Episode-1386- Listener Feedback from Zello Users 7-14-14 — 38 Comments

  1. Awesome idea Jack! The Zello community says thank you and please don’t be a stranger on Zello. Thanks for taking my question on permaculture farm financing. I’m still stuck driving a desk for a living so I haven’t had a chance to listen to your answer. Taking small steps daily toward farming. Also, I’d like to give a shout out to PA Prepper our chief moderator on Zello. I thought he did a great job of making today’s show happen. Thanks Jack!!

  2. Conflicted Monday: I haven’t listened to the show yet but I don’t think “drugs” would be a good idea unless they could be used as pain killers. MJ would be fine. I wouldn’t take them just as a store of value unless they could be spent immediately.

    • I’m having the same problem with this one. The only case that comes to mind as ‘addictive and harmful’ without any (known to me) beneficial use would be methamphetamines. As I don’t think ‘ADHD’ would really be a problem post collapse.. 😉

      So my answer is ‘if it is (potentially) useful to me.. sure.’ For example, I would imagine opiates would prove handy as painkillers in extreme situations. And although pot is INCREDIBLY ADDICTIVE (!!!!) and causes genital warts.. I would imagine it could prove to be useful for pain management and recreational use.

      So.. I’m not concerned with the pre-collapse legality.. just the usefulness, and rarity, of the substance.

      • I was thinking the same thing, many of the opiates are great painkillers. If someone in my party gets a deep cut that I have to try and sew back together, and I have some idea of correct dosing for a non-addict, I sure as heck would administer that before running their leg through the Singer. 😉

        Even for methamphetamine, I could see a good use case for them in extreme emergencies. For example, aren’t biker gangs known to use them to stay awake for several days at a time? If you are in a situation where you absolutely must walk 20 hours somewhere, and 20 hours back or your whole party is going to die – take that once and do what you gota do. Your battleaxe doesn’t feel nearly as heavy cleaving zombie heads off after a good bit of meth!

        Also a funny side – I read “pot causes genital warts,” and for several seconds I said “holy crap, really!? Why haven’t I heard of this!” Then it clicked… Humor. Does not compute, beep beep.

      • I have only two concerns.

        A. Is there a market for it.
        B. Is it a market I would want to be in. (The market for the drugs could be very different than it is today).

        For example if everything was the same as it is today, but all of a sudden “things are legal” I wouldn’t want to get in the business of meth, if anything purely and exclusively because, the last people I want to do business with are people on meth. Really the same is with any drug. Legal or not, at least for me I couldn’t see dealing business with a “junkie”.

      • Overall, I would say no, don’t trade for illegal drugs. Unless I had a need for the type of drugs (ex. morphine, Oxy, etc.), I would avoid the whole thing. There’s a reason that most murders involve drug transactions, and it’s because the people who traffic drugs are career criminals. Do you really want to introduce yourself to this element of society and let them know that you have something worth stealing? The post-apocalyptic world would be dangerous enough without inviting trouble like this. Unless there was no alternative, I would steer clear of this type of risk.

    • I would agree with only taking them for trade if there was a need for medicinal reasons. I didn’t know pot gave you genital warts, I thought you only got them by riding a tractor naked.

    • Would I take drugs in trade? Assuming they are not something I need for either legit pain (I get kidney pain a few times a year) I would take them only if they were good in trade. And I would have no major issue with it.

      Think in prison, POW and criminal. Even guys who do not smoke take cigarettes in trade for things.

  3. Jack,

    Sorry you feel so crummy. Sounds like influenza to me. Maybe the infamous swine flu. Hope you feel better.

    • This ain’t flu I know the flu and this ain’t it. Some have suggested salmonella and they may very well be right. All the pain is intestinal, the symptoms are a perfect match. Key is no matter what I am on the down hill with it now and getting better but still not there yet.

  4. As a physician, anything that would have a potential positive pharmocological use would be fair game.

  5. Conflicted monday: might be somewhat useful in the collapse scenario, as a form of currency. Light weight, valuable, easy to trade for goods you want.

    But on the other hand — how can someone check if the stuff he’s really getting a specific drug, and not baking powder mixed with dishwasher soap?

    Today I believe it wouldn’t be very useful and because of that, my answer would be: no, I wouldn’t take drugs as a form of payment. But that might change if the drug was easily recognizable, the price I was getting was really good, and I knew it was possible to pay someone with the drug for the goods I need.

  6. Newland from New Zealand here jack. TSPN ZELLOW are my family . You plus THEM have helped me sooo very much. there has been time’s my zellow family has helped me 1000x more than my own family would and i can never re pay that. and JACK they made (MADE) me feel like i was at home…………thank you THANK YOU PA just say hi to them all

  7. Hope you get your gut fauna back in check soon, Jack!
    Good show regardless, thanks for keeping the information flowing!

  8. On conflicted Monday: it would be a great barter item since anything that offers escape seem to be of high value in disaster scenarios (think books and alcohol during Serbia). I would however not take it, on the account that it still has the possible addictive and harmful trait attached to it. I would have to trade it with someone I might know later on. If something happens to them, part of it would be on my hands. If my neighbor, who I value and am friends with, dies in any way related to the substance I would not want his children to have that hatred towards me.

    I do understand that something similar might be said for alcohol, mj, cigarettes and a slew of big pharma meds…I would not want to be selling big pharma meds either, even in the present day. just my opinion.

  9. Conflicted Monday
    My answer is one we did this question on zello once and I think it is as poorly worded now as I did then. Two, the course of action is guided by a couple of things.
    One is there any sort of law enforcement apparatus in your area? If so, what are their feelings on these drugs? (This is something you have to know before hand, you cant go asking them questions like this)
    What kind of drug or drugs are we talking? Bathtub crack or morphine, lortab, or other types of prescription only drugs that would technically be illegal before a collapse with out a prescription?
    Does this person have a likely and believable reason to have those drugs? Like they are a pharmacist or doctor or paramedic or janitor at a pharmaceuticals company who grabbed what they could on their way out of work for the last time? Or are they someone who has a small eccletic collection of a variety of abusables and no reason they are willing to share with you as to how they got it.
    How vauable and in demand are the drugs compatrd to how public the trade is? Does this trade put you at risk of others or even the trader himself trying to steal the drugs from you?
    Most medicines are usually ok past their expity date bit some are not and additionally, they way a medicine is stored can effect its safety or potency. Do you know enough to one verify that the drug or drugs or drugs in question are wholesome and are in fact what they are said to be?
    Do you know or have access to the knowledge of how to safely use them medically?
    Can you secure the drugs from people that might want to steal them at an acceptable level of risk to yourself and others?
    Finally, do you know enough about the drug or drugs to determine if you are getting a good deal in the trade?
    I cant tell you what i would do out of hand, but that is how I would make my decision.

  10. Also,
    What is the culture of the area you are trading in? If its very )anti drug” and everyone is in everyone’s biznazz, it may be a trade you want to pass on because professional biznazz minders tend to assume the worst about everything and will not think are trading chickens for morphine so you have it to help them if they break their leg and need pain relief, they will assume you are trying to get all Walter White on them and mind even more of your biznazz. This kind of falls in under is there any sort of law enforcement in the area but distinct enough to get its own mention.
    Also culturally speaking, its worth considering the way the community might react to you if something negative happens related to the drugs even something that logocally has not direct connection to you other than the drugs AMD that your traded for them. Like the example above where someone dies due being addicted to the drugs or some crap like that. The community may view you as a bad person which could result in strained community relations at least and possibly ending up on the wrong end of an angry mob. Aint nobody got the for that.

  11. I highly agree with the recommendations about what to do with that area becoming forest.

    Clearing an established forest, is EXTREMELY difficult once its established, unless you’re full on bulldozing it. The copping definitely cannot be understated. The area I cleared by hand about the size of a quarter acre, has been ravaged by my goats I think 3 times now and its just a mini jungle.

  12. BTW, regarding re-using egg cartons and selling eggs… We live in NC. There is something called the NC egg law which contains this language: “…a producer marketing eggs of his own production shall be exempt from this section when such marketing occurs on the premises where the eggs are produced, processed, or when ungraded sales do not exceed 30 dozen per week.” We have 70 laying hens (3 age groups/moulting status/lay rates) and we still fall under this exemption. Our practice is to re-use cartons with all the writing crossed out with a marker. We got printed address labels from Vistaprint with the information required by the egg law and use one per carton. We also write the _packing date_ (not “best by” date) on the label. That’s how we do it.

  13. Jack where did you get this information regarding depreciation of trees?

    I went and spoke with an accountant about this specific topic with starting a nursery and he said its an either or. You either do it the first year, or select the deprecation out of whatever time period you choose.

    He also indicated that you could transfer the assets to the company after the fact, and use that as a deduction. So for example its on your property, you own them, and put them in the ground. Later you “sell” the assets to your LLC company, that would be an expense paid by the LLC.


    • After doing a little arm-chair irs research, I think the major difference perhaps is a nursery probably isn’t farming. Definitely see here in the IRS regs about trees/vines. 10 or 20 years depreciation, depending on the depreciation technique used.

      I’d think nursery stock is a tad different. I mean hell you can run a nursery without even planting anything….

        • Could planting “nursery stock” for the “nursery arm” help with this? Good ol’ dual purposes. More of my uneducated arm-chair IRS work would probably indicate that the “guidance” would be where the primary source of income from the objects is. But then again, I’m not 100% sure how that would prevent you from being able to do that.

        • That is very cool.
          Think “adopt a tree”. Want to talk about having stake holders?

          What about people who own the physical property and “lease” it to the company? How exactly you “lease” it who knows. But I guess like insidious says you could “lease to own”. They purchase the product, “pay for its planting” (or maybe come and put it in), then permaethos eventually owns the property.

          In order to run your business you’d have to occur those business expenses.

  14. Most illegal drugs are have a medical purpose. I would have to say it can not be an all or nothing issue. You have to weigh the medical (Pharmacology) training or ability that is available and determine the type of drugs available verse the uses they have and the needs of my group or ally groups. Being a Combat Medic I have different skills in the pharmacy than a ICU nurse or a family practice provider. There will be cross over but I deal 90%+ in severe trauma with a little knowledge of long term care. I hardly ever anesthetize but when I do I range from Motrin, Morphine or lidocaine depending on what I am treating. So if I don’t have the skill or know where I can gain the skill to deal in the drug being offered I would have to tell them that I can not trade in said drugs. My morals and ethics direct my actions. I don’t believe in black and white in this issue.

  15. Another use for used egg cartons (the paper ones) tear the top off and set the bottom by your dryer. Fill the egg holders with lint and when it is full fill and cover the lint with wax. After it dries cut them into twelve different peices and they work very well as a camp fire starter.

  16. Conflicted Monday: Dental pain is going to be a real sore spot. Liquid injectable lidocaine has a very short shelf life compared to solids like pills. There isnt a good substitute for numbing of the gums either I dont think. Cocaine is in the same family I believe as lidocaine, so maybe that is something to look into. The real problem I see is that both street and pharmaceutical quality drugs can be tampered with and adulterated. Pills can be soaked, shaved, even faked completely. Besides, it is one thing to acquire a drug through barter, I would imagine it would be a whole new level of desperation to have to give those drugs to a loved one or an ill child in your care. I just don’t know if I could do it. It would have to be a life or death situation I would imagine before I would take a chance like that and I don’t know if I could then. Sounds like a good time to pray.

  17. I know everyone loves conflicted Mondays. Did you all know there’s a giveaway for 3 decks on

    While you’re there checking things out come visit us on Zello too. I’m leosmike, but all the regulars are friendly folks and we spend a lot of time talking about the podcast, preparedness, and what we’re doing to make progress in our own lives towards a future with more freedom.