Episode-292- Listener Questions 10-07-09 — 14 Comments

  1. Jack good show.Another way that they could take guns if they banned FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS.therefore if they shut everybody up then we could not say a thing about the second amendment.Lets say if the SEDICTION ACT of 1919 was put back in to where people could be put in jail for protesting the gov even in a friendly way if they think its a threat then they will react.Ive heard a rumor that OBAMA wants to do this to stop the SECOND AMENDMENT march April 19 2010 in DC.Also i seen on NRA NEWS that MAIG sent a letter to the ATF that had 40 points of interest that they want the president to address.All of course are gun ban points.

  2. Correction: Massachusetts indefinitely retains sales records for all firearms reported (a legal requirement) by private sellers and dealers.

  3. Just as a clarification of one bit of info. I was a licensed firearms dealer for 15 years. If you buy a firearm from a licensed firearms dealer, You fill out a form 4473. These 4473’s are KEPT for the life of the business selling you the firearm(s). They are NOT destroyed. This is a federal law. When you buy a firearm and fill out the 4473 (the yellow form), it must be kept as long as that dealer is in business. When that dealer goes out of business, they must turn over all copies of all 4473’s they have on hand. These go to a facility in Kentucky and are microfiched for future reference (this was a couple years ago, I’m sure they have a more automated method, now). Therefore, there IS a record of your sale on file with the dealer and, eventually if the dealer goes out of business, with the BATFE. But as long as that dealer remains in business, it’s his/her private information available to the BATFE at their request and he must keep it on hand. Additionally, there are things called “Blue Books” in which are kept a record of ALL transactions and transfers of ownership. This is generally either a spiral-bound book or a computer program that tells when each firearm came into the FFL’s possession and when it leaves their possession. This includes detailed information on the disposition of the firearm. These are ALSO kept for the life of the business and are subject to BATFE review, on demand. There ARE records of sale. However, the BATFE must actively go to that dealer and retrieve the information. When you do background checks for purchase, usually THAT information is destroyed within 48 hours, depending upon your state’s requirements. But the Bluebooks and the 4473’s are kept pretty much forever.

  4. There’s a few guys who shoot trap and skeet at the local range that swear that a heat shield gives “less haze off the barrel” when they’re shooting.

    My thought on that? If a little haze off the barrel is going to make you miss your shot, maybe you need to spend that money on a box of clays and practice more instead. 😉

  5. @Professor,

    Thank you for covering my six on that, I will make the correction on air tomorrow. Just to be clear what is destroyed is the record of the background check not the form.

    Hence there is no big data base of guns and their owners right now but the information to create it does? At least to a degree.

  6. Jack…. Get your out of state Florida CCW permit, and you’ll have recriprocity in AR, and TX for thr 6th month wait when you make your move to AR.

  7. Jack,
    The woman who\’s parents were killed is Suzanna Hupp. She still speaks for gun rights/concealed carry.
    She spoke at our (IL) IGOLD (Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day in Springfield and in Chicago.

  8. Jack,

    Exactly. What a lot of people think is registration is simply the transfer of the sale from the FFL to the purchaser via the 4473. BUT, that paperwork doesn\’t leave the dealer\’s shop unless he goes out of business. He must always keep that on hand and it IS available for ATF review. If they walked in and demanded all the paperwork, they\’d still have to do all the work of tracking down the desired info. It\’s a pain, but. . .If you buy a gun, don\’t buy it from a massive dealer. Chances are, they\’ll have everything on computer which makes it easier for the ATF to grab and check the info. Regular dealers just keep the papers. When a gun comes into a shop from a manufacturer (or from someone off the street), it is supposed to go immediately into the Blue Book. This records the date, model, serial number and information on how it got into their premises (i.e., who sold it to the dealer). When the firearm sells, the dealer fills out the rest of the boxes for that firearm and is supposed to write out where it goes. Generally, an FFL will number his 4473\’s and will write down the buyer\’s name and 4473 number for later reference (perhaps the gun will be found in a crime and the police will contact the manufacturer who will tell them who the distributor was who will tell them the dealer the gun sold to, etc.). So, unless the state(e.g., Illinois and, I believe, California) requires the registration of the sale from the FFL, there is no general database available to law enforcement on what the disposition of a firearm is. Even in most states\’ background checks they don\’t ask for any information other than if the firearm is a longarm or handgun (mainly due to the age requirements). But remember, there are states that do require a registration. Illinois, for example, even requires the gun dealer to report and register sales of ALL Ammo. (sorry so late in answering, I didn\’t check the follow-up email box). Email me directly if you have a question and, if nothing else, I can provide you with an exhaustive answer via phone.

  9. About occupied gun racks in trucks, When growing up in a smaller town in Montana (10,000 or so)my dad kept rifles in the gun rack the entire hunting season just in case we seen game on our way to someplace.

  10. @MontanaBound:

    Now that’s what I call picking up dinner on the way home from the office!

  11. Jack, just a little bit more on the feedback regarding 4473 forms. Remember in Red Dawn? After they secured the town, the Cuban commander told one of his lackies to go to the gun store and get the 4473s so they could sieze all the guns in town.

    Great show, keep up the good work!

  12. Jack,

    I’m a Texas CHL instructor, and your situation with having to be an AR resident for six months prior to applying for an AR license raises an interesting question. Texas will issue non-resident licenses, if you come to Texas to take the required training and meet all the other eligibility requirements. I have emailed the DPS to ask if a current license holder that is moving to another state must repeat the entire training and application process to change to a non-resident license, or perhaps you can just make a phone call to have it changed. I’ll let you know what they say.


  13. I’m new to this podcast, but have been in the firearm business for 25 years. As others have pointed out, the ATF form 4473 and the dealers Acquisition & Disposition records chronicle where each firearm came from, and went to. I recall the dealers aren’t required to retain 4473s for more than 20 years, but the A&D retention is permanent. These records remain with the dealer for the duration of their license, and must be surrendered to BATF within a specific period of time after the license expires. This system has two glaring loopholes for privacy advocates. First, many states do not have a record keeping requirement for private firearm transfers, particularly long guns. Guns that are legally off paper are sometimes referred to as “ghost guns”, and are a known headache to gun ban proponents. This is likely the true motivation behind the so-called gun show loophole. Second, “firearm” in the Federal context refers to guns made prior to January 1, 1899. Any firearm made on or before the last day in December 1898 is *not* affected by Federal gun laws & regulations. Some of the Mosin-Nagant rifles are pre-1899, as are a few Nagant revolvers. They use modern ammunition, too. These guns, which may be bought and sold like common property, are commanding a premium in gun auction sites.
    Also note many states have a mandatory background check for *handgun* transfers (read: dealers must be involved), so the state will have fairly up-to-date records of handgun owners.

    Also note that black powder arms can be viable under the right conditions.

    Keep up the good work!