Episose-1384- A LEO Tells Us About His Side of Current Issues

Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) have come under a lot of fire recently.  Some deserve it, some deserve to be fired and hell some deserve do do jail time, still I feel most LEOs do their jobs with honor.  Today we have an active LEO who will discuss the view from  his side.  Explain how to interact with police intelligently and frankly admit that what some of his fellow officers have done ranges from wrong to down right criminal.

We will call this officer Tim O’Brian though that isn’t his real name.  He must use a false name to avoid potentially reprisal from his department for speaking candidly.  Given that nothing he said here was really out of line or even harsh to his own department, one must feel that his need to hide his real name is actually part of the problem.

Tim and I have a great discussion that goes almost two hours and I really didn’t realize that during the interview at all until right at the end.  He is a good guy, doing a hard job.  Tune in as we discuss everything from open carry activism to marijuana legalization to lawful vs unlawful detention and more.

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42 Responses to Episose-1384- A LEO Tells Us About His Side of Current Issues

  1. I can’t wait. Now you need to find a teacher who wants to talk to you…

    • Modern Survival

      Plenty want to talk, none I wish to hear. Why?

      All of them want to defend teachers (as in all teachers) and the system. They want to blame the system and say it is the system not the teacher then defend the system in the next breath.

      I have had some teachers on by the way, like Jen Mendez. No active ones though. What I seem to see is that when teachers do finally open their eyes to reality they stop teaching at least in public schools.

      Notice in this interview Tim says some cops are bad, when I say some need either a job washing dishes at Denny’s or perhaps some jail time, he doesn’t defend them, he acknowledges the issue.

      People say cops have each others backs but I find teachers are worse about it! They will bitch about the system but when you do the same they defend it. They will bitch about a coworker but when you do the same they defend them. Good and smart teachers defend the idiotic behavior of other teachers even more than good cops defend shitty cops.

      I’ll tell you that I think it is “equivalency dementia” again! Cops risk their lives, so do soldiers, etc. There are people that have jobs that at least may require them at some point to act heroically. Most don’t see themselves as hero because they know they do have heroes among their ranks and know what a real hero is. Those who are hero are generally very quiet about such things and feel someone did more and deserves the praise. This again is because such men and women really are in dangerous situations and really do have risks and really do save lives.

      Now society has marketed that Teachers are heroes just by being a Teacher. This is like saying one is a hero because one say has a job as a computer programmer or say in marketing. It just isn’t true. Teachers like all people want to believe they are special and society has marketed what they want to hear to them, “you are heroes, you are doing the most important work on the planet, teachers are our best and brightest”.

      Don’t get me wrong teaching is important but our “best and brightest”, sorry I prefer that such people work on curing cancer and feeding the planet. We can settle for competent and personable when it comes to teaching 2nd grade I think!

      Teachers get put into the same category as fireman, LEOs, soldiers, etc in political marketing and start to believe their own bullshit about such things. However, as it is just a job they don’t see heroism around them and don’t really know what it looks like. Hence they think teaching times tables and fractions is being a hero. They then behave the way they THINK soldiers and cops do. They think as a solider I for instance see every other solider as a hero. But of course since I have actually served with real heroes I know I am not, so I know all are not.

      This same shit happens when rowdy women take a ladies night and go to a male strip club. I know it seems weird I know this but I worked security part time for a night club long ago when I needed money. Once a month they did a ladies night with male dancers from 8-10 then opened the door to guys. Get the women reved up type of thing.

      I had more damn trouble from women then guys on those nights. They would go fing nuts, carry on, act like morons, etc. I would talk to some and they would say things like, “what men go to strip places all the time and do this stuff but it isn’t okay for women to do”. While I haven’t spent much time in strip bars of any kind being in sales you have clients and you take them where they want etc. What I would tell these women is NO MEN DO NOT ACT LIKE THIS IN A STRIP CLUB. Frankly they would be thrown out with EXCESSIVE FORCE if they did and the only reason you are not having that done to you is you are a woman.

      You see when people decide to join a “group” they act like they THINK said group acts. This can be subconscious or conscious and full or part time.

      The women with the male dancers were doing it part time and consciously. Teachers do it full time and mostly subconsciously. If you ask a teacher if he or she is a hero most will say no, but ask them if teachers are heroes and they have a hard time saying no, especially if you ask that first. If you market something long enough people buy into it.

      Ask most people on the street are teachers heroes, they will say yes. Either because they believe this bullshit or because they know that is what they are supposed to say. So I think this defend all teachers and defend the school myopic loyalty must be due to this dynamic.

      • I think the hero thought is because they put themselves above the parent or at least dimiss parents. Education is the most important thing and they believe it can’t happen without them. In fact, its political to instill in you that you really don’t know what you are doing with your kids because now you need the state. They believe without them society would fall apart into uneducated lawlessness. They are the reason you don’t need more cops and hey they create the cops right, without them no one would be qualified. Then if a kid doesn’t succeed (say 50% don’t graduate) they say well we saved 50% what have you done :) Society, hero worships because somewhere some teacher guided someone and that is why. But really, when I think back there aren’t many teachers that I can that person really changed my life. There is only ever one or two. If they were all heroes you would remember them all.

        We need to emphasize parents who teach their children to be adults as heroes then, because they create the next heroes by this logic. Beat your kid or neglect them and that kid will not be the next drug addict or shoot up the next school, not the next Steve Jobs. We do so much to crush parenting in this society :(

      • Jack – great show and completely agree with the statement re: teachers. I have many friends (well, now ex friends) I went to school with who became teachers and think that their feet should be kissed by all around because they have to deal with so much more that everyone else and don’t make enough money. I can rant on about that one but I’m no longer friends with these people because, like you, I’ve told them that their mechanic is more of a “hero” than the people in their profession. He saves lives by doing his job properly, they churn out good little minons.

        • I’ve had similar experiences when discussing teaching and the school system with teachers. I’m very passionate about alternative education methods vs. public schools, so when I argue that public schools are terrible, and that the system is broken at best, they get very upset and can’t understand why I would even say such things!

          I am usually a few deep when I bring it up, so the liquid courage might be to blame for my tact and my wife’s friends thinking I’m wrongly opinionated when it comes to the public education system.
          “How dare he!” they say.
          “Doesn’t he know what we have to go through?!”
          “You don’t know anything [about public schools] because you went to a private school, and you’re not a teacher.”

          I suppose I can see how I might seem arrogant and opinionated, bashing the system when I haven’t experienced it since the 7th grade when I went off to a private military catholic (uggh…) high school. But facts are facts. And trying to argue to teachers in the public school system that they’re not superheroes and that when a student is “good” means that he just conforms easily, whereas a “bad” student might have some light left in him that they haven’t extinguished yet, is futile.

        • Modern Survival

          You get a much better kink in the armor if you get them to tell you how bad the system is first.

          Oh you are a teacher, must be a great job but really tough at times?

          Oh I see so why don’t you change the lesson plan?

          What do you mean you can’t?

          Really? Tell me more?

          By this point they have made half your points for you, but don’t be shocked when you say something like “sounds like we should complete change the system to one of greater accountability and individual choice” if they go right back in the bunker. But at that point you just say but I thought you said, da da, da da, da da.

          Then listen to the excuses and realize how F’d that system is and realize that the people inside it know it but won’t admit it because the truth is MOST FEAR THE CURE.

  2. I Totally forgot about this when we were talking drug testing the other day, but I lived in Arizona for a while and had a friend who was with the Sedona Fire Dept. and when they tried to institute drug test several fire fighters sued the the dept because they felt it was a violation of their right to privacy and I don’t remember if they won or if the S.F.D. just decided it wasn’t worth all the legal hassle but in any case they didn’t ever institute drug testing in the Sedona fire Dept because of it, it’s been 10 years since I lived there so I don’t know if they have changed since then, but back then they didn’t

  3. Jack, I live in Washington… all the road signs for the 4th read “Drive high get a DUI” so the answer to your question of can you get a DUI for MJ is “yes”. The tool unfortunately is a blood draw, its pretty invasive. But having a drivers license in WA basically says you have to submit to that (well a test) or go to jail.

  4. I sure wish people who claim to be 2nd amendment supporters would really support the legal use of the 2nd amendment. I have heard so many people look down on open carry or groups that are working within the law to raise awareness to the truth of law that it sickens me. I agree there will be libtards who will feel scared when they see a gun, but what should happen is the POLICE who are suppose to protect and SUPPORT our communities, should be teaching those people that what they are seeing is 100% legal, that there is nothing to fear, and that it is also there right. Educate the mass’s, do not persecute the lawful. Explain to people they do not have a “right” to not be afraid, they do not have a “right” to keep people from using there rights even if they do not like them. I would love to see the police do there job by teaching people about the law, about there rights and about the truths of life today. I can not find a single shooting that has happened lately were the criminal walked around with the gun in open view before he got to were and who he was shooting. Criminals hide there intent, criminals don’t want people to know what they have for weapons because that gives people time to react/call the cops. Education is the key and when cops fail to do there part to inform the libtards they fail to do there job.

    • Sorry *protect and SERVE.

    • I completely understand your point and agree with it, but a lot of these open carry activists down here in Texas have been walking into Restaurants full of people carrying an AK or AR to show they have a right to do it and that’s just stupid and it scares the hell out of people, in return the businesses now make it against their rules for anyone to carry a gun in their place of business concealed or other wise, so what point were they making doing shit like that? None, they were acting totally stupid and trying to get YouTube views and what will end up happening is Texas will pass a law making it illegal for long gun open carry, When we are trying now to get open carry law passed on handguns and it hurts us more than helps!
      Really it makes me wonder if some of the open carry activists are really just undercover Libs trying to undermine what we are trying to accomplish with the open carry handgun law….It’s always been legal to open carry long guns in Texas so why now are people coming out of the woodwork walking the streets making a big deal out of it?

      • I agree, Target just created a stir because of the open carry and Starbucks banned guns in their store. While I do support it, at the same time it looks like the activism is having the opposite effect. It also allows the media to paint it in “only these crazy people have guns” light.

        • NONE of these were “BANS.” They posted REQUESTS that no one carry a firearm; there is no ban, no matter what EveryMom Demands A Lil’ Action wants to claim as a “victory.” These stores have all officially stated they will follow state law (like they always did), but when the provocabots stirred up a shitstorm and got the Bloombabes jumping on their backs, they had to do *something.* This request was their way of “addressing” the topic without doing much of anything. This was not their fight but they got unwillingly forced into it and they have a business to keep afloat.

        • Yep, that is why I said “stir”… it’s still not a positive reaction. Unless I’m wrong Starbucks did ban, we quit going their so not even sure if its posted at their stores. If Open Carry people want to create reactions they are doing a great job, just not sure they are bringing it to the forefront in a positive light.

      • What is the good of having rights if you can’t use them? In fact can you even claim you have a right when you use it, end up having people freak out and call the cops, then spend an hour talking with police? Rights must be exercised just like a muscle. You can keep hiding your guns in a closet and not upset anyone, but don’t be surprised when you try to use your right……..and you find out you do not have one.

        • Like I said I don’t disagree with you but some of the antics have hurt the cause, especially walking into crowded places with AK’s and AR’s.

        • One other thing on rights, it’s one thing to have a right but what purpose does it serve walking down the street carrying an AR? Those of us raised all our lives with guns know they they are a tool with a time and a place. Just walking down the street with an AK because you can, is not a reason in my book…It’s outrageous, I never in my life walked around with my deer rifle strapped to my back just because I could, I had my deer rifle strapped to my back in deer season in the deer woods where it was a useful tool and no one has even started trying to take anyone’s rights away, there has been no talk of banning guns in Texas or taking away our right to open carry long guns, but if they keep this crap up you can bet there will be public outcry for it to happen…Just because a few people want to prove it’s their right to do so, in the end if it hurts us all…What good did it do Exercising your rights? If they take them away?

        • Modern Survival

          I have many rights including say free speach but if I use that right strictly to be disruptive and annoying in public guess what, I end up in violation of the law for disruption of the peace or breach of peace.

          I grew up with guns, everyone had a gun, people kept them in old school gun racks in the window of a truck. I sat on my porch and shot black birds and starlings for my old broke down bird dog wit a 22. I killed my first deer with a bow at 12. I carry now, I have guns in my home, in my vehicle at times, etc. I am one of the biggest advocates for right to carry and right to own in the nation, now how many fing times do you think I strapped on an AK or AR and window shopped at a local strip mall? Um, zero!

          Like I said these activists are being idiots. In the words of Chandler Bing, “you think you’re helping but your not”. The only thing they have accomplished is a slew of new local ordinances against such types of open carry. They give ammo to the left and help make a case for stricter laws, etc.

          Going somewhere with a gun generally is acceptable even if the cops are called. You are moving along bothering no one and clearly going about your business, sure no problem. This doesn’t apply to a Target or Walmart parking lot or loitering in an intersection. It is being done solely to provoke a response, it is moronic and pointless and very counterproductive.

          You can say it is legal to you are blue in the face, the facts are that it is creating NEW GUN LAWS, that I don’t think is anything any of us want.

        • Let me modify your question into a more pertinent one — What is the good of having rights if the way you choose to use them ends up getting them taken away from you? Handguns are not battle weapons; people only carry them because they’re compact and convenient to easily carry while they’re doing their day to day business… and they want to have a weapon available if, God forbid, there should be a need.

          On the other hand, since rifles are unwieldy and inconvenient to carry, people only carry one when they intend to USE it for something, and since there’s no deer in a store or restaurant, people are going to assume they intend to use it for ill purposes. I certainly would think that.

          One should be carrying a rifle because they intend to shoot it, not just because they can or because they want to draw attention to themselves. You want to gain open carry for pistols, you write, call, and petition your legislators and judges and get the issue addressed legally. Or you schedule an open long gun carry rally in a park or somewhere with advance notice to police so they can see that you’re law abiding citizens peacefully assembling to make a point. Carrying an AR or AK or POS SKS with $2K worth of TacToys on it into the local KwickeeMart DOES NOT HELP.

  5. On the ‘open carry demonstrations’..

    IMO, if you’re carrying around a gun, it needs to be for a REASON. A gun is a tool. If you’re carrying around a tool for no reason, its odd.

    Example:
    I have a hatchet. I carry the hatchet into the mall to demonstrate my ‘right’ to own and carry a hatchet. Mall security and/or the police are called. I’m belligerent about my ‘rights’. Seriously. WTF.

    If you don’t find a hatchet threatening.. imagine someone carrying a machete.. or a sword sheathed on their back. Or carrying a five pound sledgehammer into a Starbucks.

    Yes, you’re ‘free’ to be a moron and freak people out by acting in a manner they find threatening.. but don’t be surprised if this doesn’t convince them of the righteousness of your cause.

    Seriously. Take them to the range.

    I’m SUPER pro 2nd amendment. But if I’m in an environment where neither I, nor anyone else has a gun, and someone walks in with one.. I start watching them VERY CLOSELY.. and it isn’t out of a sense of solidarity.

    I’ll wander over and feel them out.. but its not because my first thought isn’t ‘cool.. someone demonstrating their first amendment rights!’

    In fact, its exactly the opposite.. because I know all the anti-gun types I know will use this as another reason to dig in their anti-gun heels.

    To reiterate.. its a tool. If you don’t need THAT tool, in that environment.. then the only reason you’re carrying is to PROVOKE A RESPONSE.

    And when you PROVOKE a response.. it isn’t positive.

    A CONCEALED handgun is a perfectly effective tool to have with you for personal protection while you fetch your vente mocha frappe.. leave the M-249 in the car.

    • Hehe seems we had the same thought at the same time LOL

      • Yup. I should have just waited.. ;-)
        Sorry for all the typos..

        When people are looking for ‘crazy people’.. they’re looking for people acting differently or inappropriately in a given situation.

        Shotgun at the ready? Perfectly normal if you’re hunting pheasant.. not so much if you’re picking your daughter up from a birthday party.

        Running chainsaw? If you’re trimming trees, makes perfect sense.. walking thru the mall, not so much.

        Barrett Light Fifty, perfect sense if you’re.. well, you get the idea.

    • I think this is best understood by viewing in context.

      Like you indicate “where nobody else is doing” is a clear sign of doing an action (and people interpreting it) out of context. At an open carry rally, that is the context, and it makes sense.

      You’re also describing it as a tool (appropriately). By some people’s beliefs (right or wrong) you should ALWAYS have this tool on you. I personally do not think its a wise thing to have broadcasted, but that’s me. Taking this tool into context its purpose is to A. kill (injure) people first and foremost, B. defend oneself, by using A. Most people with a brain understand this context. You can’t say the same with all the other tools you mentioned. I could carry around a big rock for the same purpose, but that would be odd.

      “And when you PROVOKE a response.. it isn’t positive.”
      This is the definition of “activism”. This is an opinionated statement, but I’m in agreement in general, but provoking a response does not seem to be always a negative. (depends on context, and the person). You could just holding a sign saying “ask me about our rights to carry” which is also provoking a response, but I don’t think anybody would consider that negative. Consider two people having an anti-abortion booths. One with graphic images (begging to drive ordinary in to wacko status), versus one that just has maybe a single textual message that people can willingly come up and discuss their view point. I think its more of a question of tactfully getting your “argument” across.

      I think in general people just don’t like others presenting arguments to them that they didn’t engage in, nor started (which could include a “bible thumper” or a “2nd ammendment person getting” people to look at their gun on their hip).

      • An open carry rally would be interpreted differently by the individual than a single individual or a small group of individuals.

        Basically, herd response.

        By this definition (and it may be true in general) activism consists of annoying people with your opinion until they either a) let out a deep sigh and go along with you or b) pass a law to limit your ‘activism’

        I do believe that passionate demonstration of your beliefs can result in ‘conversions’. But those types of conversions are from people that are ‘on the fence’ with no strong opinion one way or another.

        For someone OPPOSED your demonstration likely just causes them to dig in their heels even more.

        So, I’m not arguing AGAINST promoting your rights.. I’m arguing against INEFFECTIVE promotion.

        Because my brain is always agreeing with both sides of the argument, I do have to say, that there IS a reason to open carry. Which is for a sense of personal empowerment (I’m not going to be afraid of THEM, I am going to demonstrate that I don’t fear them.)

        But for those who are trying to promote.. use the gun range.

        Example: I have a Canadian neighbor who is FAR FAR left (no one should own guns EVER! What’s wrong with you Americans!) from whom I’ve received dozens of forwarded news stories attached to emails filled with incredulity and horror, that anyone would even THINK of owning a weapon.

        Punchline.. he just bought a shotgun.. on the 4th of July.

        How? Trap and skeet range.

        All of my clever pro gun arguments had no effect, but an hour or two of dusting clays and he was hooked.

        But then there’s a downside to the story.. he hired an instructor. Everything was fine until after the class, the instructor turned to me (who he knew to be pro-gun) and said ‘I’m going to take a sniper course so that if anything like the Bundy Ranch happens again I can deal with the FEDs’

        *sigh*
        If he hadn’t already bought the shotgun.. that probably would have been the last time he stepped on the range.

        Seriously, if your trying to convert, keep the politics off the gun range.. even if that’s the reason you’re there. Those kinds of arguments go down much more smoothly when you have a beer in your hand rather than a gun (How do you think he ended up on the range in the first place?).

        • “Punchline.. he just bought a shotgun.. on the 4th of July.
          How? Trap and skeet range.”

          That was extremely unexpected, and fucking hilarious. I know jack has talked about this SO MANY TIMES. I think my wife’s twin sister it was the same way. She wasn’t “that negative” but she was probably meh, then she went to the range and wanted a 9mm the next day.

          “like the Bundy Ranch happens again I can deal with the FEDs’”
          I read this and said “oh jesus christ……”. Look you can think that, but keep it in your head. It’s like my mom acting all tough and posturing because she now “reads the news” (worst thing ever).

          My moto is “I don’t care till I see the tanks ON MY road”.

  6. Good show Jack.

    Thank you Tim O’Brian for your insight. I am a believer that the Thin Blue Line keeps the civil in civilization and I appreciate that we have people that are willing to do the job well. You seem to be one of the good guys.

  7. sirlordbaltimore

    Jack,
    I have been waiting on your comments on the TX open carry demonstrations. It is something I have found perplexing. I have a CCW. I carry in certain settings…but honestly never thought about slinging the AR across my back to go grab an ice cream with my lady.
    Im sorry these people are doing more harm than good. I get the impression that many of these fellas spend more time in their moms basement playing Call of Duty than they do at the range. For that matter interacting with other humans at all.
    Sorry, scaring the crap out of the general public does very little to advance the cause of liberty
    Lastly. Ever get the feeling that for some of them its just the next piercing or tattoo??? Its like hey look at me Im a billy bad ass. I’ve got a nasty black rifle. Just saying.

  8. Hi Jack,

    great podcast as always. I also wanted to share something that happened in my town of police misconduct. a guy video taped a officer on a stop because he saw him throw a bike rider down (which he didnt get on tape but is the reason he decided to start recording). well when the officer saw him recording he flipped out and you can see what happened on the video.

    I will say ithe Police chief so far has sided with the person recording and is disappointed with the officer. I will also say this same police chief interestingly is AGAINST police lapel pin recording. Im not sure if its a budget issue or what.
    just curious on some thoughts you may have and the commenters.

    Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQDwD7zHECI

    story: http://www.redding.com/news/local-news/man-spreads-video-of-alleged-redding-police-misconduct

    also i’ll add we have had 2 officer-involved-shootings in the last few weeks with the same dept. including this last week with 6 officers placed on administrative leave. (proticol) which in my opinion was a good shoot by the officers.

    here is that story: http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/man-shot-in-officerinvolved-shooting-identified/26813750

    you can imaging the opinions of locals which is mixed.

    Shasta Ron

  9. I’m pro-2nd amendment, long guns at a shopping mall are excessive. Frankly, I don’t want to see Law Enforcement carrying a M-4 or MP5 either. If they feel they should carry this, I really question my reason for being at the event. I don’t want to live in Mexico where Federal Policie forces are walking around a catwalk with the hardware. Seeing militarized police in London, and Spain really bothered me, and I don’t want it here. Most Starbucks, and Chipolte are in pretty secure areas, so I haven’t felt the need to carry a long arm. A man in bedouin dress with his AK 47, and his assault vest is going to make me nervous especially if the rifle goes into ready position. Be prudent.

  10. Jack, Washington state legalized recreational marijuana the same day as Colorado by a vote of the people. The first state licensed marijuana retail stores actually opened yesterday and there have been lines out the door ever since.

  11. So even after all the talk of the political movement to split and separate your enemy to win a battle, after all the talk about how the rub vs dem doesn’t work cause no one works together, you still choose to divide gun owners? I can not believe i just read this! You have seen the poor and rich turned on one another, you have seen the right put against the left, you have watched as they pull us apart so they can do as they please while we fight among ourselves…….and now your doing it too. In my opinion you should practice what you preach. United we stand, divided we fall. I have said my opinion and will now shut up.

    • Modern Survival

      @GotCox, you know what being told you are wrong isn’t about being politically split, I barely have the patience to respond to such drivel.

      Fighting amongst ourselves? The reason the D and R divide works so well is the Ds defend ALL Ds even the dumb ones because they fear the R is worse and the Rs defend all Rs because they fear the D is worse.

      Since at this point you have a child like grip on your version of what you have been led by youtube to believe is right and decent and holy it may be difficult for you to see clearly. So let me help you out, what just happened here is the opposite of that. Instead of gun advocates defending ALL gun advocates we pointed out that some among us are NOT HELPING and doing DUMB ASS SHIT. This is precisely the type of thing that kills off the false dichotomy.

      The dichotomy is enforced by entrenching camps in their own side to the level of the absurd so that you can polarize both sides. The democrat ends up defending the out right socialist and the republican the nut job TV preacher that claims God used 911 to punish America. If either side stood up and said, these people are NOT US and this NOT what we believe and WE DO NOT ENDORSE their behavior or ideas, the dichotomy would weaken and eventually fall off to being reasonable differences of opinion.

      In this instance people claiming to be “on our side” are doing dumb shit to the point of hurting “our side”. Unlike political drones many gun owners being of a more libertarian bent (as many pro gun republicans are politically pro gun, they don’t actually use or know jack shit about a gun) and think for themselves, we are willing to call dumb behavior what it is, dumb.

      You hear it all the time, “if most ___________ are good why won’t they condemn the _________s that are doing/saying X? Right?

      Well apparently real intelligent gun owners that get where we are trying to go with sensible open carry legislation are willing to say, no not everyone who is a “gun rights advocate” is doing good work or using their fucking brains.

      Again I have many rights but EVERY set of rights comes with an EQUAL set of responsibilities. One responsibility of open carry is to do so in a manner that is right based on common sense to the situation and with reasonable concern to not cause panic to others. I think I am wasting my time telling you this though because you are now a youtube programmed individual who has replaced one form of programming with another.

      I’ll try anyway. I think we both agree that say if I was going hunting and walking distance from where I hunt, walking down the road to do so is FINE given if I am in an open carry state for long guns. Same situation, I walk down that road OPEN CARRYING with my rifle held port arms, as cars go by I hold it out and show it to them and say to the driver in a happy sincere voice, hey check out my new gun, isn’t is awesome I am going hunting. This unless you are a mental midget is NOT OKAY.

      Hence with that we agree that the right to open carry still carries with it the right to responsibly carry within the situation. In the above the weapon is not pointed at the cars, the statement is true (I am going hunting) and no actual danger is caused (the muzzle is away and finger is not on the trigger) yet it is stupid and irresponsible behavior.

      Well bud, window shopping with your girl in a Target parking lot with an AK slung over your back is equally stupid. Yes the idiots who think a guy with malice will walk around advertising his gun are stupid too, that doesn’t make the activist less so.

      • Regardless of the opinion, you’re 100% correct in explanation of a dichotomy.

        It’s real simple. It’s the mentality of “you’re either with us or against us”. You’re either “for gun rights” or you’re “against gun rights”. You’re either for what democrats want, or your against it (therefore republican).

        I also think about talking about what’s appropriate versus legal really starts to push this topic way out of the false dichotomy arena and into being good humans. It’s like I don’t think drugs should be illegal, but that doesn’t mean I’m “for drugs”. I’m “for people making choices”.

  12. Great show Jack, and thanks Tim for being one of the thinkers instead of just a roided-out enforcer. As a retired L.A. County Deputy who worked for 3 different departments over 20+ years a couple of things came to mind as I listened.

    1. It is easy to get lost in the job, take it personally and forget that once that Bill of Rights is trampled on in the name of “we know he did it but can’t prove it”, or “stretching an arrest report”, it is lost for all next time. Hitler and those like him proved that. Better to let it go. Because there will be a day soon enough your bad guy will look at you from behind the bars anyway. It is an unseen karma that never seems to fail.

    2. You two did a “drive-by” touching (IMHO) on the root of today’s problems and bad public relations. The shift from “Andy from Mayberry” and “Adam 12″ to today’s treatment of the public as a potential “terrorist” happened the day after 9-11 with the implementation of the Department of Homeland Security playbook (that was already sitting on the shelf waiting for an “event”). Yes, DHS brought in the SLPC, Moussad and similar structured training doctrines after 9-11 and federalized all local law enforcement agencies. Usually by federal grants, cheap or free toys, and upper management indoctrination. So now almost every Chief and Sheriff and their line supervisors are lackeys for their DHS mob bosses. The street cops will act or not act as their department brass expects and tells them. The fix? Kick out the feds and return control to the locally accountable police Chief or Sheriff. Will that happen? I don’t think so. Too much money getting passed out.

  13. Collapse of common sense is always directly correlated to societal collapse. Divided elements radicalize in opposite directions and someone else inherits the future.

  14. Hey jack.
    I live in yakima Washington. Washington says you can carry up to an ounce on your person. It is legal to use marijuana in the privacy of your home or away from public areas. Use of a motor vehicle is considered DUI. However, they have to prove you are under the influence. For all the officer knows you could be on your way home from a dispensary. Body cams on the officers would show evidence that the person was acting suspicious.

  15. I had trouble hearing this guest with low pitched voice, almost sounded a bit muffled. My hearing isn’t good though.

  16. Thanks for the episode Jack. I am finding that the u.s. customs/border protection officers are complete assholes when I come back into the u.s. Just terrible attitudes, asking questions a million different ways trying to catch me in a lie, asking lots of personal questions I do not want to answer. What is the best way to deal with these guys?

    Based on limited research its seems that I can remain silent but it might cause more hassle than it is worth…

  17. Gary has it correct. Once the Feds subsidized local law enforcement and gave them their marching orders after 9/11, it all changed… mostly for the worst. Just like agriculture or anything else paid for and overseen by the United States Federal government. If they can’t tax it, they regulate it, if they can’t regulate it they criminalize it.

    Programs like asset auctions and CEDAP, multi-jurisdiction task forces, federal grants, they all play into regulating and arming LEOs for the purpose of maintaining a militarized control grid. This is no longer about ‘maintaining the peace’, it’s all war based scenario training and getting LEOs to understand that they are now soldiers in a war, rather than peacetime civilians paid and trained to keep the peace. Andy from Mayberry? He’s long gone. Try Darth Vader storm troopers.

    And as long as the good ones remain quiet and stand down, nothing will change. The good guys have to be public, speak up, and confront internal corruption. The IA isn’t going to do it. Politicians aren’t going to do it. The good guys, the LEADERS, have to be the ones to set the example. LEOs are supposed to be operating under the public trust, and that trust is being cracked and shaken more and more every day. The time will come when there is no more public trust at any level. I don’t think we want to visit that time period or its consequences.

  18. Jack – you made some interesting points about marijuana in the work place and open carry that I wanted to address as we are dealing with it here in CA.

    Marijuana – I work at a Fortune 500 company and we have offices in both LA and CO. We have a strict drug/alcohol policy and every employee is required to be tested after you accept the offer of employment (we also have a policy of drug testing if you display any behavior in the work place that would make your supervisor think you were drunk/high at work). We just went through a class by Legal that confirmed, even though Marijuana is “legal”, we as a company still have the right to not hire employees since it may effect their work and/or endanger others (ie driving, installations, etc).

    Open Carry – You mentioned on the show that if a law was passed that banned open carry they would have to be careful not to structure the ordinance in such a way that if you bought a shotgun and were walking out of the store, someone saw you and called the cops (assuming they were right there) they could arrest or question you based on the new ordinance. Well unfortunately due to the open carry idiots who ruined things for us here in CA, you may not walk around with any open rifle/pistol – period. When I go to the range, I cannot even take my rifle from my side door to my car in the driveway (15ft) without it being in a riflebag. When you purchase a gun at a store, it must leave in a bag/container/etc. Pistols must be in a locked container at all times outside of your house. A trunk is considered a lock container, however if you go to a public range and park on the street, if the pistol isn’t in a locked container as you walk from your car to the range or back again, you can be arrested/cited for that. I know people don’t want to hear about how ass backwards we’ve become in CA, but unless people see what’s happened here and how far it can go, it will be too late when it happens in your state/city.

    I do want to thank you for the shows. In the Spring, my wife and I will be selling or renting our house and going on the road for a year plus in a RV with our dogs to escape this state and find another state where we want to settle down. Your show was the spark in making that happen. Thank you again.

    • Modern Survival

      @Joe, on the work think, yes I know that is currently the case but how long until challenged.

      “Your honor I submit to you that my client Joe is a recreational user of marijuana and partakes on Fridays and Saturdays only and on Friday only after work hours in moderate amounts. I have expert testimony here from 97 medical experts that say with a full Sunday between his last use and Monday work he is just as clear and competent as if you yourself had a few glasses of red wine Saturday and now on this Monday, sit on the Bench and precede over this case. If you did have a drink or two this weekend I doubt it anyway effects your ability right now or the ability of anyone in this court room that had a few drinks over the weekend.

      My client has engaged in no illegal activity, he has no negative reviews of performance from his employer, he has never even been accused of being under the influence at work and due to a random test that shows residue of a completely LEGAL substance in his system this man is to be denied his employment? Is this the way we do things in America? Your honor, just because the residues of marijuana use remain in the blood for 30 days does not mean the intoxicating effects do. I mean if that were the case, hell no one would make any money on it! You smoke one joint on the 1st of the month and be toked for the month!

      This is silly and nonsensical that a grown and free man with an exceptional work record is to be dismissed with not a single negative component on his performance by a company he has loyally served for 9 years now.”

      Oh and it will be some poster child like that they run the first case with.

      Not to mention the day someone with a script for a legitimate disability is popped. Then the ADA applies, etc. What holds this back is only the Federal prohibition on pot, but that is going to die soon too.

  19. Hey Jack,

    I think it would be good to do a show about how the machine of the legal system is a crushing force that strips our rights daily in the name of “law enforcement”. It would be nice if you got Eddy Craig former Nacogdoches sheriff deputy from ruleoflawradio.com for an interview. We got the point of view from LEO O’Brian and how he does not even see that he should/need to have a warrant for searching a car, regardless of the SCOTUS opinions that have sided with gov and slowly stripped away our rights. I have read the Constitution it does not say “if you smell, see, or suspect you get to search.” You need to go before a judge and swear… We all know this. I understand O’Brian’s point of the the traffic stop leading to the stolen gun and other type arrests but this makes him a hammer and ALL OF US nails. Every stop has a presumption of guilt by the officer that we have committed some other crime and we are not free to leave until I prove I have no other offense than a traffic violation. It is better that ten guilty men go free than one innocent be imprisoned and it starts with first contact of the LEOs. Mr. Craig is very good in how LEOs should be following due process and your rights with those encounters according to the statutes and laws mostly in the area of the Motor Vehicle Code because this is where 90% of our contact with the law occurs. I think and I know you do too that these debates are important. Thanks for all you do Jack!

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