Episode-1241- The Possibilities of Abundance in Spite of Modern Self Destruction

Today I am going to talk about permacutlure from an entirely different angle then I have in the past.  What I mean is the concept that really makes permaculture brilliant isn’t swales, food forests and biogas energy.  No it is the concept that we can do the following…

Take responsibility for our own existence and that of our children and do so while not harming others, not harming natural systems and generate sufficient surplus for it to work.

That of course is taking the prime directive of permaculture and the three ethics and making one goal oriented sentence out of them.  I would ask you this though, as a modern survivalist, is that not exactly what we should all be working for.

Notice the above says nothing about growing plants, digging ditches, raising chickens or planting gardens.  Notice also there is nothing political about it, it is all about self responsibility, self governance and self directed decisions.  It begins with two words, “take responsibility” and once spoken those words leave no room to blame others, call on a government to fix a problem or sit around and hope that things get better.

Join Me Today to Discuss…

  • The ethics and directive as a life philosophy, what is it closest to?
  • Why people don’t understand permaculture, it doesn’t “fit” our way of thinking
  • Why growing food is what permaculture is most known for, but perhaps should not be
  • How much wealth is in a swale, how much in a tree or a pond
  • Why we need to understand that all wealth originates from natural systems
  • What is the real value of an hour of human labor
  • Why permaculture values off grid living so highly, security!
    • Lack of systemic dependence
    • Requires the creation of redundancy
    • Eliminates huge amounts of interference
    • Results in a “balanced” system
  • What does it mean if permaculture isn’t possible?

Resources for today’s show…

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27 Responses to Episode-1241- The Possibilities of Abundance in Spite of Modern Self Destruction

  1. Great podcast. The wife and I have talked about what “permaculture is” numerous types especially after she told people it was “a gardening thing”, which is nonsense. She knows better now that she’s certified. =)

    The easiest way I think I can describe it so that “regular people” might know exactly what I’m talking about it “sustainable design”. “Everything from architecture, and gardening, to engineering”. After that I might jump into an explanation of what makes it sustainable and its purpose (philosophy).

    Your explanation of edge using fishing was great. Want to catch no fish? Go out to where there are NO edges. Just flat nothing water. Hence why the oceans are mostly fishless. They hang out on the shelves, or as my uncle found one time a sunken truck.

    • I like using the words holistic and renewable in lieu of sustainable due to Agenda 21/Plan B/Smarth Growth. They really spiked the old punch bowl there…sigh. Thanks Merkel and friends.

    • Id looove to hear more on aquatic environments in relation to permaculture.

  2. I don’t often leave comments, I don’t like false flattery. I do however like this podcast especially. I think this is a gem in your treasury of podcasts. Thank you for your part in the permaculture ideal expansion.

  3. Awesome episode. So, if oil runs out in 500 years and we should start creating solutions now… the sun will burn out in 2 billion years, should we start trying to figure out how to reverse the second law of thermodynamics? (serious question by the way, I’m not trolling)

    • Start figuring out how to get to a newer solar system with a habitable planet I suppose.

      • And then when all the energy in the universe is even and we have “heat death” ? All life in the universe will be gone. If we want to continue with natural systems we need a natural or unnatural system that can reverse entropy. I.E. a micro big bang compressor or black hole energy inverter… (Steven Harris would say I’m being crazy haha)

      • @Jake
        Our supply and consumption of oil is conceivably controllable, the sun is not (at least conceivably). Therefore, we can mentally put the sun “problem” to the side.

        Another look is taking what Jack says about probability. The sun going out is the worst case scenario, but the least likely. The oil is the most likely scenario and probably a pretty bad one, so that seems logical enough to tackle that one.

    • Wikipedia:
      Stars are expected to form normally for 10^12 to 10^14 (1-100 trillion) years, but eventually the supply of gas needed for star formation will be exhausted. And as existing stars run out of fuel and cease to shine, the universe will slowly and inexorably grow darker, one star at a time.

      So.. you have a while.

      And that’s if black holes spitting matter into the universe proves false. ;-)

    • Modern Survival

      Actually at 2-4 billion years even though I love you man, it is absolutely a stupid and totally pointless question.

    • Hemp oil is easily produced and superior to petroleum. It replaces nearly all of petroleums’s uses and is illegal for that very fact.

      • Modern Survival

        It isn’t that simple. While I find making hemp illegal to be stupid beyond words it isn’t the miracle you think it is. Truth is the US is one of a very few nations where hemp is illegal to grow. It is completely legal in Canada, now if it did everything so perfectly as you say, don’t you think the Canucks would be bankrolling that crap?

        It is a pretty amazing plant and it is better for biofuel then any of the things we are currently using, but it won’t do what many proponents claim in the volumes and with the ease they claim.

  4. Isn’t one of the variables in reaching the balance and abundance that permaculture talks about is human population. The population growth of the world has been, without being chicken little, a huge factor is where we are today. I haven’t really heard many permaculturist discuss this issue unless I am to assume they believe human population is a non-issue, and our growth can continue unabated. Is this the case?

    • Modern Survival

      @Scott, populations moderate themselves when people become secure in their survival. Show me one developed nation with rapid population growth.

      Permaculturists realize this and it is a principle of design by the way. That a species is most in danger of extinction when it has a very high or very low population.

      If stability is created people by and large have less children by choice.

    • Jack, I have heard this line of thinking before, and it has never made any sense to me. The typical line of thought is that the poorer you are, the more kids you have. That seems completely illogical to me. Doesn’t having more children mean I have to more resources to feed everyone? The idea that by having more kids you are creating your own workforce for the family always seemed IMHO to be a very poor ROI, and more likely to fail than not.

      When you are poor, are you generally not trying to reduce your level of exposure to risk that can wipe you out? Kids generally bring a lot of unknowns into the equation, and I assume you would not start down that road until some level of security can be obtained (no matter have tenuous or short-sighted that security may be).

      Granted, people are not being logical when the discuss of family and children gets started. It is more emotional. I know it is hard call. I would not pass judgement on the family that decided to not have children or if they had 10 kiddos. I guess the hope is that whatever size your family is, you don’t grow it any larger than you can support by your own work.

      • Modern Survival

        Well what you think or I think doesn’t matter, what is matters.

        So show me a developed nation with rapid population growth right now.

        Then show me a nation that does have rapid population growth and tell me the income level of the average person in that society.

        Fact are facts whether you or I like them or not. The most rapid population growth is always in poor or developing nations, once developed they always moderate and always have. Look at the US growth in population, Europe, etc.

      • @Scott -
        You have to figure in the likelihood of any one of your children reaching maturity. And there is another factor beyond poverty, which is food availability. ‘Poor’ nomadic tribes not receiving food aid automatically regulate tribal/family size based on food availability. Not doing so results in ‘nature’ doing it for them (starvation).

        In other words, IMO: you have too many people in an area for the level of food available. The people start starving. You send in ‘food aid’. The people stop starving. Aid food is made available on a ‘per person’ basis, so having more kids doesn’t negatively impact food availability. So you have more kids. The people start starving..

        And you’re assuming that a person/family trying to find food/water for today is making ‘logical’ long term plans about their future.

        Survival mode is all about the now.

      • @insidious

        Tribal societies do take great care for their impact on their environment because they know they are being ‘lent’ its resources and revere it so. We must respect the mothership again. Trust Gaia.

      • They are also mentally driven to produce more progeny for survival’s sake and for more hands to gather and process resources.

    • From what I’ve read on the matter the single factor that determines population growth the most is the levels of education in women. And this is education both about birth control and a general level of education.

      I would assert that education among women is a function of a stable, secure society. Like one that can have discussions about contentious issues without resorting to mass violence or repression.

      Groups of high population growth within developed countries are outliers and I don’t think to many conclusions can be made from them.

      • Overpopulation is a myth set forth by the genocidal maniacs who desire harm on all those not of their ilk. The earth also has expanded to accomodate.

        Scarcity is engendered by the unsustainable practices we perpetuate and the permaculture principles I am now only. Beginning to comprehend is frankly the golden ticket to reversing it all…well sans chemtrails and the nuclear power plaants melting down come the ice age dropping the sea levels…

  5. Great episode Jack. To the comments regarding the Sun, let’s get real. We all have an expiration date as does our civilization ultimately our species. Let’s live well, treat each other with respect and have the intelligence to treat the planet we inhabit with a bit of care while we as individuals are present. If we can do that our civilization may see another century, millennium, or possible longer. And along the way we may live more meaningful and fulfilling lives.

    Again, seriously great food for thought Jack.
    David

  6. Hey Jack, realy loved your definition of permaculture, great podcast ! I realy hope it inspires more people to just start doing it. ( I have an engineering degree and a permaculture course under my belt)

  7. Amazing show Jack.

  8. I have never listened to a show three times in a row. This one has gems in it that continue to evolve!

  9. Perfect episode for the date of the American Insolvency. Another gem on the dragon’s hoarde of GREAT shows. You earn every membership. I will be one soon I swear it.

    Wow. Thank you brother.