Episode-1161- David Byte of – An App to Defend the 2nd Amendment — 24 Comments

  1. I haven’t seen the app.. but as a software architect.. 😉

    I would think you would want to have a couple of levels of info for a ranked site:

    Carry Is:
    Legally OK
    Legally Prohibited
    Implicitly OK
    Implicitly Prohibited
    Explicitly OK (posted or communicated by owner)
    Explicitly Prohibited (posted or communicated by owner)

    Not sure how your area database works, but obviously a nested hierarchy where you can mark the higher level with one of the above with the possibility of an ‘override’ at a lower hierarchical level.

    As another possible dataset.. maybe a ‘ranking’ for local authorities granting of concealed carry permits? Might be useful for people relocating to know that their going to lose their CCW permit if they move to County X.

    • I bought the app primarily to support the project, knowing it’s a work in progress. Interesting idea so far and I hope it makes the critical mass necessary to make a crowd-sourced data work.

      I second expanding the categories and/or adding additional informational labels because the nuances of larger corporations make this a complex landscape. Additionally, consider flags/symbols to mean “corporate” and “franchise” with multiple options, preferably in a cross-location context.

      Take Wal-Mart as an example. Wal-Marts are all centrally owned locations and the official corporate policy is that every store is required to adhere to state and/or local law. In PA, this means that Wal-Mart is both “pro” concealed carry and “pro” open carry. However that doesn’t mean that at the individual store level you aren’t going to be harassed by the shift manager or loss prevention or even have the cops called on you for MWAG if you’re an OCer or you reveal by accident around Philadelphia (for example). It would be nice to be able to mark a store as “Explicitly OK” by corporate policy add, possibly “Implicitly Not OK” by convention for a local store. Or perhaps have a way to express “explicitly OK by policy but this location you may receive harassment”. For even greater usefulness, give a mobile-friendly URL to a page that explains the rational (e.g. “Wal-Mart corporate policy (found below) explicitly permits carry however at this location it has been reported that the floor manager and/or loss prevention will harass open carriers. Wal-Mart policy is blah blah blah”.

      Costco, on the other hand, has an explicit policy against both OC and CC so it would be “Explicitly Prohibited” however Costco does not post a sign at the entrance telling you that and the “concern” over this appears to vary by location.

      Finally, many mid-sized chains are franchised and policy varies by location. Many people new to “the community” mistakenly believe – for random example – all McDonalds are carry friendly when that’s entirely driven by the franchise owner and not any corporate policy. It would be nice to be able to flag, again purely a random example, that McDonalds at X is a franchise and is unfriendly to carry.

      I know you guys probably have a lot on your plate, but you may want to consider either getting involved yourself in some of the gun forums or, perhaps, recruit a cadre of trusted friends, collaborators, etc. to engage on some of the well-known ones to help promote the app and flesh out the data. There are many troves of “gun friendly location” lore out there and I think many in the gun rights community would be more than happy to contribute their data. For example, here in PA the PA Firearm Owners Association forum ( has tremendous historical records about local and regional locations, odd ball “state facilities” that are restricted by state law when you wouldn’t expect it, whether or not a particular Wawa or Giant Eagle or Wal-Mart will harass you for Open Carry or result in a MAWG call, etc.

      Just some feedback, but I’m excited for this project!

  2. Insidious, great feedback. I’ll look into how we can integrate some of these with the roadmap.

  3. can’t wait till android AP ready. also look up “legal heat” it is a similar AP but not nearly as comprehensive

  4. I get my first handgun next week, and will get my tx chp as soon as I can after that… I want this app!!! The pay version. It’s like a four square for gun owners. I like the hierarchy idea too Insidious. As a otr driver I get out and will definitely use this app even before I get my chp.

  5. already does this type of listing. has forums on every state in regards to legal carry and friendly sites.

    We don’t have to start from scratch here folks.

    • Yes because not doing something better and with more innovation is the best course, right?

      I guess no one should ever do a survival themed podcast because I was first right?

  6. I would like to see stickers given to buisinesses that wilfully participate in updating their information through the app and website. I think the SafeToCarry app logo in about 4 in. x 4 in. would look great on a front door of a buisiness.

  7. I also had an idea to expand on my previous comment. Different designs could indicate different stances. A half blackend logo could be concealed carry only, or instead of the circle (or “O”) behind the gun it could be changed to a “C”. For a business that is prohibited by law but supports the 2nd amendment it could be a SafeToCarry app logo but with a dotted slash through the circle (or “O).

  8. I wrote out about a 5 or 6 paragraph response to the podcast (offering alternative constructive criticism) but I just deleted it. I don’t want to rain on anybody’s parade. And unless somebody would ask me for my opinion I’d share it in detail.

    Otherwise I’ll just leave it with the statement that I don’t use a smart phone, I’m not going to buy one, they’re absolute gimmicks, they waste people’s time, and make them extremely unprepared (its kaizen to the T for information, rather than somebody having to do homework and requiring them to become intimately familiar with their life and surroundings, they can flip on a phone and it will tell them yes or no).

    After “finding permaculture” and reading Bill Mollisons Designers manual, and starting to read Ben Falk’s new book (awesome by the way), I’m going a different route in life and I’d probably rather accept the fate that “harmonizing” with living forces seems like the right approach.

    As a fellow software developer myself I wish the best of luck with your project! =)

    • Well you believe that dude. LOL Seriously if you don’t want one then don’t have one. You sound like a guy saying you won’t drink a beer though because some people are alcoholics. That is fine right up until the non drinker says and so you should not drink a beer either. You know the annoying types that see you drink two beers and call it boozing where booze becomes a VERB?

      Frankly Mike people travel, I do it a lot, when I hit the ground in a city and state I have never been in before services like this are quite helpful.

      • @Jack
        Your points are well taken in. There is a lot and I mean a lot behind my opinion and like I said I started to write a huge response, but was like you know… this is likely going to just come off totally wrong and it would rather require a sit down discussion rather than a blog post. In fact I’m finding myself doing it right this moment…. (Now trimming it up) So I’ll do what I normally do and spend 30 minutes to 2 hours chatting my wifes head off about this, leading into broader other topics. hah. Just ask her about that one….

        I completely understand your travel statement. That is a purpose I can REALLY see for how this is extremely useful. Having to go through unfamiliar locations on business, or otherwise, one certainly has to frequent many unknown places.

        Phones and social media I’m seeing more and more and more are enshrining this attitude. ESPECIALLY in cities. Its almost an over-reaction and a misdirected reaction to the fact we literally don’t have community (in most cases) anymore.

        Don’t know anybody? Who cares, you’ve got a phone and can connect to anybody else and read their opinion (You have to judge the context of their thoughts, by a few lines of text they may write about something rather than days, months, years of knowing the person). There is obviously some positive communities that are extremely useful (this, and the forum is an example) where the context, and relationships can be established.

        Thanks for RE-mentioning the website. Plus Jacks statements regarding traveling it can certainly help. Heading to the parents house this weekend (they just moved up to the ozarks go figure!), I should plan out the route ahead of time, to include keeping in mind stopping at an unknown establishment which may or may not be gun friendly. There is definitely no resource for that, so thanks for that support. Legal gun law stuff… eh well there is and there isn’t. Perhaps a one stop shop is an answer. Like I said I wish you guys luck, obviously got a pretty good head on your shoulders, so I’ll keep my advice on how to run your business to yourself, and I can say I’m glad to see apps that relate to real life, rather than meaningless entertainment fluff (this does NOT fit that description).

        Mostly my critiques, are probably less on the app and more on society as a whole rapidly being changed by technology faster than our ability to sit down, and really consider the topics. The reason I won’t own a smart phone mostly has to do with my outright refusal to support those who wish to oppress me. (Computer based corporations). Apple, Google and Microsoft, whilst inventing and maintaining some really “cool” things, most nearly everything they’ve done has robbed a lot of people of their fundamental human rights, the government has written laws to enshrine and enforce this, and now people are perhaps less independent and knowledgeable as a result.

        Jack talks about finding one’s place to rebel, this is my sphere. If one doesn’t like how a company treats their customers? Don’t buy from them! I can work with that!

      • @Jack one more time
        Rereading my post I realize my deleted one was probably less crass than my shortened version.
        Can you ever forgive me?


        • Nothing to forgive, “there ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy, there’s just you and me and we just disagree”.

        • New Mike,

          Don’t be too hard on yourself. I have devices out the wazoo and your post gave me food for thought.
          “Kaizen to a T”. Well-said. How many shortcuts do we all get tricked into using in modern life just to get by? Esp. as the press of efficiency and relentless corporatization kick me?

          I’ll bet plenty of people have been caught with their pants down; even if you choose to use aids in life, it’s worth knowing their limitations.

          E.g. I had a real “aha” moment a few yrs ago when I was using an iPhone navigation program and drove out into the boonies… Fine until the basemaps couldn’t update. I’m fine with map and compass, but guess what, didn’t bring them.


          PS. FWIW, I love the idea of this app. I could definitely use it.

    • That’s precisely the reason that we provide the website search. We realize that there is still a significant portion of the population who doesn’t want to use a smart phone. The website search allows for a broader view and level of preparation that is not available through the just in time interface of the phone.

      Thanks for the feedback!

  9. BabyHarley 82nd, We would love to have the revenue stream to provide stickers for free, however as a small no-debt business most of our revenue is spent on the tools to enable it (infrastructure and such). For the time being, we have a cafepress store embedded in our site with a section for businesses where we have 1 door sticker currently available.

    On the varying logo idea, we have a few ideas we are chewing on in regards to this, some that may be easier to visually identify. The feedback is great as it helps us hone in on some of those and validate that it is a good idea.

    • I think BabyHarley 82nd has an awesome idea in many ways.

      In addition to communicating effectively, this could be a very subtle “support movement” in displaying stickers. Rather than a more polarizing political sign. ‘Cause, frankly, most businesses will not want to overtly advocate any politics they don’t need to. Not cowardice, just practicality (e.g. like not putting 30+ bumper stickers on your car).

      Especially if they were fairly low-key, it could be a nice way for businesses to say “*of course* we support the right to self-defense (or 2A)”. And there’s a very practical argument: to avoid confusion, and to prevent people needlessly exposing their weapons to theft while “secured” out in the car.

      Best of luck to you in your work!

  10. I believe that 55 million number is far below the true numbers…there are tons of people that have never bought a gun and own tons of them that were passed down from parents and grandparents and none of those guns were registered back in the 40’s-60’s when they were bought and most people back then bought em used.
    It’s funny I remember back the late 80’s I saw a number of 3 billion guns in the USA privately own making us the largest armed populace in history…I wonder how that number dropped by so much when since that time people have been buying more guns that ever before….once again they are using number of registered guns…just my opinion.

    Thanks for all you do!

  11. I can’t seem to leave a review for the app. I tried it on my phone and on my Mac. I wright the review but the sent button will not light up for me to send it.

  12. Sounds like a great and useful app. I’m just glad that in Oklahoma a “No guns” sign means NOTHING. Oklahoma law takes precedence.

    When I enter a no gun zone(not talking city or federal buildings) I go in and do my business. When leaving, I ask why no guns, and then tell them their sign holds no merit. So far…everyone has told me it’s for the open carry people, and they don’t want anyone uncomfortable, but they don’t care about concealed carry.

    That’s fine I guess, but here in Oklahoma too many people think if they have a sign, then they will have you arrested, as a deterrent. Not true at all. I also have only seen half a dozen or so signs…

    • Not to nit-pick here @sukivel, however one has to be careful when making statements like “…in _____ a “No guns” sign means NOTHING.” This can be true from a “gun signs have force of law” in that no state law exists that makes violating the sign a *firearms* crime. However in most states, a “no guns” sign is enforceable on private property through trespassing laws. The sign is considered sufficient notice of undesired activity on private property and the property owner can press charges under local trespassing statutes. AFAIK this is very rare, but you don’t want people to wrongly pick a fight they will lose either.

  13. I tried the app, but 2AFriendly already has a ton of business listed, like it pulls from facebook check-ins or foursquare or something. Many locations are already rated.

    It’s worth a look.