Episode-1349- Listener Feedback for 5-19-14
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Today on the Survival Podcast I take your comments, questions and thoughts on, survival scenarios, OPSEC, coffee, economics, LEOs, Bitcoin and more.
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- Conflicted Monday – My take on last week
- Conflicted Monday – OPSEC Pre Collapse
- Why TSP won’t change to meet what some people want it to be
- Am I a terrible prepper, I guess when it comes to coffee I am, LOL
- Is statism a religion, I say yes, what do you say
- Should fast food workers all get a minimum of 15 an hour, um, ah, no!
- Bitcoin moves further toward acceptance with PayPal, just like I said
- How not to stick up for your rights with the police (epic fail)
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- Old Grouch’s Military Surplus – (MSB Discount Vendor of the Day)
- Kerry Tells Yale Grads to Have Faith in Government
- Fast Food Workers Want 15 Bucks and a Union
- Cop Breaks Woman’s Window, With Cause I Might Add
Today’s Conflicted Monday Scenario
How can you tell others about the need to prepare without making yourself a target for unwanted visitors in the future?
Last Week’s Conflicted Monday Scenario
Describe the ideal post-apocalyptic community with less than 30 people. What key skills would everyone have? What would the role structure look like and how would you run the camp if you were the leader?
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Jack, sometimes I disagree with you and think you’re full of shit, but sometimes you’re just flat out brilliant. Don’t change the show… except for the history segment 🙂 jk
Love what you do. keep it up!!
Jack I was being sarcastic about the the million a year LOL, I myself worked at Dairy Queen for one summer when I was 15 and like you said I did everything in the store but paper work, I made $3.15 an hour and it took me exactly one day to realize this isn’t where I want to work LOL not only did the pay suck but so did the rest of it! But I was saving up for a new deer rifle so I toughed it out for a summer.
People will always find something to complain about. You can’t make everyone happy and nor should you try. Thanks for being real with us and please keep the show the way it is. I respect you a lot more because you are yourself rather than trying to be a people-pleaser. Keep up the good work.
So my attempt to surprise you with coffee was foiled by the notification system that is part of excellent customer service that we provide to our customers? Never again! No notifications for anyone!
Yep and seriously I did really hold off on my order to see what you had sent first. LOL
If you were an ass kisser I’d dump the show. Only reason I didn’t find you til this year was I’d ‘gone tropo’ from the phony ‘civilized’ world around me and I stumbled on your name on a forum. Let me guess, another schmuck w a pitch… ‘Teacup’ critics can shove off. Thanks for the authenticity and inspiration.
I totally agree with about the video, I thought the cop was pretty cool headed through the whole thing and that woman was should be made to wear the Stupid sign LOL!
Now, this is why I like listening to you. I disagree on some things as you said but I really like your take on disagreeing with me if I did 2hrs a day like you do.
Best example I have heard in a long time.. Keep it up.
I agree on the video comments. Personally, I don’t think we should have any government at all pulling people over for arbitrary amounts over a specific speed limit, or because a tail light is out. But, the officer did what was correct with regard to the law as it currently is. And, even if someone doesn’t think these laws should exist, I’m not sure what she was hoping to accomplish. It’s not as if the officer was going to de-escalate on his own and just go away without bothering with the citation…. that never happens.
RE# The cop video
Given that the lady was not presenting a threat, other than non-compliance to the foolish request to lower a non-tinted window entirely, I’d say the cop should’ve at least tried to ticket her by passing the board through the half-opened window. The whole argument that the half open window was unsafe for the cop holds not water. If the lady still refused to sign, then inform her that she is being detained, and if need be, break the window.
If the cop felt that this lady’s conduct was threatening to his life, and not just his ego, then he should not have tried to hold on to the window but instead retreated to cover.
If the officer’s life was being threatened, he would be doing a whole lot more than breaking a window. Officers are permitted to use reasonable force to effect an arrest. Sometimes that force is only a ticket. Sometimes it’s handcuffs and a ride in a police car. But other times it might involve a baton, taser, getting tackled or broken windows. If you flee from arrest, you will be chased. If you punch an officer while being arrested, you can be struck back or tased. And if you barricade yourself in a structure or vehicle, the officer has the right to remove the barricade and bring you out. That’s what this officer did and he was right to do so.
Rewatch the video and pay attention to when the officer says “step out of the vehicle”. Right at that moment, the signing of the citation became a side issue. The new issue at hand was failure to obey the order of an officer pursuant to *lawful* arrest. From that point on this situation became about her refusing to get out of the vehicle to complete the arrest. And when she decided to roll her window back up she was barricading herself to prevent being arrested. The officer was entirely within his rights to break the barricade to bring her out.
And to reiterate, if the officer’s life was in jeopardy, he would be doing much more than asking her to roll the window down completely.
The cop made it an issue by focusing on the window instead of issuing the ticket which he could have done by passing the board through the half-open window.
I’m not cutting any slack to the driver, but neither to the cop.
He didn’t make an issue, he gave a 100% legal and lawful order. Law is on the cops side here. If we are going to stand up for rights and the law we had better know both. This girl didn’t be stupid and do as she did and I will have ZERO sympathy for how badly it Fs up your life.
I’m not arguing the woman’s case. But if the stop was about an infraction, give the ticket and move on. Why dwell on a half-open window? Give the woman the freaking notepad to sign the ticket and go catch some real criminals.
Here is another case, this time a veteran killed at traffic stop:
Maybe this should have complied fully too.
You don’t allow a ticket book out of your control, ever. An officer is civily and criminally liable for the loss or destruction of the tickets. If the ticket must be signed, then she can go with option 1, which is to roll the window down far enough for the officer to hold the clipboard where she can sign, and then be releasd from custody at the scene, or option 2, which she chose, and go to jail.
That doesn’t matter tho. The moment he told her to step out of the car and she refused the whole clipboard issue stopped mattering. From that point on the incident became about her disobeying a lawful order.
The cop should have not focused on the window so much but that does not matter. She was being detained and had to comply with his lawful orders including rolling the window all the way down.
Actually as Ragnar said, the second he said get out of the vehicle, the window became secondary.
Not to mention read the above comments, officers are NOT ALLOWED to hand you the clip board. They are to hold it while it is being signed. Again what you don’t know can hurt you.
Imagine for a minute that the person driving the car that got stopped for a busted tailgate light was a 250 lbs, 6’4″ veteran that just got back from the front line. Perhaps he suffers from PTSD, perhaps he is just having a crappy day and doesn’t feel like putting up with Jr. Most likely the cop would have called for backup if the driver refused to comply. The driver would have then been dragged out of the car, tassed and beat and if he put more resistance probably made himself the recipient of a couple of 185 gr., .40 S&W magazines. And then, I think this forum would be pretty freaking pissed off. But hey , the laws says the cop can use any necessary force to arrest a person. Right? So, so long as we are all cool with that, lets throw this cop a hero’s party. Just saying…
RE# having to sign the ticket or the world comes to an end line of thinking, has anyone ever gotten a mail ticket for running a red that had a camera? How did that happen without a cop or a detention or all the silly drama about a half opened window?
There’s the law and there’s common sense, and everything in between has to be carefully weighed against life, both the cop’s and the citizen. It’s not like cops get a water gun when they graduate the academy, so I damn well expect them to be double judicious before they choose to follow a path that will paint them into a corner and have to shoot or hurt someone over something as stupid as a busted tail light.
First imagine that Jose is holding one cop responsible for another cop’s abuse. Oh wait I don’t have to imagine that, I am seeing it happen right here.
Now if you don’t want to get out of a car when you are told to by a cop who stops you for a violation, guess what, don’t drive a car. If you are mentally incapable of rolling your window down you are not fit to drive and deal with being cut off, having to merge into fast moving traffic etc.
Learn the law or don’t give advice on what people should or should not do in regard to it.
Totally agree with your take on the video Jack. I think a lot of people see YouTube videos and read forums posts and get this idea that the “Am I being detained?” question is some magical trump card that will make all police give up and go away. And in some situations it can be and is, such as someone lawfully open carrying a firearm. I’m a member of a number of firearms forums and I see the “am I being detained?” question suggested over and over and over as a way to stand up for your rights and force the officer to do the right thing. And again, in some instances that’s exactly what you should do and God willing the officer is smart enough to know that he’s stepped over the line, will back off, and hopefully go away from that with a better understanding of what his job is and what authority that carries and doesn’t carry.
BUT everyone needs to be aware: the moment the officer says “yes” to that question, you need to comply. The time to fight for your rights is now in court. That officer may be entirely wrong and may very well be unlawfully detaining or arresting you. Fight it in court, not on the street.
My understanding of the “Am I being detained question?” is that the minute the answer is yes, you have the RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT and be questioned with an attorney present.
Well of course you do but that doesn’t preclude you from being asked a question only from having to answer it. It also doesn’t have a thing to do with lower the window or get out of the car.
Also if you lawyer up during a traffic ticket you may very well find yourself on route to jail. Why? It makes no sense to the officer, all he is going to do is run your ID, make sure you have no warrants and release you. And you say “I don’t want to speak to you with out a lawyer”. Well there is only one way to get that lawyer to be present, that is take you into custody.
We really need to balance our rights AND OUR common sense.
I mean if I get pulled over for speeding and am asked where are your going, I have every right to say, I am sorry sir but that isn’t your business. I can and I guarantee you I am likely to get the ticket. If I say, well I was on my way home and just didn’t realize I was speeding, I may very well get a warning. I may still get the ticket and I might not, but “none of your business” will usually get a smirk, a ticket and a walk around to see if there is anything else the smart ass can be written up for.
You’re right, the moment he says “yes” to “Am I being detained”, you do have the right to remain silent and ask for an attorney. But the officer also has the authority to take you into custody, place you in handcuffs, take you to jail AND use the minimum amount of force necessary to achieve all of that. And if you make breaking your window and putting you on the ground necessary, he’s going to do that.
You certainly have the right to force any police officer to play the whole thing out by the book, and he’s required to do so. But that doesn’t mean it’s always the smart thing to do. Sometimes playing it out by the book can mean handcuffing you, towing your car, putting you in a holding cell and charging you to the maximum extent of the law. You can certainly play roadside lawyer and make him jump through all those hoops. That’s your right. But who really wins in that? At the end of the day you’re the guy sitting in a jail cell waiting for a lawyer and he still goes home at the end of the shift. As Jack said, you need to balance your Rights with common sense. “What can I say or do that will end this encounter as quickly as possible with the least impact on my life” is the question you need to ask yourself. Now if doing that quick easy thing is letting a cop trample your rights, act outside the law, hassle you for nothing, etc than standing up for your rights (through going to jail and then contesting the officer’s action in court) may be the best thing you can do. But if the officer IS being lawful and giving you lawful orders as permitted him by state law, then sometimes you need to bite the bullet and just say “Yeah I was speeding” roll your window down and sign the citation.
Don’t bite off more than you can chew. “Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber bullet” as the saying goes. If you’re going to go toe to toe with a cop on the street and start battling “rights vs. police authority” make sure you’re actually on the right side of the law. That’s where the open carry types have it figured out. They know that they’re in the right. So holding their ground and saying “No you can’t have my ID” is the right thing to do. They’re legally justified. But that doesn’t apply to this woman. SHE WAS BREAKING THE LAW. The cop DID have the authority to stop her, have her roll down the window, order her out of the car, etc. And when she disobeyed a lawful order to get out of the car, he had the authority to use force. Don’t get into a legalese fight with a cop when you know you’re actually in the wrong. You’re going to lose, as you should, and it’s going to end up making your day far worse.
And even the open carry baiting has bad consequences. We have a group in Arlington Texas that kept doing it. Now the Arlington city council has pass a law forbidding open carry in certain areas under certain circumstances.
Unintended consequences can go both ways. Now there is effectively a law that never had to exist. Why, people made making a point more important than common sense.
Jack you totally nailed why I don’t listen to much AM radio anymore. It’s all commercials. Even the shows are loaded with commercials. The host will whore any advertiser that cuts a check. Frankly after listening to TSP and the quality of advertisers on here it’s hard to listen or trust other shows and ads. Their tactics are painfully obvious and worse is the host never using the product they pitch. Jack, keep doing what your doing.
Just when I thought you could not make a better Podcast: YOU TOTAL REDEAM YOURSELF. You were spot on throughout the entire show. A lot of areas of critical thinking was placed throughout the show. I hated the hear it end. Keep up the good work.
I ready to get my place on the PDC, just waiting to hit the enter button.
I was so excited I ment to say: TOTALY REDEAM YOURSELF. not Total….
You make me a proud MSB member.
Original founder of Paypal Peter Thiel is famous libertarian. Early history of PayPal and it’s original intentions are pretty fascinating. In my hedge fund days I worked with two former head traders of Clarium so had some intimate details of Thiel’s life and history.
One thing I noticed in the video. Even when the cop pulled her out of the car and put her on the ground you could see that he was being very careful to put her gently on the ground, and afterwards he helped her up. He was definitely trying his best to make sure she wasn’t injured…
Some cops would have used her non compliance as an excuse to cause injury. Those are the ones e need to get rid of.
Being yourself works, so that’s a good reason to keep doing it! I love the show the way it is, it’s helped me so much because I learn from and and mostly agree with you. If I don’t, it’s no big deal and I respect your opinion. Einstein said his formula for success is “work hard, play hard and keep your mouth shut.” He recommended keeping your mouth shut because otherwise you are going to lose credibility by running your mouth and inevitably contradicting yourself. Well, you have no choice but to run your mouth in your chosen business…..and you do a really great job not contradicting yourself! Congrats and keep up the good work. I LOVE 99.9% of your topics….
Pagan…In the words of Dan Ackroyd
People Against Goodness and Normalcy
Awe spoof movies. Seriously Pagan’s by and large are the most normal humans I have ever met.
Levity comment, love Dan Ackroyd and I crack up everytime I hear Pagan
1) At $15/hour….. their replacement will be a touch screen and a conveyer belt.
2) Jack, your assumptions of me…. spot on 😛
You know what point one is a good one! We are headed that way already! Soon most FF places will have about 1/10th to 1/20th of the current staff requirements.
An automated system would likely have better order accuracy and quality anyway on this type of food.
Jamba Juice has been demoing a “Store in a box” concept… the entire location is basically one giant robot.
Here is my source on that last comment:
I will agree that many service jobs will be automated in the coming years… check out the hamburger robot link. http://www.businessinsider.com/burger-robot-could-revolutionize-fast-food-industry-2012-11
That said here is my take one the minimum wage. IF a family of 4 has one wage earner working a 40 hour week AND they still qualify for government benefits THEN the employer is getting an indirect subsidy from the government.
Raise the minimum wage or cut the benefits and things will sort themselves out fairly quickly.
I am still shaking my head over someone wanting you to change the show, especially the history segment. I worked at a radio station for six years, and we got the same calls on a live show for the host to do this or that. The host always claimed more people listened when he pissed them off, as the average American was too conditioned to being spoon-fed anything than standing up for themselves or affecting their own lives (Google the video were people are trapped…TRAPPED! on the escalator in a building somewhere, bitching that no one was showing up to help them). Which leads us to statism. Im torn as to if the average head bobber believes so much in government because they actually think government knows best, or they are too cowardly to take control and responsibility for own lives, and cede that to someone else. In any case, those folks could be screwed as any foxhole conversions might be too late.
I too like the history segment. Can’t wait until we get to the year Jack was born. What a show that would be
Personally, I cannot wait until the history section of episode 2012 …. The mayan apocalypse that wasn’t 🙂
Re. Police video : no matter the excuse this represents everything wrong with this police state government. The the if, I mean officer is taking money at the point of a gun, and is willing to jail and even kill if a person does not give it. If the dumb ass stuck his fingers in the window its his problem. He chose escilate the situation over no offence that damaged any person or property . And yet, he damaged private property andharmed another human over his choice to take from another what was not his. He also never stated the law he was acting under. Roll down the window for his safety. Ih, f***king please give us a break !
Jack you say its wrong to take from one at the point of a gun, but here you think the problem is the stupid private person. Is there a consistancy problem here? Theft is theft no matter who you are.
@Scott you are just being dim for the purpose of trying to make a point and failing while doing so.
There is the world as I think it should be, then there is the world as it is.
Do I think you should get a ticket from a cop for a tail light? No.
Do you if they want to give you one? Yes.
Do they have the legal right to detain you for it? Yes.
Did the cop follow the law and traing? Yes.
Was the woman being stupid, was she wrong and did she think she knew the law when she didn’t? Yep.
Was the order to put the window down lawful? Yep.
Was the order to exit the vehicle lawful? Yep.
Was the arrest for resisting arrest valid? Yep.
I also don’t think income should be taxed but I pay my taxes and I bet you do too. Simply put don’t feign ignorance here.
Fighting a cop at the side of the road is NEVER the time to get into that battle. If that lady really thought she was in the right and the cop was acting outside of his authority, the smart thing to do is comply and then seek legal action later. When you fight a cop on the side of the road, you’re losing any moral high ground you may have had. She had none in this case and was totally wrong, but even if you do have the high ground, the place to stand up for that is in court, not inside your car at the side of the road. Right or wrong at the onset, the moment she said “no” to rolling her window down, she became wrong.
Jack your thought process about how you run the show “community” is quite brilliant and effective. Hopefully the teacup listeners can get rid of the “HOA” mentality and actually process the info your putting out. I hope the teacuppers are new listeners that haven’t figured out the mind set, if not hopefully they’ll get it soon. Your work is life changing in the most positive way imaginable. Just a note, I don’t ever, ever, ever kiss anyone’s ass!!!
Thank you for just being you.
Maybe I am nit picking but there were a few legal misstatements re the “Cop Breaks Woman’s Window” segment. 1) While true that a traffic ticket is an arrest, a person is not “paroled” when the cop writes the ticket and sends the violator on his or her way. Rather, the person is released on his or her own recognizance. Parole is an entirely different animal. 2) Cops do have the right to stop a person just walking down the street minding his or her own business and they have the right to temporarily detain and ask limited questions (i.e., name, dob, address, etc.) and even frisk the person. All that is required of the cop is a “reasonable suspicion” (a nebulous concept indeed) that the person is involved in some criminal activity (past, present, or yes, even future) or is dangerous. U.S. Supreme Court: Terry v. Ohio. Finally, in response to cathleeninnh’s statement above: The right to remain silent only becomes operational once a person is arrested. U.S. Supreme Court: Miranda v. Arizona. You do not have the right to remain silent if you are being detained. The nuances get tricky and it is very difficult to fight an illegal detention.
Well that is all absolutely incorrect. First in item one it is effectively a form of parole if you actually look up and understand the word parole and what effectively means vs our modern understanding of parole. “Parole is the provisional release of a prisoner who agrees to certain conditions prior to the completion of the maximum sentence period.” The phase “effectively a form of parole” is a phrase I borrowed from an opinion by a member of the supreme court bar. So um I will take his word over your own.
In item two you are some what correct in the concept of “reasonable suspicion” but that has to be very clear. For instance “I thought he looked like he was up to something” doesn’t carry water at all ever in anyway, period.
They got a call and a white male in blue was seen fleeing the scene, well if they spot a white male in blue who looks like he is suspicious in the area, they can stop, detain, question and investigate.
Or a guy sticks his head in a car in a known drug area, something clearly changes hands. Well that is reasonable suspicion.
But the way you present it is pretty much one hundred percent inaccurate.
Jack, got a link to the other demographic video on YouTube? Here’s the first:
Liked the ending. Refining my definition of success and achieving it is my (and should be everyone’s ) current goal. Thanks for expanding my horizons and making me think.
Many of your opinions resonate with me, some don’t, but almost all make me think. Beats the hell out of talk radio.
Keep doing what you do as you do it. I’ve been listening since November of the first year.
This cop was way more patient than I would have been. He was in the right in this situation. This is coming from someone that thinks that cops regularly abuse their power.