Episode-882- Listener Feedback for Tax Day 4-17-12 — 43 Comments

  1. On the DNR hog situation I am with you not knowing what to do. I have been racking my brain. I even offered to fly out and form a human fence to protect the hogs. So I sent in some $$$ to help fight this battle. Kyle Baker has some good videos about what’s going on. In one states that if your donation is not used they will send it back to you.

    This one really hits so close to home. I have Black American Guinea Hogs. I see this whole situation government stepping in to dictate what we can and can’t grow, how we grow it, and even how we consume it leaves me dumbfounded. Not to mention that it is perfectly legal to sell drug smoking pipes but a federal crime to raise hogs. I have popped a gasket on all this crap.

    The MI DNR says that any hog that is born with color striping, has pointed upright or floppy ears, hair, a straight or curly tail, is considered feral. The hog only has to have ONE of these characteristics to be considered feral. This is so frigen beyond belief. What pigs don’t have ears or tails? ^**&%^&^(*^^*(&^*&T&^%^%$&^%&^(*^&(*^&

    YES I will help in any way I can.
    This type of crap is truly where stress comes from
    the mind over powering the bodies desire to totally smack the crap out of someone who so desperately needs it.

    And wanting to help or do something but not knowing what or how to help.

    • Sounds like they are going for an Assault Pig Ban (ABP).
      Singling out arbitrary traits in order to ban it by people that don’t have a clue.

      It will probably be lifted after 10 years except in states like NY.

    • I was appauled when I saw this one a few weeks ago. Mark Baker’s site ( has so much great info. They seem to do a pretty good job of posting news about other farmers who’re being attacked by MI DNR.

      I suspect that the best way folks can help is to contribute money to the Bakers’ legal defense fund. The Baker family seems to be spear-heading the fight against the DNR’s craziness.

      I’d also guess that if one can have hogs, farming the heritage breeds is probably a smart way to go (to exercise the rights that we apparently risk losing.)

  2. DNR Story: What to do with this particular case is a good question, but this, like so many things is based on the Bureaucratic nonsense we’ve allowed to grow, and grow and grow.

    If there is a single libertarian goal–it would be to dismantle the bureaucratic system. It has effectively destroyed Representative government.

    We can fight this SYMPTOM, but we can do that all day every day, and not make a dent. Problem is that attacking the disease is even harder.

    Sad state of affairs.

  3. Hey Jack,
    I can sympathize for Mike Adams position on gun content at his website, since many of his target audience has probably been conditioned since birth to react like Pavlov’s dogs when they see/hear anything gun related. Only, instead of salivating, they would experience fear and we all know fearful customers don’t click on ads and buy things.

    • @Christopher F, I can’t! For a guy that talks all the shit he does on of all places the Alex Jones show his stance is one of being a complete coward. The day he changes I will fully endorse his work once again. You are either consistent or you are not.

      • I just listened to Robert Scott Bell Show from yesterday and Mike Adams talks alot about owning a gun and how thankful he is that when he walks into a Whole Foods he knows there are many other CCDW. He may have changed his thoughts on carrying a gun.

        A side note…
        My wife walked in during your rant and I explained what caused it. She started ranting at me too but then she left before your heart felt words.
        I have to replay the last 10 minutes for her.
        I love the show and your passion Jack!

        • @eddie, when it all went down Mike sent me an email about supporting the second and carrying and owning guns but stated, “it is to controversial a subject for my readers”. In other words I censor my own site to protect my bottom line. I am not waiting for Mike to change his view, I am waiting for him to change his policy.

          For him to run his mouth on shows like you mention and Alex Jones, etc. and then not allow a site with “gun content” to advertise is pretty damn cowardly in my view. Like I said the day his policy changes I am fully behind Natural News once again.

        • @eddie here you go strait from the Natural News advertising policy.

          “NaturalNews PROHIBITS ads promoting products that contain: HFCS, yeast extract, MSG, aspartame, sucralose, sodium nitrite, hydrogenated oils, chemical pharmaceuticals, toxic perfumes and fragrance chemicals, etc. No gambling, casino, alcohol, firearms or adult content advertisements will be approved.”

          So firearms gets lumped in with gambling and porn? It is time for Adams to either stand up and be who he is or for his audience who supports the 2nd FOR REAL to tell him to pound sand.


    Love to hear your passion for doing the right thing, Jack! It’s one of the things that first attracted me to TSP.

  5. Jack, Great show!, As to information and giving suggestions on how to fix things,
    well some times, exposing the situation is a good start, fixing it is not your job.
    Suggestions are Always a good thing, but to be fair, if you knew it all, would there even be a Survivalpodcast? That being said, again, getting the information out there is always a good start, I know good and well I do not have all the answers, and listening to the Survival Podcast allows me to hear about things I may or may not be aware of, for that I thank you, However I hope that while you are doing GREAT things, I do NOT expect you to have all the answers if any answers for some things, One of the reasons I live the program, is the fact while you may get a tad passionate about things, you are humble and honest enough to have the expert panel. You also are consistent with the focus and direction of the program. Thank You!

  6. Jack:
    It is interesting that you’ve come into contact with so many people who think they are paying Federal Income tax but in reality do not pay. There is so much that is truly insidious about the what government is doing because of the level of ignorance. It was also very beneficial for you to list some of the other taxes we pay and pay often in plain ignorance.
    The tie-in to how the taxes are used to regulate, control and yes even oppress was excellent. In the case of the feral hog eradication program in Michigan one wonders who gave the incentive to try to enforce the regulation in the first place. You mention that this was not a law passed by the peoples representatives, but it was a regulation with questionable credentials.
    These things are are taking place either because citizens are allowing out of ignorance and complacency or because we have lost control of our republic.

  7. Jack, TSP is seriously changing my life for the better! Thanks for the great content and perspective. On the MI DNR thing… I’m really at a loss about what to do as well, but one thing is certain in my mind, this is a dangerous situation. It’s dangerous for our liberties and it’s a dangerous situation that could turn into a violent one unfortunately. It’s just hard to imagine too many people being willing to take this laying down. We need to find a way to nip this in the bud and defeat it to keep things civil.

  8. DNR pig issue…2 things here: 1. Years ago when my mom was trying to get a job at one of the DNR’s Discovery Centers (nature center), they said that it was *required* that she join the UAW (yes, the UAW) in order to work at the center. Big labor union? Hmmm… 2. Check out the following article. It explains how a few months ago, 4 Michigan pig farmers wanted to make sure their farms weren’t searched so they hired an attorney to make sure this wouldn’t happen to them. Maybe others now are also seeking this exemption or whatever it’s called?? This is unbelievable and infuriating…

  9. We live in Michigan and just bought 5 feeder pigs.
    They fit the DNR sniper list. Presently looking into options.
    One way to help is to voice concerns by contacting people like:

    Governor Rick Snyder

    Rodney Stokes DNR Director
    Gary Hagler Chief Law Enforcement Division

    Department of Agriculture

    Thanks Jack Keep up the excellent information

  10. The DNR is not doing any thing US Fish and Wildlife hasn’t already done years ago. It seems these types of organizations are not required to follow the constitutional requirements for search and seizure that other law enforcement agencies have to follow. A number of years ago, US Fish and Wildlife conducted raids on bird breeders who were raising Thick Billed Parrots and had been doing so for years prior to them being placed on the “migratory bird list”. In their efforts to “protect” these birds, USFW agents assaulted the breeders, held them at gun point, seized the birds, took eggs from the nests and threw them on the ground. On breeder reported agents killing chicks that were in the nest because they were too young to eat on their own. All of this was done without a search or arrest warrants.
    I’m in for anything we can do to help with this. Please keep us up to date on what we can do as a community with this , Jack. Thanks for letting us know about this. Now I’m off to spread the word.

  11. Jack I do not know what to do either. Emails? Phone would they even care that someone from Georgia does not agree with them? calls to state govt?

  12. Jack, I think you sort of came up with the possible first step to the DNR problem. These enforcement officers should be shunned like the Amish do to there own people, to the point where anybody working for the DNR is ashamed to omit they work for this outfit. People need to let the DNR know that they would rather have son or daughter work for the obama re-election commitee than be an enforement officer for the DNR.

  13. When I heard about this about a month ago, I called the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy to get the skinny on this regarding the heritage breeds. As of that point, they told me that no heritage hogs have been killed. Just the two farms of ‘wild hogs’.

    Many if not most of the heritage breeds will have pedigrees or registration on them, the wild hogs likely won’t. Why are these breed association papers not helping these farmers and their hogs? I was interested that Michigan’s Department of Natural Resources website states “By the end of 2011, more than 340 feral swine had been spotted in 72 of Michigan’s 83 counties, and 286 have been reported killed.” So that means that only 54 of the feral ones sighted are still running around loose. Are they currently such a problem there?

    Michigan pre-2007 has MANDATORY NAIS and has federal money supporting mandatory radio frequency identification (RFID) cattle tags and other animal regulations. Efforts are continuing to convince the Governor to step in to stop this program. At least one legislator has also filed a bill request for a bill to stop the NAIS.

    For those of you who are as yet unfamiliar with the NAIS (National Animal Identification System), it is the brainchild of the NIAA (National Institute of Animal Agriculture) which is a group of mogul businessmen such as the chemical company Monsanto, the National Pork Producers and Cargill Meat, who developed a mandatory “National Animal Identification System” (“NAIS”) which they then somehow conned or bribed the USDA to implement. These are all companies who stand to profit from the NAIS on the taxpayers dollar.

    In essence the NAIS means that every person who owns even one horse, cow, pig, chicken, sheep, pigeon or virtually any livestock animal, even as a pet, will be forced to register their home, including owner’s name, address, and telephone number and keyed Global Positioning System coordinates for satellite monitoring, in a giant federal database under a 7-digit “premises ID number. The animals will be required to have a radio transmitting tag on them at all times. In further ‘phases to be implemented’ in the NAIS program, they may also require each animal’s DNA sample as well as retinal print of the animals eye. The NAIS will have the right to trespass on your private property as they feel the whim. Americans will have to foot the expenses for NAIS out of our pocket as well as out of our taxes. The only people to profit from this are the people who put this law into being (like Monsanto), the rest of us, as well as the animals will not.

    The Michigan Pork Producers Association and other large agribusiness interests, as well as conservation groups have worked together with the DNR to push for the ruling to be implemented.

    I think I would boycott all Michigan produced pork products and write or call the Michigan Pork Producers Association and tell them why. Buy Indiana or Ohio Pork instead or go without. Why not have campaigns to be anti-Michigan pork and see if they will listen when it effects their pockets and profit?

  14. As an afterthought to my last post, why not put a bounty on the feral hogs which are really running round wild, not the ones inside farmers and ranchers fences? Bounty for coyotes in most states is $20-50 per pair of coyote ears, why not the same for the feral hogs? In the long run it would cost the state and tapayers less.

    • @Cedar because it isn’t really about feral hogs, that is the excuse for the abuse. It is about putting small producers out of business. A pig doesn’t need a pedigree. The hogs at Bakers Green Acres were simply heritage breeds. FERAL MEANS – something that has returned to the wild. NOTHING CONFINED TO A FARM WITH A FENCE is feral, that is just nonsense and let me add this. The “normal” pigs will go feral just as fast and they do it all the time. We have killed plenty of ferals in Texas that look like modern domestic hogs, because they are.

  15. Oh I know Jack. I am a heritage livestock advocate/raiser and am entirely mouthy about the NAIS and who they are and what they are doing. I am a small producer and very glad we do not have the NAIS in my state.

  16. Jack, this was the best show I’ve heard in a long time!

    The Michigan pig ban greatly disturbs me, but my comment is about the tax issue. Thank you for talking about all the taxes we pay that no one ever thinks about.

    Last year, we did an interesting experiment. We calculated how much of our gross income of $29,000 we paid in taxes. The answer? Roughly 1/3 of our total income. Note that this figure doesn’t include the 6% inflation that you mentioned!

  17. @ Jack,

    As a retired LEO myself, I feel your pain when you say, “I support law enforcement officers, but . . . .” In regards to the DNR issue, I think you should take the same perspective that I do in such matters. Just because an individual puts on a badge, uniform, and a gun, does not make that person a “Law Enforcement Officer.” Any individual who takes the sworn Oath to uphold the Constitution, but does not honor their Oath — is plain and simply a Fraud. It is the Oath that makes a true Law Enforcement Officer, not the badge and the gun.

    Those were not Law Enforcement Officers that raided the pig farm. They were government employees that were given shiny badges and guns and told they had arrest authority, that was sanctioned by other government employees. They were Frauds. They were dishonest and unethical government employees who were fraudulently representing themselves as bonifide Law Enforcement Officers.

    As a sworn oath-taking law enforcement officer, I would never have participated in such an unconstitutional action. I would have disobeyed any unlawful order to participate, and I would have have filed an official grievance and sent it up the chain of command.

    DNR government employees — are not Law Enforcement Officers.

    • Where is local law enforcement during these instances. Couldn’t individuals and local farms possibly work with the local Sheriff or officers to block the DNR. At least it would slow them down. I think this is where the local protection must kick in and say no more to the state and federal thugs!

  18. Jack, I love it when you get angry at injustice during your show. Your uninterrupted stream of consciousness is always so energizing for me. It makes me want to get off my ass and fix something. Its nice to have a new source since my last one, Glenn Beck, got kind of … placid.

  19. DNR fabricating a policy and enforcing it as if it were a law, sounds a lot like a while back when EPA “banned” lead shot (and bullets?)


    I’m confused. You guys are acting as if feral hog problems dont exist. Last I read, and it was awhile ago, feral hogs were quite the problem in Hawaii, for example, even with hunting. Haven’t they had problems in Florida and Georgia too? The article mentions this, but I lived in Florida for some time, and now I live in Michigan, and I can attest to both these states having issues with feral hogs. In Michigan, we’ve had significant issues with non-native invasive species… Zebra Mussels, Asian Carp, etc. And look at Florida and the snake problems they are having…Boa’s, Black Mamba’s, etc that people have let loose in the wild. Isn’t laws limiting non-native species good? Even with a good fence, if these breeds are non-native, there is a chance they could get out and cause total devastation. Michigan might not be devastated now, but isnt it better to nip it in the bud before there is a problem? Additionally, supposedly, they gave the farmers plenty of time to sell the pigs and offered to connect them with out of state buyers….supposedly.

    • @Michael Ward, that is because color or breed isn’t what makes a hog feral, being escaped in the wild is. Don’t believe the DNRs bullshit, seriously.

      • Yea but isnt the issue more about them being non-native species than if they are feral or not? Reason being that if a non-native were to become feral than we would have a problem, and chaos being what it is, eventually this will happen and is happening, at least to a cerain extent? Also, are there no heritage breeds that are allowed? I honestly dont know this subject well enough to know which side to take, but being a Michigan hunter, i think the MDNR do a pretty good job. You commented that the officers should be ashamed of themselves, but considering how many did participate, i assume they felt they were doing the right thing. Could this be a case of a few stuborn ranchers not wanting to be inconvienienced? I dont know what to think.

      • @Michael sorry man and I mean no disrespect but you just don’t have a flippin clue what you are talking about, not even a little bit. Pigs are pigs, there is no such thing as a pig native to the US, any pig even the big pink ones you see at the State fair will go feral and do so effectively and fast given the chance. A “Russian bore” is no more “feral” than a “domestic hog”, most of the current feral hogs in the us are from DOMESTIC HOGS gone feral.

        This isn’t like kudzu or say Zebras or a fricken Tiger or something like that. Yes hogs can and do go feral but the “old world hogs” which include HUNDREDS of heritage breeds such as Mangalitsa Hogs, yep that is the “feral hogs” the DNR is trying to force the guy at Bakers Green Acres to kill off, but he is standing his ground.

        This is what a Mangalista Hog looks like

        There were originally bred in 1833 in Hungaria. The DNR wants them dead because they don’t look like what they consider a “domestic hog” because they simply look different. If you read the reg it is written so anything the DNR says makes them feral does so. Please educate yourself and stop trusting the agency that is the one putting out the reg and enforcing it, OF COURSE they have a good story to tell, that is what government always does.

        • Your right, I dont have a “flippin” clue what Im talking about….thats why i posted and asked the questions i did. I thought i was pretty fair and straight forward in the questions i asked and how i asked them. You did a good job answering the questions, too bad it was in such a holier than thou manner. You certainly didnt gain my favor in this instance Jack, hopefully you were just having a bad day.

      • @Michael I am not trying to win your favor nor am I saying I am holier then you or anyone but in response to that if you don’t like it tough. You were stating things that simply are not true, I gave you the FACTS and I told you that you were coming from a point of no having a clue.

        If you read your comments you will see they read as though you are advocating for the DNR. So I responded as such as for not “winning your favor”, either man up and realize that text is the lowest form of communications known to man and you are asking about an issue that has pissed me off and my anger may come though and NOT be about you or don’t.

        Jeeze but men in this nation need a thicker skin!

        • Thicker skin? You started with “I dont mean any disrespect,,” when, in fact, you knew what you were saying was gonna be taken as such… else you wouldnt have qualified it. I asked a number of simple questions that you never answered, and as far as facts go… where did you point out any? Oh, you read the regs, and showed a photo of a heritage hog that was on the list… I guess those were two facts.

          I asked if there were any Heritage breeds that the ranchers could possess that weren’t on the list… no answer. Do problems with feral pigs exist?… no answer. A comment on the destruction by non-natives?… no answer. A comment on the MDNR’s offer to connect the ranchers with out of state purchasers?…no answer. Your reply to all these was “color or breed isnt what makes a hog feral. Dont believe the DNR’s BS.” Isnt that just a little bit of “poisoning the well”?

          You accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about and to get educated… uhmm… isnt that restating what I said when I mentioned I didnt know the subject well enough to take a side? …and when you say my comments can be read as advocating for the MDNR, exactly when does it read this way? Was it when I said I cant take a side because I dont know enough? Taking the “Devil’s advocate” side isnt advocating the MDNR, its using their defense to offer the chance at exposing their logical falacies. I thought I WAS getting educated by asking “supposidly” educated people their opinion.

          Lastly, you do want to win favor or else you wouldnt have a podcast. All this community talk you love to go on about, yet when a community member asks simple questions you want to bully them. Just because I can see the MDNR’s point, partially at least, doesnt mean I should be attacked as their advocate. And maybe you also need to realize that text is the lowest form of communication when you talk about “an issue that has pissed me off and my anger may come through…”.

          let me guess… Then I shouldnt listen to you then if I dont like what I hear. You might not care… and I guess that would be par for the course, but I have been a supporter of yours since the BEGINNING and have had my questions answered on the Listener Questions various times.. spent money on the members brigade… spread the word… and this is the thanks I get?…..Your not trying to win your favor? Is this how you talk to your neighbors? Seems you only believe in community when the community sides with your point of view. Disappointed Jack… just disappointed. My skin is thick enough, but I’m not gonna let anyone talk down to me without responding. BET.

  21. I was told by a relative of mine who lives in Michigan and used to work for the DNR, that the DNR “officers” have more power than the local police. They have more authority to put someone in jail, to fine someone, etc. I think the Michigan state legislature seriously needs to intervene on this one.