Episode-2009- A New Look at Virtual Nations

What Truly Defines a Nation vs. a State?

In 2014 I first conceived of the concept of a “Virtual Nation” in episode 1428 and it was huge learning experience.  The most surprising thing was when I asked people what would they put in the constitution of a virtual nation, some of the first ideas were things like term limits and restrictions on elected officials.

What?  Why would you have elected officials in a voluntary society?  That was my reaction and what I learned is even in the liberty community how entrenched the concepts of statism are.

Not long after this, the first proclaimed virtual nation (BitNation) was launched.  Along with that I took another look at the concept in episode 1561.  Since then BitNation has yet to do much that I can see anyway, though I am officially a citizen, there isn’t much you can really do yet inside it.

Then this week I was listening to podcasts on the Let’s Talk Bitcoin Network and came across this episode, State Change #41 Unpacking Digital Identity – Christian Lundkvist, Stephen Wilson. The guest brought up a lot of challenges with digital identity including layers of identity, such as how much identity does a given action require.  Such as to play an online game you don’t need to reveal as much information as you do to say request a loan.

They seemed pretty resigned to still needing the state to acomplish much of this, however, it led me to what virtual nations should really be doing to create a “first product”.  A true and validated identity that anyone would accept.  While it sounds complicated, it really would not be.  It would also be a source of initial funding for a virtual nation and provide a creditable base for everything beyond that.  Make sense?  If not tune in for a revolutionary idea that I have been working on in my head for over three years now.

Join Me Today to Discuss…

  • My original idea for a virtual nation in a nut shell
  • How the currency model is now far easier to acomplish
  • The concept of a virtual nation identification
    • Create a secure vetted environment
    • Use the states tools to verify identity in every meaningful way
    • Put the individual in full control of their identity
    • Allow “natives” to build ID 100% internally
  • Where a VN goes from here
    • Market force (group buys)
    • Educational certifications
    • Conflict resolution
    • Corporate Structures
    • General Marketplace
    • Entertainment
    • Insurance (yes really)
  • Why this is our only real play at this time

Resources for today’s show…

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10 Responses to Episode-2009- A New Look at Virtual Nations

  1. George Coe II

    I find it interesting that I just listened to this podcast a few days ago.
    It made me think of your original virtual nation podcast because they brought up very similar conclusions to where our society is heading. Their take, in general, is that corporations may be the next virtual nations. Not sure if you are aware of IOT (Internet Of Things) or not? Definitely worth listing to to get up to speed on what is going behind the corporate scene and the direction they are going. It is a Christian based view point, but besides the opening credits it is pretty light on the preaching.

  2. Rick DeWeese


    The groundwork is being laid for your virtual nation amongst our youth. There are gaming virtual nations all over the place. Runescape is huge. The concept is there and our gamers have already accepted the concept. They already use their own currencies within these environments.

    Your dead on that the identification issue is one of the keys. I was talking to it with my son and he understood readily that one of these virtual nations (games) suffers from terrible inflation because they have an “unlimited” gold supply…and therefor unlimited inflation.

    You are right, we are close!

  3. Jack,
    Thanks for this episode. I’ll +1 on what Rick just said, where you said that the key is the govs mandatory harvesting of all our info and ID. THAT is where they can enforce all this stuff. The whole system of pitting us all against each other as consumers instead of citizens united. With that they derive all this credit worthiness based system. No more savers, only borrowers. The thinking is so ingrained, so institutional too. When people get a windfall of extra money they automatically think to lever up instead of pay down with it. There are certain times when it makes sense to lever up, but paying things down have always served me better more times than not. #tspnation.

    • Modern Survival

      This is the entire point of a deflationary currency like BTC.

      Imagine if BTC simply deflated by 15% a year vs the dollar inflating by about 4%.

      So that if you held 100K in savings this was your math with NO INTEREST and hence no risk.

      Dollar at the end you have 96K that buys 96K worth of stuff, the number says 100K but the power is now 96.

      With BTC you would have 115K worth of BTC that would now buy 110K worth of stuff in dollars, because the dollar still inflated.

      Wow, doesn’t that really show the hidden tax of inflation! More over though, if the average person invests 10% of their income for 40 years they end up a multi millionaire if they make a 7% consistent return on their money over that 40 years, but it takes risk and FUNDING THE BANKING SYSTEM at the same time.

      What people need to get as well is, Coinbase can simply be where you buy BTC.

      Buy it, send it to another wallet. Pay no tax on that for two reasons.

      1. If you buy and sell right away, well you will technically loose at least a bit of money in fees.

      2. Just because you sent it doesn’t mean you sold it.

      Next if you are investing in Ether or LTC or Augur, etc. say anything in Jaxx.

      Move your BTC to Jaxx, shape shift it instantly, by the book you have no tax liability because in that short term you won’t have a gain.

      Your money is not say in DASH and can be sent anomalously to yet another wallet.

      For what is worth here is what Coinbase is doing. They are segmenting their customers into casual users and professional traders.

      Why? To better fight general warrants!

      The funny thing is I guarantee you 1000000% guarantee you that the people most concerned about using Coinbase are planning on buying 50-100 bucks of BTC and actually worrying about that.

  4. I went and listened to this particular podcast on LTBN and you’re right. They are really trying to do a digital upgrade as it were on today’s existing systems. They have not made the paradigm shift.

    To be fair, the idea of a blockchain (a distributed global ledger) isn’t so revolutionary as evolutionary in a technology sense. What was revolutionary is that Satoshi Nakamoto was crazy enough to build a currency on it without the backing of any state anywhere and nothing backing the currency. And crazy enough to think that people might one day value it, even more than gold. Created a digital tallystick. But at least with a tallystick, you could pay taxes so that was the backing of the state.

    These guys are talking evolution. We are going to need a new Satoshi to build a decentralized virtual nation platform. And I think someone from Swarm City might just be able to get it.

  5. Mark Boland

    I have two comments:

    Healthcare – my one sentence healthcare reform plan is : All procedures will have standardized pricing and be listed on eBay”. Here is a great overview of the true nature of the issue.

    Federal taxes: True liberty should address the evil of taxation. The fact is the government can only enforce the tax law on a probabilistic way via audits. The likelihood of an audit is very low. I the VN offered “audit insurance” that would allow VN Citizen to keep more of their money by playing “cat and mouse”/”catch me if you can” with the IRS a win win outcome is possible. Allow free people to keep more of the fruits of their labor and hit the police state where it counts – in its wallet.

  6. Mark Boland

    with regard to commerce: If the commercial offer was a blockchain with confidential ownwershi and ad display data that it would be able to be displayed by a browser that had no legal responsibility for the offer. (Only the person making my the offer). This would allow for free and sovereign commerce without getting into “Silk Road” type trouble

    Just a thought

  7. Could you use a company to vet a virtual citizen instead of using the state? For example, coin base already vets it’s customers using the state, with ss# etc. What if a vr nation partnered with coin base to vet it’s citizens. In exchange coin base would handle transactions of the vr nations coins into dollars and vice versa. Maybe assign you two numbers, a coin base acct # and a vr nation id #, they’d be linked together but coin base doesn’t get to reveal the vr nation ID to anyone, like govt. Like a public and private key for identification.

    • Modern Survival

      Well sort of.

      Few issues….

      1. Coinbase uses a ssn and that is all. SSNs are forged all the time. They also link to a bank and one thing done with a forged SSN is opening back accounts.

      2. Coinbase would assume the liability for little gain.

      3. Coinbase doesn’t require a state issued identity card like a driver’s license or passport.

      My vision is one that any entity would have to see as absolutely vetted and verified and it would be “open source”, not the database of course which well wouldn’t really exist. The block chain would only know this token is this person, and this data goes with this token. This sounds risky but it doesn’t need to be.

      That data would be decentralized. Yes I know someone lives in Jacksonville Florida, I know someone has had surgery for removing their tonsils, I know someone has been arrested for possession of pot, I know someone is a certified NRA instructor and I know someone has a DOB of 3-12-74, I know someone owns a 97 Pontiac, I know someone worked for Lockheed, etc, but I don’t know that that was one person or 7 people and I don’t know who he/she/they are?

      What I do know is there is a token all that information goes with, the person that owns the token is the only one with the private key to it and that token can only exist ONE TIME ever.

      If you have this with a process of review no one could legitimately dispute the identity as valid.

      So you might have a two part automated verification and a two part human verification. The second human would never know who the first human was, the automated system would know who verified everyone. This would all but prevent fake IDs.

      If you are bribed to put a fake one through the next human or computer is going to catch it and you are busted. If you are the second person on one and let it go, you are busted. Further making it like a double blind you wouldn’t know if you were the first or second party to review it manually, only the automated system would.

      Know false ids could be put through as on the fly audits! And as a quality control method.

      A sand box could be made for company training with a indicator of everyone crated in this world as being fake but the actual simulator would test new people until they were 100% at identifying fakes.

      This is actually better than anything government does.

      I would say that to get this id you would need….

      Birth Certificate
      State Issued ID or Passport
      Finger Printing
      Background Check

      As to adding details to your token like education achievements, etc. this could be largely automated and work a lot like how miners verify transactions today. The small fee would be paid by the owner of said ID.

      There would also need to be a way for the system itself to append all public actions in the VN to the token.

      IE – We contract inside Libertas to have you design a website for me. You do the job and I take exception to deliverable. We go to arbitration, the arbitrator sides with me, you make the concession, do the extra work and I pay you. We both end up satisfied.

      Your token, my token and the arbitrators token should all reflect the parts of this that apply to each of us.

      Now I can’t see your token but if we do business again, I ask you to provide the information, you do so, I see not just what I know but that since the last time you did 4 more projects, you completed them all and no further arbitration was required. I am very likely to hire you again, you are also likely to have a more clearly defined statement of work for me, we are less likely to end up in another misunderstanding. Your next person knows that even I who had a dispute with you rehired you. Big points right?

      The big thing is the process should be so intensive that anyone saying, that ID isn’t valid would clearly look like an idiot, cause the State is going to do exactly that and deny the validity of the ID and therefore the citizenship in the VN.

      The battle will end up in the court of Public Opinion and if you dot every I and cross every T you can win that battle.