Episode-2667- More on the Failed Policies of CoVid-19 Mitigation — 27 Comments

  1. I am curious how Japan fits into the assertion that this thing is worse in more densely populated areas and older populations. Japan is super old, densely populated (even in “rural” areas), and has a very high number of inter generational households. I don’t disagree with your analysis but I am trying to wrap my head around the low numbers in Japan. I am just not sure what to make of it.

    • My data is that Japan has 1/10 the obesity problems of the United States. They also are habitually more careful about cleanliness, etc. I have a friend who lives there and reports about it all the time.

      • I get that, I lived in Japan for years and have two Japanese children so I am very familiar with the place. I just keep thinking that based on the density, age, and multigenerational household numbers I would expect something higher there than the 7 deaths per million they are currently reporting even accounting for the factors you mentioned. Another thing that is true there is they have a pretty high smoking rate which I would expect to cause problems as well. I am wondering if there might not be a genetic component that we are missing with this thing.

        • I believe nutrition plays a big and I mean a big fucking role in this. I also have a totally wild theory that CoVid may be unmasking a form of AIDS, note I don’t mean it has anything at all to do with HIV, as in zero.

          AIDS is acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Which was what everyone just called it when it came out because they didn’t know what the fuck it was, so they called it what it did.

          Remember my theory is viruses have a role and that role is an evolutionary role. They are not decomposers, they are not predators, they are not consumers. If you believe all things have a purpose, there is only one primary purpose left. The human race has trashed our own immune systems.

          Some mind bending questions to add to this….

          Did we give some portion of the population a form of AIDS in doing it?

          If we did is it curable, ie supplementation or is it done once it happens?

          Does this form of AIDS continue to degrade our bodies over time, just a much longer time line then HIV derived AIDS?

          If CoVid did unmask this, are more things that will do so coming?

          Is the weird illness that tons of people had that seems just like CoVid but tests negative for it, another example that is already here?

          This is all pure conjecture but my pure conjecture in 10th grade about the universe is now well thought of as solid theory in the scientific community. FWIW I got an F on that paper for failure to cite any sources. LOL

    • Japan also takes care of the elderly in their own homes. They dont congregate the very weak, I to one central location. Many deaths in the US are clustered around nursing care facilities and hospitals.

      • Two edged sword.  In Italy the same is true, dad goes to work, comes home sick and grandma.

        I think Japan is more protected by nutrition then lack of elder care.  With a healthy may be added to it. Along with an ever present it depends.

  2. When the lock down began in March of this year, the common wisdom was that the virus  thrived in the cold, dry environment of winter  and that the warmer, moister months of spring and summer would cause it to decline, IIRC. This seems in contradiction to the assertion that the moist environments of subways and meat packing  plants are ideal for the virus’s proliferation.

  3. These are lots of good arguments.

    I use for most of my data on this. He does very good documentation.

    I found the article on the Spain study, but no link to the actual study.

    That the current measures will increase self-harm and suicides is a no-brainer. It will be used to support psychiatry arguments to increase “mental health” screening and treatments.

    What I have found is that there was a history of disagreement in the medical/public health community about how to react on a national level to a pandemic. The measures that were accepted and are being used on us today were never consensus measures.

    The other huge argument I’ve run into concerns nutrition, which you touched on. Obesity or low insulin sensitivity, which are caused by poor nutrition practices (too much refined sugar, etc.), is the biggest predictor for getting sick with this disease and many others.

    The insanity involved in the government choices in this situation is also predictable. The impulse to kill people to “handle everything” is a real impulse, and it is insane but not that uncommon, especially in government and closely related fields.

    I have also seen the experience on the USS Theodore Roosevelt aircraft carrier talked about and written about. 4,800 sailors in close quarters and less than 1/4 of that population infected by test, with just one death. This experience was used by most people to argue that this thing is not as dangerous as some have been saying. One article I read called the one death a “tragedy.” It said it several times! And that’s our “modern” media.

  4. The paper towel condom analogy is funny, but a better analogy might be pants. They’re made from porous materials, but they make you feel a lot better about sitting on a seat others have sat on. And if someone starts peeing, if they have pants on, it doesn’t go very far.

    I mean, you’re right that masks aren’t that effective, and they don’t help much, but it’s worth doing in close proximity to to lots of people. I’m not sure what you’re arguing against. I have only seen people “required” to wear masks when inside and around a lot of people (grocery and hardware stores, those are the only places I’ve gone). Maybe I’m missing some context?

  5. I don’t know how to get a link for the April 29th 2020 Daily Beast here, but it had an article showing vastly undercounted deaths from coronavirus in the state of Georgia.

  6. Most C19 deaths are happening in nursing home populations and these facilities already have a regular mortality rate of 17-20% annually.  On average, over 225,000 die in US nursing home care annually.   So if a patient tests positive then dies, are they being counted as a C19 death?  Wouldn’t 20%+ have died anyway?

    Most nursing homes are in lockdown with no visitors, group activities, outside food and minimal movement outside of the patients room.  This stress alone will likely increase regular mortality rate.  Most infections come in through asymptomatic staff who go home at the end of the day.  Actually, staff level infections are similarly high among those homes tested.

    70% of C19 deaths in Ohio were reported from nursing homes.  This is similar in many other states.

    IMO the Covid death numbers are artificially skewed by including a majority of victims from the extremely high morbidity nursing home cohort.

    I’d like to see the number of US C19 deaths for those under 60 yrs old.



    • A very well reasoned and logical case. I also heard and this is I shit you not a real claim. Some dingbat on Faux News “expert guest” type, when they were shaming Cuomo’s decision on nursing homes (which I am all for) claim that “most people in these facilities would have 7-10 years of life left”. No one calls bullshit on it.

      Median life expectancy for someone in a nursing home, which took me 2.5 seconds to find out….

      “The average age of participants when they moved to a nursing home was about 83. The average length of stay before death was 13.7 months, while the median was five months. Fifty-three percent of nursing home residents in the study died within six months.”

      No journalists in the US are currently doing their jobs, absolutely fuckin zero!

  7. Why is the episode gone from podcasts on the iPhone. Is it just me

    • IDK about to make a car run and will check may be the censored me?

    • As of right now I see it on my Podcasts App (native to iphone).

      Did you listen to it, sometimes depending on settings once you listen they disappear.

  8. Thanks for getting the facts out there.  The level of fear out there is just mind numbing and much more destructive than any virus.

    Just to add to the data set, my parents are around 80 and within the first 10 days of February, both came down with what appeared to be a quick cold.  I was there when it hit my dad and in 1 hour he went from fine, to sneezing, to barely moving, having chills & pains.  I suggested he go to the doctor but he stayed home 2 days and got 100% better on the third.  My mom got a similar sickness but much milder version later that week.   I’ve never  seen anything quite like it.  Both are high risk due to age and health but have been fine since.  Seems like a lot of folks got oddly sick from Nov-Feb.

  9. A better solution needs to be in place for nursing homes.

    My dad has severe dementia along with other issues, the VA thinks his time in Vietnam may be part of the cause. My mom is on hospice, on oxygen, both in their upper 80’s.  As dad needs help most of the time with things such as using the bathroom, forgets how to eat, etc. Once in a while he is mostly normal and can even shave, read and do other things.  My sister retired to take care of them full-time. She was hoping she could continue to care for them in their home at least until the covid thing cleared up.

    One night he could not moved his right side so he was rushed to the emergency room. My sister was able to stay with him only the first 15 minutes as they needed to get him settled.   He called that place jail, even an alarm on his bed which would go off any time he got up.  No one could visit.

    From there he went to a rehab place, he liked the place he was going to, wanted family to visit and eat lunch with him. Liked visiting other patients when his wife was there a year ago, but things changed.

    In a room by himself and no visitors, my mom could do a window visit which involved her pushing her walker down a gravel path, calling him. He had a phone, call button and tv remote. Could not remember how to use any of them.  Annoyed at the noise phone was making. Or another time he was busy doing donuts in his wheelchair, his memory was that of a small child that day.  If he was able to have family with him, we could help him with things, and he would be less stressed, think clearer.

    My mom would knock on the window to get his attention, point to the phone and possibly get him to answer it, otherwise call the nurse to help him answer the phone. Mom was exhausted after this.  Another day she just called and he answered and they watched the same thing on TV and had a good talk with each other.

    There is a VA home with a great memory care unit which friends have loved and that had been considered a possibility for him to go to. He could not stay at the short-term rehab nor were they set up to handle his specific memory issues.  The VA was no longer accepting new patients at all because of covid.

    Dad really wanted to go back to  his home.  His care was too much without hiring additional help. It also tires my mom out physically and emotionally seeing him like this 24/7. While searching for great help at least 8 hrs day 7 days a week and not yet finding a good option,  the VA center called with an opening.

    A tough decision, but we all agreed it would be best to have him at the memory center. Mom wanted to go with him, but if she went she would be in a different area, and not able to see him all. She loves her home, staying there. Feels wrong to her not to be with her husband.

    In the memory center they have found isolation for dementia patients worse than catching covid. (not worse than the risk of catching covid).  They can be around other patients. Phones are at nurses station and they will bring the patient their phone when someone calls.  “window” visits are outside, separated by a fence, Mom can sit on a chair in the shade. They help patients with video calls.  Better than the rehab. Still tough. None of us know if we will ever be able to hug him again.  I like to think yes.

    I am sure these patients would prefer to take their risk with catching covid while being able to hug their family, have in person visits.   I realize that does increase the risk of covid in the nursing home.  Not sure the best answer, nor how soon policies may change.  Fear of lawsuits seems to be winning at the moment.