Episode-1687- Expert Council Q&A for 12-4-15 — 35 Comments

  1. I am going to attempt to explain why vaccines are not safe.
    This is my personal experience.
    To arrive at that conclusion I used a health journal.
    Several years ago I developed kidney problems, my ankles swelled up. The doctors were clueless as to the cause, multiple treatments showed no result. It lasted several years. I finally started keeping a health journal to see if there was a pattern. I recorded everything I ate, drank, or got from the doctor.
    The pattern that emerged was my condition got extremely worse after each vaccination. Flu, tetnus, or hepatitus it didn’t matter all resulted in much worse swelling.
    About the time I figured it out the doctors told me they couldn’t help. I have never had another vaccine, the doctors had me test my kidney function around 3 years ago it was totally normal.
    They were curious but skeptical about my recovery.

  2. As a person with a daughter damaged from vacation I can not accept the risks ever. Seeing what she has to live with and the total change in her after an extreme reaction to a vacation I beleive the risk far outweigh the potential gain from protection of non life threatening illness. Add to that the ted talk where bill gates says you can’t just kill people to reduce population so vacation is his go to choice… If you take 10 years off 100 lives you effectively eliminate one persons life span. This subject makes me so mad I cant talk straight so I’ll quit here. Each person has to make their own choices and if you are a person who can lay their life in the hands of government who proves without fail to never be truthful,then by all means reap your rewards.

  3. It’s not the job of doctors to tell us what vaccines work. It’s the job of statisticians.

    Saying that the flu vaccine is 70% effective means… what? If I swim in flu viruses I have a 30% chance of getting sick? Is that an ANOVA, T test, chi squared, or what?

    For the flu vaccine to be effective you need to be exposed to the virus AND have it multiply AND not have previous immunity AND be lucky enough to have the CDC guess the right strain AND have your body respond to the vaccine. That’s a pretty narrow statistical event.

    I get vaccines. I assume I’d have died 4 times by tetanus without the vaccine. But it works. The flu vaccine is little more than a “best guess” that gets credit for success when any of the above ANDs step in and stop it. The actual effectiveness of the flu vaccine is way overstated and I feel the CDC literally lies about it.

    I’m not angry that people are trying to prevent disease; that’s wonderful. But misrepresenting the data and claiming success with so many lurking variables is shameful. And sadly most people lack the statistical knowledge and risk analysis background to critically analyze these silly numbers.

    I got very angry last year when the CDC website claimed that the flu vaccine was 70% effective (it wasn’t; they guessed wrong) and even if it didn’t work it would reduce the symptoms. What? The vaccine was bunk. You had as much chance of preventing flu by using a voodoo doll or nordic runestones. Perhaps the CDC believed the placebo effect was 70% effective… But that still loses to my non-invasive runestones.

    All in all, I believe there could be a flu vaccine worth getting but the math doesn’t bear it out currently. And when the CDC, a vaunted hall of science, is clearly lying to our faces. And while I am in favor of tetanus and Polio vaccines the flu vaccine is still a mathematical loser.

  4. Jack, can you or Bryan Black tell me more about the “anti-break” film he mentioned? My elderly mother is very afraid of the fact that both our front and back doors have glass windows. Even though we live in a rural and low crime area, she is afraid that as things get worse, someone can break the glass and get in. Of course, there are all the windows as well — all of which are single pane. We’ve discussed various options for how to fortify the doors and windows on a very tight budget. I am wondering if the film might be a viable option to give us a step up in security and mom some piece of mind.

  5. A $1700 “fine” for not getting the vaccine? That is rubbish, and I would tell them to sod off. Personally, if the flu does me in, it does me in, whatever… it was my time.

  6. Regarding Jack’s challenge to find false statements in the Judy Mikovits “Whistle-Blower” Youtube Video:
    Her research has been repeated by larger studies; and the XMRV virus has not been causally associated with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS).
    For a detailed examination, see

    Regarding Dr. Bones’ quantification of the number of people who get Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) from vaccinations, which I am probably mis-remembering as 1/100k – 1/1mil:
    It is unknown how many people get GBS from vaccines, if any. Some studies show no increase in GBS after large-scale vaccination efforts (such as 2009 swine flu). It is true that some people get GBS after vaccination, but this does not prove the vaccines were the cause. Some people get into car accidents after being vaccinated—correlation is not causation.

    Regarding Jack’s dismissal of herd immunity:
    History will not be kind to this dismissal. See:
    In general, Jack’s position on vaccines is not the common-sense-middle-way. Instead, he is falling prey to a logical fallacy of false-balance. It is not true that anti-vac is one extreme, and CDC is the other. Instead, anti-vac is the extreme and CDC (vac schedule) is the logical schedule.
    It is true that I have not listened to the Mikovitz interview, however the analysis of her claims has to be taken in the context of the entire CFS and XMRV literature. I cannot falsify her claims that she was arrested and her work shut down; maybe she was and it was. What matters is if her results were valid and repeated. I may look into this if the above links and argument do not reasonably settle the matter.

    • So the best you can do with Dr Mikovits is a conflicting study on one issue.

      How about being ORDERED to destroy data?
      How about being thrown in jail for not doing it?
      How about a 4 year gag order over the data?

      I think it is clear that you are so inside this industry that your perception bias is blinding. And any scientist that uses wiki to make a point, well….

    • Just checked and you have NEVER made a single comment that was not in defense of drugs and vaccines here. NOT ONE, that says everything doesn’t it?

    • Jack says:
      “…you have NEVER made a single comment that was not in defense of drugs and vaccines here…that says everything doesn’t it?”
      I only comment on claims in subjects in which I am informed and/or experienced. I have consistently challenged your claims against the CDC vaccine schedule. This does not “say everything” about my challenges in a negative way; instead it is an indicator that I am consistent. My claims seem to be consistently in support of drugs/vaccines because I challenge assertions made on the show in support of alternative medicine and alternative vaccine schedules. I simply ask for the evidence that these alternatives are superior to the standard of science-based medical care.

    • Jack says:
      “So the best you can do with Dr Mikovits is a conflicting study on one issue.”
      I think the XMRV virus as cause of CFS is her main line of “research”, though I agree I have not done a deep-dive on the issue.

      Jack says:
      “How about being ORDERED to destroy data?
      How about being thrown in jail for not doing it?
      How about a 4 year gag order over the data?”
      I assume these are claims she made in her video. Again, they may or may not be true–validity is the first thing to investigate (instead of taking on faith). If they are true, the next thing to investigate is the reason for such actions.
      Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a difficult condition to study, and has a history of pseudoscientific treatments and quacks–it may be a psychiatric disorder.

      Jack says:
      “I think it is clear that you are so inside this industry that your perception bias is blinding. And any scientist that uses wiki to make a point, well….”
      This is just ad hominem.
      Wiki is an accumulator of evidence, and it is the references in Wiki which provide the evidence. I was there (and a very, very minor contributor) when Wiki came out, and have a great respect for the results of the Wiki process (though nothing is perfect).

      • So you only exist here for one issue and no matter what is presented you toe the party line? You are frankly of no use to this community and seem to be one of the typical a-holes that follow what I do only for the purpose of bitching about it.

        You are a new world poster boy as well, one of the people that should have never seen that poster because you are not qualified to use or understand it.

        I think you are getting close to being done bothering me too.

        • And you are running your beak about a video you didn’t even watch and therefore your opinion is unqualified. Further they are not claims rather they are matters of public record.

        • Lastly you CLAIM to be an authority and be a professional. You have done so several times. As such please state your credentials and they better damn well be verifiable, or you are absolutely done here. Frankly had you never claimed any said status I would not hold you to any such standard but as you do, put up or I will indeed shut you up at least here. You need not provide these publicly by the way but if you are going to claim to be a “professional in the industry” and other such past claims, yea going to need to know what that means if you are going to use my platform for your statements of so called fact.

        • Jack says
          “So you only exist here for one issue and no matter what is presented you toe the party line?”
          Again, I only post arguments against non-science-based claims. Most of Jack’s questionable claims (in which I am informed) are alternative medicine claims.

          Regarding my use to this community: That decision is for the members who wish to understand how to use the scientific method to examine falsifiable claims.

          I follow the podcast b/c I learn a lot about subjects in which I am not well-informed. I cannot comment on those. I am not bitching about what you do, and if you would stick to refuting my arguments instead of calling me an a-hole; you might fill the gap in your knowledge in which I am expert.

          “You are a new world poster boy as well, one of the people that should have never seen that poster because you are not qualified to use or understand it.”
          I don’t know what that means?? We are the same age with similar corporate and entrepreneurial paths.

          Regarding: “I think you are getting close to being done bothering me too.”
          My comments are not for you–they are for those in the community who wish to better understand how to refute claims skeptically.

        • Jack says:
          “you CLAIM to be an authority and be a professional. You have done so several times.”
          I have an M.S. from UC Davis, worked for Biosource Genetics, Bionomics, Chiron, Bayer, UC Davis labs (4?), Shriners Burns Inst Galveston, and started own biotech company that went nowhere. 15 years in the industry.
          Adjunct Biology Professor for few years for Ohlone and Contra Costa Colleges. Currently professional beekeeper in California selling honey in 25 stores.

    • Jack, I hope you keep our discussion on the site as it will show your listeners how you react to reasonable skepticism.
      As for me failing in my industry–it is true that I never ran a successful biotech company and do not have tenure as a professor; but I make good money in my current industry with much more autonomy and with less time investment. The same could be said of you and your past/present?
      In all, you have treated me with a lot of unwarranted abuse, and I doubt you will leave up the postings between us.
      We do agree, however, that I am done posting here…

      • Sorry man you have gone on and effing on about “being a professional” as spoke as if you were a doctor or some shit and hell if I would even consider “professor” to mean anything anyway.

        From your own description you were misleading people the entire time. You worked in biotech.

        So you comment constantly on medications and what is and is not an illness and you have NO experience with medications, prescribing them or even working with them.

        You comment on vaccines but you have no experience with them.

        You are a fake! You might as well be a physicist or a meteorologist and be commenting on this stuff and say since you’re a scientist your opinion has greater weight.

        I am glad you are happy keeping bees and glad you are happier doing that than being a tool of the establishment.

        That said our situations really are not similar. I left by choice at the top of my game and I don’t misrepresent what my professional background is.

      • Oh and damn you talk like a millennial

        “you have treated me with a lot of unwarranted abuse”

        You sound like a weak ass 20 something. Abuse? How the fuck is a person abused in a blog comment? Do you know what the definition of abuse is?

        Good lord, we in GenX can’t say shit about GenY and the Millennials. Not with as many soft skinned types among our own ranks. Abused?



        Abused, every person that uses said word due to comments online should be smacked in the damn face by people who were actually abused in life! If you think this is abusive you don’t know what it means to be abused.

    • Herd Immunity is a Myth, and history proves it:

      “The Leicester Method and Smallpox” —

      Even supporters of vaccines admit that quarantine, clean water, and nutrition eliminated smallpox. Not vaccines.
      (Sidenote: Smallpox vaccine created in 1797, smallpox eliminated in 1980, 183 years later.)

      Vaccines are so safe that the pharmaceutical companies need to be protected by lawsuits from vaccine injury. That’s right. BY LAW you are NOT allowed to sue pharmaceutical companies if you get injured by a vaccine.

  7. Regarding cook kits: I use a stainless steel mixing bowl with a pie pan for a lid. Drill a hole in each side and use an old bike cable for a handle. They are super cheap, pretty light and don’t have corners for things to get stuck. It’s a real inexpensive option for those BOB’s or a camping cook kit. If the weather is nice I make a tripod from sticks and hang the pot over the fire. In bad weather I use an alcohol stove – HEET (gas line antifreeze) is a readily available fuel source.

  8. On Rabbits, I’ve heard Salatin say a couple times: “1 acre of grass put through rabbits is worth $45,000.” Now, that’s likely gross, not net. And who knows how many rabbits that is, etc. I emailed back and forth with Diego of PermaVoices and he said he’d look into doing an interview with Daniel Salatin (who, as I understands it, is the rabbit guy of the family) on that statement. Not sure if anyone else can add anything else to this, but I’d love to hear more.

    • I really want to believe that. Concerns,

      The way the FDA regulates rabbits is plain stupid. It is almost impossible to do anything except on farm sales. That is a LOT of processing.

      Daniel Salatin is an awesome guy but one of his rabbits sells for a LOT more alive as a breeder than dead as meat. Makes me wonder if that is part of that number.

      Work needs doing on bunnies to make them more of a pastured animal and in a way that is easy to move daily etc. Daniel is sure as heck a pioneer on that front.

      I hope Diego does the interview, my biggest questions are not about production they are on marketing, sales and processing issues.

    • Hi Stephen,
      I hope you are notified of my post as it has been a couple weeks. I have been raising rabbits commercially on a small scale since 2012. I have also been to the Salatin’s farm and seen their rabbit setup. I believe most people get the wrong impression on how they raise rabbits. All there breeding stock is up off the ground in the rabbit/chicken “rackin” house and fed pellets. The rabbit tractors I saw also had free feed pellets inside their tractors. The grass is only supplemental. I would highly recommend that you do not put your breeding stock on pasture as their is a high probability in my experience they will get parasites and die.
      I doubt I have ever been consistently profitable with my rabbitry. The cost of maintaining your breeding stock is such a burden on the process that you need to breed your rabbits with in two weeks of kindling and quickly cull any doe that does not consistently produce litters. You have to be extremely diligent with your records making sure that you breed them early and keep them bred. I still have my rabbitry even though I am certain my lack of attention has made it a financial loss more often than not. I just really like raising rabbits. I am able to get $10lb and they sell fast. I raise my rabbits out to 12 weeks which is longer than the industry guys because I like the 3.25 lb carcass more than their 2lbs. This does cost you a bit of efficiency, but I do not care because the rabbits are a very minor part of my farm.

  9. Good news on the scabies: the newest line of monthly and once every three month flea and tick preventatives (nexgard and bravecto respectfully) appear to be very effective at treating canine scabies.

  10. On supplementing chicken feed with sunflower seeds…
    If you can, definitely sprout. It increases nutrient density and reduces fat.

    Be mindful of the amounts of high fatty oil content of any seed/grain with your birds. We have an ultra healthy backyard layer flock but lost one suddenly this past summer to fatty liver disease. After the necropsy and diagnosis, the pathologist commented that a normal backyard layer may have a half inch of fat deposits in certain areas on the bird, but our girl had two inches of fat. Her liver became so fragile it ruptured from normal activity and she internally bled out.

    We’ve since modified their diet, and part of that is sprouting whenever possible and limiting seeds and grains high in fatty oil content. My all time favorite is sprouted wheat, but I also now include sprouted buckwheat since coming across a Korean study supporting it’s use combating fatty liver.

    • Any correlation to protein content being too high (read: too much oil/fat content) and fatty liver disease? I guess what I’m saying is if you stick within the recommended guidelines for protein content based on use (species, age, etc) of a mineral supplement company, won’t that keep the oil/fat content and hence fatty liver disease in check? Stands to reason.

  11. Just a quick tip, there are various websites that will convert youtube videos to mp3. I like I can listen to the Dr. Judy interview without vertical video syndrome, and listen in the car without using up data streaming youtube. Of course it doesn’t help on video where visuals are important, but great for interviews and such.