Episode-1607- Listener Feedback for 7-20-15 — 32 Comments

  1. the TSP fast has ended!!!! Welcome back Jack, I hope you had a very restful holiday, we’ve all missed you!

  2. Great to have you back. Hope the vacation was very enjoyable for both you and Dorthy.

  3. I only had the pleasure of meeting Scout twice in person since we were usually separated by 1200 miles. Yet I had the honor of speaking with him often thanks to our many years of work through Project Appleseed.

    He was a wonderful man and remains an exceptional example to us all.

  4. Wooo, welcome back Jack!

    I have not listened to the episode yet, but I wanted to chime in on Comfrey… I am in zone 6b, and in late September of last year I put 10 comfrey cuttings in the ground, ranging in size from very significant parts of crowns about 2″ across, to just little pieces of roots.

    The large pieces all came up within a month, had substantial growth, and then after a few frosts sucked all the nutrients out of their leaves back into the roots. It was unlike anything I have ever seen – the leaves went from enormous leaves to tiny pieces of nothing, not more than a few grams in weight; amazingly efficient at storing those nutrients. The small cuttings did not even come up last year, so I figured they did not make it.

    Then this year 100% of the cuttings came up. Some are in an area where they only get ~4hr of sun per day on the East side, some get ~6hr on the West side, some get no direct sun, and some get full sun. As you might guess, the more sun the better they are doing, but even the 4hr on the East side are huge. Easily several feet in diameter.

    One tip that I have not heard anything mention before is they will flower in June (for me). At that point the stalk falls over and seems to run a bit, perhaps to get the seeds a bit away from the plant. Cut the whole big stalk that has the flowering portion off and use it as mulch and that will make room for a second flush and you will get a larger and more healthy plant. Mine were looking “sad” after they flowered, but I just chopped that part off and the plant exploded again.

    I highly highly recommend Comfrey if you need some ground cover around established trees or want to mine nutrients from one area and put them somewhere else.

  5. I never had the pleasure of meeting Scout, but his death is a great loss to the Appleseed community. I hear that a scholarship fund is being set up for his daughters. I will post back when I get the details.

  6. I have Scout to thank for my TSP experience. I was fortunate enough to have him leading the first Appleseed I went to in 2009. It was such a welcoming atmosphere that I tuned in to an episode of his Rifleman radio show. It was pretty good. Fortunately I tuned in for a second episode with guest Jack Spirko. Since then I have listened to all the episodes of TSP, yes all the way back, and have been on a very interesting journey, with Jack, and the TSP community.

  7. Jack, though I have liked you from the beginning of listening to your podcast, I find that the content is almost exclusively about permaculture. Permaculture is an amazing science which to those who have interest is a great help. I can’t deny that. But, unfortunately for me, I cannot use the content of the Permaculture world at this time. So, it is disappointing to see you run from controversial topics. I can’t question your motives. But, should the wolves arrive, small permaculturalists will surely be on their plates.

    Al Wingate

    • @Al, you speak like a fool here. Nothing follows because it isn’t worth following up any further.

    • Just wanted to chime in here. I thought the same thing too. When I first heard of “Permaculture”, it sounded like nonsense, impractical for many, and not addressing more pressing concerns like personal sovereignty, defense, etc.

      I posted a similar comment, and Jack lit me up with a response, lol. Even though I wasn’t sold on it, I knew Jack wasn’t a fool. It was obvious he was passionate about it. There had to be a reason that I just wasn’t understanding. Even if I disagreed with his reason, I couldn’t make an argument until I understood what he was telling me. Being a common Internet troll and smart-ass, I threw myself into permaculture with the idea “I’m gonna understand this and prove them all wrong”.

      As I got more into the research however, I actually began to understand what Jack was saying. It’s not just about “Plants” & “Gardening”. It’s a philosophy. One I had been following all along, as part of “common sense”. This was just another word for that. It’s branding on a core philosophy, like Big Mac is to Cheeseburger. They gave it a name and controlled presentation. But in essence, it’s all stuff you already know as common sense.

      Even if the agricultural aspect is removed, the same fundamental principals of observation and leveraging natural interactions for cumulative, incidental and tangential gains are applicable in many other areas of life.

      It’s like reading the Sun Tzu. I doubt anyone reading that today harbors fantasies of overtaking an enemy ruler with 10,000 archers. But removed from the literal application, the principal remains relevant, even in the modern world.

      Remove the literal narrative when listening to those shows. When Jack tells you “10 uses for mint”, the lesson isn’t about growing mint. It’s about obtaining multiple benefits from a single resource, or more aptly, building resilience and wealth by building resources which will serve multiple functions. When viewed in that light, it’s not hard to see how you might apply the same principals to other aspects of life. Think of the gardening aspect of it as a baseline metaphor. The fact that the metaphor has a literal application is just an added bonus.

      I also don’t believe he runs from controversial topics. Far from it. He says what he thinks, very matter of factly. He just doesn’t fan the flames to get everyone riled up. That’s a cheap tactic he doesn’t need to employ because the message he’s delivering has substance.

      Besides, I think many people are sick of the political rants that have overrun the media in the last few years. The world doesn’t need another political pundit turned talk show host screaming at the right or left wings like King Canute to the tides. It’s irrelevant and ineffective. His message isn’t about changing the world, but rather fortifying the things you value in your own life so you can weather the storm, regardless of how the world changes. There’s definitely room for that message.

      There aren’t a lot of current event shows anymore (compared to the early days of the show at least). I think that’s the point of the history segment however. Current events aren’t really current. None of this shit is new. Every scandal, conspiracy and mistake has been made before. That’s a departure from other media sources which I appreciate. Rather than a frenzied, emotional response to what happened recently, with unfounded predictions on what will become of the situation “as it unfolds….”, you get an account of what happened the last time we went through it. How it actually played out. Take from that whatever lesson you will. It imparts objectivity to your review of the situation, and I believe, helps us to arrive at more reasonable conclusions about the proper course of action. It’s contemplative rather than seditionary.

      If your objection is simply being disinterested in the subject, he does multiple shows a week, and there is a board in the forums where you can suggest topics. Odds are serious requests will eventually become a show.

      You say “But, should the wolves arrive, small permaculturalists will surely be on their plates.”

      I disagree. In a real survival scenario, the first dead are the urban apartment dwellers who can’t feed themselves. Power is a function of resources, and permculture is about building resources efficiently. And if you think defense isn’t a core function of permaculture, you haven’t been listening.

      If you can’t utilize permculture in the literal sense due to lack of land, get some land and put it to work, or it’s all just talk. You don’t need much. 1/20th of an acre is enough to use this information to some productive ends. A small 5-10 acre homestead in the US costs less than a shitty apartment. The only barriers are an understandable unwillingness to make such a dramatic change, or incarceration, lol 🙂 Not sure what the prison demographic is, but I don’t foresee much interest in the herb-spiral zen garden of cell block D. But if you’re a free man, buying land is an option.

      If it’s a physical disability that prevents you from utilizing this information, well… When the shit hits the fan, you can only go as fast and as far as a hover-round can carry you on a single charge, so sorry dude, you’re zombie fodder 🙂

      All joking aside, I thought as you once. Consider these principals in a broader sense, and judge them on that. If you still disagree with it, that’s up to you. Personally, I would like more permculture shows.

  8. Comfrey is amazing.
    This morning I completed my 5th night of 10 hours shifts at a small 140 bed hospital. It was another crazy busy shift. I fly solo overnight without the assistance of a technician now mostly thanks to our wonderful government. You would probably be surprised how many patients are admitted overnight not to mention 60-70 ER patients that are treated and released. 8 kinetic consults for dosing blood thinners and antibiotics, a cardiac arrest, 3 complicated continuous dialysis patients in the ICU not to mention the unbelievable number of drug shortages mostly caused by government regulation. Give me a break, there is no reason for us to run out of potassium chloride injection…other than government interference. I could rant on but the point is that the stress once again led to my development of an acute gastro intestinal bleed (self diagnosed but trust me). I had the choice of seeking professional care and after all the hoops I know where that would take me…an Rx PPI or H2RA yada yada. It would give me prompt temporary relief, be very expensive and come with several adverse effects including reduced nutrient absorption so in time things like serum magnesium would go down and I would feel even more stressed and the downward spiral would continue. The folks that work in our ER our amazing wonderful caregivers in a broken system so I bypassed them. Instead in spite of extreme exhaustion I took an extra 10 minute drive to my “farm” before the adrenaline of the night wore off. I opted to brew another batch of my magic potion to help heal my stomach. Boiled up some water and added comfrey as I then took some time to de stress while I gathered other goodies to add to my tea…lemon balm, bergamot, spearmint, spicebush and motherwort also very carminative, mildly sedative and great for my almost post traumatic stress like night. I was quickly calmed and soothed by my voodoo brew but lets face it my chest pain was still severe but at least getting better. I took a relaxing stroll sipping on my tea and got a great deal of joy and seeing my little 1 inch calendula sprouts I planted last week. Funny you can’t make this up. I have also had incredible results with comfrey in olive oil. I showed a plastic surgeon a wound it healed and asked him if what he thought about comfrey. I have yet to find a health care provider who knows about comfrey but he was impressed. he even wanted to try it on a wound that hasn’t healed for over a year in spite of good modern medical practices. I give him so info and a sample and await the results. The calendula was added to my quiver to provide antiseptic properties to my comfrey potion…also considering mixing with Prunella vulgaris (Heal all) which also has an amazing spectrum of activity in vitro MRSA,VRE to Psuedomonas…the use of this combo would surely piss off big Pharma. Out of time, hope to continue later.

    • Sorry to hear you had such a bad set of days! I am very new to the whole herbal medicine thing, and all I have right now is comfrey and finally my lemon balm is taking off. Would you be able to share a few words about how you chose what to put into your tea? Comfrey’s tissue healing ability is the only one I know of in regards to a specific healing ability. I would love to hear why you picked the other ingredients.

      • I selected the other ingredients for 3 reasons
        The have calming, mildly sedative and soothing effects. Carminative or stomach settling effects are nice any time but especially after a bit of stress. Second, the spicebush has benzoin and a few other mild antiseptic components, as do the other members of the mint family (thymol, camphor, menthol and several others components). GI bleeding can be associated with bacterial infection although unlikely in my case it is good to know that I may benefit from broad spectrum antibacterial coverage. Effect against Helicobactor pylori?…don’t know but I did heal dramactically well. see my follow up below. Lastly, comfrey has little or no taste and these additives frickin’ taste good. Jack had an awesome episode on mints not long ago in case you missed it. Hope that helps. Also have been eating lots of lambs quarters. Its is a great dynamic accumulator of iron, a better source that its relative spinach. Iron pills are cheap but LQ is even better IMO and come with many other nutrient benefits.

  9. Great show Jack, you seem like you got a good recharge from your break.

    Looking forward to some more shows, now the drought is over.

    Also, just wanted to thankyou for your old podcast, 5 minutes with jack.
    I listened to so many different episodes, when I was working in my day job & took lots of notes. I’ve since started my own business, and it is truly liberating.

  10. @William
    Thank you for the thoughtful analysis. Certainly the points are well made and taken (the ones I agree on, that is). Safety is relative and and I just don’t believe that we can turn our backs to the face of tyranny. I am 70 years old and yes, I probably will become cannon fodder for the zombies. But, I am determined to take a few with me. If my memory serves, Stalin massacred millions of Kulaks (perhaps they were farmers) because they would not vacate their land. Mao did the same thing to farmers in a slightly different way. Oh, he was quick with the sword but did give many a chance to give up their land voluntarily. My wife is Chinese. She lived through the cultural revolution and were told by her parents and grand parents how they were disposed of their land when Mao came to power. I am not so worried about the Zombies (Chomp) as I am the government. And perhaps had permaculture been in vogue at that time those millions of murdered farmers would have survived.

    • Dude if you don’t like the permaculture episodes.. Skip em, if there is an episode covering something that doesn’t strike my interest… That’s what I do.

    • Sorry for the delayed response, I was away. I understand your point about defense, and agree with you 100%. It’s of vital importance, and no one should stand down in the face of tyranny. I’m also no fan of government. Not because of any political agenda I have, but because, as you point out, the greatest threat to a people historically has been their own government.

      I would contend however that there are many ways to increase defense. Permaculture is one of them. Take the simplest example: food production. Food costs are on the rise, the nutritive value has diminished as reckless incentives, taxes and regulation have been virtually destroyed agricultural markets. The methods incentivised also diminish future capacity to produce on the same land. Control of the food supply is not something I would hand over to the government. It’s of vital importance. This is a battle for resources. It’s being waged with ideology now, not arms. But it’s a fight none the less, and one I intend to win.

      Land can be taken, but it only has value if it’s worked. Who better to work it than the farmers who already know it? Land seizure, while not outside of the realm of possibilities, isn’t likely. Frankly, they already have control over all the agricultural lands by means of legislation and incentives. “Grow this and we’ll insure your crop with tax incentives”. People jump on that like it’s free money. It pads their books and helps them turn a profit. What they forget is their being bribed with their own stolen money, lol. Accepting the bribe means doing things the government’s way. And without the incentives, many fail to turn a profit and have to sell their farms. Someone else buys the land and is offered the same bribe. They don’t need an occupying force to control land assets. They already have control and compliance of the citizenry in that regard.

      So where does permaculture fit into this? It gets people growing in non-agricultural lands where the regulations and incentives are removed. In the suburban back yard, one can grow enough to easily feed a family of 3. With a bit of work, on the right lot, they can produce even more than that. This creates resiliency and choice in the food supply, while diminishing the value of government controlled agriculture. It’s actively taking power back from government, and putting it in the hands of individuals, where it belongs.

      Consider the apple crop in the US. Valued at $3.1 Billion per year. Being conservative, about $1 Billion of that ends up as taxes on the land, distribution, and sale of the crop. Given the amount of apples consumed in the US, 1 tree could produce the fresh apples, cider, apple sauce etc consumed by 5 people annually. So if 1 in 5 people plants a single apple tree, that’s a billion dollars which can be removed Uncle Sam’s wallet. More significantly, that’s $9 left in the hands of every man woman and child in country each year, just for one crop. It’s may not seem like much, but only 1 in 5 people have to work for it, and that’s just a single crop. They could do the same for any crop, and most will have many different plants. I’m not saying we’ll ever actually get 1 in 5 people to grow and share their crops freely, that’s pretty optimistic. But a significant number already do this, and the number is growing.

      It’s not the solution to all the grievances I have with government. But it is a way to fight back, retain control over my own food source, eat better, save money, and indulge a hobby.

      Most people could dig a well on their property easily, cheaply, by themselves with no big equipment. Then they have control over their water supply as well. Or use rain catchment… also cheap and easy. Permaculture is very big on water capture and usage. Before you plant anything, you design an excess of water for your needs, and that excess can be used for more than irrigation.

      Home power generation is getting to the point where it’s actually cost-effective and reliable. We don’t need the government and utility companies for that either. Permaculture extends to energy generation and capture. A solar air heater means I don’t need to run a heater in bedrooms during the winter. It also provides a way to heat a greenhouse and keep it above freezing. Saves money, eliminates dependency on the grid, and thus erodes the power of the regulation over that system.

      Medicine is also heavily regulated. Most minor ailments can be treated at home. The one saving grace of the government healthcare clusterfuck is now people are beginning to wake up to this fact. I recently saved a friend from a $90 / month migraine medication by showing them that 3 leaves of feverfew and 5 leaves of meadowsweet in their daily coffee has no off flavors. Just put them in with the coffee grounds and brew a pot. They’re now 6 months without a migraine (for the first time since their childhood), blood pressure has gone down, and they’re set to save about $1000 a year. These are two plants you won’t commonly find in garden centers, but every permaculturist knows of them as they have multiple benefits beyond their medicinal properties. Again, it’s empowering people who are looking for ways to recoil from another area of overexerted government influence.

      Government has a hand in everything through taxation and regulation. Permaculture allows you to remove yourself from many (not all) of those controls. Sure, it won’t stop a militant death-squad from kicking down your door, but that isn’t traditionally how our government has exerted it’s influence over it’s population. That may change, but for now, it addresses a quantifiable threat.

      If there comes a time when they send the military into the homes of farmers (and history has shown us, that can and has happened many times), it’s not permaculture that will save me. In that you are correct. Honestly my guns probably won’t save me, they have more men than I have bullets. Honestly, voting won’t prevent that either. I’ve never seen “domestic death-squad” on any piece of legislation. That’s not how those things happen. Political activism is useless in that scenario.

      I could create a militia, recruit people, train them in a compound out in the woods and lay plans to defend ourselves when the time comes. But there are already groups like that. Where were they when government seized control of healthcare? Prevention isn’t what they’re about either. They at best are responders to events, and some of them who have acted have done truly despicable things in the name of their cause. Though that’s not representative of the movement or the majority of the people, it’s enough to keep a lot of people from participating, rendering those efforts insufficient.

      The pursuit of personal liberty needs to be accessible to everyone, regardless of their political or moral beliefs. Actions don’t need to be dramatic or reactionary. They need to be small but numerous and ever present. Rather than overthrow a tyrant, I’d rather society as a whole, while embracing their own values and ideals will declare a small bit of a would-be tyrants power for themselves and erode away any control which could be leveraged against the people.

      That’s the thing about permaculture… It empowers people in numerous ways. It attracts people from all walks of life, even those who may not agree with one another on anything else. But as more people take to it, even if their intent is simply to grow some fruit trees, it still gives them a little taste of liberation from these regulated systems. A small bit of power and freedom which they make their own. Once they have that, they will never let it go. If you want people to stand up for this country, we have to give them something personal to fight for.

  11. @William: Just a quote from the history place:
    Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands.

    • And that is very personal to me and frankly I know a LOT more about it than you do.

      First farmers didn’t starve. The cause of starvation was the non farmers brought in to run the farms after the “wealthy land owners” were executed. Those wealthy land owners were farmers. The first to die, didn’t starve they were shot in the head or if lucky banished to Siberia. Then “the people” were given the land with no fucking idea how to farm, a recession and a drought added to it.

      Second you know who died next? The bad farmers (well the non farmers) who were summarily executed and replaced with more non farmers, what was produced was then “redistributed” to the cities, leaving many of the half ass farmers and small towners with very little food.

      Third disease moved in on top of starvation. Now the shitty non farmers were dying, the farms produced even less, people starved like crazy specifically the non farmers who were now told they were farmers but could not farm.

      Next a shit load of nations offered foreign aid, but none were part of the Soviet Block, so it was all refused, better to let your own die then admit your philosophy doesn’t work. Besides the shitty farmers could just be replaced as they died, sooner or later the survivors would figure it out an hey we can still feed the cities that are our economic engines, and we can just deport all useless eaters and make sure we can feed those we want to keep.

      That is the real story of Holodomor. Now let us look at some numbers.

      What was the death rate from 32-33 in the Ukraine, it was by best estimates 18%. Let us round it up to 20% that means in one of the greatest modern famines and disease out breaks in the last 400 years, 80% survived.

      Now who do you suppose the survivors were? They were the vast majority of the population whom at the time were what you’d call common peasants. They lived in the foot hills and hills that were not considered good farm land. They tended small plots that were ignored, hunted, fished, foraged, built community and ran small livestock. They built systems that sustained them until the crisis ended.

      Sound familiar?

      How do I know this? My Grandparents immigrated from the Ukraine in the early very early 1900s just ahead of the communist revolution and WWI. They left many behind, many members of my family died and many survived those years. Some got out when things got better, some ended up making a go of it and ending up behind the iron curtain.

      Perhaps you don’t know half as much as you think you know? Or as one of my favorite people once said,

      “It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” ~ Mark Twain

      It was permaculture style living that saved the 80%. It was the same that created anarcho self organizing communities in Siberia that today are thriving villages and towns.

      • Also let us look at the last 20 episodes?

        1607 topic the economy (yet to be published)
        1606 variety show, perhaps 50% ag/perm
        1607 subject strategic relocation
        1605 subject designing society really not permaculture, highly anti political
        1604 variety show, only one topic ag/perm
        1603 expert show, only 3 of the 13 are ag folks
        1602 topic bio char yes that is permaculture
        1601 topic dogs for security
        1600 goats yes permaculture
        1599 expert show, only 3 of the 13 are ag folks
        1598 topic suppressors for firearms
        1597 topic managing chaos in your life
        1596 topic bow hunting deer
        1595 variety show, only half the topics are somewhat permaculture
        1594 expert show, only 3 of the 13 are ag folks
        1593 variety show, again about half homesteading/ag/perm stuff
        1592 Ben Hewitt on yes permaculture
        1591 variety show no permaculture at all
        1590 variety show almost all political no permaculture
        1589 variety show calls and experts may be 25% homestead stuff/permaculture

        In other words when you said this, “Jack, though I have liked you from the beginning of listening to your podcast, I find that the content is almost exclusively about permaculture.” you were full of shit sir!

      • @Jack

        Interesting article which sheds light on the subject. I would contend however that a 20 percent death rate is a huge number, no not 100%. Thanks for the breakdown on the show subjects. I do skip shows that do not pique my interest. As to what I know, Jack. You really don’t know what I know. Leave it at that. History is filled with this kind of human slaughter. The Armenian holocaust was just recognized and I am sure you know the history about the 1.5 million people who were killed by Islamic Turks. All in all, let’s just say I cry “uncle” and leave it at that.

        • You should cry uncle.

          You made a point using a historic event and said point was totally invalid. You made a claim about the show, also totally invalid. I don’t want you to cry uncle I want you to admit you were full of shit. I may not know what you know, I do know that you spoke about something you didn’t know the square root of fuck all about to make a completely invalid point.

          I also know I don’t mind criticism at all. I do mind being accused of something and criticized for something that isn’t accurate. That is what you did, that is why I have no time for your bullshit and why I am being an asshole about it. If I said things about you that were untrue, you would do the same.

          You really do need to learn more about permaculture thinking, from what I say here that statement is very accurate if you hope to survive that which you clearly fear.

  12. The Seattle story seems to be not just caused by economic forces. The city planners have taken it upon themselves to advocate large scale rezoning of the city. I do not get the sense that people are clamoring for rezoning to be done but I am seeing plans coming down from the top with regard to zoning and not just in Seattle. A small city near where I live just came out in favor of increasing population density and to build “complete streets” which are streets that accommodate much more bicycles and create more traffic. There is no grass roots effort going on. The town is getting a grant from the Federal govt to build “complete streets” as are cities all over the country

    one website indicates the draft proposal was done ins secret and mentions:
    -> The draft letter says that single-family zoning has “roots in racial and class exclusion.

    Why would we assume if downward class migration was the only issue that people would need to move to cities and live closer together ?

    • When you read a government report you are seeing the infomercial for the product.

      The purpose of the ginsu knife is to slice a tomato thin after cutting dry wall and a can. The purpose is to give you a great deal on a great product, call now, call now, get two for the price of one, call now.

      The people selling the ginsu know it is a POS but develop a clever story with a practiced expert in cutting, slicing and selling. The purpose of the infomercial is to make the people behind it lots of money, not to slice tomatoes and the knife doesn’t even do that well, they just convince you it does.

      Think about this when you read anything published by government.

      Governments DO NOT see a problem for their people and seek to solve it.

      Government first see a problem for themselves, they then formulate a solution for THEIR problem, they then create a series of problems that do seem to at least effect the people and use that to sell the solution to their problem to the people as a solution to said people’s problem.

  13. Jack, I have heard you say that duck meat has similarities to beef. Would you make biltong out of duck meat?

    • Muscovy duck meat is similar to beef not all duck but no I would not make duck biltong.

  14. On the comment about home prices in Texas outside the cities…. I can vouch for what jack said. The home I will be buying is ABOUT the same distance outside Austin as my previous home was outside of Chicago (which is to say, about 1 hour out)…. The home in Texas (while somewhat nicer in construction) is about the same square footage, but $100k more than the home I just sold.

  15. It seemed like a strange coincidence that you mentioned Appleseed project in today’s episode, however unfortunate for the reason it came up, as I had just returned from my first Appleseed event. I decided to attend after hearing you mention it on an earlier show and greatly enjoyed it, despite being humbled. Thanks for the recommendation and thank you for all your insight and teaching.

  16. Comfrey follow up
    First, the FDA does not approve of the internal use of comfrey…but it is still a free country I think…so use your best judgement.
    Day 5 sucked as noted above and my stomach clearly started bleeding. BM that morning went from normal shit to black tarry stool in rather dramatic fashion…yeah gross but don’t need a hemocult to confirm bleeding IMO. Now over 36 hours and 2 “doses” of my voodoo potion my BM have returned to normal and chest pain has been resolved. Symptoms were not covered up with a GI cocktail and acid blocked with modern medicine to provide some relief but actually healed on the cellular level. I’m still tired but not ready to curl up in the fetal position and give up. Also I estimate I saved at least $250 by self treatment which means another ~ $125 in taxes not paid…sucks for big pharma and big gov.