The How, The What and The Why of My Support of the SBSS Relaunch
Last night I said I would support the relaunch of SilverBulletSilverShield.com and that I would explain the how, the what and the why here. Quite a few people that sent me hate mail have already apologized for it and have a new perspective now. Some will cling to their leader Chris for all eternity in spite of the facts. Those people are not important to me, those with an open mind are.
I want this community to know why I am doing this, how I am doing it and I want all to know flatly it isn’t about money, I am not taking a thin dime. I am though doing what I can to right a wrong. Details below…
Oh snap!
The responses to this video on the Chris Duane blog site and on you tube are hilarious. It’s like a train wreck; I can’t help but gawk!
Jack has already been accused of photoshopping the original concept drawings that he showed in the video…
On a sad note, Chris’ take on this (and that of his loyal followers) are why Libertarians can’t have nice things.
The coward man child is censoring any comment regarding this or any mention of the name Johan Kirsten?
I wasn’t taking sides beyond saying that I take Jack at his word, but after seeing this I can’t imagine Rob ever having anything to do with him again. Chris is projecting after HE screwed over HIS partner then tried to do the same to Rob.
Funny huh? I don’t bash him for deleting comments though, I am. There comes a time when you have wasted too much time with people who won’t listen to reason. Not why he is doing it but I can’t be the pot calling out the kettle on that you know. I have just put WAY DAMN TOO MUCH TIME into this at this point and have no patience for the Duane Ditto Heads any longer. I provided the facts after that they are their own problem but if they want to defend their fearful leader they can do so with their own resources not mine.
Speaking of a Duane Ditto Head. I read someones post on his site, where he was selling coins and put forth a despicable lie that the coins coming from Mullikan Mint were fake-silver covered tungsten, and encouraged others to share is this slander (libel?). If Chris still reads the posts on his site, he better take this idiot in hand cause that sure wont set well with certain people of power. WTH was this idiot thinking, lying on Ebay like that? Disclaimer: I did not go to Ebay and verify this so it could have been a simple case of posturing and big mouth bluster.
When I was posting that I wasn’t taking sides for lack of info, he left them up. The first mention of Johan Kirsten, and :poof: the posts are gone. Struck a nerve with that one. This wreaks of self loathing projection (IE. Chris was projecting his betrayal of his partner on Rob).
You know when your last name starts with a D you really shouldn’t act like a douche bag. Chris D becomes Chris D-bag or Chris Douchebag so easily. LOL. In is his fantasy world he thinks he and his ditto heads are going to buy Ohio with their silver and create a new society. I refer to it now as D-bag-hio.
Well I guess I’ll have to pack my family up and move to Texas if he buys Ohio. lol. BTW I think Chris D Head is more in order at this point.
I have always known you are an honorable man.
(Discovered TSP about episode 275)
Personally I strive to live in a world without soap operas.
But sometimes one has to step up to right a wrong.
Thank you for doing so.
Jack – Thanks for doing the right thing. Standing up for Johann speaks volumes to your integrity. I’ve been a listener from WAY back in the day and you’ve remained true blue throughout. I respect you MUCHO for defending your honor in this way.
Jack, you rock! Keep up the good work.
If anyone here is a member of deviantArt.com, I strongly advise you to launch a thank you post over at the dA web site, thanking Jack for sticking up for artists and their right to credit and compensation for their output.
Artists already have a hard enough time getting other people to recognize the validity of these things called “copyright” and “intellectual property rights.” A lot of people don’t even realize that the US Constitution protects intellectual property rights in Article 1 of that beloved document. Yes. It’s addressed in the VERY FIRST article of the Constitution. Property rights and the clarity of ownership were of huge importance to the Founding Fathers. That’s why it was the first thing they addressed, and also why we have that saying “Possession is nine-tenths of the Law.” The inability to determine who owns what is the beginning of chaos, and an avenue toward unstoppable theft-by-thuggery.
That artist, Johan Kirsten, deserves credit for his work.
Thank you, Jack. I know you prefer to stay out of other people’s messes, but your getting involved on this one matter is a huge victory for copyright integrity and for the important notion that an artist’s output deserves compensation.
Oh and, in case anyone here didn’t know dA is the Number One largest online community for graphic artists in the world.
And that Madam was the intent! To stand up for the rights of a man who was left hanging. Rob did make it right but I personally felt Johan asked for too little and was screwed for too long. If I can help someone and they are worthy then I feel a duty to do so.
I fear Chris is suffering from “Poisoned Mind Syndrome” (PMS) at the moment. I hope he rediscovers his center as life was not to be lived in rage and suspicion. I doubt we will see Rob and Chris mend bridges, but one can hope.
Jack, I like what you did. You took a selfless approach to help someone who had literally been forgotten in the drama. That is a sign of a true and honorable gentleman. Well done!
No it is much more like unfaithful spouse syndrome. After betraying their spouse they project their lack of loyalty on current or future relationships. If caught in the lie, they become reactionary and volatile. I wouldn’t be shocked if this whole thing stemmed from Chris guilt.
Anyway, rock on, long live SBSS and may TSP Mint prosper. I’ll be putting in an order at 22:01 PDT and I have reserves earmarked for future releases.
This whole affair reminds me that the “rational market hypothesis” is just a lie.
Good job Jack. You are a model for the rest of us in business and in life.
Would I be making eyes roll if I asked what the average time it took from order to delivery at TSPMINT? I ordered 40 rounds and staying nervous. Would like to order the Sentinel but not going to until I get first batch. HEY JACK!! Thanks for all man!!!
Email me your order number and the date you ordered.
Where can we find the “affiliate link” to use to ensure we help contribute in this way?
It will be put out soon.
Thank you. As soon as I posted that last night, I received your e-mail with the link included and I used that to make my order last night. I appreciate it.
Frankly, I don’t think you should get involved. I will always support you & TSP, but I don’t care about these stupid cat fights. It makes our entire movement look f*cking childish. So whatever.
Have you made a point? Yes. Is it the correct point? Yes. I mean I can’t fault you from an insider point of view. But from an outsider point of view, we are a frickin’ basket case of disorganization and distrust. I guess ultimately if you guys are going to distance yourself from Chris, you need to gas him. And that’s gas’ing a lot of libertarians. It just gets right back to why we never get anywhere as a movement. And it’s frickin’ sad. If you are going to gas him, and take the lead, then gas him and get it over with, absorb the loss. His followers will go over to anarchist.
…and when they do go to anarchist, that’s fewer libertarians. And that’s a loss. So nobody should be beating their chest over this “win”. It is a sad day when “leaders” of our libertarian movement can’t put the size of their d*cks aside and work together to put out something as simple as some frickin’ silver. I’m really disappointed in all of you frankly. Yeah I could say especially Chris, and that’d probably be true, but honestly I’m tired of the failure & cat fighting of all of our libertarian leaders.
You really need to get over yourself Chip, seriously. This isn’t about macho crap, this is simply making something that was wrong as right as I can. Chris is a fing liar, you say you like him? You like liars?
I just can’t help myself. I had to order at least one. I know the price is high but the coins is just too amazing and the story that follows is a great one. Thanks Jack!
Honestly, after all this crap, I don’t know what to think – and when I have any doubt as an investor, I buy raw, and buying raw means buying Constitutional Silver aka 90% UST coins. So, because of this ruckus, you, Chris, and AOCS have lost my business, because I don’t believe in any of the promised premiums any of you are spewing. I just bought 90% “junk”. I know what I’m getting, and I knew when/if TSHTF the dude on the other side knows what he’s getting, and I’m not paying a premium because of some bullshit catfight from some prima donna personalities, no matter who is “right”. In other words: f*ck all ya’ll, I gots me some silver! 🙂
If this isn’t a kick to all of you in the free market nuts, I don’t know what is. We are *NOT* your inanimate unthinking captive audience to be fought over like the booty of a pirate chest – you yourself taught us to think for ourselves – and part of that is thinking when no matter how beautiful your coins may be, your premiums & BS of doing business in between yourselves as dealers is expensive, divisive, and likely not worth the hassle. I urge you to not diverge away from serving the audience with your true value, information, in pursuit of a commodity goal – the goal of pushing metals.
I am 100% with you. This is why I’ve stated the following elsewhere: “What I’ve learned from the whole drama is that profits and personalities are at large placed above what is beneficial to the silver community as a whole. This is unacceptable and truly sickens me.”
This is why I’ve been buying Constitutional silver like crazy from my local coin dealer. I mean, who can say no to Constitutional silver at $18.40 per troy ounce (with spot close to $24), a good chat and a free mug of coffee? 🙂
Do I not always say, buy what you want? Seriously you are both pretty insulting if you think I am pushing anything.
@metaforge –
IMO despite what people like to think about themselves.. any community/group is going to have a small number of ‘leaders’ (independent thinkers) and a large number of ‘followers’ (herd thinkers).
If the community/group is considered ‘fringe’.. the herd member thinks he’s an independent thinker, when in fact he’s just joined a different herd (think teenage ‘rebellion’).
So, IMO 80% of the ‘silver bug’ and ‘prepper’ groups ARE unthinking (or at least not thinking very clearly.. or hard). And unscrupulous, or at least selfishly-motivated people will show up to ‘tap’ that market (but so will ‘good’ people).
In other words.. we’re out of the pioneer phase, where only the truly independent & hard core are doing this stuff.. here comes the herd.
As for the actual ‘stuff’ being offered.. its just a product, like a TSP logo mug. You either want the special, one time only, with exclusive velvet lined blah blah blah.. or you don’t. If you don’t, you don’t buy it.
But of course the people that are in the business of making & selling coins (Rob) are going to sell it.. and sell it hard. That’s their business.
The pitch might be low ball (Jack’s – ‘I’ve got a cool new design, at $2 over spot.. and if you buy before Sunday, I’ll throw in a copper’) to schleppy (Chris – ‘My coins are limited edition and you can double your money selling them on eBay.. or wait until the collapse and buy an entire state!’).
Sorry so long.. I guess I’m trying to say.. if you don’t give a shit about something (permaculture complainers) or don’t care for drama (CD).. just tune it the ‘f’ out and go do something you do care about.
This isn’t supposed to ‘be’ your life.. this is just supposed to help you have a better one.
(again.. a big fat IMO)
Jack, I’ve made my support for you pretty clear. I am just not in the market for SBSS medallions and all the drama and BS that comes with it. However, you’re aware of the fact that I wanted to order one of those limited edition Sentinel Ants, but couldn’t because the mint didn’t leave room for international orders even though I have a U.S. forwarding address as mentioned and offered to pay via PayPal or credit card.
In addition, you’ve made it abundantly clear that your “…personal stash isn’t for sale, they are for give aways to special people over time only”. This is after I asked you whether you will consider to sell one of the limited edition ones to me out of your personal stash. I understood and respected your point of view, but since I am not one of the special people and don’t have the opportunity to show my support through physical purchases of any medallions minted by the Mulligan Mint, can you blame me for falling back on Constitutional silver and the wholesomeness it brings? I think not. In fact, I think you will be the last person to protest. In addition, of course you’re pushing something: Honor, truth and justice. You’re clearly not in it for the profits. Am I wrong? I think not.
With this being said, you might want to check the last comments Chris left at Don’t Tread On Me, especially the part that reads: “Doing sketches of my Silver Bullet Silver Shield copyrighted material does not give ownership of the copyright. “
OK.
‘..you’re not in it for the profits.’
Well, yes.. he is. A business, just like in nature, has three states.. growing, maintaining, declining (profitable, breaking even, losing money).
For there to be any ‘surplus’ to return.. it has to be growing (profitable). If its not creating a surplus, WTF should it exist? (that’s not Walking To Freedom)
What I think people ‘mean’ by this is.. ‘Is this person doing the ONLY for money?’ Which, because I’m feeling cranky like Metaforge.. I’d respond to by saying.. IT DOESN’T MATTER.
If you’re involved in a free market exchange with someone.. it doesn’t matter if the seller is a money grubbing SOB or Mother Theresa.. the questions are the same:
Does this person have what I want?
At a price I am willing to pay?
– and if its a ‘delayed’ transaction..
Will they deliver? When?
Not saying you can’t say..
I HATE that guy, I’m not buying shit from him!
-or-
I don’t want to support who/what that person/company is/believes in.
And kibosh the whole process..
Just sayin’.. the ‘anyone selling anything is a sellout/conman/thief until proven otherwise’ thing has gotten mighty tiring. Be an adult. If you don’t want the shit.. don’t buy it.
You are both right and wrong here man.
This move isn’t for profit, it will actually cost me money. For every SBSS round someone buys it builds a competitive brand and takes funding that could have gone to TSPMint out of my pocket. The profit all goes to the artist, whom I don’t know and likely will never meet. This move is totally not for profit.
TSPMint is for profit, for all the work that I have to put in if it didn’t make a profit I couldn’t justify doing it. Though it isn’t really about profit, it is because from almost day one people have asked me for silver that is connected to this community. The truth is I turn down affiliate deals, etc. every day. I am only really doing this because people want it.
TSP MSB is about a profit, I feel the value is there but if it wasn’t profitable I would not have the life I do and TSP would not be what is. The MSB is my real business. If TSP Mint ever goes away as long as every single customer gets their silver I will be fine with that, I really am only doing it for the purpose of providing a very cool silver option to the people that love TSP. And in that way it does return surplus to the brand and does support the MSB and back end it contributes to profit.
The key is, I just do what I think is right and in my mind this is where you are completely right. Because I honestly believe and I mean right hand to God believe that if you do right it always comes back. This makes what many consider tough decisions easy for me. I do believe in some way the gift I have given Johan will be profitable. It might be in money, it might be in some other form or Karma. I don’t do good to get good but I understand how that system works and I live by it.
Frankly I think it is living in a true HUMAN WAY. I also feel the less you need money (be it because you have it or don’t need it) the more human you can be and the more this system works.
Beautifully stated.
=)
Always need to be more specific..
I’m responding more to the ‘socialist’ crowd that starts crying foul anytime someone who is DOING GOOD FOR FREE also starts selling something.
I know the whole SBSS thing isn’t driven by the profit motive.
And I have been thinking a lot about how people like yourself, the Urban Farming Guys, Paul Wheaton and others.. worked to get yourself independent of a paycheck.. and then use your ‘retirement’ to ‘do good’ in a way that someone who MUST pay the bills.. simply can’t.
Its motivated me to really kick my own ‘early retirement’ into high gear.
Less dependence = more free time = more good.
🙂
Jack,
I appreciate your video and your tone. You seem like a likeable guy and will tune into your broadcast. I have been a subscriber to Chris Duane’s Silver Bullet Silver Shield publication for over a year. I think you try to simplify the issues between Rob and Chris. Since Rob introduced himself on Dont-Tread-On-Me.Com several months ago, I have purchased every coin he manufactured for Chris. I also bought into the Free Lakota Bank concept and purchased Crazy Horse Medallions from the former AOCS Mint to be deposited at the bank. In regards to the SBSS medallions, deliveries were always delayed, and quality surprisingly just never improved. Even with all of the new equipment purchased by Rob. I have attempted many times to communicate the quality concerns (scratched coins, sharp burs, off center stamps, etc) to Silver Will and any other rep at the mint with practically no email responses, unless Chris intervened. The issues were totally disregarded. So as a customer of the mint, i was prepared to throw in the towel myself and not order again prior to Chris severing the relationship. As a customer, we were continuously lied to about delivery dates and improved quality, which never came about. As the #1 affiliate, promoter, and concept designer of the SBSS coins, I believe know Chris was extra patient with Rob as he knew of the capital investments made by Rob to improve production capacity. He knew it would be wrong to walk away that early. After months of receiving countless negative comments and emails from his customer base, one can see how Chris had no choice but to do business with another mint, if any. Rob had months to meet his obligations but continued to string Chris and his customers along with unachievable deliver dates and quality control.
Now in regards to the Free Lakota Bank. Why is it that Rob is linked to this Bank and that there are no management names listed on their website? Why is it that the bank’s deposits are stored in Dallas at the Mulligan Mint? Why is it that the Lakota Nation says they have no affiliation to this bank? Why does the Lakota Bank rep Eddie actually work at the Mulligan Mint in Dallas, when he claims to actually work on the reservation? This leads me to believe that it’s some sort of SCAM.
How is it that Rob was able to acquire this mansion on an airstrip in Texas when the mint is in its infancy stage with minimal success? Why is he flying back and forth to Singapore? Is he having SBSS coins minted there to be sold on Ebay for a premium? That’s my own guess but who knows? Seems like a lucrative scam idea.
Although Rob may have partnered with Chris on the SBSS coin series, he is in no way a partner of the Silver Bullet Silver Shield which was created by Chris years ago. So since Rob has continued forward and presents himself as such, it is what brings me to my own conclusion that Rob is a fraud. This and the Free Lakota Bank SCAM, mansion purchase, Singapore trips, etc. Something stinks here and I’m confident it will be revealed in the near term.
If you want to live in the past, do so, everyone from Rob to me has admitted to past problems. You think there is a scam? Fine go elsewhere for your silver.
Lastly, I only read about 3% of what you wrote if you are going to comment on blogs learn to use the return key and put some paragraph breaks in your comments. That jumbled crap hurts my head, I almost didn’t approve your comment just due to how rambling it appears and how hard it is to read without a headache coming on.
Sorry it is not in proper format for you to follow. Maybe its the content that you choose not to follow as it does not support your cause.
My point is that I have gone elsewhere as Chris has also. Rob has never replied to the Free Lakota Bank fraud claims. Your addmission is irrelevant. If what I wrote hurts your head take an advil. The fraud will be exposed.
Oh and if Chris created all that is silverbulletsilvershield.com, why then does Rob Gray own the domain. It also doesn’t matter that Chris used the term long ago, which he did, when he PARTNERED with Rob and went into business with him as a PARTNER, he made the term part of the PARTNERSHIP, gee folks, crack a damn law book some day.
You put way too much emphasis on the term PARTNERSHIP. It was a buisness relationship similar to a retailer such as Walmart and one of there suppliers. If a supplier cant supply the product to walmart in a timely manner and meet quality requirements, then walmart may simply stop buying from the supplier. Chris duane’s silver bullet silver shiled is the retail store. MM is the supplier. Nobody forced rob to buy all the equipment and staff up. He did what he needed to do to meet demand. They simply failed to meet the demand chris brought them.
Um no, when one side pays for dies, sculpting, design, delivery, customer service, equipment, etc. you have a partnership. No one does all that shit and assumes so much risk without an ownership stake in what is being done, again crack a law book.
@Insidious I couldn’t agree more. I’ve have to admit though, I do find it difficult to strike a balance, especially given the fact that I am dependent on the Internet to help place food on the table. If it was not for that, I would be much happier leaving the Internet and its dramas behind me. Life is after all only that long.
@Insidious lol Exactly.
I honestly don’t understand why Rob is relaunching something that
A. Already has a proven failed relationship that is close to being taken to court
B. Has a tainted name due to the history
C. He doesn’t need to?
Wouldn’t it be better to simply put the money, time, effort into all of his other irons that are in the fire? He seems to have TONS. Multiple streams of income, for the win, but there’s also a point where you’ve splintered into too many different “public faces” and in effect, watered down your brand. All of those different storefronts gets confusing for customers and breeds a sense of distrust.
Is this perhaps a short-term thing, to finish out the production number goal of the debt and death coin and then shut it down? That’s the only reason I could see for trying to revive it.
If it’s to try to recoup money paid to have those dies made; couldn’t those be written off as a failed business expense?
I don’t get it.
I get why you are wanting to stick it to Chris and show Johan some love.
I just don’t get why Rob is going forward with SBSS when he has so many other storefronts and specialty affiliations (like your TSPMint and Kokesh’s AgoristMetals) that have good reputations and no drama attached.
Because
1. The brand has value, much of which he and Mulligan created.
2. There is a commitment to do so standing with SBSS customers. The coins were to be a limited edition but they closed the buying opportunity before they met this obligation. If they failed to come back and finish the limited edition runs, they would be breaking their obligations to the SBSS customer base.
Consider if I told you that we would sell Sentinels for say 90 days, say in 45 days of sales we got behind, say I then shut down orders to catch up (exactly as I did with the Ant coins). Now say when we got caught up I just never brought the Sentinel back? Now say you wanted to buy more then you had purchased and held off because you needed the money for something else but planned to buy before the end of the term, now you can’t get one.
How would you feel?
Personally I think Rob should finish the race with SBSS and then close it down and go do other things from there. That isn’t my call though. I don’t say this because I don’t feel he has a right to continue SBSS, I say it because I think it would be better business long term.
Ahh, okay. So he’s finishing out the promised production run.
That makes sense – there’s his honor to uphold there and fulfilling his promise to mint X number of coins.
I sure hope he does like you said and finishes that out and then closes it. I hate to see him having any ongoing stress/drama/reputation tarnishing with this… poisonous person. (Chris.)
I may not have a lot of disposable cash on hand, but I’ll continue to support Rob as I can, one coin at a time. Maybe he can finish out this run and put this all behind him.
Jack,
I’m in awe of your humanity and benevolence. This world needs more like you.
I was going to order a Sentinel coin last Sunday evening when I saw your great deal about the copper being included – I just couldn’t pull the trigger at the time and still haven’t been able to.
I think it’s a fantastic design and would be proud to display such an object.