Episode-1301- Gary Collins on Primal Nutrition and Entrepreneurship — 32 Comments

  1. “…how to market yourself without selling your soul” Sounds like a show idea to me. Or Gary’s next book (after he figures it all out over the next few years) after his health series is done.

  2. So I really enjoyed a lot of the material today. It was fun. Like so many other things on TSP, since I agree with the material, it is fun to listen to.

    However, I felt like logic for Gary’s work was running in a big circle the whole conversation. The reason we should take his diet stuff seriously is because of all his experience and likewise we shouldn’t take the young guys seriously because of their lack of experience.

    But, now Gary is doing all this other stuff and we should listen to him and his “journey” with the 10 new things he is doing despite his admitted lack of knowledge and experience in these areas. I just don’t get it.

    In regards to his “experience” in nutrition, one of the reasons guys without “experience” can have credibility in the Paleo/Primal world is because it flies in the face of so much of the institutional “education” and “experience” that gives guys like Gary credibility. Half of the movement is fueled by a distrust of the conventional, so to derive credibility via the conventional, while honestly isn’t a big deal, should be an obvious problem area.

    My intent with this comment is not to bash Gary (though I heard him say that comment repeatedly whilst he bashed his “competition”), just point out that as an information/thought provider, I think his delivery needs to be refined a bit. I think the disconnect is between how he “markets” himself in the Primal world and tries to differentiate himself vs how he truly feels about life and all the stuff he would listen to TSP for. 2 different things, but they appear to not be in congruence which to me rings untrue. Thoughts?

    • Jesse,

      I’m glad you liked the material, as I’m really passionate about what I do. I know I started rambling at times I was out of town and running off of about 4 hours of sleep, but that is no excuse.

      I honestly didn’t mean to bash on my competition, but I will admit they do annoy me at times. I have spent most of my life in athletics and the area of health, and it a little frustrating to see someone who did the Paleo Diet for 6 months now consider themselves an expert. The Paleo Diet is just one piece of the puzzle, without experience in the area of health that leaves some pretty big gaps.

      Just because the banking system is a mess would you want to invest your money with someone who read a couple books on investing, who was previously washing cars. That was the point I was trying to make, probably didn’t do a good job of that.

      As far as some of the other books in my genre, I was just trying to say my books are much easier to read for the every day Joe and Jane out there. I struggled myself reading some of the main stream Paleo, Primal and Ancestral health books, so that is where my concept came from – to simplify it.

      Now these younger “supposed experts” not having any knowledge in the area of the Standard American Diet in the form of education, I agree is a good thing. But having no background in health at all is not really something I see as a positive. You have to have some sort of a foundation in something you are calling yourself an expert in, by reading a couple Paleo books and starting a blog doesn’t make you a expert. And honestly they don’t really understand the blood sugar regulation side of things, as it shows in their body fat composition and carb bomb recipes.

      Now me sharing some of my new adventures and sharing, I’m definitely not calling myself an expert in these areas. I’m going to be writing about how I did it that is all, not declaring myself the “all knowing” there is a big difference. I did grow up hunting and fishing and was raised in a small town in the mountains, so I’m no stranger to the lifestyle either.

      Thanks for your thoughts though as I learn from my mistakes and I was probably a little too crabby yesterday and it showed in certain areas. But that is life, admit your faults, try and do better the next time and move forward.

      Gary Collins

  3. I hope to meet Gary at TSP voices meetup! Gary if you ever want help working your land in Washington get in touch.

    • Fill me in on TSP voices meetup, sounds interesting. And be careful on volunteering for working my land in WA, because I will definitely hit you up on that one 🙂

      • It is in the NE by the Idaho border. When I get things moving along I will talk to Jack about announcing it on TSP. I went pretty remote, so I have a lot of work to do in the 18 months before I can even think of asking for help. Once I get there though it would be great to have some TSP and Primal Power Method followers lend a helping hand.


  4. Gary’s clearly passionate, and he cares. I appreciate that. After hearing him twice now, he sounds like that kind of person who’d be a lot of fun to talk to. I worry that some of his message gets lost in his negativity though, and for those of us who’re trying to turn the tide, we can’t afford to get caught up in that nonsense.

    Pointing out why everyone else has it wrong and you have it right might not be the best way to get people to take you seriously. Also, insisting that young people with no “experience” know nothing because they don’t have an education or a job will certainly ruffle some feathers in a way that’s not helpful.

    No, I’m not one of those 20-somethings. I am, however, acutely aware of the fact that you don’t have to be educated (either through your job or by an institution of higher learning) to use logic and reason. That’s one of the things that just kills me in the Paleo/primal/low-carb movement. Think how people reacted to Gary Taubes. Folks seem to think that if you don’t have an MD or a PhD behind your name, you’re not capable of learning and using basic logic and reason to understand that the line of BS we’ve been fed for 50 years is just that — BS.

    The “movement” is making too much positive progress to be fractured by in-fighting. That was one of the things that killed me about Sally Fallon. Rather than focusing on the 90% of stuff that we can agree on, she wanted to spend a lot of time being VERY adversarial when it came to the small portion of stuff that we don’t agree on.

    Jack, you always talk about not falling victim to the dichotomy — the “us” against “them”, the “haves” against the “have-nots”, the young against the old, etc. The message of clean food, clean water, and a healthy environment is too important to lose in the midst of ego battles. Let’s focus on what we agree on and do our best to spread the word in as positive a way as possible.

    I’ve learned it myself first-hand. It we come out of the corner swinging, we’re going to lose a lot of credibility from the start. And I know it’s hard not to do that because so often, we’re unfairly attacked before we’ve gotten as much as a word out.

    It’s just something to consider. You’re doing good work, Gary, and I’d hate to see the message gets lost by poor delivery.

    Keep up the great work, folks, and stay strong!

    • Hey Sarah,

      Thanks a lot for the feedback, and I take your comments to heart. Like I said I was a little worn out so I think I wasn’t at my best and a little testy that day. I have to work with these groups, and they have made it pretty clear they have no problem me interviewing them or promoting their stuff, but do not hold up on their promises to cross promote or interview me. I just feel that seems to be the pattern with the main group they are very cliquish and do things that I don’t necessarily agree with.

      I’m actually good friends with Gary Taubes and he is one in the movement I look up to. When I refer to the “younger” ones in the movement with no background in health, I’m not lumping people like Robb Wolf or some of the people who have been around a while. It is this new breed that have come out of almost nowhere in the last 2-3 years, using the Tim Ferriss/Brendon Burchard model of just compile someone else’s info, call it your own and use network and affiliate marketing. For me I see a lot of things people do in my genre, because of my background that a lot of others don’t see.

      On the education side I agree, you do not have to have a degree or formal education to be an expert, but you do need time and experience and I feel the younger Paleo/Primal folks are completely skipping this step, because they see easy money. For someone like me who has been involved in health for decades, it just gets under my skin, as you can tell. And honestly a few of them have been pretty disrespectful to me at times. When you are twice their age and have a hell of a lot of experience it can piss you off. Having my background, which no one in the movement has, or in health period, I would expect them to be a little more gracious when I approach them for an interview. A great deal of them will not even respond back to me.

      With that being said I need to take the high ground, and I discussed this with a business partner of mine. The bottom line is I will not probably be to involved in that group I have discussed and will be blazing my own trail. Most importantly I will be doing it the right way, and doing it truly to help people.

      So I thank you very much for your comments and support. I will focus on the positive and stay out of the drama. But I cannot promise to not fire a shot across the bow from time to time, I have been labeled the Ted Nugent of health from a couple of people 🙂

      • It’s hard, isn’t it? You have all this life-changing knowledge and experience swimming around in your head, and all you want to do is get it to as many people as you can so you can change lives.

        It’s interesting that you’re friends with Gary Taubes. Outside looking in, it seems like there are SO many folks that couldn’t argue with his reasoning and facts so they set out to discredit him. “He’s not a doctor. He’s not a scientist. He’s just a journalist. How could HE have it right and all the doctors have it wrong?” It’s been my experience that people turn to insults and attempts to discredit when they can’t argue the facts. That’s never productive. In fact, it does a great job of putting us on the defensive.

        Given your life experiences, you have a unique perspective that can really help people. I’m glad that Jack brought you back on the show, and I can’t wait to cheer you on with the great stuff you have coming down the pipeline.

        Taking the high road really helps. I’m not saying that everything’ll be sunshine and daisies. I’m a realist and I know better. But staying positive keeps ears open, and in the end, that’s what we want, right? We want to get our message to as many folks as possible so we CAN make a difference.

        The best of luck to you, and keep up the awesome work!

        • On Gary’s behalf I also would add I bet if one of these folks were doing it right, that they actually did have the facts strait and were not regurgitating crap from others and twisting it into half truths, he would be one of the first to say well done.

        • Gary and I have discussed the bashing he took in the beginning, and he warned me they would come after me if I became big enough. The problem with Gary is they didn’t do their homework very well, as he was already well established long time scientific investigative writer. Not to mention he played college football, so he had more of a background for his book Good Calories Bad Calories than they truly understood.

          He is such a great guy to, when I was first starting he answered all my questions and has always been very gracious with his time.

          Thanks for the kind words, and I hope you will really like what I bring to the plate. I have a lot of big plans in the works to really make a huge difference in the area of health and wellness in this country.

  5. Gary, do you have a blog post somewhere explaining why lentils/legumes are bad? That one confuses me. I know the theory that grain has toxins so it doesn’t get eaten (which really, since humans propagate the crap out of everything they consume, I fail to see the evolutionary advantage from a plants perspective).

    But lentils? Is it the carbs or the fiber?

    Thanks Gary, it was a great interview.

    • Hey Jake,

      When it comes to legumes (beans) they have a lot of the same toxic protections as grains. Primarily they contain lectins, which are proteins that harm our intestinal lining, thus causing leaky gut just like grains. Remember beans are the part of the plant that you plant in the ground and grow another bean bearing plant, so they would have the same protections as a grain. They do not want to be digested, but passed through and deposited in rich fecal matter.

      Animals are better adapted at dealing with these protective toxins than humans. I have worked with several clients who cling to their beans, but they still have the same negative reactions as grains. Once we remove the beans from their diet these conditions disappear, this was also the case with myself. You can try soaking them for 24 hours and rinsing them 3 or 4 times during this time and see how you do. But for me and many others this still doesn’t work. For the amount of time and energy you have to put into eating a grain or bean by soaking, fermenting or sprouting, to me it just isn’t worth it.

      I hope this helps. I need to do a blog post on this subject it is on my ever growing list, I will try and get something done in the near future.

      • What kind of regularity of things like beans would you see being an actual problem? (Obviously this generally depends on the person)
        The wife and I so rarely eat beans/legumes it just makes me wonder.

        I’m of the belief that the body is quite adaptable (if healthy) and a little bit of everything tends to be better than never having anything.

        We might make chili once… every 6 months… or so for a fun friday. (We do some sort of tasty dinner every friday, usually its wings). We also sometimes eat like blackeye / purple hull peas in the summer, but definitely not once a week, nor usually even once a month. Sometimes the wife will makes pasta fagioli probably every 3 months or so as well.

        I’d say we are eating much more pasta (always gluten free) than anything else. We hardly ever eat bread (I might eat it 3 times a year). Generally we just eat lots of greens, some sort of meat and thats about it.

        • Hey Mike,

          Again that is why I’m on the Primal side of the house, I do not believe having beans or grains on occasion will ruin your health. But having them as primary staples in your diet will, and this is what most Americans do today. What makes them so dangerous is not the grain or bean in of itself, but the process and hybridization they have gone through.

          These are totally foreign foods to our bodies, in their altered modern form. Not to mention, many of them are genetically modified, which primarily makes them more herbicide and pesticide resistant. What does that mean? Many studies in Europe have shown the damage done to animals digestive and reproductive systems when fed GMO products. I’m talking they have all still births not one offspring survives!

          That is why growing your own food when possible is always the best way to go. But I’m also a realist and recommend many ways to make much better choices, while shopping at a store or Farmer’s Market.

          I would say your diet as described above is pretty much like mine…Primal! Love it, and you show that the best way to go is let common sense be your guide.

    • Interesting. I’ll have to do some more research. This stuff challenges my beliefs almost as much as a new religion or something would. Thanks for the response!

      • Hey Jake,

        Trust me it didn’t make sense to me either when I first started down the Primal Lifestyle road. But you will save yourself a lot of grief and discomfort by removing legumes. The best way to test it, is to remove all legumes for 30 days and then reintroduce and see how you react. I use this method with all my clients, it works like a charm to narrow down foods that are giving you an immune reaction.

  6. I just wanted to say that I started watching Tudor Monastery Farm after Jack mentioned it. It’s really interesting. One thing I got out of the episode I watched today was that the average farmer/villager in Tudor England got 80% of the caloric intake from Bread and Ale. I think they said they could consume 2 pounds of bread and 8 pints of ale every day in the summer. Not very Paleo!

    • Jesse, that is why I’m a Primal Guy, I don’t tell anyone they should never eat a certain food type ever again. That is just not realistic. Everyone is different and has different tolerances. A perfect example is the people of Northern Sweden who have been ingesting large amounts of dairy for over 10,000 years, very few suffer from lactose intolerance. In contrast the Aboriginal diet is purely the hunter gatherer variety and they have a high incidence of lactose intolerance.

      I have not not watched anything on the Tudor Monastery Farm, but my guess would be they are using heirloom grains combined with traditional fermentation techniques brewing their beer and making their breads. This type of grain quality and preparation is far different from what we are exposed to in the US.

      I have yet to have a person not respond positively by removing the modern grain from their diet. I have been wanting to experiment with traditionally prepared heirloom grain bread products to see what would happen to me, but no luck finding any in my area. I think it would be a great experiment for someone like me who is highly sensitive to grains, to see if there is a difference. I know I have problems with our processed dairy, but have no problems with certain raw organic dairy products.

      Again different strokes for different folks, and that is where I differ from the more strict part of the Paleo movement.

  7. OK Podcast.
    Gary has some great points and I look forward to reading his book.
    The whole “I’m not bashing anyone” when he keeps bashing, got tiring.

    FYI: Robb Wolf’s book came out less than 4 years ago not 10 Gary!
    Thanks for all you do Jack.

    • AJ, again sorry about the bashing, I was having a bad day and was frustrated. It happens. Probably was confusing Robb’s book with Loren’s, as they come from the same principles.

      I hope you see the differences in how I present the material and find it easier to follow, as that is the goal with what I do.

      Thanks for you support,

      Gary Collins

  8. If any one else like’s the xxxx farm series check out “tales from the green valley” its by the same folks that present the farm series with two additional presenters. Set in the year 1620, it’s broken down into twelve half hour programs so gives a much more realistic portrayal of a farming year.
    It’s the very first one of the farm series even though its not called xxxx farm.
    To pick up one of Gary’s points to Jessie hill, and I remember jack mentioned this in an earlier podcast, modern wheat/grains ( still can’t get used to the word corn in relation to sweet corn and not wheat but that’s a UK thing 🙂 !! ) are bred to have a much higher gluten content than the heirloom varieties. They were also a lot taller as the straw was a valuable product in of itself. Our fore-fathers might have been able to consume such large amounts of bread with out the gluten reaction because the bread contained a lot less gluten.
    Keep up the good work guys and gals, and thank you jack for being such an inspiration. I may disagree with you sometimes but hey that’s what makes life interesting, and its always good to re-examine why I believe what I believe !!

  9. I figured this podcast would be pretty good, it was actually really really good.

    I couldn’t agree more with Jack’s comments about being happy first. You have to want to be happy, and you have to find out how you can be happy in your own life. (Generally by removing the need for materialistic things). Maybe its just waking up one day and just saying… you know… things aren’t so bad. Forget the past, live in the now.

    I say all the time to people “Live like a dog.” Dogs always live in the moment, if something bad happened (unless its completely tramatic) they move on. The dog transgresses and gets a scolding, he learns his lesson and 10 seconds later he’s back to enjoying himself. Dogs in general always look to be content and engaged with the world around them.

  10. Gary,

    Have you seen the “Forks over Knives” documentary, its on Netflix Instant? I would love to hear your thoughts on it. Really enjoyed your book, I bought it right after your first interview but before your discount.


    • 610Alpah,

      Thanks for your support, and I’m glad you enjoyed the book! I worked very hard on it so it is nice to get some of the great feedback I have been getting.

      I did watch “Forks Over Knives” a couple of years ago, when it first came out. Basically a raw vegan movie, disguised as a health movie. Nothing wrong with that, but I’m not a supporter of eating a vegan type of diet long term for a number of reasons. The word vegan and vegetarian are usually confused today, but vegan’s eat no animal products, vegetarians will mix in animal products, but not usually eat animals, this varies as there several types of vegetarian categories. I never understood the vegetarian movement, because in the end they always eat animal products in some form, but it becomes a unhealthy diet because they end up consuming large amounts of starches, grains, and legumes in place of fat and proper amounts of complete protein primarily found in animal flesh.

      When it comes to vegans I think the’re just not really using common sense. All plants have defense mechanisms in the form of toxins to protect them, well from being eating by humans and animals. This doesn’t mean you can’t eat plants, but you should never make it your only energy source. In addition that is where boiling and cooking of vegetables came from to help break down the toxins and make them easier to digest. Have you ever been around a raw vegan? The fart non-stop from all the gas produced in their digestive tract, due to the toxins and difficulty of digesting large amounts of raw plants. Our digestive systems are very simple compared to other animals, because we have big brains and we need to feed them with energy dense foods found in animal flesh – fat and protein. Any animal that survives on plants, think cows for example, have far more complicated digestive systems in order to break down all the fiber, toxins and convert plant nutrients into usable energy. For us to survive purely on plants, tubers and legumes we have to consume several pounds of those types of foods a day, and even then we cannot process it into sustainable nutrients and energy for long term health or survival.

      I will leave you with this and what makes the most sense to me on the “hunter gatherer vs the vegan or so called vegetarian. Dr. Weston A. Price in the 1930’s traveled to numerous countries studying hundreds of isolated cultures. What he found, they had beautiful straight teeth with very few cavities, if any, and none of the diseases being found in civilizations eating the Western Type of diet at the time (think processed foods this was where they really started to gain popularity due to several wars in order to get food to troops without spoilage). The one fact he made clear he found no culture that didn’t eat animal products in some form. He found no Vegans…anywhere.

      Hope that answers your question,



  11. Gary,

    Thanks for responding! The meat research seemed to ignore quality of meat, ie. factory farm vs pasture raised only. I did have one other question with regards to grains, I know your stance and that soaking grains is still not that great in your view.

    Is there any difference in soaking them in boiling water over night for 10-12 hours vs just soaking them in room temp water? I am wondering if the heat would reduce some of the bad things in the grain.

    As you can imagine a lot of people have stored grains.


    • 610Alpha,

      In my next book I get into the nitty gritty of organics and all that good stuff. It is too much to put in one book and too much for people to jump into at one time.

      If you boil your grains for 10-12 hours you will have mush, so that will not work. The way it is described to get rid of as many of the toxins as possible is to soak them for 24 hours at room temp (70-72 degrees) using a teaspoon or two of an acid base like vinegar, lemon juice, and changing the water every 4-6 hours. You can see how tedious it is to make grains safe for eating. The problem is not only the toxins in the grain, but the fact they have been hybridized over so many times to have maximum gluten and a super high glycemic index.

      Trust me I have been down this road several times the only way to really do it is to find a heirloom unaltered genetic grain, and that is incredibly difficult in the US.


      • Gary,

        I look forward to your next book. I should clarify my soaking grains statement. I put a cup of grain into a container and then poured in the boiling water, they soaked in that water for 10-12 hours, the water wasn’t boiling that whole time.

        I agree the method you described is very tedious.

        I will have to dig in to your book again to see what I could possibly stock up on in bulk that still meets the Primal criteria.

        Thanks again,