Episode-1625- Expert Council Q&A for 8-14-15 — 49 Comments

  1. Regarding whether a solar minimum corresponds to a cooling of global temperatures, I have no doubt that the Sun has a lot to do with the temperature of the Earth. 🙂 I also know that in the past a solar minimum has occurred around the same time that the Earth went through a cooling period. But that implies that a lack of sunspots indicates a reduction in solar heat output and I haven’t see proven.

    I looked for journal articles on the subject in JSTOR: search terms (solar minimum global temperatures). I read a couple of articles by Mike Lockwood. He lost me in the math, but he was pointing out that trends in the past linked with solar activity has been working just the opposite in the last 20 years. So… I don’t know. I’ll have to run these articles by my son. He can do math without pulling off his shoes to count. 🙂

    The articles I saw were…

    “Solar change and climate: an update in the light of the current exceptional solar minimum” by Mike Lockwood in Proceedings: Mathematical, Physical and Engineering Sciences, Vol. 466, No. 2114 (8 February 2010), pp. 303-329.


    “Recent Oppositely Directed Trends in Solar Climate Forcings and the Global Mean Surface Air Temperature” by Mike Lockwood and Claus Fröhlich, Proceedings: Mathematical, Physical and Engineering Sciences, Vol. 463, No. 2086 (Oct. 8, 2007), pp. 2447-2460.

    I wish I could say more but these are very technical articles written for technical people in their field.

    Alex Shrugged

  2. Jack,
    Thank you for the weekend inspiration at the start of today’s show! Congratulations to Honey Locust Home and all the rest of us who have seized opportunities to drive our own futures! There are certainly challenges, but they’re worth it.

  3. Jack at 30 min in you apologized for going long before the expert council. I know that the topic for Fridays is the expert council, but hey man, it’s your show.

    We tune in to listen to you talk about what you want to talk about. Keep up the great work.

  4. Thanks for the plug today Jack and thanks to those fellow TSPers that have checked out our site and Facebook. I think the TSP directory is a great idea. We would love to support other members of the TSP community beyond the MSB.

    I will send a bottle of my stout for sure but you might prefer it in a soap over a bottle…not that it is bad but I am a much better soap maker than I am a beer maker…just saying

  5. I would like to agree with what Darby said about small scale pigs, we are doing 5 pigs this year. I also bought 7 100 ft rolls of the premier netting and built a training area out of hog panels for the piglet (you need to use hog panels not cattle panels since the cattle panels bottom holes are large enough for piglets get out; that was lesson one after the pigs were on the property for 5 minutes or so since I had one cattle panel left over from the chicken tractors) For food and water we set a 4 door hog grower gravity feeder that hold 400 lbs of feed on a pallet and put that pallet onto skids, we then installed a cast iron bowl water to that same pallet and attached it all to a scrap 4×4 I had with a hose connected to it, that hose run uphill to a 300 gallon ICB tote, that will provide enough pressure to run that water any where on my property with enough hose. we leap frog the 1/4 acre paddocks every 2 weeks or so depending on how the area we placed the hogs look. You can also tell by how hard they are hitting the feeder. I know Joel lets his hog run out before he moves them but we feel they tear up that smaller paddock more with that so we go off how the paddock looks and we drag the feeder/water pallet combo forward into the next paddock with the pick up. Its great to know that we came up with a similar system to Darby.
    I really enjoy this show format, keep up the great work Jack.

  6. While I can’t speak on the belts that Bryan black recommended (which are probably very good belts), the best belt I have ever owned hands down was made by Jason christensen at concealment solutions. It’s a non-tacticool normal looking belt that I’ve worn every day for the past 4 years and you would never know it…so durable.

    It’s the one without kydex in the center as I think that one might be too stiff for EDC. He didn’t have th horsehide one when I bought mine, but I have some horsehide holsters from him and they are insanely durable.

    He custom makes them so if you want more holes for a changing waistline it’s no problem.

    They aren’t cheap…price or quality.

  7. For the person looking for more ways to use prickly pear fruit, (locally known as pear apples), I’ve never done it but have tried them, they can be canned like watermelon rind, just use peeled and de seeded pear apples in place of watermelon.

  8. One note on the guy who asked about the firewood. He might also be talking about face cords which would be like 5 to 10 full cords a year. One thing I found out quick when I started burning is that a lot of people will say cord when they mean face cord.

    • Hi Matthew and Jack!

      I was the guy who asked about the firewood. Unfortunately my brother’s “compound” is not using face cords, but full cords. At the moment he has a shed that is 40′ by 20′ with the giant boiler in the middle and 8′ tall stacks of wood on all sides. The boiler can burn anything small enough to fit through the doors; so he often will dump an entire 3′ diameter round into the boiler using his tractor.

      However, Jack made an excellent point – we really have no good estimate of how much wood we will be using, because so many variables are constantly changing. For example, between last year and this year we have dramatically invested in spray insulting the houses because there was absolutely no insulation between the floor of the house and the crawl space, so when it was 20 below zero F outside, the crawl space was 50-60 degrees F! That will dramatically help with wood use. However, they also had a VERY large barn built that will be heated via thousands of feet of Pex in the slab of the barn, heated by this same boiler; so that will increase the wood usage.

      However, Jack’s comments definitely smacked me in the face – if we have a 100% variance in our estimate of wood use, how do we plan? So I think our plan for this winter is to very carefully monitor how much wood is used.

      I also was probably wrong about “old growth forest.” Michigan was heavily logged from 1840 to 1890, so you are probably right that this is not 1,000 year old forest. But it definitely looks like “fully successed” into forest. The woods have lots of 100 foot oaks, plenty of fallen and dead 50-year old trees, not a bit of light hits the floor of the forest, the soil in there feels like a sponge when you jump on it. It is what you see when you go to a state park, and walk a thousand yards off the trail.

      It’s very fun, a great resource, but also incredibly intimidating; because the only tool I have is “attack the edges.” I’m not going to go in and clear-cut an acre or two because of the environmental destruction that would cause. However, there are all kinds of areas along the edges that gets tons of sun, or I could knock down a 30′ stretch of garbage trees to start the black locust. In a lot of ways, I feel like a 40 acre fallow corn field would have been easier to start with. Because you really can’t screw it up any more than it already is. 🙂

      Also, thanks for the recommendation of rocket stoves and other better uses of the wood. I am very slowly introducing them to more sustainable concepts at a rate that they don’t freak out and “kick the hippy out.” They are making huge progress, and I will be able to help them with things like a rocket stove in a greenhouse; but not in their pretty and traditional living area.

      Nick – if you happen to still be in this thread, do you have any thoughts on the best way to propagate black locust? I see I can buy seed or bare roots. I don’t mind buying a start of one of those; but after the first year I would like to help them reproduce them on their own. I have both the Permaethos PDC and your plant propagation course; so I just need to know which method you would recommend and I’ll go watch those videos again.


      • That’s a lot of wood…. The only other thing I would have to input, is the wood he uses dried for a couple years? It’s not as critical for outdoor boilers since you don’t have to worry about chimney fires catching your house on fire, but efficiency of wood usage is still equally effected. And if he is dropping in whole rounds, I would say he is loosing a lot of heat to boiling off moisture in the wood. Here is a more in-depth look at the numbers:

        The recommended drying time is usually 2 to 3 years for cut, split, and stacked wood. With rounds split at least into quarters. So cut this summer/winter, let dry for the next 2 summers. It’s a lot of work to build up to that since you essentially have to play catch-up, but in the long run, you’ll burn less wood. And you’ll have the following year’s wood pile to fall back on for really cold, heavy usage winters. Think of it as a 2 is 1, 1 is none for wood usage 😉

        • Wow, that is an awesome link! They dig into the BTUs/pound, how much energy it takes to evaporate the water, and so forth. That’s huge. I would have guessed it might take 10% of the energy to dry the wood first, but it’s not – it’s up to 50%; that’s amazing. We have been thinking about clever ways to use solar power to dry the wood, because right now it is completely covered to prevent rain from getting to the wood. But I bet putting the freshly split wood into a greenhouse type structure with a small fan exhausting the humid air would greatly increase the drying time without any energy use.

          Also, trying to back into the amount of wood he is using; I looked up the boiler, which I’m pretty sure is this one: It has a 32 cubic foot inside area, and assuming he can fill it 50% full because of all the gaps in between big pieces of wood, that is 16 cubic feet of wood. He needs to refill it every three days. A cord of wood is 128 cubic feet. So he uses one cord every 24 days. If we assume he is running it from October – April, that’s 183 days, or only 7.6 cords of wood. So either my math is way off and the air gaps are smaller than what I’m thinking, or he isn’t even using 15 cords of wood.

          Thanks again for that link, that is great!

  9. I am very excited to hear about the TSP business directory. It would be fantastic to see some of the local business I can support that I just don’t know about. Fantastic idea!

  10. Jack, John –
    Thank you very much for taking my question, for the business advice and for the motivation. One of the things I struggle with is being overwhelmed by decisions.

    How does one know if they are “wired” to be an entrepreneur? I am a Myers Briggs INTP with ADD, OCD and a MBA.

    Thank you and I look forward to listening to today’s “Do it Now!” episode.

    • You likely are not wired to be an entrepreneur.

      Entrepreneurs are often ADD but they are seldom OCD!

      To be blunt you have too much bullshit in your way, too much concern for shit that doesn’t matter. You will spend to much energy making shit perfect and perfect is the enemy of the good.

      Your choices, get the fuck over it or work for someone like me that hires you to see to making one aspect of what I need done perfect. See that type of attitude (everything must be perfect) has a place it is also a commodity.

      There are somethings I need done perfectly or at least as close as possible like say a contract. So a guy with a law degree who is OCD is what I need to write that contract. But I can and this might sting, JUST FUCKING BUY THAT.

      That same guy will never own his own law firm.

      Building a business is a fucking mess, nothing is ever perfect, EVER. You have to let shit go, get shit done and move one.

      FWIW I am a person with Asperger’s and I am an ESTP

      Meaning – I am a fucking disaster as an employee and have no choice but to chart my own course. Every blessing comes with a curse.

      • Although there is hope, Bryan Black is very successful and VERY and I mean VERY OCD, he is not however ADD. So you have to pick one of those to fight off!

    • The only one of those that’s going to hurt you is the MBA. 😉

      You MIGHT want to consider statistics as a way to short circuit your OCD tendencies when you’re trying to stop thinking and start doing.

      What the heck do I mean? Well as an INTP, you want to do things ‘the right way’. But, in reality, its not possible for you to account for every possible variable, and gather every possible bit of knowledge (you are not omniscient).

      So logically, there is an OPTIMAL amount of knowledge/certainty that you can gather before you should LOGICALLY take action (appealing to your INTP).

      In other words, its possible to develop a rigid set of rules, and then rigidly adhere to them, that include the flexibility to reevaluate and restrategize.

      The problem of course is if your ADD cancels out your OCD to the point that you can’t even adhere to your system. 😉

      But.. there is another issue.. are you really ADD and/or OCD? How do you know? To what degree? If so, is it being exacerbated by your lifestyle and environment? Can you adopt new habits, or change your environment to effect your tendencies?

      Then there is Jack’s advice. Join a team where your tendencies are needed, and their strengths fill in your lack. There is no ‘one way’ that is best for everyone, you need to figure out what works best for YOU.

      Along that line you might want to check out Peter Drucker’s ‘Managing Oneself’.. its a quick read.

    • Jack – thanks for the advice; it does sting but now I am aware. So, a business is like making sausage?

      Insidious – Thank you for Drucker’s article; he is brilliant! I don’t really know if I am ADD and OCD (I am probably Asperger’s, too). I am afraid to find out if I am any of these things as they might take my guns away if it goes on record. I have my quirks. They are very much exacerbated or mitigated by lifestyle, habits and environment. A strict Paleo, anti-inflamatory diet with intermittent fasting and ketosis helps tremendously. In fact, I was Paleo without knowing it when my symptoms alleviated. Exercise, neurofeedback, meditation, supplements and nootropics are also highly beneficial. Alcohol can degrade my performance for 1-2 days after drinking. I’ll see how I can apply your other tips. Some entrepreneurs minimize the insignificant decisions they have to make to focus on the big things – right down to wearing the same outfit and eating the same thing every day.

      I sent this to Jack this morning but probably not in time for today’s show: Fits perfectly with my question to John Pugliano.

  11. In regards to not doing it for fear of doing it wrong; BWHAHAHAHA Got some words of advice here GET OVER IT. That is coming from the Queen of doing it wrong. Don’t worry about it. The faster you mess up and fix up the faster you learn. The faster you get to where you want to be. Business, homesteading, jobs, personal finances, yup been there and screwed each one up. Repeatedly. Just keep going you learn you grow. Then you learn how to fix those screw ups really really fast.

  12. A bit late in the game here but just listened to this episode and was re-inspired and now have a very basic question: In California it takes about $800 to do all the legal mumbo-jumbo (name, license, taxes, state, city, Fed) and that is BEFORE the initial inventory and operational setup for a home biz. That is a month’s groceries for us and hard to swallow for a home biz that may not bring in a ton of income. And I do leatherwork, wife makes earrings and we both make CP soap and skincare products. All are currently giveaways to friends until we feel comfortable launching into business. I can’t imagine spending $800 x 3 so we can run the 3 micro-businesses. We just plain don’t have the dough.
    Is this how people do it? Is there another cheaper, quicker way to leap into business?…outside of moving out of California? 🙂 …which we constantly consider…
    thanks for any input.

    • If I live in CA I would move, I can’t be more blunt then that. CA is one of a VERY few states where such things are needed for a small home based business.

      I know what I say is easier said than done but seriously do you want to live the rest of your life with CA making you beg for the MOST basic rights our nation says should be protected for all?

      Here is why, say you bite the bullet, pony up the 800 are you done? Nope now pay one of the highest income taxes on your money in the country on top of it and if you have inventory at the end of the year they fing tax you on your own inventory. Sorry but WTF, CA doesn’t deserve many of the good people that live there.

      • Can tell ya in Vancouver WA clark county we also have to do inventory once per year so we can pay “use” tax on every thing we have in the office. Or you can just pay a flat rate if you don’t feel like counting every frigen pen. Not sure if that is state wide or not. That is seriously messed up. On a hope business you have to get written permission from each neighbor if your business is going to have more than 4 I think it is people including deliveries show up at your door. Course the same people who gave their permission can also take it away. Grr.

        yeah still looking at moving. Not easy must keep within hubby’s commute time. To good of a job that he loves so wont walk away from it. Not sure Oregon is much better.

    • Oh and if you do do it in CA why in the F would you get three licenses? One business can and SHOULD do all those things.

      But read this page and get sick of it and move the hell out,

      This would be enough for me, holly shit, screw those vultures,

      “Do you need a California (CA) business license?

      Of course you do! In California, if you operate ANY type of business you need a general California city business license. This even applies to California small businesses and home-based businesses, or a business that does not make very much money. While there is no California state busienss license, if you are in business in any city in California, no matter how small, you need to apply for a business license in your city.”

      Holly shit if you live in CA, walk to fricken freedom. Hell screw walking, RUN!

      “Of course you do”. What a bunch of to be blunt, fucking pricks.

  13. Thanks Jack. Yep, I work in a corporate supply Chain environment with other skilled people, some CEO level, that are “crafty” and we have discussed the insanity of going into small business as a side project in California. Basically adding a bunch of extra work to pay more taxes for very small returns. Freaking kills me. I just want to check that I”m not missing something…I guess not dammit. I live in Sonoma County, craft businesses everywhere, but Cali regs will eventually snuff them all out when the economy dips again. Got a buddy in DFW making a move sound very attractive…

  14. …and to your second entry, HA HA! That is EXACTLY why I lobbed this question here on TSP, I could not wrap my head around the idea it could be this complicated…but there you go. Even the city clerk couldn’t make it not sound like a shit show.

    My concern and lack of clarity with combining all products into one business would be marketing focus, how to drive each product to the right end user/consumer. For crying out loud my wife just wanted to sell her freaking earrings on Etsy but not at this cost.
    Been a listener since episode 89 in your old car. Thanks for everything Jack.

    • Don’t ask permission, don’t explain anything more than the minimum to people like that.

      Answer questions this way, “what is the nature of your business”. Answer = crafted gift items. DONE!

      As to marketing what the fuck does that have to do with a company name? I mean really?

      Leather work, jewelry, soap and skincare are all “craft gifts”.

      At TSP I sell basically events and memberships, you think I need a separate company to market both?

      Nine Mile Farm will be adding quail eggs and micro greens to what we do, I won’t make two more companies to do that. Frankly Nine Mile is really only a DBA anyway. Everything is technically under TSP. You may want to find out if one company can work as several DBAs in Ca with one set of paper, but YOU DON’T NEED that and the answer is likely no because those pricks are greedy for sure. To tell you the truth Nine Mile Farm isn’t even a DBA it is just the name of a place.

      Sears markets lawn equipment, power tools, clothes and installed siding. I don’t even get your thinking here. Likely it was from talking to and trying to explain things to a person that works for government and their stupidity temporarily infected you. So take an anti bullshit pill and get on with life.

  15. @steelhead1969

    ..and the training is complete.

    Instead of getting on with doing.. the first question that springs into an American’s mind is:
    ‘From whom do I need to seek PERMISSION to do x? Who must I dance for, and how much must I pay for APPROVAL of what I want to do? What fears must I live under, lest my LICENSE be taken away, or the LAW changed so that I can no longer practice?’

    • I’m sorry, is this directed at me? Do you have another suggestion to get around the stupid fucking dance and hurdles that the “powers that be” throw up at every angle to drain our pockets? Do you have anything to add other than what “Americans” think? Maybe I missed something. Thanks for the feedback but to be blunt you don’t know fuck-all about me or my background. Its hard enough to hold on to what I have without taking on the extra fear of being nailed with taxes I wasn’t aware of, the fear of having my house taken away for not submitting the right bullshit form, the fear of my daughter not having a roof over her head…THOSE are my fears. THIS is why I haven’t “gotten on with doing”, because at every turn there is some fucking pitfall that will either eat what little money you have, or land you behind bars. This is what I’m trying to clarify. I’ve lived a good portion of my life outside of the system. I’m extremely cautious when it comes to working within it…

      • I think his point is you could be likely doing business person to person under the table if you really wanted to, just as one example.

        He is pointing out how controlled WE ALL ARE. The fact that most get a sinking feeling when we see a cop car even if we do nothing wrong, etc.

        You can take it personal or you can take it personal those are your two choices but the choice between the two is actually what it motivates you to do.

        If a doctor says you have cancer, you can be mad at the doctor but he didn’t do it did he?

        • So yea, looks like I read it as if he was saying that I was some sort of puppet for the government with my “american mind”. I fully, and historically, understand the concept of working under the table, we barter/trade our stuff with others…did construction for years under similar circumstances. But in terms of buidling the biz there are very real concerns. You made it clear by defining that were all controlled by the same bullshit system. I’m definitel pissed at the cancer not the doctor, but if Insidious is the doctor he needs to work on his penmanship.

        • All doctors are cruel and brutal in a way when they have to be.

          You are dying.
          You are going to kill yourself if you don’t stop ____________.
          I have to cut off your leg.
          You child is going to die.

          And all have shitty penmanship. None are ever going to work on it, their job is hard enough.

      • absolutely NOT about you as an individual steelhead. As you say, I don’t know anything about you or your situation.

        Just musing on the fact that the default response in our society now is to seek out ‘the authorities’ for ‘permission’.

        The fears you’re stating are exactly the point. You want to do x, but you don’t know if you’re permitted to. And you’re afraid of potential punishments for taking action without the ‘proper’ permission.

        I’m down in Marin county. And this is exactly why I’m leaving CA. I live in constant fear that I’m violating some rule that will land me in prison. Not due to harming a fellow citizen, but simply because some asshole in Sacramento has decided that I’m doing something ‘wrong’.

        In my experience visiting and living in other states.. I don’t feel that way after I get out of CA. I actually fear the government of CA MUCH MORE than I fear the federal government. Simply because the laws here are arbitrary and capricious, and ‘punishment’ is sporadically replied.

        San Rafael passed a fire ordinance that you can’t have a tree within 100 feet of a structure if you live on a ‘wilderness boundary’. If you have a tree and they cite you, you are fined several thousands of dollars per tree, or jailed, if you don’t remove the offending trees.

        The catch.. to comply with this ‘ordinance’ would require that almost EVERY TREE in the entire city be cut down (most of the lots are 1/10 of an acres). So EVERYONE is in violation of this ordinance.

        Occasionally, someone is randomly (?) cited under this ordinance.

        Reasonable law, or simply a tool of fear and oppression?

        So.. totally NOT making a crack about your situation or actions steelhead, just very very sad.

        • Yea, sorry for being touchy and for misunderstanding, I get what your saying and am in full agreement. I guess the pressure in this state and especially in the “larger” Bay Area get me a bit twichy.
          I have many friends that are blind to what this state imposes on its serfs so I find myself either trying to illustrate the BS to them or just throwing up my hands. As you well know being in Marin Cty, most of the people here are completely blind, especially now that the economy is strong again.

          I ache to bail out but my aging in-laws are here. (Actually in San Rafael, on one of the wooded streets in the hills ha ha!) At some point we just need to decide and jump…we’ve had a couple false starts over the years, another source of my angst. An old buddy in DFW would make it really easy for me but all I know is the North Coast. The killer is coming up with the money to visit each location when were just trying to tread water as it is.
          Thanks for the input and the references. Good luck with your move!

    • What actually prompted this comment was a talk I heard where the speaker stated:

      ‘The goal of government is to make every human action require a ‘license’. And thereby, to become the gatekeeper and controller of all human action.’

      Which made me think of Lysander Spooner..

      I realize this isn’t very helpful when dealing the the EXISTING bureaucracy. For that, I would recommend going to the library and checking out the NOLO guides, specifically for CA (it takes a team of lawyers to keep up with the changes here).

      For an even MORE horrifying example of the way this ‘licensing’ is being used against us:

      Specifically.. the requirement that someone wanting to open a restaurant (in NV) needs:
      ‘A complete list of vendors. Said vendors must be USDA certified wholesale food suppliers. No farmer’s markets, supermarket or home grown.’

      • Good stuff, thanks. I have several old friends that consider themselves socialists, with a small “s”. Ultimately it is modern fantasy BS but what scares me is watching them willfully give dependency to government…often without thought of actually what is happening. Many of these old friends grew up in subculture “fuck authority” etc…but now they are older and are bowing to authority. It is amazing and horrifying to watch. Sometimes taking the red pill is a pain in the ass.
        there is something called C-TPAT (Customs Trade Partnership Against Terrorism) in global trade that essentially casts a net through the supply chain, vendors and suppliers, to audit security all around. Those that arent’ up to snuff cancel out the certification more or less. Its now a law…yet, but another way of monitoring businesses through the guise of protection. Just more of those little peeks in a global system getting ready to pounce…or something.

        • The only socialism with a small s would be an anarchist. That said many anarcho socialists are also fake anarchists.

  16. Yea, hey I’m just a simple operations guy, not a marketing guy ha ha! Just winging it here, trying to build a brand off the “know your customer” type mindset, but what you say makes a lot of sense. We never considered combining the products under one banner. The clientelle is going to be very different base on the specificity of each end product but we can work with it.
    Thanks for the kick in the right direction.

  17. Jack, which book of Charlie Papazian were you recommending? Amazon has a few choices. If you said it I missed it. Thanks!

  18. Steelhead-
    Maybe I could sell you products for you for a percentage ;-D Or, I could have an app or deep web service created to make a location-free/favorable location for entrepreneurs trapped behind enemy lines. I’ll call it Galt’s Gulch! What about Prop 65? Seems like everything causes cancer and birth defects in California.
    Regarding the fees, $800 seems in line with what a lawyer will charge but see what you can do yourself. Is it mostly applications and forms? Look into services like Legal Zoom, etc. Many states have programs to help small businesses get legally established (so they can pay taxes). I am an Anarchist but they are going to be taxing you anyway.
    What is the payback period for $800? What is your distribution model? Craftshows or storefront? Online? Are you a business or hobby? The IRS has a definition. Does Kalifornia? What are the odds of enforcement and the penalty? What do the illegal aliens do? If caught, maybe you could say it is a proof of concept before you take the plunge into business? Luke Callahan puts getting your first customers before making it official:
    Couple articles for your consideration – set up a business elsewhere, even if you can’t leave. And then you still have it when you do!
    The 4 Hour Workweek is an excellent book, btw. You need to read/listen to it and get some ideas for a virtual business.
    I would make a plan to get your in-laws out now. They aren’t getting any younger and it isn’t getting any easier. It might take a couple years for them to accept the idea. Use the time to do virtual research. I moved to New Hampshire without hardly any research and visited the state the first time for the job interview. Move to New Hampshire – it’s awesome!

  19. I don’t mean to disappoint you Jack, but GMO soy and corn are pretty common both in Europe and here in Ukraine as well.

    • It can’t be grown there and it must be labeled for sale there. That is why you are aware of it, it is labeled, right?

      • Yeah, it has labels. Almost anything you buy in a store would say “no gmo”, however I do not believe some of those labels.