Episode-849- Liberty is Alive and Well

I spend a lot of time on “individual liberty”.  I do so because I think the tide to turn government is so deep that it will take decades or longer to really change things.  Until such time I refuse to live in oppression so I have and will always teach that when it comes to liberty like many things, what you do matters is the number one component to success.

However being in New Hampshire for a few days with the crazy, radical, libertarian folks that call themselves the “Free Staters” has given me renewed hope as I watch how they are making progress at the personal level as well as at a systemic level.  Each member does their own thing, some are inside the system, some fully outside and others such as myself are working a bit in both worlds.

Join me Today as I Discuss…

  • Yes I am still a minarchist but have no further need to debate anarchists
  • You really can make a change at the state level
    • Over 12 State Reps are Freestaters
    • Many more backed by the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance
    • Over 1,000 people have moved as part of the FSP
  • Competing Currencies are Alive and Well
    • Lots of AOCS currency was in place
    • I understand bitcoin a lot better now
    • Shire Silver is onto something
    • TSP Copper will be back soon with even more options
  • People are waking up
    • Photography and video are making LEOs accountable
    • The local/real/etc food movement is hitting a critical mass
    • Many Free Staters were really taken in by “modern survivalism”
    • People in the FSP have each others back – BIG TIME
  • The impact on me
    • I likely won’t ever move to NH, but it could happen
    • My determination to fight is stronger than ever
    • My receptiveness to competing ideas is more open than ever
    • My view on currency isn’t different, it has however, expanded
    • The FSP is not “sponsored by” TSP
    • I will be back in NH next year

Resources for today’s show…

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35 Responses to Episode-849- Liberty is Alive and Well

  1. I was just curious why you flew into Boston for the long drive home. None of our business of course, but it seemed odd. Forgive me for being behind listening to TSP, I can’t get my new laptop to realize my nano ipod mp3 player is plugged into it. Don’t know why yet. If anyone can help, please!

    • Modern Survival

      @Cryptozoic

      It was only a 55 minute drive to Nasua NH from Boston. If I flew into Manchester it would have been more convenient but the flight times available blew. We would have gotten in very late and back very late as well.

  2. @Jack,

    Wow, the prospect of non-prepper Libertarians adopting Modern Survivalism is pretty exciting. I think Modern Survivalists are pretty much Libertarians already.
    Imagine what would happen in our Country if the “population” of Modern Survivalism grew with that sort of bump.

    In regards to Competing ideas amongst Libertarians. If we (libertarians) are honest, is there any reason to EVER fear them? Let’s say that their ideas are what happens–why would I care, if it adheres to libertarian ideals? An inherent libertarian idea or system inherently does not harm me.

    I don’t have disagreements with progressives because I care what they think–it is because their ideas are trying to force something on me that I do not want. Not so amongst libertarians. So, as you say–imagine the benefits of openly and honestly exchanging ideas if there wasn’t the spectre of oppression and coercion hanging over it.

  3. Hi Jack,

    For a quick webshop: I bet your web-savvy enough to set it up. There is an awesome open-source package called osCommerce, which is a standalone webshop application. Just upload it to your webhost, head over to the domain address and the install wizard will show up.

    If you like a CMS integrated solution: You can setup a simple Joomla site and include VirtuaMart in it, which is a pretty complete e-commerce solution. You could also look into Drupal with Ubercart.

    All have lot’s of configration options and turn-key solutions for checkout and payment.

  4. Hey Jack,

    I found your show through my interest in gardening and homesteading, and I’ve become a huge fan.

    But you have definitely gotten me interested in the libertarian cause and world view. I come from a very liberal background, and while some of those views remain for me, some of them have been proven to be a big flop. I must say you are the first person I’ve heard explain the libertarian views so clearly, elequently and with an open mind. Alot of them make complete sense to me, and I can completely agree with them.

    I have spent many hours considering your views on politics, government, economics and all the other topics you cover on your show. When I consider my liberal upbringing and the libertarian views that I’ve heard on your show, the main question I always end up with is:

    “What should be the appropriate role of government in the lives of citizens?”

    Lets just assume for a minute (a very big assumption) that the governent is theoretically capable of spending tax dollars moderatly efficiently and without corruption. I know it’s far feched, but I want a theoretical answer first, before moving on to reality…

    For example: We learn on your show to stay healthy instead and taking a preventive approach to medical care, instead of having to become a frequent user of expensive medical systems. This is certainly good advice, but nobody can doubt that we still do also need medical systems. Shouldn’t the government have some role in supplying, financing or regulating those systems? Again, I’m asking you to suspend your vision of reality for a moment.

    I’m interested to hear your thoughts (and all the community’s) on that question.

    Best Regards,
    Alon

    • Re: should government role in supplying, financing, or regulating medical systems?

      Hell no, no, and no.

      There. I said it. Now its OK to let you past go.

      • Hi Mark,

        First of all, thank you for your answer. In some ways I have let go of my “liberal past”, in other ways I have not. Lets just say I certainly couldn’t be defined by Dem/Rep definitions anymore, and my Dad (RIP) might be rolling over in his grave if he heard me talk lately :-).

        But I need a more detailed answer than yours. Can you envision (and describe to me) how the medical system would work for the customer/buyer?

        For example
        1 – Should the government license the practice of physicians as they do now? That certainly is government regulation, burocracy, possibly over reaching their authority.

        2 – Lets say there is a shortage of nurses in a given state or metro area. Should the government try to increase the number of nurses by encourage young people to study nursing? For example by partially subsidizing (with our tax money) their tuition, or in any other way?

        Again, I purposely (for the moment) want to leave out the discussion about if the government is ever even capable of doing these things without corruption, or at a reasonable level of efficiency or chance of success. At the moment I’m interested in the theoretical libertarian answer, we can get to the likelyhood of success part later.

        Thanks,
        Alon

        • @Alon,

          I’d be happy to give you my opinions.

          1: Well, again, if there is any licensing to do, it would be at the State Level. I think having a uniform set of standards for things like Medical Doctors is actually useful, but this could be accomplished via a professional organization. Again, it would be Fraud for such an organization to falsify qualifications, and at that point government would play a role in prosecuting fraud.

          2: I have a harder stance there. My answer is definitely not. The free market will provide all the motivation necessary either to attract nurses to areas of need (supply and demand) or through people going to where medical services are in good supply. It can work either way, without any government interaction.

          The problem is, when government interjects itself (assuming efficiency and absence of its own interest), there are unintended consequences, because doing so is inherently distorting market action, which is far more effective at balancing itself than “planned” economic systems could ever be.

          Could government action address the acute problem? Yes, but what is seldom (if ever) taken into consideration is the damage they do elsewhere by taking a given action.

          My view is that the government’s rightful role is not to “correct” what the market has naturally determined.

          The answer to most of these questions will probably have the same underlying reasoning–that is a small group of central planners is an inferior force compared to true free market determinations.

    • @Alon,

      Greetings. As a member of this and the larger libertarian community, I say in answer to your question that the appropriate role of government is to protect the rights of its citizens. That’s why it exists. Naturally, one has to understand the difference between a “right” and a desire, or even a need. We might NEED many things, but it doesn’t mean we have a RIGHT to it.

      A modern society does need medical care systems. However, I would say, no, the government (specifically the National Government) does not have any role in financing or supplying medical care. As far as “regulating” the only role there in my view is in regards to fraud, which applies in the same fashion as it does in any interaction.

      In other words, the government as an arbiter of the law would prosecute fraud, breach of contract, etc. However, again, the Federal Government need not have any part in this. This minimal role would be handled properly by the States under their laws.

      One other comment. While I agree, it is wise for people to lead healthy lives, what someone else does isn’t really isn’t my business, or responsibility.

      • Hi Cam,

        Great answer, thanks.

        I definately agree with your comments about the Federal government involvement. The part about prosecuting fraud, breach of contract, etc also makes complete sense to me.

        Same about other people’s health not being my business or responsibility.

        What about the examples I gave above to Mark?

        Thanks,
        Alon

      • Well said, KAM!

    • The only way the government can supply health care and finance its regulation or any other aspect of government is thorough violent coersion. Before you say it isn’t violent ask yourself how many people would pay taxes if they didn’t fear the government showing up at their homes to forcibly put them in jail. So I believe in any situation you should always ask yourself is it just for the government to forcibly (literally at gun point) steal one persons life (work and time) to give to another.

    • Voluntary Joe

      Good and sincere questions. If you’d like to discuss them further, please look me up on facebook. I don’t find this comment section to be conducive to long drawn out conversations, but I would love to hash it out in a better setting. :)

      http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002165683620

  5. Glad you liked NH!

    Something to keep in mind for people considering moving, the property tax isn’t that bad relatively, espescially if homesteading is your eventual goal. NH has substantial homestead rights, including property tax relief under a certain income.

    I was one of the first 1000 to make the move, as it was easy coming from MA. I still work in MA and get double-whacked by both the property taxes and mass income taxes.. plus commuting expenses… but if my house was a few miles further south, it probably would have cost me an extra 100-150k.

    The plan is to move further up where real estate is even cheaper, once we no longer depend on the Boston income.

    • I bought my land in Maine, I didn’t really consider buying land in NH due to the property taxes, though I like NH for various reasons. I would think the NH property tax wouldn’t be a great thing once you reach retirement either.

      I have a condo in Mass.

  6. On cameras, one of the things that agents of authority seem to be forgetting, is there is a diffrence between a request, and a demand/order.

    To continue with Jack’s example of someone on his proerpty telling you that you can’t film being rubbish, If I was there, and I *asked you not to film me, that is a request and not an order. I would prefer that you don’t film me, but that is not binding on you, beyond curtisory. However that request also makes it incumbant on me to be aware of your cameras and try not to get in the frame.

    Order = nondiscresionary.
    Request = “Please don’t, If you don’t mind”

    • Modern Survival

      @Entity, correct though let me add. IF it is PRIVATE property and I tell you no film and you say no and it is MY PRIVATE property and I say okay then GET THE F OFF my property and if you don’t leave I and “my boyz” remove your ass, that is entirely in my rights and quite constitutional.

  7. Mark in Colorado

    Hi Jack,

    I am a Computer Programmer / Web Developer by trade (10 years exp.), and familiar with a few different platforms and frameworks. I would be very happy to help you out in anyway possible. I am currently an MSB member and I’m sure we could come to an arrangement on a trade of services: My skills in exchange for a 2 year (or whatever we agree upon) extension of my MSB membership. I have been a daily listener since 2009 and have gotten so much from the show in that time, that I’d love to give back if I can. I am also very interested in the alt currency movement ever since I got my TSP copper rounds (you may remember, I was passing a few out by your booth in Denver, at the SRE). Anyway, my email should come through with this post, and if you are interested, shoot me an email, with contact info and how you’d prefer to communicate, and we can go from there.

    Hope to hear back
    Mark

  8. Jack, just listened to today’s PC. Thank you for talking a bit about the gear shop and the crap that happened to us in Southern California. I’ve found that since I have come to Idaho, the shipping issues have ENTIRELY stopped (we’ve done about a dozen test shipments to see how this would work). However, being separated and trying to get the house situation settled has been too much of a burden to do separately together AND run a successful shop. I appreciate your kind words, and your understanding in how tough this entire situation has been.

    For what it’s worth, I got here to Idaho about 3 weeks ago. I will probably see Rich (TW) in late April or early May (a few weeks after we close on our house), and then not again until February of next year due to budget constraints. The stress of being that separated from the spouse you have never taken leave from in the past 8 and a half years continues to be the most difficult thing I have ever done.

  9. Jack,
    I don’t know if you know this but the thing you referred to at minute 50:00 is call the hegelian dialectic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

  10. This was a pump it up show! Jack, I will be all over the metal shop when it opens.

    If anyone is interested here is a really good interview with one of the guys from bitcoin. http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2011/04/andresen_on_bit.html

  11. Good show! I think your right to stay where your property tax is low and sales tax is the only concern. In western new york we have high property tax, high sales tax, and limited freedom.

  12. Great show. Glad to have heard you (for the first time!) at liberty forum.

  13. I know you won’t answer bc I heard your answer, … what do you think of Larken Rose? I found him posted on a forum.

    Larken Rose – Free Your Mind Conference 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bCz9gcvMfk

    Libertopia – Larken Rose 10-22-11
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnfH8ttsd58

    These are dry but good.
    http://www.gnosticmedia.com/?s=larken+rose

    • Voluntary Joe

      I really enjoyed Larken on Irvin’s podcast. I’d have bought The Iron Web long ago if he simply offered the audio as a download.

  14. Jack, if you move to N.H, I could have a good reason to visit. I think it’s only a 10hr drive from PEI

  15. I think the Appleseed Project and Oathkeepers are good choices Jack. I think you should have “four” advocacy sponsor slots.

    I think the fourth should be agricultural. Gardening. Etc. Not sure if there is a site that promotes gardening on that level. But I think it is equally as important, because the man who can feed himself is free. (Learned that somehere.)

    • Modern Survival

      @Jason the Saj,

      The question is whom? I guess I could give it to AgriTrue when it launches but that seems VERY self serving. Perhaps the Permaculture Institute or Seed Savers the issue is neither seems to want to be part of THIS community. Free State Project is, they are involved with what we do at TSP, I was the most requested speaker at their event.

      Apple Seed does this too, Michael Adam has been on TSP and will be again. Apple Seed Instructors tell people about TSP all the time. Hell one group even put TSP logos on all the in house 10/22s.

      Same with Oathkeepers. Stewart Rhodes has been on TSP, will come back any time I ask him to. They tell their people to prep and cite us as a resource.

      So in this I want real solid community members.

  16. Voluntary Joe

    Thanks for giving us anarchists a fair shake, Jack. I really appreciate it. :)

  17. Great show! P.s. Reading this on my phone, love the mobile site! What was the short link to save me some typing in the future?

  18. Meeting you in person and hanging out with youand debating the “Crazy Canadian” lady was a huge Liberty Energy Boost!

    Just know that IF you and Dorothy and the pups did decide to give NH a population increase you would have a friend and Brother here to help you in any way you needed! The Free State Project would love to have you!

    Tony L,
    Farmington NH
    MSB Member
    FreeStater
    Oathkeeper
    Zombie Squad

  19. It is so exciting to have you covering this Jack! I found out about FSP about a month ago after a long search (3 years) for the right place to relocate.

    I am now moving to New Hampshire this fall and although I am not one to sign up for membership over the Internet, I will be looking up the folks with the FSP when I get there. The most attractive part of the whole plan is a ‘built’ in community.

    Community was the one thing that kept me looking because I am a single woman and wanted to settle somewhere with like-minded people who wanted a strong community, not a hole in the ground where everyone is suspicious of everyone around them. Always loved New England but had the wrong impression that everyone there was liberal and anti-gun. I finally feel like I have found a real place to call home. Thank you for sharing your experience, it reinforced my belief that this is the exact right move, time and place for me.

  20. @Jason & Jack,

    Just listened to the podcast today (late to the party, as usual), and when Jack was mentioning the “Project Advocacy” spots, the first one that came to my mind was the Urban Farming Guys.

    I know that by some standards they are still somewhat in their infancy, and their food production is done on a much more “micro” level than many traditional homesteads, but I really LOVED the TSP interview with them last fall.

    I love their sense of community empowerment, and their commitment to teaching, and I just feel like their movement really does offer hope to a lot of people in our country.

    At any rate, another suggestion to perhaps mull over…

  21. Nice episode and I’m glad to hear you’ve made more direct contact with the FSP.

    As an anarchist myself, I agree that there’s not much utility in minarchists and anarchists arguing so much, the time and energy is better spent elsewhere. While the distinction between the two is in fact a matter of kind, not merely degree, in the practical sense from where we are they are a long way off in the same direction. If we ever managed to get to a truly minarchist state, then something like a natural complete withering away of all state apparatus may evolve quite naturally.

    Also, it’s worth repeating because it is still routinely misunderstood, libertarian anarchists are not opposed to “authority” or hierarchy, arbitration (courts/law) or security internal or external. It opposes the monopolized institutional provision of these functions.

    Anarchy and the Law is an excellent resource for anyone more curious. There are of course many other books as well that cover the subject from a variety of perspectives.

    http://www.amazon.com/Anarchy-Law-Political-Economy-Choice/dp/1412805791/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331851724&sr=8-1