Episode-1067- Listener Calls for 2-8-13
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Join Me Today as I Answer Your Calls
Today on The Survival Podcast I take your calls on cooking, silver, guns, permaculture, fedge’s, community, remote prepping, paddock shift, chickens, privacy issues, self defense and more .
Remember to be on a show like this one just pick up your phone and call 866-65-THINK. The best way to improve your chances of being on the air is ask your question or make your point up front, then provide details.
Also please do your best to call from a quite area with a good connection and speak up so you can be well heard. I can’t put all calls on the air but I do my best to get most of them on.
Join Me Today As I Respond to Your Calls and Discuss…
- Preparing rice without using heat at all
- Are there any concerns about exchangeability of different forms of silver
- Is paleo eating sustainable long term as a way of life
- Choosing between a carbine or a handgun
- Another guru says PMs are bad and can’t back it up
- Thoughts on varieties for a fedge “food hedge”
- The importance of friends and community in a breakdown
- Thoughts on overwintering chickens
- Paddock shift for reasons other then ground disturbance/grazing
- A real story about sharing shooting with others
- Prepping when you are already in a remote area (like an island)
- Self defense at home when a gun is not an option
- Concerns about the government knowing about your silver
- Thoughts on the non concern about small flock chicken coop odor
- Who should be trusted and is bigotry one way
Resources for today’s show…
- Members Support Brigade
- TSPMint.com
- 13Skills.com
- Join Our Forum
- TSP Gear Shop
- JM Bullion – (sponsor of the day)
- Survival Gear Bags – (sponsor of the day)
- Harry Dent saying Silver Will go to 4 Bucks in 2011 (what’s up Harry)
- Chris Duane on Why Silver Confiscation Won’t Happen
Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon. Also please enter our listener appreciation contest and help spread the word about our show. Also remember you can call in your questions and comments to 866-65-THINK and you might hear yourself on the air.
I’ve been following paleo since end of 2009. At 5’8″ (and a naturally very thin frame) I went from 205lb to 165 and kept that level (easily) for several years. (note: 165 on me is still “fat” imo, just not AS fat).
I don’t do pure paleo. But I DO stay away from grains (and would recommend anyone else do the same) except for rare occasions. Paleo is an excellent way to lose weight if you are VERY heavy, but it won’t get you very lean without some modification. It’s also a great way to help with other things like skin conditions, sleep apnea…
Some foods, within the paleo community, are “borderline” or not really agreed upon. Some argue rice is perfectly fine or potatoes. The basics of paleo though is to stay away from grains and industrial food and processed sugar. You will get enormous health benefits if you do that. If you eat a lot of fruit or potatoes you aren’t really going to lose a lot of weight (unless you were just in really, really bad shape maybe).
If you want to get fairly lean, you need to take it to another level. I think a low-carb, ketogenic diet is the best way to get lean. I’ve recently taken on a low-carb diet (with one high-carb night per week) and have shredded almost 20lbs of fat in about a month.
The problem with a diet like that is, if you don’t have a “good” diet to go back to when you’re done losing weight, you’ll just gain that weight back. Paleo is an excellent way to maintain your weight. I weigh myself everyday. If my weight goes outside a range I’m comfortable with I can instantly adjust and bring it back to where it needs to be within a couple days.
If you want to get pretty lean, I would recommend first adopting paleo and working that into your lifestyle. You’ll probably lose some weight. Then after a year or two and you’ve really made it your lifestyle, consider a low-carb ketogenic diet to shred down to “lean.” Recently I’ve been following the “Carb Nite Solution” protocol and find it insanely effective for losing fat. Add in weight-lifting for serious results.
Bingo! I could not agree more with this.
-Sean
Especially the grain thing. On advice of my NMD I removed ALL grains from my Diet on Nov 6, 2012 and within 1 day I noticed LOTS less brain fog and some areas of my skin that would never heal from acne cleared up.
You know what I never thought about it but that is another benefit. In the past I would get bad rashes in the heat. I would get them on my back and sides, just red, and little itchy bumps like a very mild case of poison ivy. I know it was heat that brought it out because they would vanish in a cool shower and I never got this in winter. I would also really break out in the heat around where I shave my neck. I would even get some acne in the hottest months. Not the occasional pimple we all get from time to time I mean like I was back in high school every August.
I never really even thought about this until you brought it up. All of this is in my past, I haven’t experienced any of it in over two year. I have to agree there is a connection in getting off toxic foods and this type of thing.
I’ve had eczema for a long time, and it gets better when I eat clean.
I also get acne after eating like pizza or other wheat/sugar combos for two days. It clears up when I get clean.
@Jack: No doubt the combination of heat and diet could affect what you’re describing, but on a slightly unrelated note all men should try shaving with a double edge razor if you don’t already. Far better shave and little to no razor burn. Also far cheaper.
I got my wife to start using a DE and she was very hesitant but now loves it. She doesn’t get any bumps from shaving anymore (and have you priced womens replacement blades? wtf?)
Not to hijack the conversation, but for dogs with skin issues/allergies often one of first recommendations is to put the dog on a “grain free” diet. I’d say dogs are even more designed by Nature’s God to be “paleo” even more than we are so I’m not surprised that you folks have seen similar results.
Fwiw, I was diagnosed w/ ulcerative colitis some years back. After listening to Jack’s paleo journey & the interviews w/ Robb Wolf & Dr. Greg Ellis, I switched too and after my last endoscopy I had NO fissures at all!
Another paleo/low grain success!!
If silver went to 8 dollars tomorrow, I would back up the freaking truck.
I would sell my truck for silver at that level and start walking everywhere. lol
Wheat berries are not meant for human consumption because they are seeds and the act of eating them destroys the seed…………
Humans meant to live off of things like……………………………nuts………….
Nuts are the seeds, no?
They produce in a way were many go to seed and the rest are scavenged. They also are a “in moderation” paleo food and they have no mechanism to fight being eaten. Wheat does.
I feel for those that don’t openly work with anyone of any belief. I’m LDS and will I trade with only Mormons? No!!! Ill trade with you! I couldn’t care less how or who you believe. Those who can’t trust someone over a faith especially a Christian aren’t following christ’s teachings! We can’t survive acting like that.
“The Roaring 2000s Investor: Strategies for the Life You Want” book released in 2000 by Harry Dent at the top of the market.
“The Great Depression Ahead: How to Prosper in the Debt Crisis of 2010 – 2012” again released in 2009 by Harry Dent at the bottom of the market. Great track record!
LMAO, thanks for that!
Thanks for taking my call Jack. I first heard about Harry Dent when I watched a documentary called Demographic Winter. I watched this right before the market crash in 2008 and he was on the record as calling the crash because the big wave of Baby Boomers were heading into retirement and therefore curtailing their spending. It made a lot of sense. I never really followed him after that but this friend of mine does. I personally subscribe to your line of thinking but I was having trouble reconciling the idea of inflation occuring during a recession. Anyway, I googled his name after I called into the show and found a good article that highlights Mr. Dent’s bad calls: http://www.investmentu.com/2012/August/dent-tactical-etf.html
The bottom line is I’ll be targeting 5-10% wealth in PM’s and reducing my debt, homesteading, and learning traditional skills. Thanks for the great work you and all the TSP’ers are doing.
Lots of people called the crash, including me. The thing is anyone with open eyes could see it and this crash had 100 percent NOTHING to do with baby boomer retirement. Absolutely NOTHING, in fact due to the crash many boomers that were going to leave kept working, unemployment would likely drop of some of them did retire.
It isn’t that the issue isn’t a problem, it just isn’t yet and certainly had zero to do with 2008-2012s woes.
Got my first pistol and rifle as the Fienstien bill was being introduced. She woke me up to how fragile the second amendment is. I’m on board with protecting that right and I have no problem with pushing back.
Now I wangt to see Obama make executive orders banning guns and try to go around the process. I would love nothing more than to have that man yanked dishonorably from office.
No-heat rice: I’ll try the “no heat” method but imagine it may only work with “Minute Rice” varieties unless you soak it for a very long time. A very fuel efficient alternative is thermos cooking. It’s good for rice and quinoa (my favorite). It still takes a few hours but you save fuel because you don’t need simmering. Just use some extra hot water when making your morning coffee, a good thermos, and you’ll have quinoa or rice ready for lunch or supper.
http://blog.trailcooking.com/2012/08/08/the-thermos-method-for-quinoa/
I wanted to point that out too. I think the caller was referring to Minute Rice also that was already cooked and this wouldn’t work with any old uncooked rice. It was a great suggestion on that and makes the Minute Rice even more desirable. I never considered making rice that difficult, especially if you were going to mix it afterwards in a soup or burritos.
I think you guys are right, it seemed to me that he was saying, he you don’t need it because you can just soak rice so I got it wrong. I tried it anyway and yep soaking regular rice does nothing.
Hey Jack, Another Great Show!
As a Christian, I have to 2nd what you said, that is bigotry. Why is it that the ones who spread hate and bigotry keep getting all the attention? Most Christians are a pretty open and accepting bunch… I mean that’s really what it’s all about.
I agree with you brother. I think the why is the ones that think that way are the most vocal about it.
Truth. I live in a very rural LDS community, like at least 98% Mormon. I’m a Pagan. My neighbors and I barter/trade/share/help & support one another. We care for one another’s animals and homesteads if someone has to travel. Funerals are always standing room only and I’ve yet to be asked for my ‘Christian Card’ when entering the church to pay my respects.
In my experience LDS have been the least judgmental and most accepting main stream christian folks I have ever met. They may tell you once or twice what they believe and why and then they leave it alone, always easy to get along with folks like that.
Man, the new legislation California is pushing is putting the kibosh on my upcoming gun purchase plans 🙁
Move. That’s what I did. But this was in 2004 and I have no wife or kids and was renting a room at the time so it is easy for me to say.
x 2!!. I left CA in a large part due to the Roberti-Roos AWB. And one of the first things I did upon residency in Idaho was get a CWP.
Why? Because you can!! 🙂
Did you know most counties in NY outlaw pepper spray, many air rifles, and even sling shots. I learned this when I tried to buy sling shots for visiting grandsons.
As Jack mentioned a few shows back that the most oppressive gun law states have the most insane taxes, there was an article in Yahoo Finance yesterday about the states that most people are fleeing in 2013 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-states-people-are-fleeing-in-2013-194007689.html
3 of the the top 5 are oppressive gun states – NJ, IL & NY. CT is right up there too. Most of them have done nothing about the Firearms Freedom Act either, http://firearmsfreedomact.com/state-by-state/
Most of the popular destinations support or have passed it.
Just a coincidence, right?!?
In NY slingshots with a wrist brace are forbidden. No wrist brace and it’s legal.
Pepper Spray requires a background check and like soda, all these things are verboten in Bloomberg land. I heard he farts Unicorns.
As for Air rifles I believe Buffalo has a thing against them .
They cannot be possessed by anyone under 16 in NY.
I know some places won’t mail them to some counties because they are “c;lose” to NYC, which is ridiculous. I had that issue trying to order one years ago. They cancelled the order and when I asked why they said I was too close to NYC. I cancelled the rest of the order.
The last caller was asking about heating a greenhouse w/horse manure. If you didn’t hear Jack’s interview with Steve Harris about using movable insulation to help keep the greenhouse warm it might help you reduce your need for heating.
Soaking rice in water cold (or hot even) will only work with par-boiled “Minute Rice” type rice…it will not work with plain white rice…even if you soak it for a long time. I did this once to see what would happen and the rice eventually began to smell spoiled and was still hard. Plain white rice needs to be boiled.
as an earlier writer noted,place your brown rice , quinoa,oatmeal (that doesnt take as long as rice ) in a thermos , cover with hot h20 by a couple of inches, if done overnight in the am your have a hot breakfast cereal, nutty in flavor and texture with all nutrients and enzymes intact,,works with wheat berries too,,the most nutrition for the smallest amount of energy, and digestible
oh yeah, i am a christ follower, many a church parking lot i have fled when i have felt the eyes of judgement,,thats not what Jesus came here for,,,,
Felons have the right to vote in Ohio once they’ve “done their time.” I know some who have even run for office, one (whom I don’t know personally) is Jim Traficant, an ex-congressman who was convicted for (surprise) racketeering and bribery.
Totally agree with your comments about felons being allowed to possess weapons, Jack! As far as I know, they’re allowed to own printing presses and don’t have to harbor troops in their homes.
Same for California – convicted felons regain the right to vote once all debts to society are paid. However, felons losing the right to own fire-arms is life long, at least for violent offenders.
Bravo to the pastor!! I am certified laity and my pastor is a leftist liberal so it has been quite difficult. He does the ‘sugar coated’ sermons and I’m more into being the salt of the earth..not the sugar. I believe in a sermon that needs preaching! A couple hundred years ago, pastors would preach about the candidates and if they were not moral men those pastors made it very clear to the congregations that they weren’t worth squat. You sure don’t hear that at the pulpit today. My pastor told me politics don’t belong at the pulpit and I replied that I was glad no one told Martin Luther King that. Sadly, my pastor would NEVER allow a firearms class. Our Missions group is forming a CPR class for the community however, so at least that is one good thing.
And Jack is right. If we as Christians truly profess our faith, ALL are welcome at the Lord’s table no matter what color, creed, size, shape or beliefs they have of their own. If you’re going to talk the talk you need to walk the walk. Christ’s final commandment was “love one another”.
I would recommend any pastors conversing with liberal associates about firearms training take a minute and use your Google-fu. Look up “Deacons for Defense” and see what you can do with this knowledge.
I continue to shake my head in my lack of understanding of many of my brothers in Christ. I think it was made pretty clear that Jesus came to save ALL of the world. His fight is not with us; it is with Lucifer. I am not going to start pointing to direct verses, but I think a quick summary of Christianity is this:
Christ will reveal himself to each and every person at some point in their life, either thru other people or direct contact, His choice. The greatest gift Jesus gave us is Grace, and the fact that the Old Testament/Covenant and laws do not apply to his followers. Grace, in a brass tacks description, is getting something that you don’t deserve. This applies to everyone (even christian blockheads), what better way to be an example to others of God’s love and wanting for us to be with Him, than to extend grace to people that take us out of our comfort zone.
True freedom comes from obedience.
It is THAT simple.
I follow a Paleo branch called “The Perfect Health Diet”. It varies from Paleo in that small/moderate amounts of “safe” starches are fine, and they can be modulated depending on different people’s very specific physical conditions (some might benefit from extreme low carbs, others from somewhat higher), protein is moderate, and fat is particularly high. I recommend the book for further wonky details. It starts from a sort of paleo-premise but backs up the specific recommendations with current hard science. Neat stuff like the highly volatile Omega-6 molecule reacts with fructose and alcohol to create nasty end products. There’s a ton to it if you want to dive in, check out the book and site/blog.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/
But the basics are easy to follow and pretty similar to paleo with the largest notable exception of starches. Just this info graphic is sufficient:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Food-Plate-600dpi.jpg
EDO pronunciation
Think EDO like “playdoh” without the pl. It is not “eye-doh”. This is something I actually know about!
A great on a food hedge is “The Edible Landscape ” by Lee Reich. Check that book out.
A great on a food hedge is “Landscaping with Fruit ” by Lee Reich. Check that book out.
I just wanted to chime in on overwintering chickens in far northern climates. I am in Alaska and have done this for several years.
I keep a flock of 15-20 birds year round and have no problems overwintering and they lay all winter. With our significantly reduced daylight, we obviously have to put a light source in the coop on a timer to keep them laying, but as far as the temperature, they are fine unless it gets below about -15 or so – even then, all I have to do is close the hatch that leads to the run and the keep it decently warm in there during the coldest days and weeks.
I actually messed up this year and put a heater in the coop and it really messed them up. Lesson learned. They did not acclimate to the dropping temperatures well and when it dropped 50 degrees in a couple days, they shut down production for a while because they knew that heater was going to kick on from time to time and just wanted to huddle around it. I took the heater away in mid-December and they bounced back to normal after about a month of low-to-no production.
Our chickens have a nice insulated coop with an 8’x20′ covered run they can go outside under when they feel like it. In winter, I hang chicken wire about 8 inches above where their heads are when roosting and put a 12-18″ thick layer of straw on the wire. This helps keep their body heat contained while they roost and keeps their combs warm.
As far as feed, yes, we have to buy more feed because obviously they cannot free range in the winter, but it really isn’t too expensive. Maybe $40/month for feed at most. We also have neighbors who bring us their scrap veggies and food that we throw in there for them along with our own. I change the water out daily as it tends to get dirty and/or freeze up anyway.
As far as the smell and mess, you were right 0n. (and I would think this would be pretty universal) I use pine shavings for bedding (big bag at the store here is like 8 bucks and lasts a while) and I probably freshen the coop 2-3 times each half of winter. I am hoping to buy my own chipper/shredder this year to make my own bedding. I turn the shavings and poop over for a while and it composts nicely until it all freezes up. Then i just add shavings a few times to keep the smell and ammonia contained.
We generally get a warm snap around now (currently in it) and that is when I do my mid-winter coop clean. I shovel out all of the poop/shavings that are now unfrozen and leave them in my little dump trailer for the rest of winter. The snow will fall on it and melt periodically and it becomes a nice, moist bunch to add to the compost in the spring. (I do the same thing with my rabbit poop/hay/cedar mixture) After cleaning it out, I put a thick layer of fresh pine shavings on the ground and roost areas and fresh hay in the nesting boxes. I always see egg production go up with a fresh, clean coop.
Hope this helps some folks thinking about overwintering birds in cold climates. My biggest piece of advice: don’t go too big with the flock if you don’t have a huge area (barn) to keep them in and to keep feed costs reasonable. I went too big last year with 32 and they started fighting because they are in constant close quarters. I had to nurse a couple back to health and found a few dead throughout the winter from overnight fights.
Enjoyed the show.
so not wanting to have the Gay agenda force upon the BSA makes us bigots, if I understand Jack’s statements from today? I find it hard to accept someones opinion that has no skin in the game; that’s like me saying it’s ok for NY to enact any gun laws that they feel are lawfu (even though I live in Texas)l: of course I don’t think it’s ok to oppress a BOR freedom, so how’s forcing an agenda on a private orginazation ok? They’re doing a good job of tearing us apart from the inside
What gay agenda? What the hell are you talking about?
Sorry Jack, I have to disagree with you again. Your belittling response is typical of the bullying that the gay lobby uses against their enemies. It’s everywhere. And yes, there is a gay agenda.
NARTH is a “professional, scientific organization that offers hope to those who struggle with unwanted homosexuality”. Part of their efforts involve collecting scientific information. One piece is titled “What Has Been Concluded From 1000 Recent Articles On Homosexuality?” By James Phelan, Ph.D. Among other unsavory findings, we find the following: “Suicidation, molestation, and violence were other factors found to be disproportionately higher in the homosexual subgroup.”
Jack, you are demonstrating the success of one part of the gay agenda. You have been conditioned to accept gay rights as the “civil rights movement of our time” and to aggresively put down those who disagree.
Wrong what I accept is HUMAN RIGHTS. What part of libertarian do you people fail to understand?
the title got cut off; Are the Boy Scouts Bigots, according to what Jack said Friday Feb the 8th
Loaded question. If I say yes every boy scout (including me) is a bigot, that clearly isn’t true.
There are two questions here, one, do I support the right of the scouts to have a no gay scout master policy? Answer, yes they are a private group and can do as they please their policy is NOT the governments business. I would fight to the death to defend their right to do this.
Question two, are the people running the scouts being bigots with a no gay policy, my answer ONE HUNDRED PERCENT YES. Don’t give me no shit about child molesters either, clean up the Catholic Church first. You know the non gay (gays go to hell) priests that are also supposed to be chaste before you go there. Most molesters lead a “strait lifestyle” day to day.
Frankly this a stupid debate that distracts from anything with meaning. Like 1 in 10,000 men that want to work with scouts are gay, the entire debate is just fricken stupid. Stupid bullshit that people fight about while those in charge rape the nation of every shred of decency and every dollar we have at the same time.
Jack, you are wrong. Gays do not belong around boys. Who told you they were such great neighbors, the TV? You are the one who sounds like a bigot. And what does the Catholic Church have to do with Boy Scouts?! The Catholic priest abuse problem has multiple unique factors. The Boy Scouts are taking prudent steps to keep scouts safe. Of all the interactions I’ve ever had with gays, 100% included behavior which would disqualify them as a scout leader. Go ahead and call me names, say times have changed, I don’t care. My boys will NOT be around gays.
We are preppers because we’ve lost faith in the system. This modern world with all it’s God-forsaken (and forsaking) change is exactly what I’ve lost faith in. The system isn’t going to hell because a few parameters need tweaked, it’s because of a human nature that is just plain whacked. In short, accepting the gay lifestyle as just another choice, is part of why, along with so many other things, we are in a death spiral.
My point is there are likely 1 in 10,000 men trying to involve themselves with scouts that are gay, hell likely less. I also said the BSA have every right to deny that and I would fight for your right to keep it that way even though I disagree. IF that isn’t good enough for you frankly tough shit.
The Catholic Church comment wasn’t anti catholic gee, get a clue man. It is simply that you can’t make the case that a gay man who lives as a gay may is any more likely to be a threat to child then a strait one or even a priest.
Now I am not calling you names, I am saying hatred of a entire sector of people who do you no harm and just want to be treated as equals is bigotry. What I would call you is afraid, the fear in this comment above is palpable. You know being gay is not contagious right?
You also can’t say your boys will not be around gays, likely 10% of society you walk by every day is gay. Likely they will have a friend or two in their youth that will end up being gay.
The problem is there shouldn’t even be a need for terms like gay rights or woman’s rights or minority rights. We are all humans, done, the end. Flat out I have unlearned my taught hatred of people due to race and sexual choice. It was quite ingrained in my family. When I made a black friend in High School many of my family were “ashamed”, yes ashamed that I would be friends with a black person. I am glad I got that figured out before going into the military.
So you go around thinking you can “fix” gay people with science or more accurately science fiction. Go around thinking God hates gays and sends them to hell or whatever, that is your choice but let me tell you teaching children this won’t force your fear into their hearts. In the end they will choose for themselves how to treat others. Sometimes the harder a parent pushes a child to be against something the more it tends to back fire. I am proof of that.
See I don’t want to go hanging around with a bunch of gay men or women for that matter in my day to day life. Like most people I like to hang with people that are like me. People that want to discuss guns, hunting, fishing and out door stuff. I like my guy friends to have women who get along with my wife so we can all do stuff together. But that doesn’t require me to treat a person differently if they happen to be gay, there are plenty of people I meet who are not gay that I also don’t really want to be hanging around day to day and many for no actual negative reasons, they just don’t have a lot in common with me.
Just do this for me dude as long as you are going to have this in your heart and soul, if ever the day comes you need a organ or blood transfusion to stay alive, ask if it is from strait people before you take it. I mean you wouldn’t want to go walking around with a gay kidney or liver or worse a gay heart right?
2 thoughts:
1. This issue has nothing to do with “Survival” and thus I think it is way off topic and one that you really “stepped in” this time – probably alienated a lot of your listeners on this point also.
2. To call people bigots for rejecting everything homosexual is asinine. I am a Christian and I wholeheartedly reject everything homosexual in nature. It is unnatural, sinful, and disgusting. That doesn’t make me a bigot – it makes me a Christian who agrees with God’s views on the subject. I don’t hate the people who say they are gay, and I hope they truly repent of their ways and change, but today we live in a time where simply taking that attitude no longer cuts it.
You never saw Christians or anyone else out there pushing an anti-gay agenda, trying to abolish it. You saw people who believed it is sinful and trying to help those who wanted to change. But today, you have a homosexual agenda in every arena trying to shove acceptance of the lifestyle down the throats of those who oppose it. That has caused many of us to stiffen our backs and push back a bit as we see a war for the soul of our nation and society clearly being lost.
But don’t call me a bigot because I reject – or agree with the Boy Scouts for rejecting – gay men. I wouldn’t let a gay man have any time around or influence over my son, nor would I allow my son to camp out with a gay man.
You asked about an organ donor to try to put people in their place, but that is an analogy that has nothing to do with homosexuality. Nothing at all.
Here is the real analogy: would you let your 10 year old daughter camp out and sleep in a tent with a clearly heterosexual man? (If so, then you’re not a bigot, you’re a horrible father!) But I don’t think you would, and that is the point here: if a man is attracted to males, he doesn’t belong in that kind of role in a young man’s life any more than a heterosexual male belongs in that role in a young lady’s life.
But again, while I have strong opinions about the topic, as clearly do others on here, it isn’t one that I think is even in the scope of survival.
And fyi, equating sexual orientation with race is a losing proposition.
You cannot choose your race. You can choose your lifestyle. If sexual orientation were the same as race, i.e., you are born with it, then you would never see people flip-flop from gay to straight and vice versa. It would not be possible. But they do change, because it is their choice.
I will also have to note that this has opened my eyes as to where you stand as far as Christianity and the Bible, and it will make me listen with a bit more discerning ear now simply because you clearly do not hold the views I do.
So you are saying you could choose to be gay? Not just commit a gay act, you are saying you personally could choose to live as a gay man, be happy that way? Actually choose to be attracted by men and not by women? Are you saying you could make that choice?
Think about that I am going to assume your answer to be no. No is my answer as well. Well a gay woman once asked me, “if we [gay people] feel that way in reverse, if we feel as strongly in our lives about our sexuality as you do with yours, please tell me how we have chosen it”? She went on to ask “if society changed so that being gay was considered normal and straits were condemned, in some weird opposite land and I found myself there. If everyone knew gay was normal and strait was weird would I be gay or strait?”. My response was of course I would still be strait.
You know what, that right there ended gay bashing in my life forever. There was nothing I could say in response other then, I think I understand how you feel.
And Huey I never claimed to hold the views anyone else has and have always advised you to take what works and use it as you see fit in your own life. Please realize you don’t need to worry about how others choose to live, it really isn’t our business man. It really isn’t.
I’m not trying to open a would; I just want to make sure I understand what Jack said; I respect him for his opinion and don’t think any diffrent of your position in the big picture of things, I really get alot out of the podcast.
My point is why don’t folks that want something others obviously don’t want them to be a part of, start your own scouting program; I’m sure there’s lots of current scout leaders that will help them get started.
The backstory to this problem is alot of the sponsors of the individual troops, the Charter Orginazations are churches. Presbertirian, Methodist and others openly allow gay clergy & doctrine within their churches.
A larger majority of the charger orgs. are Catholic, Mormon and other conservative protestant sects, which welcome gays within their congeration, but not their clergy or leaders. (at least alot of the ones I’m personally aware of)
in the end, to each his own, but why does the BSA have to be politically correct when we all know that’s the way the Roman empire fell. I’m not worried about gays having sexual relations with boys, the Scouts already have a good Youth Protection program, albeit not perfect.
Thanks Jack & others for your response; It’s not something I would dwell on too much; I have a personal connection in this fight, and am always soliciting opinons, but at the end of the day the fight is mine. thanks
This is in reply to the Christians in this thread.
I am also a Christian, and I have a couple of questions. First let me say that I see where you are coming from 2 years ago, I had exactly the same ideas about Gays that you do.
Having said that let me ask you to think about a couple questions that I have asked myself.
1. Are you comfortable with your Government defining what Marriage is? Or would you rather the Church and Pastor etc. help you define what Marriage is?
If we Christians would get off this full court press against Gay’s maybe they wouldn’t push back so hard. Also if maybe we start doing What Jesus did (loving) instead of what the Pharisees did (Judging) than maybe we could make a difference in peoples lives no matter what their sin might be, instead of hardening their hearts.
There is a simple cure for the judgmental.
Read The 4 Gospels starting with Matthew and ending with John. If you still feel judgmental than you obviously missed something so read them again. Continue to read until all judgmental attitudes are gone.
2. Second Question: With all the Estrogen and other hormones that are injected and feed to animals that we eat and who’s milk we drink, do you think that could have an effect on the physiology of some people… say 10% of the population?
Do you think that it is possible that this is not a black and white choice issue or at least makes it more likely for something to be not quite right? Do you think it could be possible that a lot of Gays really don’t have a choice after all?
Oh, I thought of another! Bonus question time!
Do you think that when God’s perfect creation was broken by sin that it is possible that the natural order of things were messed up?
Do you think it is possible that this rise in homosexuality is more of an effect of the problem than a cause of the problem?
This is why I so love listening to Jack. He talks about healing, relationships, building community, helping each other, and healing the earth with permaculture. Christian or not he is doing the work of Christ.
Jesus said that he came to save the world, not to condemn it. Why are we so quick to condemn the world? Do we think we have a higher calling than Christ?
Comparing someone who doesn’t want gays involved in a private youth organization to a racist is offensive. Comparing the “gay rights” struggle with institutionalized racism is patently absurd and offensive. Let’s take a look:
Slavery – no comparison
Lynchings – no comparison
Jim Crow – no comparison
back of the bus or jail – no comparison
white only facilities – no comparison
segregated schools – no comparison
police harrasment – no real comparison
Any gay couple can make arrangements to handle estates and medical decisions. The extent of discrimination they face today is not much more than having their feelings hurt and certainly far, far, far less than what happened in the century after the Civil War.
See the problem there Matt is just because the things you list are worse you think what is done to gays isn’t bigotry.
Here is what I don’t get about people like you, why do you give a shit what gay people do if they are not bothering you.
I also do NOT get why when person like me says I would defend the BOAs right to exclude gays with my LIFE even though I disagree with it isn’t good enough?
Seriously how are some of you people that warped? People are willing to let you run your lives your way and do things they disagree with and that isn’t good enough, no it is only good enough if you agree with them?
Take gay marriage, dude, it isn’t any of your business and if you church disagrees they don’t have to sanction or accept it. Why do you care? How can it hurt you?
Oh and how apart from your religion can you make a case against it? This is a republic not a theocracy, your faith doesn’t apply to those who do not share it. The government is to make no law preventing your religious choice or practicing of it but you are not supposed to use the government to force adherence to your faith (even part of it) on another man. Seriously why is this so hard to understand.
Just to be clear I am neither for nor against gay marriage in the biggest picture I just don’t care. Frankly as a libertarian I don’t think the state belongs in the marriage business at all. I am more worried about 16 trillion in un-payable debt and a lingering war where our president is able to KILL US CITIZENS with no due process. I am more worried about the pending collapse of 150 major US cities and the hundred million Americans that will loose jobs and pensions when it happens. I am far more concerned that our children are consuming GMO crops laced with atrazine and glyphosate then the fact that they might speak to a gay person.
I don’t get how anyone focused on their own life has the time to worry about the choices of another that do not effect them personally.
Jack, you wanted to know “why do you give a shit what gay people do if they are not bothering you”. The boy scouts were minding their own business and the gays came along and wanted in. As far as trying to make people agree with me, you are the one who brought this up. So you are allowed to bloviate your opinion all around but I’m not? You also have this recurring theme that you supposedly don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect you. Pretty ironic coming from a guy who has an opinion on everything else. Face it, a lot of things bother you. You draw your lines and want to insult me for where I draw mine, and then you can’t handle it when people push back about what you said. I can back up my position. It’s simple: 1. being gay is against the laws of nature and nature’s God 2. Gays molest more, it’s a fact. Your entire argument is basically that you don’t care. Fine, stay out of my business. I’ll associate with who I want. You and your gay friends can go form your own club.
Again Matt I support the right of the BSA to not allow Gays and that isn’t good enough for you, seriously this shows you have a real hatred problem. It isn’t enough that I would in my own words defend your choice with my life, hell no that isn’t shit as far as you are concerned, no I must agree with you to make you happy. You have a real problem in your soul if that is your actual stance.
Also your claim “gays molest more” is without merit, unless you say any molestation that is same sex is molestation by a gay. If you look at openly gay men there is not a single percent of your argument that is defensible.
Yes I have an opinion on everything I just don’t feel it is my place to force anyone to apply it in their lives. I say my piece, I don’t force you to listen and I don’t try to use force of government to impose my will. Star Wars lied when it told us that hatred makes us strong, hatred and fear make you weak Matt. Very weak!
I don’t object to your opinion I just disagree with it. I support your right to have it and would do so with my very life and again you are so damaged as a human that isn’t good enough. My problem isn’t your opinion or how you live, it is your desire to force it on others with force.
If I lost money in my IRA in 2008, then I could cash in some part of it and count the loss towards my penalty and possibly not get taxed or penalized ? That would be news to me if that is what you are saying .. I’d like to know ..
I don’t eat 3 square meals either and was influenced by fasting and so on for many years. Too much carbs is definitely bad if you don’t burn it off, though for athletics activities you need some carbs. However, it is my understanding that wheat is a very ancient form of food going back to the golden crescent area of ancient Mesopotamia. People where eating wheat in the bible and so on and it is my impression that it has always been a staple. I think there may not be enough protein in it for vegetarians however, though you can make sietan out of wheat glutten which is a higher form of protein and a half way decent meat substitute. Seitan was invented in ancient asian cultures as a meat substitute for buddhists and it is the protein part of the wheat condensed.
Fedges –
It was talked about using one to seperate your yard from a busy road. Through my own research and understanding, if you want to eat the food that is produced this way it is probably not a good idea as the plants absorb the toxins from all of the car exhaust and therefor you ingest it by eating said plant (s). I don’t know if there are certain plant speciesout there that would eliminate this as being an issue or not, but it definitely would be a very good idea to do your own research to find out before planting a fedge to eat off of next to a busy road.
Wow how many times are we going to hear this one and give it any creditability. We are not to eat a plant or a plants product grown near a road because of toxins that it can uptake from the air near the road?
Um, wow, remember “no smoking sections” in air planes. I would say there were about as useful as a no peeing section of a pool!
In the air we all breath daily there are likely 60,000 – 65,000 toxins. The air at the back of your yard isn’t likely to be much different then the one on your street. I would rather eat an apple from a hedgerow along a fricken inner state highway that was grown naturally then one from a orchard that was sprayed 4 times with various toxins so bad the guy with the sprayer has to wear a respirator any day of the week.
As many times as I have heard this I haven’t one time seen the results of a control vs. experimental group of such plants tested and published. One author just pulls something out of his ass, so another quotes him, then 145 blogger read the books and it goes into a few forums, etc. Soon it is something “everyone knows” but yet no one can ground any of it in legitimate or meaningful fact.
This is right up there with tires being toxic when used for earthships or landscape timbers making gardens toxic. Seems like it makes sense on the surface, lots of folks saying it is true but no proof and doesn’t really pass the test if you know a bit more then “tires are dirty” or “cars have exhaust pipes”.
Great stuff today. Just a comment on the self: you may have mentioned it in a diff podcast– training. The best self defense whether it is with a gun, sword, any weapon or empty hand- is with training. Training is best wih an instructor, second is through studying videos/books, in combination with practice drills and equipment you can build conditioning, muscle memory and strength/speed. The main lack without training at a school is timing/distance with a variety of people.
I will agree that it is most likely still less toxic than stuff sprayed with pesticides.
An excerpt from an article on cattails I recently read (http://holeinthefence.net/2010/11/02/wildcrafting-4-the-cats-meow/ ) –
Cattails are a super filtering systems. They will take up the pollutants, heavy metals, chemicals, and clean up the water. However, all those chemicals and pollutants are now concentrated in the plant. If you eat from a plant in a polluted area you will be getting all the contaminates that plant took out of the water.
I haven’t done the research to verify the validity of their statement or how it would translate to a fedge near an active roadway, but thought I’d throwit out there as a ‘some plants act as a filter’ kind of thing. I will start looking into it to see if I can find a credible study or anything to back it up.
I disagree this is off-topic. I agree with Jack 100%.
I am a Christian, and I include God in my life with my family. I attend church on Sundays, and I try living my life according to biblical scripture.
What is important to note is that I am libertarian and I do not support the government forcing my morality down the throats of others. What people do in their homes is none of my business as long as they are not taking liberties from others.
What I have found with many different neoconservative Republicans is that they want to force their morality with the help of government intervention, (via marriage, war on drugs, etc.) That includes at the federal and state level.
It is the most hypocritical neoconservative ideology I have encountered and if we are to live in a community, tolerance is something all must possess. Being tolerant does not mean you condone behavior you disagree with. Intolerance led the Nazis to do what they did.
If you believe a certain segment of people are going to burn in hell, keep it to yourself and don’t force your views on the world. This is like neoconservatism in justifying being the policeman of the world because they believe they are above all everybody else and everybody must conform to their view.
Therefore, Jack is simply highlighting the libertarian principle of tolerance and having any form of government force morality on others. I believe marriage is between a man and woman, but who am I to condemn gays and act as I am without sin.
I have Republican family that won’t watch actors in films based on their political party affiliation. I mean this is simply sick. Look I get frustrated and angry with people that don’t understand the U.S. Constitution and original intent of the framers, but I am not going to disavow family, friends, neighbors, and even those I disagree with.
I won’t even get into the obsession for the military industrial complex that we have to worship the state or we are un-American. This is another sick argument.
I had family that wanted to disown me because I believe Glenn Beck is a fraud and liar and not a libertarian who mocks people on his radio show and is profane and making veiled references about two men in a shower. Beck told his listeners to surrender their guns when the government came and to not protest at capitols for your second amendment rights. So we are all going to disagree with things, time to find common ground and work together and form coalitions and join forces.
You are a Christian? Yet you want to keep your beliefs to yourself? You probably need to read the Bible again – focus on the parts about hiding your light under a bushel and about evangelizing the world.
You should also re-think tolerance. Christianity NEVER teaches tolerance of sinfulness, anytime, anywhere. God does not tolerate sin. Ever. We are not called to be tolerant of the sinfulness of others running rampant in society. We are to take a stand against it.
And as for forcing things, I don’t see us doing that at all. I see the liberal left and the homosexual community forcing their immorality on our society…a society that used to be based on morals. Now all of a sudden anyone calling things wrong that used to be called wrong is “forcing their morality” on everyone else. What about the fact that they have changed what is considered moral over the decades and now things that used to be called wrong are now called “alternative” lifestyles?
Marriage, etc. are societal issues that have long been defined. You are proving my point about forcing things. Marriage is already defined, but now they want to REDEFINE it to what they want. I am fine with homosexuals getting tax breaks from the government and having some form of recognized union from the government. I do not expect the government to legislate morality or religion. What i do expect is that homosexuals and/or other groups to come uo with their own ideas. If they want to be joined in a commitment, fine, but call it something else. MARRIAGE is defined and taken. NEXT…
Sorry, but this is my society too, and I don’t want my kids growing up in a society that calls good bad and bad good. I will fight back when and where I can. If gays want to be gay and not tell anybody, it’s their business. If they happen to let it out, I may feel compelled to share the gospel with them. But when they start having gay pride events and shoving their sin in my face everywhere I turn in the media and politics, I am compelled to push back.
You said “God does not tolerate sin. Ever.” Good sir might I suggest that you better read your bible because the central tenet of Christianity is all men are sinners and no man is without sin. So if what you claim to be true was true well, God wouldn’t tolerate any Christian. As no man is without sin, all Christians are men and according to you “God does not tolerate sin. Ever.”
So by this claim no man is tolerated by God.
Sorry to teach you your own faith but what you profess to believe is that all men are sinners and only the grace of God and the salvation of your lord Jesus Christ saves them. So a gay man is no different then a man who lies or covets or fails in any other way is just as damned as a gay man or for that matter an adulterer or a killer or a person that disobeys the wishes of their parents.
All of these are sins and according to your own faith damn all sinners to hell apart from accepting Christ. So if a gay accepts Christ by YOUR OWN FAITH he is equal to any other sinner. Done the end, over, out.
Yes, Jack. No man on his own is tolerated by God because we are all enemies of God as sinners, unless we are in Christ, and His righteousness covers our sin and pays the penalty that we can’t. Read the book of Romans and it is very clear there. An unrepentant gay man is in no worse shape than an unrepentant adulterer or murderer but if they are granted repentance and turn from their sin then they can be adopted as children of God.
Anyone who remains in their sin is a slave to their sin. Go to a gay pride parade and tell me they aren’t slaves to their sin. It defines who they are. Adulterers and thieves don’t define themselves by what they do. You don’t see parades of thieves (not counting the congressman in the limo in the Christmas parades).
Anyone who professes trust in Christ but does not hate their sin is not trusting in Christ after all. I hate my sin and would tell anyone not to ‘love’ their sin, including the homosexual. It would be most unloving not to share the good news that you can be forgiven of your sins, released from the slavery of sin, be transformed from a child of the devil to an adopted child of God and have peace with God forever. But if I tell that to a homosexual then I’m a ‘hater’, lose my job or be thrown in jail? That is what is happening all over the country.
Jack,
First, let me reiterate that I don’t see how this topic has anything to do with survivalism, but I will reply just the same because I do have an opinion.
To address your comment, you are exactly correct in what you say: no man is without sin, and a gay man who repents and accepts Christ is on the same footing as any of the rest of mankind who does the same.
But you are missing a key point: no man comes to Christ on his own terms! I did not come to Christ and tell Him how I was going to live. I came to him a sinner, sorrowful for my lifestyle, and I repented of my sinful lifestyle and began to follow Him. If a gay man does this, then yes, there is no difference to God whether the man was gay or a liar or anything else. But a gay man cannot come to Christ and STAY GAY, any more than I could have come to Him and stayed in the sin I was in.
To say God does not tolerate sin and then equate that with not tolerating a Christian is, again, asinine.
We love our children, and we have expectations and rules for them, yet we do not tolerate certain behavior from them. My son would NEVER be allowed to hit his sister. EVER. To say I am tolerating that behavior by disciplining him instead of killing him or disowning him is stupid. I tolerate my child. I do not tolerate certain behavior. It is the same with God. We live under grace, which ultimately means we don’t get consumed by His wrath every time we commit a sin. But He does discipline us and expect us to change. There is no tolerance for sin. If God could tolerate 1 sin, He could tolerate them all. And if so, He would never have sent His son to BECOME SIN and kill it once and for all.
God hates sin so much that He put His son on a cross and it PLEASED GOD to do so. And sir, THAT is the central tenet of Christianity.
So the key is according to the two of you is to be a self loathing sinner, then you get in?
You can see playing out here why I seldom discuss religion, it will be a long time before it happens again.
You can also see here why I am a Deist and do not follow any organized faith.
Huey and others,
Please do me (a fellow Christian) a favor, and read the Bible for yourself instead of just listening to your pastor and his agenda.
While you are there count the number of times the Bible says God Loves, and how many times that the Bible says God Hates.
Yes, we are to be a light and spread the message of love, grace and forgivness that was the life, death, and ressurection of Christ. Do you think anything you have said in this thread has done that?
Where does the Bible say that judging others is the way to let your light shine? How many people have you shared the Love of Christ with this week? I am not refering to preaching to them about their sin, I am refering to loving them by actually doing something to help them.
How do you think Jesus got all those people to listen to him and follow him? I can promise you that he didn’t just walk up to them on the street and start judging them for their sin. He healed the sick, lame, and blind. He helped people before he taught them, and he never judged.
I am sorry that you have been taught that you must point someones sin out before they will listen to you and repent. This is certainly not true, in fact the opposite is true. You must first love, and show Christs mercy, and grace, then people will repent. The Holy Spirit convicts, you do not. It is not our job to convict, we suck at it because we do not love like God does. Only he can love unconditionally enough to be able to convince someone of their sin.
Thank God! I mean can you imagine if it was our job to convict others of their sin? What a terrible burden that would be! We can’t even deal with our own sins, much less the sins of others! That is why Christ came in the first place, we were stuck in our sin and the only way out is to let him take the burden of our sins on himself.
Yes, Christ became sin on the cross for us, but he was raised 3 days later. Our hope is in the ressurection of Christ. He is the first of the new creation. We can decide to be a part of that new creation, by loving others, loving the world, and helping to heal the earth. Why would we waste time judging others when we can help to heal, like Christ did.
One more thing.
If the message of Christ is one of Love, Grace, and Forgiveness, and you keep talking about hate, judgement, and condemnation, you might ask yourself who’s side are you really on?
I remember reading about a guy who cooked his wheat in thermos. He also made soups for lunch.. He brought the soup ingrediants up to a boil and poured it in the thermos for his lunch meal. I use soak rice overnight in the fridge. I don’t recall is being very soft… the in theory the concept sound..
Yet you want to keep your beliefs to yourself?
I am the steward of my family. I teach my children, and my church teaches my children Christian principles we strive to live by. I learn by my pastor, and we share the word of God with each other.
I have no right to break into the homes of non-believers and force my beliefs on them or force others to conform to my faith. Free will is a basic foundation of libertarianism is also a basic tenant of Christianity. Use of force is not free will.
I spread the word of God with my family and by my actions and examples to my neighbors and friends. I do nudge family and friends to include prayer and Church in their lives, and the tenants of biblical scripture in advice I give. But it’s hard enough for myself to live by the scripture let alone force those who sin, as I sin, to conform to my faith and preach on the streets as a hypocrite.
Judgement is for God, not for man. My faith supports the “Just War” principles of military action. Neoconservatives and liberals do not endorse this belief, they love endless war as long as their party affiliation endorses it. The idolize the State and those who serve it.
We should not worship the State, and we should not force our moral or political beliefs down the throats of others by the force of law, or bombing civilian infrastructure and women and children and discard it as collateral damage and righteous.
You have a right to your beliefs, just don’t force it down everyone’s throat thinking you have the higher moral ground to do so.
If we live in a community with various different Christians, Deists, Atheists, other faiths, how are you going to get along with others that don’t live the way you believe should be living?
Cast them out, stone them?
The short Japanese short sword is call a wakizashi. And machete is also a good choice for home defense.
You bet on the Machete. On another option this is VERY pricey and I can’t justify the expense but it would be one hell of a CQB edged weapon. http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/35ATCJ/SAN_MAI_III_GURKHA_KUKRI.aspx
This version is half the cost and likely more then anyone needs in quality anyway, may be some day but not anytime soon I think http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/39LGKI/GURKHA_KUKRI_PLUS.aspx
Danger. I already spent too much money on ColdSteel. You can bet on all CS knife. We need to find you a knife fighting for the show.
Jack, you seem to assert that deism is preferable to ‘organized religion’. Well, let’s analyze deism for a moment. Every worldview, be that a religion or a philosophy really needs to have answers for four questions in order to be coherent in any sense.
1. How did we get here? The origins question.
2. Why am I here? The purpose question.
3. How should I live? The morality question.
4. What is my destiny? Is there an afterlife or consequences for my actions?
Origins? Deism only slightly outperforms atheism on the origins question. It has somewhat of an answer for how we got anything out of nothing, life from non-life (abiogenesis), consciousness out of non-consciousness, etc..
The other three questions are pretty much unanswered.
Purpose? Is there any objective purpose for living in a deistic system. If the one who created us has no further contact with us then there is no objective purpose to be known, only a subjective roll-your-own search for meaning.
Morality? Atheism and deism have no objective standard for morality. Even if you think a natural law was put into place with the big bang then what restraint is a law if there is no enforcement and punishment for breaking the law. Atheists and deists can be moral and ethical people, of course, but what objective moral grounding do they have for their moral stances? What’s your standard, Jack? How can you ever tell me I’m wrong, but instead that you just don’t like it. Are you just holding up a hand-made STOP sign or the real thing.
Destiny? Are you just going to be worm food? Is there no judgment you face? Is there no judgment for the mass murderers who got away with it, like Hitler who poisoned himself and died peacefully in his mistress’s arms? Is there no reward for doing any good? Atheism and deism seem inherently unjust in this sense. Justice is seemingly meaningless in these worldviews.
How does deism even support libertarian philosophy? Aren’t you just asserting that individuals have a right to liberty with no objective standard to appeal to? How so? Isn’t it like a father-less kid saying ‘Do it because my dad said so!’, and nobody has ever seen or heard from this dad and he’s never coming back?
I think Christianity does provide moral grounding for a libertarian philosophy but it beats me how deism could possibly do that. Oh, and if you want to threaten to pound my face for these comments then how consistent are you in your assertions to not compel others through force or fraud? I’ve lost count how many times you’ve done that on the air to the listeners you profess to love.
Jack, you’re a smart guy but I don’t think you could have seriously considered the philosophical ramifications of your worldview. It is obvious you don’t understand mine.
p.s. I’m not just some troll. I’m an MSB member for the second year now and have listened to every show for the past several years. I think I have demonstrated my level of tolerance for your views now can you demonstrate a similar level of tolerance? I don’t mean agreement, I mean rational discussion without threats or violence, the traditional view of tolerance. Are you just going to call me a bad name, or twenty?
See you NEED something outside of YOURSELF to answer all those questions, I don’t.
Deism is about reason, I have NO DESIRE or NEED to convince you of anything, I am totally comfortable with you believing whatever you want about God. That alone should answer your question as to how libertarianism supports deism. I believe in liberty because GOD GIVEN REASON supports it.
I don’t know why you have your panties in a wad dude but get over yourself. I never said Deism was better then whatever you believe, I simply said it is what I believe.
This is the problem many have with people like you, mutual acceptance isn’t good enough for you.
Might recheck the definition of atheist and agnostic. Agnostic is the belief that the answer is unknowable. Atheist is the lack of believe in a god, but could change if given evidence. And what you defined as atheist is probably more like arrogant moron.
I talk to atheists often they are always clear, they say they know there is no God, as for definitions.
Atheist – a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings
Agnostic – One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God. or one who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism
Those are text book definitions, if you insist on labeling yourself choose wisely don’t expect others to modify the definition on your behalf. Again I don’t care what you believe but when you tell me or most people you are atheist or agnostic, we are going to assume you know the definition of the word you use to define yourself.
Again I can’t profess how much I don’t care what you choose to believe.
As an FYI, I believe that Richard Dawkins even states that you can be only at best agnostic. People will say they are atheist (he even uses it as shorthand for himself). However, if people try to be very logical and objective in their reasoning and thinking, the only real conclusion is agnostic. He beliefs that science can neither prove or disprove God. To be atheist is to say that you have concrete proof that God doesn’t exist.
Do I agree with him? No, I do believe in God, scientific proof unneeded. But I am willing to sit and hear the man out. He at least tries to be logical about this beliefs when most people just get far too emotional on both sides.
When most people get too far into the weeds of picking apart what God is wanting of us. I usually find myself simply going back to the Sermon on the Mount, and reflecting on the fact that even Jesus provided Grace to the worst sinner on the planet. Paul says this in his letter to Timothy. I have no doubt that Christ whispered this realization to him on the road to Damascus. So if that is the case, the rest of us, can and will be saved as well.
Again, to the legalistic christians, believe, and re-circle the wagons with the Sermon on the Mount when we are dealing with both followers and non-believers in everyday life. I know you don’t think you are judging others, ‘you are merely trying to save their souls.’ Be careful, there is a thin line between those actions, and I think it is obvious the impression left for many:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Evangelizing is good, but it can only be done with two other important things in place: love and relationship. One or both of these are lacking many times, and though the Message delivered is of good; it is not received as genuine.
Jack, you’re right on those definitions. I’ll give credit where credit is due. Lots of atheists now try to use wiggle definitions like “Atheists just laaaaack belief in God.” By that definition, my cat is an atheist.
When someone encounters a proposition of any kind, they would either agree with it, deny it, or withhold judgment. If someone is told, “There is a God.” They may agree and thus be a theist. They may deny it and thus be an atheist. Or withhold judgment and thus be an agnostic. Playing around with the definitions just to avoid tough arguments is for chickens.
I couldn’t care less who someone sleeps with…and I think I’m lucky to have a pro-gun, pro-privacy, housing-building, garden-tending gay survivalist couple as neighbors watching my back rather than Huey, Greg, or others of their mindset.
“See you NEED something outside of YOURSELF to answer all those questions, I don’t.”
Why do you say stuff you don’t believe? You contradict yourself moments later.
“I believe in liberty because GOD GIVEN REASON supports it.”
You do need something outside of yourself after all, reason given by God, or do you not mean what you are saying there? I also believe there is yet another objective standard you depend upon outside of yourself. Are our rights given to us by God or by government? See, you do believe in external objective standards outside of yourself. Your language betrays you.
You still haven’t answered my questions about where you get your standards for purpose, morality and destiny. Speaking of destiny, or whether there is an afterlife, I want to also ask you: What do you do about your guilt?
“I don’t know why you have your panties in a wad dude but get over yourself. I never said Deism was better then whatever you believe, I simply said it is what I believe.”
Don’t go describing me like that. You were the one who went on a rant calling others bigots. I just asking where you have any standard at all for making that judgment without it also defining you equally as a bigot.
“This is the problem many have with people like you, mutual acceptance isn’t good enough for you.”
I already explained my tolerance for your views but that doesn’t mean I accept them as valid when you make assertion after assertion with no reason, or grounding on which to make those judgments. Your deism leaves you like a man with feet firmly planted in mid-air. I asking you to examine the ground you claim to stand upon. In the meantime, with no discernible or stated moral standard then don’t tell me anything is ‘wrong’, but that you just don’t like it. If it isn’t an objective moral standard you can appeal to then why should anyone mutually accept your personal rules instead of their own? The emperor has no clothes.
Jack,
I’d like to comment on you last issue about faith and bigotry. I agree with you. I’m an atheists and and fine with everything you said. I don’t need that positive reinforcement that so many groups need. The overriding characteristic about how I feel towards other people, groups, etc, is how they treat others. That’s it! If you’re an asshole, then I don’t want anything to do with you. If you treat others well and look at them as a fellow human then I’m fine with you. It’s really simple. I appreciate your comments.
Charlie
Another option for non lethal home defense – the Dazzler. Here is a link to an open source DIY version:
http://vimeo.com/6788840
The basic premise of this device is that it changes dilation of the eye at a certain rapid rate which causes the brain to freak out. You get really disoriented from it. I have worked with other forms of light technology using DLPs and have seen this firsthand at around 8hz oscillation rates.
Interesting discussion on religion. Getting back to the caller’s comments, I don’t think I’d try to feign belonging to a given religion. When you find others that welcome you as you are, bingo!