, their evils are used to lie to people about their smart financial moves. Just like people don’t think we are fascist, our nation is the most neo-fascist nation on the planet. Fascism is an economic system.

      Economic systems are internal, printing and controlling your own currency isn’t fascism. What you do with the currency after it is created, is what makes a nation fascist or not.

  20. In the podcast you mentioned a book on the money system. Where can someone find this book?

  21. Man, I wish I could live in Texas but it’s a little too hot for me. Now I do have a question how many people would see this is a possible Bug out location I mean everything your talking about for $200 or more is lot better then a trying to go it alone and having like minded people to boot already in place sounds good. I’m just wondering if there would be a requirement to live there full time. Again too bad your talking Texas.
    2538 Km/1577 M from my home anyone thinking about something more north let me know.

  22. Jack’s Ecovillage idea seems interesting, and in part because Jack seems like a good business man with good ethics and also because if I have money to invest in something, I am not sure what else to invest in these days. The 25k investment floor seems high for me right now, but I’d have to check how much I have in a credit union account and maybe in several months things could also be different. Maybe something more like 8k could be more tempting and less of a commitment.

    Leasing land also seems interesting as well as option to sell the lease of course. I think I would not be able to live in Texas year round but if I was retired I have to ask if that would be a good place to spend the winter and maybe even I could somehow do stuff there to live off the land so to speak just being there seasonally. I don’t plan to retire for several years, but it also occurs to me economic circumstances could change. Since I am also a musician and like playing in a band that also complicates things in that it seems hard to get a band going and if I am in a band in my area it could be a factor to make it hard to move around as much as might appeal to me otherwise. I guess it could also just be a place I could go for winter vacation, but if I was only sure I could do that, I might want to have a better idea that I could sell the lease and get back the money or that there was a good chance the monthly payments went down to $100. Probably other people who’d want to live there year round would be better occupants than someone like me I guess .. but other than that I would have to discuss all that with people and kick the idea around in my head, but it does catch my attention.

    • Surfivor – I grew up in Dallas and we didn’t have AC until I was 14, and I loved it. I have recently spent time in SE OK, without AC, and got used to it pretty quick. It is hard to get to sleep when it is above 90 degrees, but there are not too many of those days once you get outside of the concrete jungles, but a good fan worked well for me. Plus, the cost of AC now is not as bad as what it used to be. Efficiency of small units has really improved. Plus, the temp does not have to be 76 degrees for me to get to sleep,, and if you are in the heat all day, 76 degrees feels cold. Like they say, though, your mileage may vary.

      As to renting the camper, Jack seemed to say that anything goes, which I am sure is within certain limitations – i.e., no drinking before 9 am, some requirement to wear clothes, etc.

  23. Jack,

    What about say I owned the lease on a lot and put up some kind of small temporary structure like a camper, yurt, cabin, shack or what not with a small woodstove and then possibly rented it out to students or others something like that ?

    • Nope, no sub leasing. You want to live in a shack or a yurt, no problem. But no no sub leasing. This would directly compete with the community doing short term leases.

      Short term lessees won’t have the same rights as long term lessees.

    • However, provided the agreements are in place, a relationship between the leaseholder and the community might could be worked out where a part time resident can provide their house to te community while they are away. The groundskeeper or activities coordinator can upkeep it and provide it as a rental on behalf of the lease holder.

      This is good for people “visiting” or staying or a workshop, or for the people who want to experience the village before they commit to purchasing.

      This is based on you building ur own domicile and provided it is suitable for sub leasing then it could be used in this manner as your asset that you provide to the community forgoing its need to build more “rentals.” The rental fees would be split amicably so both parties benefit.

  24. Would initial investors be granted a acre plot of land as well? What about multi tier investors, 25k, 10k, 5k?

    Why stop at 200 acres? Why not 400? It sounds like this already has alot of interest from the TSP group.

    Since I have never leased in my life nor ever had a 99 year lease. What happens when 99 years is up. Is the lease just renewed or does it revert back to the land owner?

    Hoping for more details on the money side of things. I pitched the idea to my wife and she was really receptive of the idea of land ownership through investing and / or lease. Could be a way our family gains a foothold in Texas.

    • If they are anything like the land lease up here the person leasing to you ie in this case the land leasing company Jack was talking about. Has the ability to renew or cancel depending on the contract signed. I know some people in Northern Ontario got pissed when the natives didn’t renew the lease and the cottage they had spent two generations building was lost. Since they couldn’t move it and had no place to put it. It is pretty easy though to include a clause where the person doing the lease gets the right to renew it if they want indefinitely.

        • Yea I was just wondering, last time I remember hearing of a 99 year lease was the Hong Kong 99 year lease that then reverted back to china. In no way shape or form am I saying or implying the 99 year lease would be some kind of a deal breaker or anything like that. I was merely curious.

        • Given I, you, every investor, every lessee etc. will be DEAD in 99 years there would be no incentive on our end not to make the lease guaranteed renewable, with certain conditions of course.

      • Hawk is right, non issue. A lease is a CONTRACT, in this case a contract that would protect the rights of both parties equitably.

        Frankly this might sound harsh, but anyone that wasn’t willing to be trusting of that once we have said contact drawn up, it isn’t an issue. Why? They don’t get in.

        This community seems very much like it is going to happen, but it will be very voluntarist in nature. There will be limited rules but those that exist will exist on day one, changing any rules will take a 100% vote of the board of owners and all permanent lessees.

        Again though I say, 99 years, you will be DEAD, I will be DEAD, all the investors are going to be DEAD. If after 99 years this community can’t see fit to keep itself going, those who inherited don’t deserve the work, we their, forefathers put into it. Just like our nation.

    • This is all to be determined to a degree.

      1. Would investors get a lot? Yes most likely one. Just one, perhaps if the numbers work investors could choose to buy a second. It all depends on what land we have.

      2. Multi Tier investing. Based on feedback so far I intend to keep the minimum at 25K, in time as I gauge investor interest and availability it might go up. The idea of lots of investors is horrible! First you end up quickly into a world where you are subject to a LOT of shit from the FTC with like a quarter million a year in filing costs to stay legal. It also make the decision making process more complicated.

      It will work this way. Each investor will buy in to a newly formed corporation. Done, they are owners. Equity in said company will be divided up based on how much each party invests. I am going to require though that I get 2 or perhaps 3x equity once all investor capital is recouped.

      “Dividends” will be paid to shareholders on a 48-60 month payback, then move to an agreed upon split of money that stays in the community and money to shareholders in the corporation. If a dividend of 20,000 comes out in a month and one person owns 20% of the company’s equity, well they get 4K that month.

      The community will be expected to make most of its own decisions. The board of owners will have final approval on all major expenditures but will generally follow the recommendations of the lessees if they make sense. Regardless of ownership stake each investor will have one vote on all issues.

      3. What happens after 99 years? Same thing I already said. Given I, you, every investor, every lessee etc. will be DEAD in 99 years there would be no incentive on our end not to make the lease guaranteed renewable, with certain conditions of course.

      4. Why not 400 acres, why not 10,000 it could go on forever? There is a limit to what we can manage as a FIRST project like this. However, based on interest so far, we may be more likely to be looking at 400ish acres. If so great, if we have to settle for less, so be it. We don’t just want land, we want great land for our purposes. In any event I see 25-33% of any property being common area, both distributed and consolidated. That would mean if we found 400 acres and the numbers work, 75-125 acres of common area. Which would allow for 275-325 lessees. That would be bigger than ideal really. But not so large that I would not do it.

      The common area is important because it can generate a LOT of revenue for the community and the owners. Quite a bit would house things lessees use often but much would be for temporary lessees. Small huts and such a person who wanted to live on site could lease for say 90 days. As the community grows successfully more money in equals greater improvements for the permanent lessees. That then results in greater value to your lease if you choose to sell it.

      Last Xavier has proposed that we trade labor against leases. Say you work this month doing something and we say that was 300 dollars of work. So then you don’t owe your lease. I find this with a lager concern complicated not to mention an IRS target. This will be a large company with significant assets.

      Simple solution is to run a payroll. The job of butchering chickens pays a rate of X. You get paid for doing it, done. What you do with said revenue is your business.

      That isn’t to say that there wouldn’t be a HUGE thriving internal economy devoid of this crap. Just that money flowing though the company would be all handled 100% legally. This of course is necessary to protect the invested parties at all levels.

      Think of it this way, inside is Gault’s Gulch. But unlike Gault we do have a relationship with the outside world. Any “money” flowing though that world is treated the way our current world requires. Any private exchange inside our community is protected under that umbrella.

  25. Does the need for air conditioning in Texas mean that an eco village in that area can’t really be off grid because of the high electric draw for A/C units in the summer ?

    I wonder how much an appeal something like that would be for retired or semi retired people who’d want someplace not so cold in the north but don’t want to be there in the summer …

    The idea of $1200 to lease a one acre lot for life and then Jack says if the place does well, the monthly payments could be very low is a very interesting idea for spacious permaculture style land use.

    • Surfivor,
      There are mechanisms that you can use to significantly reduce the amount of A/C you need. If you build a stick frame, it is gonna take a lot of juice to cool. If you build an earth shelter, monolithic dome You will be able to cut that energy use by 2/3. You can then use earth tubes for heating and cooling year round, and that you could run on a deep cycle battery and two solar panels. There are ways around paying for air conditioning. We just aren’t used to them.

    • In 30 years of installing air conditioner systems in east Texas where it’s often 100+ in July & August I have had the pleasure of installing one system using cool tubes. It kept a 1500 square foot house very comfortable all summer with only a fan. Trenches in Texas must be made 10 foot deep for this to work however. Using PVC thin-walled pipe at a spacing of 3 feet a manifold is laid down giving you about 14 BTU per square foot of area in manifold. Air is brought from the living space and distributed through the pipes and returned to the living space via standard duct work. This design is best done BEFORE you ever start building a house!

  26. Ah I have heard that Jar story before. I heard it from a professor in a geology class a few years ago except he didn’t have the professor in the story pour coffe in the jar and instead the guy pours a bottle of beer in the jar. And instead he said “there is always time to share a beer with a friend” or something like that. Makes sense that a geologist would use beer and not coffee, go figure. Also as a side note, we also talked about how the Jar story is great for explaining grain size and water and oil saturation in reservoirs.

  27. The big topics i see are the Jar Story and the “EcoVillage”. I’ve always been fascinated by banker history and loved the 1862 quote so I dug for it and found some interesting things.

    I found it quoted often but no evidence of an original existing anywhere, so I looked for work on it’s authenticity and found yet another thought. It’s was attributed to a man often called “one Hazzard” from English bankers. However this is evidence that we have no original for we don’t even have a full name which would surely be on an original. I found a PHD dissertation on conspiracy theories surrounding money systems that claimed it’s fiction. Further doubt about the quote started as early as the 1890s. Then I found that interesting ‘other thought’.

    In “The Congressional Record” 53rd Congress, Second Session 1894 pg 2224, we find this quote which makes the authenticity rather moot.

    Link to the text: http://tinyurl.com/nsqkj3h

    • oops, lost the quote cause I coded it wrong. Here it is.

      “The evil, then, which started this train of class legislation crept in at a time when the people and the Congress had their whole attention centered upon the civil war. Two celebrated documents outlining this train of legislation as a conspiracy were published about the close of the war; they are know as the Hazzard circular and the Buel circular; they have been published in every reform paper in the land and often read upon this floor. The authenticity of both these circulars has been often challenged, but it never can be again. All question as to the authenticity is barred by the fact that the very conspiracy outlined in those circulars has been enacted into law and now stands as a matter of history.”

      • The Zeitgeist movie is ultimately a gigantic piece of quackery. I was surprised to hear Jack reference it a few years back on one of his very early episodes and very surprised to hear him still reference it.

        For Jack to say christians might get “angry” with the first part of the movie really concerns me. I might be wrong; but if he believes that Christians might be “angry” with the religious section of the movie, its because he believes that the religious section of the movie was correct or mostly correct, or has a few correct and valid points. Which it does not.

        I attempted to watch Zeitgeist a few years ago when it first came out. My reaction, as a christian was not one of anger, but one of annoyance. The kind of annoyance you feel when you see a straw man built up regarding a subject you personally know a lot about and might even be passionate about, by somebody who claims to know what they are talking about. I imagine its the same feeling that Jack would get while listening to Dave Ramsey speak about Retirement Investing and precious metals. And while I ultimately fall on Jacks side when it comes to these subjects, Dave speaks with more wisdom and truth on these subjects than Zeitgeist does during the first section of the movie. There is a way that this movie does make me angry though. And its not because I am challenged and shaken to the core because of the “information” it is rocking my world with, no. I get angry (more like annoyed) when people actually believe this stuff. And the film wasn’t being presented as an opinion, it was presenting false facts.

        I couldn’t believe all of the things this movie got wrong about christianity. I couldn’t believe that he was using english homophones for ancient hebrew and egyptian words. I couldn’t believe so much of what he was saying hinged on Jesus being born on December 25. I don’t know a single, not one, christian that believes that this is Jesus’s actual factual birthdate. Those are the two things I remember most (its been about 4 years since I saw it.)

        After the religious section was over, I turned the movie off. It had ZERO credibility. I’ve heard that I turned the movie of when it started “getting good.” I frankly, to this day, do not care and have my doubts. There are better sources of information. I have a really hard time believing that after getting so much wrong, the maker of this film all of a sudden started getting things right.

        Fortunately the internet if full of people that have very successfully and thoroughly debunked this movie up and down, inside and out. From multiple points of view.

        An Athiest Point of view:
        Brief: http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2008/12/unofficial-atheist-experience-response.html
        Thorough: http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist

        A humor site: http://www.cracked.com/funny-1710-zeitgeist-movie/

        On a similar topic (RE: part one, scroll down the the Religious movie)
        http://www.cracked.com/article_20585_6-famous-documentaries-that-were-shockingly-full-crap.html

        A Theologian who does a really fine job dismantling what the religious portion of the film gets wrong… about ancient Egyptian religions:
        http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2007/12/zeitgeist-of-zeitgeist-movie.html

        In sum, I’m not surprised that the quote may be found. If it can be found, it will be one of the few times I’ve heard the film get something right.

  28. Hi Jack!
    I just listened to this podcast today and, as usual, great show! However, I’d like to encourage you to look at Perone bee hives before you invest in top bar hives. Before I decided what type of hive and beekeeping philosophy (since they really go hand in hand) I was going to use, I bought Warre’s book and also one on top bar hives (by Crowder). The book on top bar hives seemed to require really complicated hive management (i.e. moving the top bars around to control the hive formation based on the time of year and how much honey, brood, pollen, etc. had been gathered). Then I found out about Perone hives and PermApiculture. I loved the name! Anyway, I have a lot of info about it on my blog and some links to other resources online. Unfortunately, Oscar Perone retired and his book has not been translated to English (it doesn’t seem to be available for purchase even in Spanish). There are a few English-speaking people who have studied under him who are spreading the word, but as yet, it’s a small (but dedicated!!) following. The short summary is that you give the bees a large space (significantly larger than top bar hives and Langstroth, etc.), which allows the hive itself to be larger and also healthier (seeing the hive as one organism) and then you let them do what they do. All you do is harvest the honey. I can’t claim to be a beekeeping expert since I’ve only been keeping bees for a few months, but I think Perone is definitely the way to go!!!

  29. Just got a chance to listen to this episode today. I love the idea of the planned community, and am interested in learning more. I’ve been thinking about a bug out/ homestead location in rural Texas. Right now I’m anchored in Houston for a few more year due to my job, but am working on an exit plan!

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