Comments

Episode-2850- Topic Round Table for 4-5-21 — 58 Comments

  1. Love the show, but I have to disagree with what you keep calling “facts” about the efficacy of the Covid Vacation.

    A. Tbis is nit “new” per say, we have been working on this platform for 50 years.

    B. This is not gene therapy, the science is elegant and with this, we can totally skip the step of growing virus and protein expression in lab which totally reduces over all time. Stop saying “gene therapy ” stop saying rushed. Name one gene that is being changed?

    C. Yes, this is a novel Vacation, for a novel strain, as all have been however, the side effects have been overall very low.

    D. No Vacation guarantees total immunity, everybody is difrent. The point is to reduce infections.

    E. Its not just about YOUR survival of the infection. Every time someone gets infected, you increase the chance of viral mutations. Thats why you want to reduce infections and speed..

    F. So my wife has PHDs in molecular biology biochemistry and is a director of immunogenity with a major cro actually running Covid assays and trials. And I have to listen to bs like this every day including “they are putting chips in vaccines ” whi is they? Name name? She works her ass of along with thousands of others. While people sit on the side lines talking crap about what they do not understand. And you think they make money off of or have a desire to spend decades in learning, to what ? Hurt people? Yea okay
    Sorry for my tone but this crap is just to much. Greatest Trump triumph was getting the bs bureaucracy out of the way and now we have a vaccine and you are telling people is some sort of conspiracy. To what end?

    G. This was not “rushed” through, no safty test or triles have been skipped. Please insted of listening quack MD’s who have absolutely no training or research experience in immunology or virology. Find someone who actually is in the field.

    In all the time I have been listening to you this is the first time I totally disagree with you, and its only from my personal observation of the scientists working 20 hours a day to stop this virus from what it is truly capable of becoming.

    Thanks for your time, please consider my words and forgive my poor texting abilities.

    • A. Sorry wrong, this is experimental tech. Even the people pushing it say so.

      B. It is gene therapy, if you look up the definition of therapy and gene it is impossible to say otherwise. It is also not a vaccine by the legal definition of vaccine in the US, sorry it isn’t. Except they changed it to make it so, the fact they changed it is proof of my contention.

      C. It is basically a novel cold and no one ever made a successful vaccine for the cold. This so called vaccine is also NOT effective in conferring immunity or stopping spread. And your claim that side effects are low is a lie or ignorance, take your pick. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW who had the injection had pretty serious reactions. EVERY ONE save one and that one got the J&J vaccine. My daughter-in-laws mom had covid and was STUPID enough to get the two shot injection series ONLY A FEW MONTHS after recovery when she had no need of it. She ended up in the fuckin hospital for 2 days after the second injection. When you people claim low side effects you are at best talking the fuck out of your ass.

      D. You are trying to cop out, this so called vaccine confers as far as can be told NO IMMUNITY only some better ability to fight the infection if you are not already innately immune.

      E. This is a special pleading fallacy, as it doesn’t not prevent infection or spread this argument is either a lie or based on stupidity. Take your pick. It can’t be ignorance as the fact it doesn’t prevent spread is known and admitted.

      F. This is not an argument, it is rambling and an attempt to establish credibility on your wife’s job title. It is also a red herring fallacy bringing shit about microchips, etc, which are not part of this debate. As to “quack MDs” that is ad hominem fallacy, and I cited no MDs so also more red herring. Also people like your wife are like teachers in the education system, it doesn’t matter how well intentioned they are, at all, even a little bit. These are the same people who LIED about hcq and ivermectin and called both dangerous when they OTC meds in most of the world. In the end you wife like any employee does exactly what she is told to do. The aim here is money and control not specifically to “help people” or per say to hurt them either. What I have described is not conspiracy it is very much out in the open.

      G. This is simply a false claim, fuckin hell but “operation warp speed” is rushing though. The requirements we have always had for vaccines are NOT MET. Why do we have long term studies before approval? Because some times they reveal problems we didn’t foresee. They are there for a reason.

      You and your wife make me think of my wife for 20 years as a practicing nurse who simply could not look honestly at vaccines while she was giving them. Today she is far more “anti vaxx” then I am. You are literally the system I oppose here and not capable at this point of honest examination.

      • I’d think this guys wife is a PRIME candidate to come on and actual explain/refute/defend or whatever. People who want to educate and inform do that.

        • Unfortunately. In the real world she can not. Legally she is bound to the CRO.

          The possibility of acutualy having all the manufacturing Legally agree for to talk about this or any other therapeutics in assay service is remote to none.

          And yes for me that is frustrating as obviously she is way past my knowledge level or the hosts nurse with with no formal education on the subject.

          However with all the stupidity it the media regarding pharmaceutical science. I also do not blame them. Trying to put the truth out gets met with nothing but hostility from the tin hat echo chamber.

      • Your response is at best what i would expect from a child.. stop accusing people of being false arguments you can’t answer.

        “No no no what i say is fact” without actually understanding any of what your are talking about.

        Name one compound in the vaccine that has not been used in other vacancies and therapeutics?

        Do you understanding the difference between RNA and DNA?

        Do you understanding how protens work?

        Name one vaccine that is 100% full profe?

        Name one vaccine that does not have side effects? ” here is a clue, you are supposed to have an immune response/ some side effect. That’s how vaccines work.

        Name one safety test that was skipped?

        The rna vaccine is just that, it does not affect your DNA replication or change in any way the cell or cellular function, or gene function, you are simply introducing a very specificamount of rna and letting the cell do the work, letting the body do what is was built to do.

        This is a much better technology then traditional methods. In fact what the hell do you think a traditional vaccine like the Johnson vac does when it introduces an attenuated or virus particulate into a person along with all the chemicals used for protection stabilizing. The technology is safer and requires less laboratory time (no incubation needed). Talk about irrational feer. Duh if you have no need to grow live cells to manufacture virus for vaccines, the process will be faster. Technology moves forward despite irrational fears not based in real science.

        Biologically tell me how this vaccine negatively effect any cellular process and actually use data . You armchair opinions do not count as scientific “facts”

        I get it, you don’t like being disagreed with, however you are dangerously misleading people with nonsense.

        Insted of dismissing my questions how about actually answering a few.

        • You have just explained about 1000% more than an entire year of major media. And that isn’t nearly enough.

    • @David

      One can make a case that accelerating the timeline (if you prefer that to the term ‘rushed’) may have been deemed necessary given the circumstances, but how can we honestly say these vaccines are seeing the same length & duration of testing that vaccines traditionally get? As per the link below, Phase 2 clinical trials (assessing safety & immune response) have traditionally been conducted over 2-3 years, and Phase 3 clinical trials (assessing safety & efficacy) traditionally conducted over 2-4 years. Those timelines are independent of any of the manufacturing and regulatory approval processes.
      https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline

      With time comes greater certainty and better information. Again, accelerating MAY have been a reasonable call given the circumstances, but let’s not fool ourselves into assuming we have more & better information & data than we actually do…

    • I did not entirely agree with Jack’s “truth” either. But I also do not agree with this poster either.

      My BIGGEST problem is that there are a lot of unknown issues out there. As a scientist (PhD) I want someone to actually explain what was supposed to happen and how it happened faster than ever before. I want someone to explain pro’s and cons of the protein production via mRNA approach. There clearly are both.

      But a lot of what I get is “I’m just not explaining it” or “You are just wrong”. I’m really intelligent, highly educated, and patient. I will say at least Jack is making the offer. I can see super cautious prepare guy being overly concerned. I can also see immune-whateverologist having their head so far in the molecular weeds they miss the point.

      But as said – Jack offered the opportunity, and he/she appears to be passing…interesting.

    • Your response is at best what i would expect from a child.. stop accusing people of being false arguments you can’t answer.

      “No no no what i say is fact” without actually understanding any of what your are talking about.

      Name one compound in the vaccine that has not been used in other vacancies and therapeutics?

      Do you understanding the difference between RNA and DNA?

      Do you understanding how protens work?

      Name one vaccine that is 100% full profe?

      Name one vaccine that does not have side effects? ” here is a clue, you are supposed to have an immune response/ some side effect. That’s how vaccines work.

      Name one safety test that was skipped?

      The rna vaccine is just that, it does not affect your DNA replication or change in any way the cell or cellular function, or gene function, you are simply introducing a very specificamount of rna and letting the cell do the work, letting the body do what is was built to do.

      This is a much better technology then traditional methods. In fact what the hell do you think a traditional vaccine like the Johnson vac does when it introduces an attenuated or virus particulate into a person along with all the chemicals used for protection stabilizing. The technology is safer and requires less laboratory time (no incubation needed). Talk about irrational feer. Duh if you have no need to grow live cells to manufacture virus for vaccines, the process will be faster. Technology moves forward despite irrational fears not based in real science.

      Biologically tell me how this vaccine negatively effect any cellular process and actually use data . You armchair opinions do not count as scientific “facts”

      I get it, you don’t like being disagreed with, however you are dangerously misleading people with nonsense.

      Insted of dismissing my questions how about actually answering a few.

      Also, you use you brother and freinds constantly in your bull shit analogies, my actual use of my wife as a credible resource is legitimate and did not require you asinine insult.

      I will not be responding to anymore of your insulting replies. Enjoy your echo chamber.

      • Now you are ranting and not making any arguments. More fallacy and appeal to authority.

        If you want to debate this, I am game, LIVE with a third party moderator in a video feed.

        Though you should know I have been able to tell you the difference between mRNA and DNA since 6 grade science class.

        Each of your points is easy to counter but I don’t have time to do them all again. Here is one example, so simple.

        “Name one safety test that was skipped?”

        Long term safety studies that monitor the effects of the vaccine on the experimental group, this is generally a two year process. It has to of been skipped, as we have yet to have anyone injected who has been so for even a full year. There is a reason this is required.

        • didn’t think you could honestly reply.

          We don’t do that with the flue vaccine.

          Good day sir

        • No we do not do that with each new version of the flu vaccine, though I am not aware of a “flue vaccine.”

          However with each version we are using the same vaccine and just modifying it based on the most prominent expected type, subtype, clade and sub-clade of the flu for the coming season. Something they often get wrong by the way. But I am sure a super duper science guy like you knew that right?

          Annnnnnnyyyyyyyywaaaaaaay, the vaccine itself DID undergo long term testing before first being approved. You knew that too though right?

        • NIHI then, you condensing insults aside, same rules applied as again we have had this technique for about 50 years.

          And again when did insay the yearly vacation or any vacation was 100%?

          I said the very opposite, if you could stop acting like a child for just a moment you would have seen that.

          I, also as a side not have never gotten the flu vaccine.

      • furthermore I never and also pointed out I am not a “super science guy” that obviously is the role who have granted on yourself.

        I get the fact you are incapable of a civilized adult conversation.

        Grow up!

  2. I thought the official statements about the vaccines were saying they couldn’t definitively PROVE yet that it prevents the majority of infection or the ability to spread (one can presume said in part to cover their butts, and partly just to keep us afraid). Wouldn’t this be a subtle but important difference from them stating the vaccines do NOT prevent infection or transmission? If they actually did say the former, I’d like to know who said it and when. The CDC seems to claim otherwise (of course we’re just comparing their CLAIMS and STATEMENTS here and not the actual level of effectiveness which only time will tell): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/work.html

    But regardless of that, it doesn’t change my approach to these vaccines which is similar to yours… given my circumstances and what we know and what we don’t, the risk management analysis just doesn’t make taking any of the vaccines a worthwhile trade-off for me. At least not at this time; as we get better information then I will re-evaluate. And should I change my mind, I also would lean away from the mRNA vaccines. I’d sooner take the Russian Sputnik V vaccine over those, which like the J&J and Astrazeneca/Oxford vaccines are based on a more proven method (adenovirus vector). Still not a guarantee of safety, but at least there are less unknowns involved. I think one or more of the Chinese vaccines are based on the even older inactivated virus vaccine method. But I trust China even less than Big Pharma, which is saying something.

    Lastly, do you have a link to the law or regulation prohibiting approval or use of vaccines for a readily treatable or curable disease/condition? I can’t seem to find it, and am not sure if my google-fu is weak or if this is purposely being memory-holed and made difficult to find. I had already been operating on the assumption Big Pharma and the sickcare industry pushed to marginalize HCQ and Ivermectin just to sell more vaccines. But if you’re right then they had an even greater incentive to do so, i.e. the difference between getting to sell less vaccine or not being able to sell any AT ALL. Oof…

    • If you really look at what the mRNA based gene therapy shots do, you would not even expect it to confer immunity or stop spread.

      A conventional vaccine triggers the immune system as if the individual was infected, so what ever immunity infection confers, is conferred by the vaccine.

      The mRNA injections do not, period, sorry they do not. The mRNA gene therapy only causes the body to recognize the specific spike protein, not the virus itself. This means it is likely the case that the body will at some point see a spike protein (that is harmless) that looks like the one from Cov-SARs and attack it anyway.

      I am about 99% that you are going to see three things over the next few years…

      1. A massive spike in auto immune issues and disorders including some they will need names for.

      2. A decline in fertility rates especially in males and an upswing in miscarriages in females.

      3. People who are vaccinated being hit HARDER by variants then those relying on naturally acquired immunity.

      Oh here is a bonus 4th, even though the link to the so called vaccine will be very clear, they will blame the unvaccinated and the majority of the sheep will believe it. And even at that point when you point back to me making this comment I will be labeled a quack and a conspiracy theorist.

        • Unlike the rest I have no proof of this, it is instinct and an understanding of what this vaccine does. It is a hunch but my hunches tend to prove out about 85% of the time. I could be wrong on this one and fully admit it.

      • I don’t feel confident enough in my knowledge to assign that kind of probability to any of those. But I certainly wouldn’t bet AGAINST any of them happening (common sense pointing to #3 & 4 especially). Yet we’re criticized for even entertaining the concept, much less acting on these concerns. How bizarre of a contradiction is it that fear is being seen as a virtue at the same time caution is being considered a sin?

        In a weird way I’m glad Mongolia’s finances and infrastructure are too “underdeveloped” to make widespread application of the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines feasible here. I’m not convinced of the long term safety of all the adenovirus vector vaccines being sent here from Russia and Astrazeneca either, but at least they’re more of a known quantity. Not enough to make me take a chance on them (not yet), but perhaps it will at least equate to fewer here suffering any unnecessary long term side effects they don’t have the finances to treat.

  3. It is gene therapy yes ..

    The facts point to a kind of propaganda conspiracy which people simply can not accept so they believe what they are told

    smallpox is about the only vaccine that seems hard to easily question, I am not sure about polio ..

    • The evidence for polio is just as compelling. If you were a bit older you’d of grown up around people still paralyzed from it, including even some quite young folks.

  4. Question about Vitamin D3, though no worries if this goes beyond what you can answer legally.

    Why three times a day and why in the evening? And why K2 with Vitamin D3 instead of separated?

    I ask because of all the advice I’ve seen, even from those who recommend higher (albeit, not 30,000IUs) doses is to take Vitamin D3 in the AM, or as early as possible, because of it’s potential to interact/interfere with Melatonin and then, theoretically sleep. In thoughts on this? I didn’t see anything about timing in Dr. Somerville’s book.

    As far as K2, I do not know reasons why, but the advice I have seen online is to take K2 in the evening, far away from Vitamin D3.

    Thanks

    • Why three, because I break my supplements into three times a day and 30,000 (Dr. Somerville’s recommendation) divides easily into 3. I doubt it really matters but spreading it out seems like a good idea to me. As it also regulates sleep taking some before bed seems well advised as well to me.

      As to K2, NONE of the books I have read on the subject which have gone into extensive detail about the aspects of K2 moving calcium back into the bones, have recommended separation of the dosages. The concept itself makes NO SENSE if you understand why you take the K2 in the first place. The book by Jeff Bowles goes into EXTENSIVE crowd sourcing from real world members of his community. Nothing there either.

  5. So without insults, please explain why all the scientists, including my phd wife who actually worked on the vaccines. Unlike your nurse who has no formal education in vaccines or experience in any pharmaceutical development of any kind. And no sir that is not a “fallacy ”

    Are all getting the vaccine?

    If they are all, thousands of them in on your conspiracy… why did both my wife and I get the vaccine?

    • @Dave
      I thought you said you were no longer responding? I only ask cause I took the popcorn out of the microwave and I was wondering if I should put it back in?

      thanks in advance

    • One more time I don’t have the time to sit here going back and forth in text, I have an open invitation to debate LIVE in video. I have agreed to give you double my time and let you use the internet while you debate an I get two pages of hand written notes. Put up or bugger off.

      As to professionals, do you know the number one demographic turning down the vaccine? It is front line health care workers.

      • I AM NOT THE ONE TALKING SHIT!

        I gave you my experience as a spouse of someone who is in the field.

        I also pointed out why I can’t legally have a formal online debate. I also specifically pointed out the wife and I and the people she works with are all vaccinated.

        My internet was not to get into a pissing match of insults and f boxes back and forth with you. I simply pointed out the reality of what I have been exposed to.

        You have offered nothing to change the facts. Vaccines have proven to have a low level of side effects, have been extremely successful. No I do not believe in mandatory vaccinations.

        Take it or leve it, obviously you are determined to make this personal. But it changes nothing . Live I said, the people who have developed this technique have overwhelming received the vaccine without hesitation. The platform is safe and the technology is sound.

        Who would a failure of the vaccine actually profit? Certainly not the pharmaceutical companies who created it it. Trumps staff got it. No issues

        Say what you will, but obviously, it is working just fine and the more who do get the vaccine. The faster we will win.

        Is it guaranteed, no, nothing ever is. But the rewards greatly out way the risks.

        • There is likely a reason your wife can’t but NONE you can’t so long as you don’t invoke her name.

          Better is why WON’T anyone have this debate or other debates like HCQ or Ivermectin in any environment where they can actually be challenged?

          It is so typical, all you folks have no problem making claims, that is “legal” but being formally challenged is not?

          Why are valid treatments suppressed? Why?

          Why were all the HCQ trials intentionally flawed by ignoring a key component of the therapy along with proper timing, and even some where near dead patients were given known toxic does of the mediation?

          Why are dissenting opinions silenced instead of being met in the form or rigorous debate?

          Only a fool would trust authority with all we have seen happen in the past year, only a fool.

          Tell you what go find someone to have this debate, the more qualified the better. And if you say no one is allowed to do that, I find it absurd. The industry and dot gov send out “experts” daily to tell us just shut up and obey but I have yet to see a single formal debate between informed sides.

          That is not science and YOU KNOW IT.

        • And I know right I am not worth debating, great you go find anyone willing to take your side of the debate and I will facilitate finding an opposing view with sufficient credentials after his/her name.

      • “There is likely a reason your wife can’t but NONE you can’t so long as you don’t invoke her name.”

        When did I ever “invole” her name?

        What’s her name?

        Not everyone is dishonest by default, stop projecting.

        I am sorry you can’t understand why I will not run the risk of putting her career at risk.

        • You invoked her credentials as though it gave you credibility. For all I know you don’t even have a wife and are full of shit or you could be totally honest here, I have no way to know. Do you know how many people said, “I know three ER doctors I talk to every day” to make points at the beginning of all this? Everyone has the same story? 3 Doctors and all are 3 ER doctors. I heard this BS claim several times a day for two months on social media and then it just stopped being claimed. Funny that.

          I am open and public and stand by what I say, you are nothing but a common name making claims in a comment section.

          Again my offer is simple if this is as you say a healthy public debate is a good idea. Get anyone, ANYONE and I will get someone to debate them and a good moderator and facilitate things.

          The fact that “experts” are on TV and Radio daily but none will accept formal rigorous debate says EVERYTHING. I am done now, you either get someone to take this on or you are nothing but text from an anonymous source.

    • “If they are all, thousands of them in on your conspiracy… why did both my wife and I get the vaccine?”

      Upton Sinclair — ‘It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.’

      And I NEVER said that you or your wife or anyone in such a role is “in on the conspiracy” I said people with a job do exactly what they fuck they are told to do. Perhaps you should look up the concept of compartmentalization. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/computer-science/compartmentalization

      • Jack, I would enjoy watching you debate Matt Dillahunty on this. He is in Austin and debates constantly on YouTube, a host on the Atheist Experience. I have no connections sadly but would enjoy the back and forth.

    • @David

      more seriously — “Are all getting the vaccine?”

      they are not all getting it — I think last I saw about 33% said they were not confident in the testing of the “vaccines” and about 16% I think said they would quit if it was made mandatory

      • as is I said, my wife’s lab. You shouldn’t blindly believe everything on the internet.

        I never have nor never will support mandatory vacation.

        33% you “think” yea okay. But 66% do, I can see the winning side here.

        • 48% of health care workers have refused the vaccine. The highest number there of are front line workers who have been treating covid.

          The biggest reason given is many have tested positive already and recovered and feel if you need a vaccine after that is shows the vaccine to be ineffective or at least unneeded.

          Now let me play your silly game, so what are all those millions of professionally trained medical personal in on my foil hat conspiracy?

        • “as is I said, my wife’s lab.” – that wasn’t clear, my apologies it is now

          “You shouldn’t blindly believe everything on the internet.” – then I don’t believe everyone in your wife’s lab was vaccinated cause I read it on the internet

          “I never have nor never will support mandatory vacation.” — ok?

          “33% you “think” yea okay. But 66% do, I can see the winning side here.” — trying to recall a recent poll of health care workers, you can google that shit for yourself. Just because a larger percentage are choosing to receive it doesn’t negate the fact that people in the industry have concerns.

          by the way, for a guy that said he is not going to reply any more — you sure do reply a lot .. watch how it is done … buh-bye

  6. Quercetin dosage question: In the past you’ve said 500mg quercetin w/zinc twice a day. Here you mentioned 250mg twice a day, but the product recommended contains 500mg. Is the 250mg a typo?

    • he mentions in the show that he reduced his usage over time. After taking it for some time you need less on a daily basis to maintain.

        • Oh and important here the brand I recommend is 250mg per capsule, the serving size (dose) on the label is for two capsules.

        • That was my problem. The ones I’m using are 500mg each capsule. Didn’t realize the one recommended was 250mg. I’ll use up what I have and then switch. Thanks!

  7. Jack,

    I am not really sure on Polio .. There is a claim about a connection between polio and DDT that seems worthy of further investigation. Many polio vaccines where also known to be contaminated with viruses

    This is still going on even today but seems to have happened many times in the past as well

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/un-says-new-polio-outbreak-in-sudan-caused-by-oral-vaccine/2020/09/02/2da5cf4e-ecf9-11ea-bd08-1b10132b458f_story.html

    UN says new polio outbreak in Sudan caused by oral vaccine

  8. This was also a concern among scientists regarding AIDS because the same process is used for vaccines in Africa and AIDS was connected to Monkeys and they used monkey kidneys to make the vaccine. I saw a documentary that said that they did not need to use monkey kidneys but they kept doing it anyway even after contamination concerns arose from actual cases of contamination

    https://www.nature.com/articles/1207877

    In 1960, it was discovered that Simian Virus 40 (SV40) contaminated up to 30% of the poliovirus vaccines in the US. This contamination arose because the vaccines were produced in monkey kidney cell cultures harboring SV40 between 1955 and 1963. During this period, approximately 90% of children and 60% of adults in the USA were inoculated for polio and possibly exposed to SV40.

    • Screwing up a vaccine (several batches in this instance) is not evidence that the vaccine itself is flawed. As to your other comment Polio predates DDT. While DDT was first invented in the 1870s it was not patented and manufactured and used in large quantities until the 1940s.

      The first polio epidemic in the US occurred in 1894 before DDT was used in any quantity anywhere in the world.

      Doesn’t mean that DDT may not have made bad worse and historically we didn’t have epidemics of Polio but it was around for hundreds of years prior to any modern chemical engineering. In the 1910s we had regular epidemics of polio there was no real use of DDT.

      The height of polio epidemics was in the 40s, that doesn’t mean DDT caused it to peak at the time, it does mean it is at least temporally possible.

    • Selenium is important but covered by any decent multi.

      Green Tea was a hedge until I fully confirmed that quercetin was a solid ionophore on its own. Nothing wrong with it, personally for me it was too much caffeine for my liking.

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