I had washed my hands of this, but I think there may be some inaccurate assumptions and miscommunication at work here. I spent the last couple days listening to old episodes, which I usually do. (I’ve heard every one at least once, most of them 3+times) In one of them I heard Jack/you say that nobody should agree with you all of the time, and if you do, your not thinking for yourself. (Paraphrased). All I could think at that moment was, and if you don’t agree you better keep it to yourself.

Nowhere did I say a 243 was unethical, incapable of humanely killing a deer, or any such thing. I merely said that it is not what I would recommend for a young hunter, and it isn’t. I even pointed out that I did not have a problem with it, and even lighter cartridges, being used, with some caveats.

All of us remember our first deer. Adrenalin, buck fever, what ever you want to call it, it affects newer hunters, and subsides with experience. I have on multiple occasions seen a 243 fail after hitting or grazing a leg bone, the bullets would have continued on to what would have been a relatively clean kill, but after fragmenting, they stopped short, and the deer suffered. They were all harvested, most even within a few yards, but I feel a deer deserves better than to lay and suffer, and in the areas i hunt, usually after they go down, you can’t see that the deer is still alive until you are up on them. If that can be controlled by a hunter who knows their limits, and has the self-discipline to hold their shot, or pass all together, then great. I have never condemned anyone for using a 243. Young, inexperienced hunters are less likely to know their limits, or push it, and are therefore more likely to have their shot stray that few inches that changes things.

That is not even the bulk of it. I just do not see anything that puts the 243 over any of the other cartridges which most would consider to be in the category of “common deer cartridges” the difference in recoil between something like a 308, and the 243 is negligible. Sure it’s less, if everything else is the same, but you can get more of a reduction in felt recoil by installing a better recoil pad. I have never seen a 308, or 06, not penetrate at least deep into the lungs, and/or heart, after hitting a leg bone, and usually they still exit the far side. 2 comparable rifles, one in 243, another in 308 are going to be the same price, and the ammo for the 243 is either the same price, or more expensive.

Many hunters start with deer, and before long, move to other things, such as hogs. I have only had 1 experience with a 243 vs a hog, and it was so bad I will never try it again. A roughly 200 lb boar, which was technically domestic. It was live trapped as a piglet, and confined ever since. Long story short, it got out, we couldn’t catch it, so after a couple days, my friend, who owned it, decided to just shoot it, and grabbed his 243. When the pig showed up to eat the corn, about 80 yards away. He shot it in the neck, the pig jumped, shook its head, then continued eating. He shot a second time, this time for a heart/lung, the pig fell, kicked for a second, then got back up, then he shot it in the side of the head, then ran down and cut it’s throat. The head shot actually killed it, so cutting it’s throat really wasn’t necessary. The first shot mushroomed beautifully, and came to rest against the spine, with out as much as chipping it. The second shot lodged in the gristle plate without anything making it past the ribs. Had it not been for the head shot, the pig would have either lived, or if it did die, it would have been from infection.

It doesn’t make sense to me to recommend a rifle, which will need to be replaced, or a second rifle added to the safe, when the hunter decides to start also hunting hogs, or black bear, or they get the chance to travel to somewhere like south west Iowa for the rifle antlerless season. It’s were I was born and a 400lb doe isn’t that uncommon, but most of my hunting has been in north western Michigan, where the average adult deer is about 180, and south Carolina where 180 lbs is a monster, and 100lbs is normal, but we have a 3 month long rifle season, and we get to shoot a LOT of deer. I usually shoot about 10 a year, and stop when the freezers are full. It’s a family affair, with a total of 5 large freezers, when they are all full, we stop, which boils down to I have been skinning, gutting, and processing roughly 20 deer a year, for the last 15 years, and seeing the results of everything from 223rem, to 375h&h mag. As a side note, the cartridge I have seen that most reliably produces “dead right there” (drt) results, tracks straight regardless of bones hit, and still does the least meat and/or hide damage, hands down goes to the 375H&H.

The 243 is a great varmint round, but tough on the hides. A 308 with a fmj is just as good and easier on the hides. If you don’t care about the hides, it really don’t matter what you use.

My opinion isn’t based in any disdain or loathing for the 243, simply that there are rounds that are on at least equal footing in all categories one could judge a cartridge, and still better in some areas. And if someone were to walk up to me and ask my advice on a rifle for their kid to start hunting deer, I would recommend the 308 Winchester, if they were just a new hunter, I would recommend either a 308, 30-06, or 270 winchester depending on where and what type of hunting. In either situation, if they thought recoil would be an issue, I would recommend a pachmayer decelerator, or limbsaver recoil pad be installed, with their budget deciding the type of rifle. I wouldn’t recommend a magnum unless the rifle would also be used for elk, moose, brown bear, etc.

While many of us have several rifles, and a few favorites (sometimes for reasons that only make sense to us) but in the original call which led us here, the caller said that he had the money for the combo now, may not in the future, and that would lead me to believe that money is an issue, and therefore another gun down the line may not be possible. Also, since the caller was from Washington, they have the opportunity for black bear, hogs wouldn’t surprise me, mt. Lion maybe even. My uncle lives in northern California and he hunts or sees all of the above, so its not that big of a stretch for Washington to be similar. When the hunting bug bites, I wouldn’t want someone to be restricted by their gun, or lack thereof.

@trekker – (wrong reply level)

thank you for taking the time for a longer reply

I appreciate you sharing your experience and opinion on this subject

I think one of the problems with ‘comments’ is that they’re not (initially) a ‘conversation’.. so when read, one tends to respond to what was said.. rather than asking for clarification on WHY it was said, or seeking additional information that would clarify what the person was trying to communicate.

Again, thanks for taking the time to clarify WHY you made your initial comment.. I really do appreciate it. =)