Episode-1043- A Look into the Reality of Violence

First today I take some time to do a follow up on yesterdays show/video where I discussed how the “lock down” plan most of our schools have does not “keep our children safe” as we have been led to believe.  Many people called it Monday morning quarterbacking (such people don’t know the real meaning of the term) and some brought up some very valid “what if” questions.

So today I will cover more on the subject.  I also want to be clear I was not advocating “the plan” should be evacuate and only evacuate, just that evacuate needs to be part of the plan.  Right now what most schools have seems to be a two stage plan, “Plan A” hide and wait for help, with no real Plan B, hence Plan B becomes by default, if Plan A fails everyone gets killed.

I also give some thought and ideas to improve the odds of survival in these situations, things that can start being done now, at little to no cost.  Lastly we do have some good news out of the CT shootings, one little boy at least who was in one of the rooms the shooter entered is alive and at least physically unharmed.  Why?  Simply put because he ran away.

Rory On Location in Baghdad

Rory On Location in Baghdad

Next we have Rory Miller as a guest to discuss a unfortunately applicable topic today, the reality of violence.  Rory Miller has been a Corrections Officer, a Sergeant, a Tactical Team member and a Tactical Team Leader.

Rory has taught corrections and enforcement personnel skills from first aid to physical defense to crisis communication and mental health.

His philosophy can be summed up this way…

“It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die.  The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed.”

Resources for today’s show…

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37 Responses to Episode-1043- A Look into the Reality of Violence

  1. Do you think a professional trainer should figure out and train teachers to preform protection and assault scenarios for their individual school? Cost? Time? Effectiveness?

  2. Not trying to be a smartass, but I did hear about two wounded (but alive) folks from the Sandy Hook tragedy. The Indianapolis news affiliate on which I heard it glanced over it, but you’re right, Jack, I don’t think it was supposed to turn out that way (from the shooter’s POV.)

  3. Mental drugs is the common denominator for all the mass shootings is a good understanding of what is going on. I applaud you, Jack, for pointing that out. The pharmaceutical certainly don’t want anyone to connect that dots. I am sure.

    The labeling of those medication should put on a skull and bone.

    • Randy from People's Republic of MA

      Just found this and never considered it before, but this is pretty damned compelling

      http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

      • Holy crap.

        • Frank in Wisconsin

          Interesting; however:
          Is it just “crazy depressed mentally ill” people shooting? Or are the drugs the common denominator?. After all
          “Crazy depressesed mentally ill”people tend to be prescribed antidepressants.(?)

    • Is it that the med’s are reason it or is because those that would do this are the ones bad enough to be medicated?

      • I agree with Rob. Implying the mess are doing it is putting the cart before the horse. What’s going on here is that the small select pool of people who are unstable enough to do this are being medicated because of their instability. It is the mental condition, not the meds, that is the causal factor here.

  4. One very, very brave little girl, only survivor in her classroom played dead.

    I also heard a man in the neighborhood who ignored the shoots, thinking it was a hunter, finding 6 children at the end of his driveway. We have no where to go, our teacher has been shot and is dead.

  5. Anyone else notice the gunman who was stopped by an off duty cop from going into a crowded theater yesterday after he shot one person in the parking lot didn’t make the national news? They wouldn’t want to imply that responsible gun ownership can prevent tragedy.

  6. Dr Suzanna Hupp standing up to congress my hat is off to her.And she is still active today.

  7. this was a very informative show. hard to hear at times, but still good. I was very pleased that he talked about awareness body language and intuition. All of those things have helped me get through some hard situations.

    I have been jumped before. Dark alone on the street no place to run. Lucky? for me I knew the guy. I was able to talk my way out. Course I would not have been there in the first place had I listened to my intuitive side. When it first happened I froze. My body would not move. I kept telling my self to hit to scream to run to throw. Yet nothing. I tried to scream and nothing would come out. I tried it all and nothing. That was the worst feeling totally unexplainable the amount of fear. I felt like I had lost all control over my body. I am always afraid that should something happen I would react the same way. I think that scares me more than the thought of something really happening.

    It is different when you want to protect someone. Hubby and myself were in a bad situation and I moved and reacted very quickly. My brain and body were functioning so fast. I was focused on keeping hubby safe. Same thing with the kids. Don’t know why it is different when I was alone. Very interesting.

    I would love to learn more. I am worried about where to find training or how, that would fit me. I am not young any more nor do I move like I use to. To much beating up my body and to many injuries. Being a 5′ 1/2″ woman (don’t forget that 1/2″) I think its important to be able to learn what can be done no matter your stature or physical abilities or mobility. Suggestions?

    • Being a 5′ 10 ” tall man, I consider myself average height. On top of that I weigh about 150 lbs. I am not an imposing person at all. That out of the way, I found Wing Chun kung fu to be a very effective martial art. As the story goes this style of kung fu was developed for a woman to deal with her husband to be. She was not interested in marrying him. She was taught how to effectively deal with this man that was much larger than her. He didn’t want anything to do with her after she embarrassed him. Bruce Lee originally practiced this art. I would suggest this as an entry level martial art. That is how it was taught to me. You would also want to make sure that whatever school you go to also teaches you how to deal with being taken to the ground. Good luck!

  8. Others might have suggestions for you also, but I found “Self Defense” class a good start. I think a lot of the police stations offer classes like that. You might want to check them out.

    The part I like about the self defense class is the fact that they actually bring in some big guy with body armor (big thick padding) and allow the students to practice on him. For two minutes, the guy would attack the self defense students one by one by coming after him/her.

    At the beginning of the class before any instruction, the students became frozen or got knocked down, but toward the end of the self defense class, every student just fight and or ran away. The simulated attacker gave a good evaluation of the class and said he would not want to trifle with those who received the training.

    • I have been that “bad guy” in the black padded suit. I have seen people take incredible journeys in learning about themselves while I apply various levels of stress by “attacking” them.

      Anyone who is serious about survival mindset and self defense should seek out the best force on force training you can afford, one that includes a man in the padded suit. You will come to both love and hate that man in the padded suit… :)

      • It was incredibly informative to defend against the guy with the padded suit. Two minutes against the person seem to most of us like twenty minutes.

        It was really informative.

  9. I haven’t had a chance to listen to this podcast yet, but hope this article will add some good information and insight to the conversation here – http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/2058168-Lt-Col-Dave-Grossman-to-cops-The-enemy-is-denial/

  10. I pick out targets all the time, I case every building I enter. Not because I have any intention of harming anyone but where and what to do in the event someone tries to harm me. (Plus i like watching people while I’m waiting for whatever). When I lived in the city you had to be aware of where everyone was all the time because if you weren’t someone would try to punk you or rob you. Being aware and remaining calm when someone is “monkeying” in your face is half the battle. That and being able to ready your weapon without it being seen.I can’t always carry a gun but I do always carry a knife. Your average “…gangster…” is to busy “… talkin shit…” to closely watch your every move.

  11. Great episode!

    The world is full of good people that have *no idea* what evil looks like and what a violent encounter really entails. Many of these people are in our own (TSP) community. They are looking for a socially acceptable less than lethal means to make the bad man go away. The fatal flaw in these people’s thinking is that they assume what would deter them will also deter a violent person. “I’ll whack them with my cain/umbrella/keys/purse and they will surely go elsewhere…” “I’ll hit them with a paintball…” “The sound of a shotgun racking in a shell…” I fear for these people’s safety. I hope this episode helps them begin to understand the overwhelming odds they face and spurs them to action.

    I hope to hear from Rory on the TSP in the future.

  12. What everyone is missing is that antidepressant medications CAUSE psychosis – a side effect of taking them!!! Although I’m not sure how common this aide effect is – obviously everyone taking them does not become delusional but some surly do- – maybe be a lot better to have a more depressed population???

    • I have several acquaintances that used to take antidepressants. They told me the drug actually causes them to do things they would normally not even imagined doing. One of the acquaintances got caught and were charged (so she has a criminal record). Normally, she is the nicest person around.

      She said after she got off the drug, she has been clean and would NEVER consider doing such things.

      There’s herbal remedy out there for fighting depression.

  13. Real good interview and thanks for the clarifications Jack that you made at the beginning of this episode. I understand your point of view better now and you make some valid points.

    When I teach community self defense classes, we alway encourage people to get their families and themselves out of the area being attacked immediately. It’s gonna be hard for teachers/staff to run and encourage their students to run because there is that mother hen dynamic that men and women in that profession have. In most cases, they won’t run until all of their students are gone as well. But, this is something that needs discussed, practiced and trained.

    I am glad that others have suggested self-defense classes, rather than just basic martial arts classes, because true self defense classes bring a reality dynamic. Especially if an attacker in a padded suit is involved. I have been that attacker and it’s a very interesting point of view.

    Rory does make a really good point about putting yourself in the predator’s shoes. You would be amazed the outlook should you choose to try this. I attended an Active Shooter Response for Law Enforcement instructor class several years ago and we did a multitude of force-on-force scenarios in which each participant had to assume one of three roles; responding officer, helpless victim, and the shooter. It was really hard for most of the participants to play the role of the helpless victim and the attacker. But the perspectives that you abtain are amazing. For instance, when I was supposed to be the helpless victim, I found myself looking at different items and evaluating them for their effectiveness as a possible improvised weapons. I also quickly determined escape routes.

    Once again, great podcast today!

    • JD,

      When you were teaching the class, did you have to do something to make sure they learned before you let them graduated?

      I recalled our instructor actually recruited a group of football players. The last day of class, we were all busy doing evaluation sheet when that group of football players attacked us from behind. The one who can fight off the attacker, graduated. Otherwise, you get to stay behind for more sessions.

      • It really depends on the environment and the participants. Some places won’t allow too much of the hands-on, especially against a padded attacker. If we are hired by an employer to teach a class, usually we are not allowed to use the padded suit. Many are worried about worker’s comp and other liabilities. When doing more of the community classes at a local gym, we have padded attacker scenarios available on a voluntary basis.

        For the groups where we can’t use a padded attacker, many times we will grab the participants, with their permission, during some scenarios to help them train through the “freeze” and go to the “flight/fight.” We use bear hugs, chokes and arm grab defenses for these scenarios.

  14. karasukanzaemon

    You are at it every day. Thanks, Jack!

  15. I wish people would wait to do this type show. It’s everywhere . I wish more would say ‘ my sympathy to those hurting, I will talk about it in a week or so when it is less raw and more is known. Jmo.

  16. Shirley Temple

    I just wanted to say, I was only able to listen to about half of this show before getting sidetracked, but this guest has been one of my favorite so far and I can’t wait to listen to the rest of it. I hope you have him back!

  17. Call me stupid but I couldn’t understand the guest’s ideas. I understood the words but could assign no meaning to them. Maybe I’ll try to listen again because obviously there is valuable information there. Its above my pay grade I guess.

    • I would highly recommend his books, particularly Facing Violence if you want to get all the concepts in one book. It is a lot to take in for one podcast – the different categories of violence, what happens to your brain & body, how to train, legal, etc.

      • I had the same problem. His delivery was halting and his interrogative questioning of Jack to frame a his point drove me crazy. I know there is a bunch of good information and I can tell that he has an understanding of his subject, but a good speaker he is not. I think Jack is an excellent interviewer and did a phenomenal job. I’m sure the books are nothing like his speaking style.

  18. I love the quote “It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die.”
    I would just add (even thought it should be implied), “But always be prepared to fight!”

  19. Our district safety officer came to talk to us about this very thing at the beginning of the school year. He emphasized repeatedly to go ahead and go off plan to do whatever it takes, whether it be putting the kids out the window or whatever. Guess I am lucky to work in a district that tells teachers repeatedly to think outside the box and be mentally preparing for the what-ifs.

  20. Plan A- don’t send your kid to school.

  21. I encourage you all to take a look at Mr. Miller’s books, including e-books. My first intro to him was reading “Meditations on Violence”. Every young man should have read this a few times before hitting his first bar, or entering the military. Every middle-aged man should still read this book to understand himself and the world he actually lives in.

    If you didn’t get the information, try googling “rory miller” and “monkey dance” for a little baseline data you can read at leisure. He’s written articles for different online publications. Then go back and listen to this podcast again. I’m familiar with Mr. Miller’s work and I still listened twice. I wouldn’t want to miss anything, after all.

    He’s that good. I hope he’s back on the show again in the year ahead. We’ve only scratched the surface of what he’s able to contribute.