Episode-530- Myth Busting Day on TSP
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I was looking for a new fresh topic and one sort of landed in my lap, a friend trotted out the old, “if you ask a cop if he is a cop, he has to tell the truth” line in a recent conversation and it led me to put this show together. Join me today as we discuss a variety of myths on everything from law enforcement to money and point out where they can get you into trouble or worse. I think that nothing is more powerful than knowledge but nothing is more dangerous that a false belief that you have enough faith in to base your choices on it.
Join me today as we tackle myths like…
- Law enforcement myths
- Asking are you a cop will require a cop to tell you the truth
- Threatening to “call your lawyer” will keep a cop at bay
- Officers must read you your rights when you are arrested
- Not telling police what you know is “obstruction of justice”
- You get one phone call from jail
- Money and Debt Myths
- Inflation always punishes savers
- The government is who creates our money
- There isn’t enough gold to allow a return to the gold standard
- If you are not happy with a mortgage you just “give the house back”
- Gun Myths
- The best way to increase range is increase velocity
- People shot with big guns are “blown backwards”
- Carrying a gun makes you 100% safe
- If a sign says you can’t bring your gun into anywhere you legally can’t
- “Military” guns, “Assault rifles”, are more powerful than “civilian sporting guns”
- A gun is only a “weapon” when used as such
- Survival and TEOTWAWKI Myths
- The best place to “survive” during TEOTWAWKI is in the wilderness
- TEOTWAWKI will be easy for the prepared, hell it might be fun
- As long as you have enough ammo and food you will be okay
- If you have a gun and know how to use it you can just take what you need from others
- The biggest threat we face is _____________.
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There is a great web site that lists businesses that do prohibit carry of firearms by CHL holders in Texas. http://texas3006.com
This is a great web site for when you are going someplace that you have never been before.
Large denomination US currency:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_denominations_of_United_States_currency
* $500: William McKinley
* $1,000: Grover Cleveland
* $5,000: James Madison
* $10,000: Salmon P. Chase
* $100,000: Woodrow Wilson (Not legal for private ownership)
How in the hell did Wilson, arguably the worst, most inept prez since Obama, get to be on the $100G note? It’s his fault we have central banking and the lie of the federal reserve. Over Salmon Chase who dedicated his life to abolish slavery? Meh!
You can make as many phone calls as you want from jail. However you either have too call collect or purchase a calling card through commissary.
What sucks is no calls to cell phones, but that may have changed from the last time I was on inside 5 years ago.
For those of us with wilderness living skills, we can TEOTWAWKI in the wilderness. It’s a good idea to geocache a bunch of food preps and gear near and around the bug out area, and have a second fall back area in the wilderness.
RE: “Threatening to “call your lawyer” will keep a cop at bay”
If you’re serious, there’s a game you can play with the Enforcer, but you must be prepared to go to jail to play well.
In US. vs.Johnson (76 Fed Supp. 538), Federal District Court Judge James Alger Fee ruled that,
“The privilege against self-incrimination is neither accorded to the passive resistant, nor to the person who is ignorant of his rights, nor to one indifferent thereto. It is a fighting clause. It’s benefits can be retained only by sustained combat. It cannot be claimed by attorney or solicitor. It is valid only when insisted upon by a belligerent claimant in person.” McAlister vs. Henkel, 201 U.S. 90, 26 S.Ct. 385, 50 L. Ed. 671; Commonwealth vs. Shaw, 4 Cush. 594, 50 Am.Dec. 813; Orum vs. State, 38 Ohio App. 171, 175 N.E. 876. The one who is persuaded by honeyed words or moral suasion to testify or produce documents rather than make a last ditch stand, simply loses the protection. . . . He must refuse to answer or produce, and test the matter in contempt proceedings, or by habeas corpus.”
The game is this:
you “Am I free to go?”
cop “no”
you “are you going to ask me any more questions?”
cop “yes”
you “OK, pursuant to Miranda ( http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=384&invol=436 ) I want counsel present during this “custodial interrogation”. Will you let me call my counsel now?”
This puts the cop in a bind if you aren’t really doing anything wrong (maybe it’s a traffic stop and cop is on a fishing expedition). Now s/he has to decide if it’s worth the trouble s/he will get into if they take you downtown and book you in because your counsel is 2,000 miles away and won’t get here for 3 days (you mentioned that, right?).
Hey, if you are not having fun tormenting your persecutors, you are not doing it correctly.
SCOTUS has ruled that the cop may continue asking questions and it is up to you to exercise your right to remain silent, should you wish to do so. Just keep repeating the single word “counsel”.
And always remember the 3 rules of dealing with Enforcers (cops, IRS, building inspectors, all those Executive Branch police powers folks:
1. Be Quiet.
2. Don’t say anything.
3. SHUT UP!
In the above-mentioned Miranda case, SCOTUS observed that (in 1967) 90% of all criminal convictions are a direct result of admissions and confessions. The High Court also observed that cops are “trained professional liars”. So close your mouth and the ball is in their court with 9-1 odds now in your favor. Uh, you didn’t leave a paper trail, did you?….
Is it possible to keep an overly aggro cop at bay by threatening to sue them personally for civil rights violation if they are violating your rights? We’ve had a series of cases in my city where victims have won settlements from the police dept. for excessive force. The victims sue the tax payer funded police department. The cops in question don’t seem to have any skin in the game.
If my rights are violated I figure I’ll tell the cop I will sue him/her personally. Good idea? Bad idea? Is that even possible?
The tyrannical NWO government knows where you live. America is a control grid. I prefer the vast remote forests to be a ghost and squat and pirate garden. A bow would bring home the bacon, and wilderness survival skills go a long ways out in the boonies. Most working poor, unemployed masses cannot afford land. Oh, correct me. I tried and had the money for 5 acres in southern Oregon surrounded by National Forest, and the BIG GOV told me I could not camp on the land. I had too get a building permit, septic, well and could not even camp on it while building – communist BS!
Political Atheist, I think you answered your own question 😉
(that was re 100K bills)
Thanks for the clarification, Mash! I was a little confused at first (doesn’t take much).
Yeah, I guess handing over the keys to the money printing machine to globalist turds will get you a few perks. Maybe we should print up a jillion dollar bills and put Barry’s smug, elitist face on it. Grr….
Jack,I really enjoy your podcasts. I must say..towards the end of this podcast….you were on fire! I felt the spirit of truth burn inside me. I believe your message about us being our biggest threat to our liberty…was inspired. Great Work!!
Jack, please explain how thos “No Guns Allowed” signs placed on the doors of businesses protects anyone? Criminals dont follow rules. What is the point? I feel less protected if I honor that sign and leave my sidearm in the car.
Another great show from Jack.
re: the law enforcement..
I have already posted this in the forumns along with an other video relating to the uk that may or may not be worth watching for the wider audience,
but think US audience specifically might want to take the time out to watch
http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html
RE: “Threatening to “call your lawyer” will keep a cop at bay.”
This may or may not work with some police officers. Most police officers will not be compelled to back off if you threaten them with an attorney. Of course, there are plenty of officers who make mistakes, and people’s civil rights get violated. And there are some bad cops out there. But most of them are just trying to make a living, and most of them follow the rules.
Police officers are generally protected from individual lawsuits if they did not break the law or break their department’s policies during their encounter with you. Most people wish to sue the department, because police officers don’t make a ton of money, and a lawsuit against a cop isn’t going to make one rich.
You are entitled to your Miranda Rights during police custodial interrogation. This means you must be in custody (arrested or otherwise), and the line of questioning must be likely to elicit a criminal response. Regular traffic stops do not constitute being in custody, unless you’ve been placed into the back seat of a patrol car or in handcuffs (hence, under arrest). If you’ve been drinking, and the officer just pulled you over, and he/she asks you how much you’ve had to drink, Miranda Rights are not applicable at that point. You can speak to an attorney any time you want to, whether you’re in custody or not. And, you do not have to answer incriminating questions ever…it’s just that the police don’t have to advise you of Miranda Rights under most circumstances. However, the police are not required to assist you in speaking with an attorney until after you’ve been formally charged during an arraignment.
Police officers are citizens too, and they are human. They make mistakes, just like anyone else. Some officers are bad apples, and shouldn’t be cops. This is no different from any other profession, with the exception that most other professions don’t deal with individual civil liberties.
“Anxiety and stress are the children of apathy and ignorance”
This is profound truth! Can we quote you on this?
@Todd
Did you listen to the show? Really listen? The signs that say “the UNLICENSED possession of a weapon” DO NOT apply to you if you are a licensed concealed carry holder.
So how do they protect you? They give you the right IN TEXT to bring your gun into a private business. You might say you already have that right at least the legal right if not posted other wise but as a licensed carrier it is a virtual welcome sign to come in and be armed.
Further the gun hating sheep can eat their donuts, pick up their dry cleaning or shop for a vacuum and think they are in a gun free zone. That shop keeper is likely to never hear from gun haters because they are to dim to understand the sign.
The sign doesn’t protect from a criminal it protects your legal right to carry on that premise. Now if you don’t have a carry permit you are breaking the law by carrying anyway.
@Political Atheist about threatening to sue, not likely.
@Cryptozoic on threatening to call an attorney. Beautiful post but that is not at all threatening anything. It is in effect asking to leave, when told no asking for an attorney. Two very different things. Oh and you probably are getting taken into custody at that point if they really believe you are involved.
I am trying to get a cop or prior service cop to come on and talk about this stuff. Problem is most think I want to help the guilty get away, what I want is to protect the wrongly accused innocent.
My son who is strait as an arrow had a run in with the law because someone saw him drop off his friend next to a house that was broken into. What the observer claimed to see what him drive by, drive back by and the “second person had ducked down”, no one ducked down he dropped his friend at the end of the street.
The observer jumped in their car and followed our boy to our house. A few hours later the cops show up. They wanted to search his room we politely told them no, explained our son’s history of no trouble ever (I mean even in school for anything, the kid is almost spooky good) He was also a minor at the time.
We told them he was at work and when he would be home. We stated we would fully cooperate but wanted to be with him when he spoke to them. They agreed and IMMEDIATELY screwed us over, not one, not two, not three but four cops go to jack with a 16 year old kid at his job.
They pull him into the parking lot and question him for about 30 minutes and finally give up. Main reason was one cop was very good friends with the boy’s manager and asked him if he thought Matt was the type of kid to do this and the manager told him they were up the wrong tree.
When we found out we were furious. I phoned the chief’s office and told him that I was a staunch supporter of law enforcement and always had been but I was also now unwilling to ever trust any of his officers ever again.
I support cops, they do a tough ass job, but I don’t trust them because they are trained to lie. One who trusts a trained liar not to lie is foolish.
@Greg Hershner
Quote away brother.
@Modern Survival
Stories like yours are why I no longer trust the police. I actually went to college to become a police officer (I have a Bachelor’s in Criminal Justice). But, what I learned in college and later made me decide that I want nothing to do with law enforcement.
I have a friends who is an attorney. Her advice to me is to tell police I will talk with them after I have consulted with my attorney.
Re: Miranda
It is important to note that the police are only required to give you your Miranda Warnings if you are in custody and being questioned about a CRIME. YOU CAN GOTO TO JAIL FOR A CRIME. A municipal ordinance violation is not a CRIME. So, you can be arrested for disorderly conduct/simple battery/minor theft etc… taken to the station and if you are just going to get a citation, they do not have to read you your Miranda Warnings.
Second thing to note: You and YOU ALONE must invoke your rights. Your mommy, your wife or your lawyer cannot invoke your rights for you. The “you can’t talk to my son”, or “I want to be there when you question my fifteen year old”—doesn’t mean squat.
Next, Police have something called “qualified immunity” (google it). When people sue the police they usually sue the city and list the police department/chief/officer etc… Unless the officer does something blatantly illegal you cannot sue them personally.
Last, keep in mind that virtually every squad car has an audio/video recording device and that most officers have recording devices on their person. Most police interview rooms are also recorded, as are ALL police department phones and Jail phones.
@vin9229
Actually a member of the Cheif’s staff acknowledged that his officers were wrong in questioning a minor in absence of his parents in this situation. It was actually a violation of policy. So by their own admission they were wrong, they are also lucky I am not an asshole because it would have been easy to sue them over this.
The rules with minors are quite different and in Texas especially those under 17. Doesn’t mean cops won’t break their own rules but again by their own admission it was wrong.
I also really think you should listen to the link TomGood posted
http://boingboing.net/2008/07/28/law-prof-and-cop-agr.html
@TomGood: Just watched the video. Very interesting, thanks for posting. The law prof was pretty annoying after the first 10 minutes or so. But the police officer’s insight was worth it. +1
Good show a friend of mine was thrown in jail he demanded a phone call well it didnt work the cop looked at him and said shut your darn mouth and thats the polite version.The thing about the gun blowing you backwards think of this if a gun had that much power what would it do to the person shooting it i would think a min of a broken hand.
Jack,
The passion at the end of this episode and the phrase that you spoke “anxiety and stress are the children of apathy and ignorance” are re-invigorating. Reminds me also why I list to the show.
To the Miranda rights in the US, the Supreme Court in Canada just brought out a ruling that along similar mythbusting lines should awaken in Canadians the idea to “shut up” when being questioned. In Canada, you are permitted to speak with your lawyer before interviewing by the police; but you don’t have the right to have a lawyer in the interview with you. Too many Canadians (myself included) are under the myth/misinformation that we had such a right. Might be the influence of TV or just lack of experience for many (and in my case both (don’t want to see the wrong side of the police station, if you get my meaning)).
re: the gun blowing you backward, I have seen lots of bodies blown backwards…by .50 and larger ;).
Your TEOTWAKI myths motivated me to come up with some questions to ask those who indulge in post-Apocolyptic fantasy.
1. What part of your preps allows you to be prepared, should you survive, to deal with 20+ room temperature bodies?
2. What part of your preps allows you to be prepared to deal with the horribly maimed and wounded who did not conveniently die?
3. What part of your preps allows you to deal with close family who show up during a quarantine, showing signs of sickness? (If you just plan to shoo them away, you havent thought it through).
4. How are you prepared to provide 24 hour security of your location? Working parties?
5. How many people in your home have stood watch, after a long hard day, from 0300-0600? In the cold? In the wet?
A lot of us, myself included, need a reality check once in a while. Great show!
Great show Jack.
My two cents worth on dealing with law enforcement.
Most cops are just doing their job and trying to make it home safe at the end of their day.
A good attitude and not raising your voice goes a long way. Keep your hands visible and don’t show any agitated body language. Cooperate now, and later if you feel you were mistreated you can make a complaint to the officer in charge.
Be careful with throwing names out. If your going to do this, use a name of a person of the same rank. If you tell a patrolman you know Lt. or Sgt. so and so, they may see this as your going to go over their head or trying to prove how important you are. I know many cops who wish they had a dime for every person that told them they know the Chief or some other high ranking officer personally. Also, the cop your dealing with may not like whoever you mentioned and decide to take it out on you.
If you the shoe fits expect that’s how you will be treated. If you are a young person driving around with the music blasting in your shitbox vehicle in a high crime area…..expect you will be paid more attention to by the cops.
Don’t ever mention about you being a taxpayer….they pay taxes too. (This comment is sure to piss off the softest cop)
Remember not every experience with the police has to be a bad one. A lot of cops rely on the information from the public to help them solve cases.
I am pro-LEO, but thought you guys might find this of interest if you have not seen it:
Don’t Talk To Police
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Re Post 18 @Modern Survival:
First, as you know, if one can pass the attitude check, 90% of your problems go away. Once one is away from California and out here in the Real America, I’ve found that most cops are actually real people, who are more interested in solving/preventing problems than were the bullies I’m accustomed to, who’ve seen too many movies.
Yes, this technique (my post above) is effectively asking to leave. That’s what we want, right? It motivates the cop to let you leave by advertising that you are not easy prey, that you are a person who knows your rights and the law and are prepared to exercise that 5th amendment intelligently and the twinkle in your eye lets him/her know that you are a person who when threatened with jail asks which way it is, puts your hands behind your back and says “Follow Me”. (They use fear as a tactic. Remove it.) Cops are not very knowledgeable about the law. They don’t do law, they do Force. If you remove the option of force and drag them into law, they are out of their element. Frankly, people who are too intelligent are not hired as cops, they don’t do well in that job. To be a proficient cop one must be sensitive to disorder; be able to sense anything out of the ordinary. This requires a narrow mind. Cops enforce the status quo. You can use this toward social engineering invisibility (which is another letter).
Cops (both good and bad) have to think like predators, they go after the easy prey; the young, the poor, the ignorant. Once they learn you are not easy prey, they may decide to hunt elsewhere. And let you go.
[I have some experience, on both sides. My teenage plan was to go into police work, back in the day when LAPD was the best. Not being old enough, to mark time I became an Air Force cop, making Las Vegas NV safe for Democracy ’75-’79. There I got to observe how the Las Vegas PD (NorthLVPD, Highway Patrol, etc) acted behind the scenes. It was a rude awakening to this Valley Boy who had been a kid in the 60s. I had ideas about good and evil and making the world a better place. That’s not what these guys were about. Some movies have observed that police are a cult. That is exactly correct. The “Thin Blue Line” syndrome. By the tender age of 23 I realized I could not pursue my plans because I couldn’t join that cult; attempting to do so would have destroyed my conscience. Philosophers don’t make good cops. Cops represent the Power of The State, are an insular group, and don’t care much about right or wrong these days, they just have to follow the rules set by their employer.
I spent the 80s-90s as an independent contractor fixing apartments in most of the worst parts of Los Angeles County. Changed the locks at evictions. Like in Long Beach, home of Snoop Dog. Been below 17th St there after dark? Pretty trippy for a white guy. Pico/Union/Hoover. Pacoima. Maywood. West Hollywood was fascinating! Did you know Canoga Park (now seriously Mexican gangland) has been the porn-producing capital of the world for a long time? I’ve fixed the sinks of the good and the bad in the lower intestine of what used to be America. I’ve been in a lot of dark alleys (with & without my .32 but don’t tell anyone; CA hates guns… ;-). Needless to say, I had additional opportunities to observe and interact with various Southern California police Departments. I felt I could trust the old cops but the young ones were dangerous. They’re hiring the wrong kind of people…]
Where’s Jack Webb when we need him?!
But I digress.
Nothing wrong with cops, we hire them because we need them. They can not be trusted. They signed up to be tools. They owe allegiance to their employer, which is not you or I but either government or a municipal corporation. One would think that enforcers of The Law would love the law and know something about it, but that is not the case.
LAWSUITS: Title 42 Section 1983, which is a Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit, means you can sue the cop (IRS, building inspector, etc; Executive Branch Enforcers) personally (together with whoever they work for) if your claim is that they violated your civil (Constitutional) Rights. Whoever the perpetrator works for may foot his/her bill but the individual can be sued and you can drag his sorry butt into court personally if s/he did you wrong. Even “under color of law”, if they did err, you can sue them and get damages.
As a practical matter, anything less than a week in jail doesn’t really warrant suing anyone. Consider it part of the cost of doing business here in the best Police State in which to live of the 171 Police States on this planet.
Our problem these days is that most cops don’t really understand anything about the law, let alone the Federal Constitution and think Rights are a Commie plot to get criminals off. One might as well be dealing with witch doctors; all they know is what they’ve been told by their schoolyard friends, they are not scholars, and in many cases they are nothing better than bullies.
Sorry, recovering from living in a Police State. Out here in the Real America it’s much better and I enjoy giving that police badge the respect it deserves. But I know better than to trust them.
In our next exciting episode: How I spent a year pioneering how to beat parking tickets in the courtroom. =More fun than a man should be allowed to have.
Cryptozoic:
You mentioned “social engineering invisibility”. Do tell. I am curious.
What is a “credit crunch”? If banks create money, what was the talk about a credit freeze, credit crunch? And how does the Fed “pump money” into the system as spoken of in this article: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5505a7f0-d7c2-11df-b478-00144feabdc0.html
I like the myth-buster theme, do it again.
@Jarrod
re “social engineering invisibility”
People see what they expect to see. [all the below is commentary on that key point]
Give them the social clues necessary to assign you to a category and you’re pigeonholed, they’re satisfied that they have identified you, their attention moves away from you. Meaning, the brain thinks in symbolic terms. Present yourself as fitting within a symbol already in that brain’s inventory of symbols and they cease to inquire further, thinking they know what you are.
a google search of social engineering these days renders internet hacking stuff but back in the day the term had to do with spy craft; identity, making people believe what you want them to believe about who you are.
What image do you want to present?
There’s a great book
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blink_(book)
which states that your first impression is usually correct. People spend less than a second evaluating you. Use that blink of time to present the image you desire them to have, and that’s who they assume you are.
In movie “Men In Black”, Tommy Lee Jones said “individuals are smart, people are stupid”. Turn that around and use it to your advantage: individuals assume you are “people” and therefore stupid, having no choice but to reveal what category you should be assigned to by the evaluator. But what if you aren’t stupid? What if you have deliberately given them the few scanty clues they need to assign you to a pigeonhole, the one you want them to put you in?
EXAMPLE: At age 53 I have been blessed with a silvery beard. It is now so very easy (even though I’m 6-02 and trim)to drive my minivan around, (why did I pick an old minivan?) go to the store, people assume I’m one of the great unwashed masses of boomers, just another of the millions of middle-aged men wearing inappropriate socks, harmless and mostly clueless. There’s no way for them to detect my awareness or philosophical bent, and no reason for them to suspect my capabilities or intent. In other words, I am assigned to category/brain symbol niche of “ignore”: no threat here.
But: The Revolution is me. I may or not be armed, trained, experienced. I might be a person willing to take action. I might know how to disrupt evil or good, help or harm, be an agent of C.O.N.T.R.O.L or C.H.A.O.S Nobody can see anything but that I’m an old fart who can barely dress himself. This image works for me. I call it urban camouflage. Like driving a cruddy old car, nobody considers what valuables it may contain.
Of course, this ‘image’ pretty much prevents finding that Warrior Princess Wife I hope magically appears one day. But The Force is with me. She will pierce the veils. And know how to put up food 😉
A little late to the party here, but as far as police questioning minors goes, each state is different. I’m in Washington and was furious when I found out the police went to the school and “interviewed” my kids. They were between 5 and 8 at the time. Come to find out, we didn’t need to be there… I was quoted a RCW, which I can’t for the life of me find now, and it says right there in Washington state law, that police, DSHS etc can talk to kids whenever they want, basically… I’m still trying to find it. Will check back in if I can
Another myth that we all know better but the majority of Americans don’t seems to be “there’s a national handgun registration law.” My son – an Az resident – lost his perfectly legal handgun in CA for this reason. The cops refused to return it because “it wasn’t registered.” He explained Az doesn’t require handguns be registered, and their “gun expert” told him all handguns nationwide had to be registered by law. I called the department because I couldn’t believe the “expert” was really that ignorant. He told me the same thing. He wasn’t talking about CA – he honestly believed it was a national law.
@Modern Survival
Love you man, seriously. You are a Treasure. In my above posts I failed to narrow the focus of my comments to my actual point about “custodial interrogations”. In the 80s I went through a Constitutionalist Wacko phase and learned to go find out what the US Supreme Court has had to say on my pet issues, because they are the final word. This was pre-internet, I fed lots of quarters into the Xerox machine at the law library. [lesson: paper is not a good storage medium; too many moves means too much weight and libraries are now obsolete since it’s all online]
We have the 5th amendment ‘privilege’ to counsel at every step of the legal proceeding, including out there on the street at the scene of the crime, or more importantly to my thinking when I wrote the above, the “pretended crime” as Our Founders bitched about in the Declaration of Independence.
2 key points here:
1. (and I hardly ever disagree with you Jack, you’re The Man!, but here I must, having been in the trenches) The Right to the assistance of counsel does not begin at arrest, booking or whenever. It exists at all times and more specifically, SCOTUS says at every step, meaning out there before the cop even decides he’s going to take you away.
I advocate using that Right (or threat of it) to tactical advantage in the event that the cop {or other enforcer} is on a fishing expedition, searching for pretended crimes. Like at the truck scales. Like an IRS audit. Like when you’ve got a tail light out and the cop wants to look in your trunk. Like any time someone asks “do you mind if I search….” Maybe you don’t mind. Maybe there’s a missing 12 year old girl in the neighborhood and you not only DO want the cops to search your house, you want to join in their search. But maybe the NAZIs are searching for food in your basement, or for Jews, and you would prefer they didn’t. (well yea, if they’re NAZIs, they don’t ask…)(I’m kind of counting on the incompetence of government to prevent any real Tyranny from happening here.)
4th and 5th amendments work together.
Point 1 is to know when you are in a “custodial interrogation” situation. Ask “am I free to go?”. If the answer is no, you’re in. Miranda comes into play. No they don’t have to read you our rights, we are expected to know our rights. How else can we claim and exercise them? We would rely on the adversary, the agents of Tyranny to help us understand our rights? Absurd of course.
SCOTUS says you have to already know your rights, claim and exercise them at every stage of the legal proceeding(s) and that begins at street level when the Enforcer is deciding whether this is the beginning point of a criminal investigation.
Yes I see your point about if you are involved in actual crime, or they think you are, they’re going to take you away and the sort of maneuvering I speak of is moot. But most of us don’t commit real common law crimes, most of us get dredged up in some “pretended crime” thing designed to take our money or various overzealous government power grabs.
2. Use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy which means use the system to collapse the system. The system is designed in a cattle-chute-justice sort of way, depending on people being ignorant sheep. Anyone who actually knows their rights can foul up the system pretty well by just using it properly. For example; Protesters get arrested by the hundreds. In actual practice they pay bail, cop a plea, pay the fine. That city/County would love to have two of those a week, it’s huge profits to The Man. But what if every one of those 100 arrested did not post bail, stayed in jail, deluged the Prosecutor with legal paper, demanded a Jury of 12 and went to trial, all the while creating “major Federal questions” to get their appeals all the way to the US Supreme Court? [see #3 below. hey, it’s me, you knew there would be a #3]
Well, the system would break down. No city can afford to house 100 demonstrators, take them all the way through Jury trials, deal with the appeals, etc.
#3. The Counsel Game. A sure winner on appeal, even if you did the crime.
The US Supreme Court has answered this 5th amendment question so many times they have resorted to saying “it is well settled that….” you can have anyone you want as ‘counsel’ (the kind the 5th amendment was talking about) to assist you in defending yourself in a criminal case. SCOTUS has used the term “next friend” in this context and cited many historical examples of non-lawyers helping The Defendant defend himself in criminal cases.
But the Judge and the Prosecutor belong to the same trade union, called the Bar Association, and they don’t like scabs. So you can easily use this on unsuspecting Judges when you want an appealable issue as a hole card. Not to mention that for those of us who enjoy the theatrical drama of the courtroom scene (down there at the shallow end of the pool in the traffic court 😉 the entertainment value is tremendous.
Judge “who’s that standing there with you at the Defense table?”
you “Your Honor, this is Joe. He’s going to help me defend myself against these frivolous charges”
Judge “is he a Lawyer?’
you “no Your Honor, he’s my Friend”
Judge “well if he’s not a Lawyer, he’ll have to sit in the back”
here’s where it gets interesting…
you “Your Honor I object. SCOTUS has ruled that the persons upon whom I rely for aid in a criminal defense do not have to be lawyers. These are my trusted friends, my ‘counsel’ under the 5th amendment. Here, Your Honor, I am passing to you through the bailiff documentation containing 20 major cases in which the US Supreme Court has ruled that my counsel does not have to be a lawyer.”
[{So you’ve set the record and created a ‘Major Federal Question’ which entitles you to play in the Potomac River. Guess how much this drives up local government costs {Judicial Branch}? You just got their attention, once you file the appeal, but they don’t know that yet there in the courtroom, so it’s still Kangaroo Court and you can rack up points to use later in the Big Leagues at the appeal levels. Yea Baby! You wanna play to win?!}]
You have just been denied Counsel. In Miranda (1967)
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=384&invol=436
The Court said basically, any time we find the defendant has been denied counsel, we’re throwing the case out. They did this because nobody listened to SCOTUS in Escobedo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escobedo_v._Illinois
which was just a little before Jack Webb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdyvqFN6bCU. God bless his soul, he got it right, way before it all want wrong in Los Angeles. (sigh) I deal with the fallout.
So I see your point; if you did the crime, or even if you didn’t but they think you did, you’re going to jail; hey, deal with it. At some point you will have the opportunity to either call a lawyer, your “next friend” or The Court will appoint counsel. I get it. You are correct.
But I’ve been a little deeper into the belly of The Beast than most Americans, partly due to Constitutionalist thinking and partly due to having worked (and lived sometimes and manage apartments sometimes) in the ghetto(s) of LA during 80s-90s.
What will save America is the fact that most of the people living below the poverty level are damned Fine people of excellent character who
Bottom line: first, pass the attitude test with the cops. if you can’t do that, you probably need to cool off in jail for a while. If you can keep your head, remain silent, set up some appealable issues right there at the scene of the crime, you’ll be in for an Excellent Adventure and will be fine.
But then I’m a guy who spent a year in the 80s perfecting a way to beat parking tickets in the courtroom, so what do I know……
@Cryptozoic
After all of that I think pet issue may be at play for you. I NEVER said you did not have the right to council at any time ever, not one time.
I said officers were not REQUIRED to advise of that right unless you were
1. Being detained
2. Being questioned
Of course you always have that right, the myth we discussed was about being “read your rights” not what rights you have.
Jack, I’m a prosecutor by profession. Your law enforcement “myths” were dead on. Brilliant job.
@Modern Survival
Acknowledged. You are correct, cops don’t have to read the detained their rights. We are expected to know them. I was attempting to teach how much fun one can have tormenting our governmental captors by knowing about our Rights, claiming and exercising them. Most Americans don’t know much about this and have little experience. Yes, I probably have delayed stress syndrome from having spent most of my adult life living in California 😉 But I’m much better now 😉
Thanks Jack for all you do. You are making a difference in the world.
Just caught the show today, and wanted to say great job! Some of it I knew, but much was new and useful.
One myth you didn’t mention is one I hear all the time when people find out we paid off our house early, that you need a mortgage for the interest deduction.
I hear it so much I ask what their tax rate is, let’s say 15%. Then I break it down for them that they’re paying a dollar to a banker to get 15 cents from the government, and if that’s such a great deal, I’ll give them 15 cents for a dollar all day long!
Keep up the good work!
@SloJoe,
Perhaps on the next myth busting day I will include tax myths, lots of them in that same vein.
The honest reality is you do have to be simple minded to believe you come out ahead with a mortgage deduction. I mean for god sakes you don’t pay taxes on the interest paid like you said, it isn’t a dollar for dollar reduction.
Hell that is like asking your employer to cut your salary by say 3 dollars an hour and claiming you won! Yes your tax bill is lower but you end up with less as well.
RE: $500.00 bill
I found two different coin dealers selling them for about $849 at a gun show last week.
@Modern Survival,
You mentioned that you’ve been trying to get a law enforcement officer or former officer on the show to talk about these issues. I’d be happy to help. I’m a current law enforcement officer. I sent you an email regarding this possibility. Love to hear back from you if you’re interested.
Re: “I am not a cop” myth- I always heard “they do not have to tell you but they cannot say NO when they are..” . But I figured that was probably a myth- but I was once watching the show ‘COPS’ [educational tv…!] and a prostitute asked if this undercover was a cop, and the cop kept responding ‘do i look like a cop?” like 3 or 4 times. the person finally gave up, saying ‘i just heard an undercover cop could not say they were not if I asked’ and the undercover agreed with them… After being arrested- the officer said something like ‘didn’t you realize i was refusing to say I wasn’t a cop – you should have realized I was a cop!!’ So i suppose even that officer believed the myth! Also, i know having to hear your rights is a myth- I was not read my rights – twice! and both times I never given a free call.. [just access to a pay phone]
Thanks! great show