Episode -1733- Trevor Grice on Helping Children Deal with Bullying

Let's Trap Children in a Forced Society and See What Happens.

Let’s Trap Children in a Forced Society and See What Happens.

Trevor Grice is a licensed clinical psychologist who provides individual therapy and assessment services through a private practice setting in the Thumb of Michigan. Since starting his voyage on preparedness and sustainability with his wife and two sons.

Trevor has first hand experience on how this lifestyle can reduce anxiety and bring more happiness to one’s life. As a psychologist, he uses this experience to assist his clients on their own personal journeys and works to help his clients add more simplicity to their lives and return more to their roots to achieve desired goals.

Trevor and his wife, Diana, have started Dandelion Hills Farm on their two acre homestead. They raise turkeys, ducks, geese and chickens, manage bee hives and are looking to grow their personal garden into a market garden. Inside, they can and dehydrate food, have some cider bubbling away and will grow their own fodder for their birds.

Today we examine why bullying is such a problem today.  As Trevor puts it, “Bullying – Let’s trap children into a forced society and see what happens!”

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50 Responses to Episode -1733- Trevor Grice on Helping Children Deal with Bullying

  1. Your late afternoon meal can be called a high tea. 🙂

  2. I listened to this for 2 hours and didn’t hear any actual solutions for dealing with a bully.

    Mad props to jack for asking the question flat out – “how to we as parents deal with a child who is being bullied and taking them out of the school is not an option?”

    Guest’s answer:
    explore all options – wtf does that mean?
    Take them out of school – didn’t jack just say that’s not an option?
    Give the child a healthy relationship with a therapist to build confidence – seriously? A shrink’s solution is to go to a shrink? Are you kidding me?
    Send them to work with grandpa for the summer – wtf does that do for the kid right now? Does he even have a grandpa?

    The guest does a fine job of talking about all the things that don’t solve the problem but presents no real solutions. He compares schools to jails and while I agree, the guest admits to having never actually been to jail. He talks about how hard it is on children to relocate in the middle of the school year, again while I agree he once again admits that he has never actually had the experience.

    Jack puts forward the closest thing to a solution by saying you should contact the kids parents. The guest then answers that he has no experience in this either.

    At the end of the show Jack realizes that no real solutions have come up. In response to this the guest says that you should “try to figure it out the best way you can”. -wow really? Anything else captain obvious?

    Listening to this Guy is just like going to a real shrink. Words come out of his mouth yet no meaning is conveyed. He presents no real solutions just tells you to keep coming back. At least I didn’t have to pay money for this bullcrap.

    • Modern Survival

      You sound like perception bias is clouding your judgement.

      Discounting the recommendation of counseling just because it comes from a counselor is nothing but ad hominem. Seriously. I bet if my friend’s son Clinton had done so he would not of fucking hung himself from his closet door header with his belt!

      If that isn’t blunt enough let’s use some logic shall we?

      If a person is going though or has gone through traumatic experiences and having difficulty coping with it, should they at least consider professional counseling. I think one would have to be a dim whit to say no to that question, don’t you?

      Okay next is being a bully’s target, especially unrelentingly bully’s target a traumatic experience? So now I think that one is pretty much laid to rest.

      Next going to Grandpa’s for the summer. As someone that did as a child, I will tell you what I learned to think like an adult, I also learned to have fun on my own with out need for others. I did get a good work out daily, I did put muscle on, now none of this was to deal with a bully but I can say the experience would indeed help. If nothing else it is its own form or therapy.

      A child can’t see the future as adults do, they really feel that life will always be as it is now. Going away to a place totally different where none of the piddly fucking bullshit exists destroys that illusion. A child can now see, normal people don’t do this shit, this is a product of where I am at in life it will change.

      My ending comments were to the MACRO problem, not the individual problems. There is no real answer to the systemic problem other than ending the system that perpetuates it. So just like I must choose how and when I work with the interactive edge of the state as an anarchist, a parent with a child in Government School must choose how to personally deal with the harm that it causes.

      Oh and this is a SCHOOL problem not a government school problem. I spent 4 years in Catholic school, the problem was just as bad, WORSE really. Why?

      Okay in every forced social group this happens, a conventional school of any kind is a forced group. There are those who get singled out and picked on. In government school though by say 5th grade kids have different classes and teachers. They move from class to class and who is in class with them changes every class. In a Catholic school you go to the next teacher and EVERY class member comes with you, there is NO ESCAPE for the child with bullies.

      I think you are bias against counselors and there by blind to many of the real solutions given today. Frankly Dorothy and I have discussed a program level solution on and off for over 7 years now and we still have no solution. I have to agree with Trevor the solution is YOU THE PARENT, deal with it because your child’s life is at stake.

    • Homeschooling Mom

      Personally, I appreciated that Trevor was upfront with Jack about what he did/didn’t have experience dealing with. It seems silly to fault a psychologist for speaking about bullying from his professional point of view. His experience is dealing one-on-one with both victims and bullies, and so of course that was his focus.

      I agree that it was a great question, (what can we as parents do if homeschooling is not an option?). Trevor was challenging parents to first make sure that homeschooling absolutely is NOT an option, so parents don’t immediately dismiss it without giving it much thought. Then he mentioned that transferring schools IS often an option, even in rural areas, and offered that solution. Trevor also suggests doing exercises to help build the confidence of a victim, (including, but not limited to… seeing a therapist or visiting a relative for the summer). And he also discussed in length “leaning in” to the bully, and offered a few examples.

      Bullying is a difficult problem and no, unfortunately the guest did not offer a simple magical solution. If there were a quick and easy solution, this wouldn’t be such a problem. Personally, my favorite suggestion that was mentioned was teaching our kids how to empathize so that they won’t become a bully, or so they will stand up for a victim that is being bullied. It’s sort of like how we should teach our boys not to rape, instead of just focusing on teaching girls how not to be raped. Things like, “Keep your hands to yourself” and “We don’t touch people who don’t want to be touched” and “You can’t kiss someone unless they make it clear they want to be kissed.” Also just talking to our kids about movies, books, or real-life situations to make sure they can understand things from a victim’s point-of-view seems awfully beneficial.

    • First of all Mike, I would like to thank you for taking the time to share your opinion in an open forum, many people would not even choose to do that. As I finish listening to the podcast myself, I will take your thoughts into consideration to see if I could have done a better job.

      While I saw your comment earlier today, I have not had the opportunity to comment or respond until now due to work. In doing so, both Jack and Homeschooling Mom have pretty much summed up my thoughts quite eloquently. This podcast was never about proposing a solution, because the issue is systemic and not solvable on a Macro level. On a Micro level, there is no recipe to help a bullied individual because, in Jack’s famous words, “it depends.” Is the person from a two parent home, one parent home, oldest child, middle child, rural, urban, white black male female smart athletic, disfigured, learning disabled, etc. All of these factors matter in each situation in helping a child deal with bullying. One cannot give a canned response on how to help until those details are known on an individual basis. So a discussion like this inherently sounds vague and lacking direction because it should be up to the guardians to help the person based upon these factors, or to seek help if needed.

      Homeschooling Mom made a great point when she brought up rape. The real solution to this systemic problem is to address any and all forms of bullying behavior in our children. Parenting is the key! Do not allow anything that even resembles bullying to occur, and for goodness sake don’t bully your children.

      I appreciate Jack’s breakdown of the show because I feel he described my feelings as we talked. Two individuals who have identified a significant issue that is likely getting worse in our society and then engaging on a critical thinking exchange to try and broaden the horizons of listeners.

      Mike in WV, clearly you did not feel this way and you are entitled to this opinion. What you may not be aware of is the fact that you have literally proven what is wrong in our society through your comments. Your sharing of opinions is done in a standard bully manner. You chose to demean a profession in a public forum rather than let your opinions lay open for others to absorb and make his/her own critical judgments about.

      I am sure that you will disagree with me on this, but if you explore other responses, comments and opinions are not shared in a derogatory or attacking manner to anyone, even you. Most of the others have found this to be helpful in their own way and dialogue has been started on how we can make changes in our community or with our kids. In fact, I may start exploring avenues to make a bigger difference through a Facebook group, podcast or talking more with Jack about what he and Dorothy have been discussing and trying to solve in the realm of parenting and bullying. I’m sorry that you do not appreciate my field and it does seem that your ignorance about psychology is clouding your view and adding the perception bias that Jack identified. To be honest, I really only have one more thing to say regarding your comment — I think you need to see a counselor.

  3. This has been a hugely helpful episode! We have a child that is currently going through this and Trevor has helped to provide us with a bit more ammo to use in this situation. Going to have my kiddo listen to this episode too! Thank you for doing an episode on this topic!

    • You are welcome! My hope in doing this episode is to try and help JUST ONE person that does not come into the office. Thank you for letting me know that I accomplished that goal. Hopefully, there will be more!

  4. I’ve been thinking of starting an area group (Facebook or whatever) for parents who give a shit, mainly intended for parents who have children in government schools and can’t afford to home school. I want the group to be a place to find other parents in the same situation, share advice on helping their kids with subjects that the parents are weak in, share ideas on alternative ways of teaching subjects that the kid is having trouble with, have constructive discussions on filling the gaps in our kids’ education that are not addressed by the school system, and encourage workshop type gatherings to teach our children (and each other) general life skills (cooking, gardening, car care, and outdoor skills).
    I’m not sure of the best way to get started and how to encourage participation. Do you have any advice on the best way to get started? I’m not looking to monitize this, but to only do this for the mutual benifit.

    • Excellent ideas! This is definitely needed and is one of the reasons why I wanted to come on the show. I’ve been bumping around the idea of a podcast on the topic of parenting and it would be no big deal to do a Facebook Group on this topic. Let me work some stuff out and see if I can get this done and get it organized. Thanks for the push!

    • I’ve set up the FB group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/573472922831137/
      To become any kind of real resource, active members are needed. I’m no pro at this, so input and mods are needed.

      • Come on and join this group everyone. I will be on there to offer help AS A PARENT ONLY! Due to licensing restrictions I am not able to provide counseling online, but I can talk and suggest things as a parent of a six and eight year old.

  5. I do believe a large proportion of the bully perpetrators, as pointed out, are the “jocks” of the schools.

    I think Jack’s view, that third parties stepping in can either eliminate or at least better the situation, is absolutely correct. However, I think there are things that the school management can do to make this better.

    Here’s an idea- require school coaches to be trained to teach their athletes to be better Leaders. Good leaders do not encourage their peers and subordinates to pounce on the weak- they teach that it takes a team to make life better, whether it’s on the field, or in life in general.

    During my time in the service, one thing always stuck out as a great foundational stance: In or out of uniform, you represent the military, whether you realize it or not. If you do something dishonorable, you not only bring shame upon yourself, you bring shame on your unit, and the military.

    If we instill these same sensibilities into our school athletes, that they become better leaders by standing up for what’s right, rather than continuing childish antics- that these actions would gain them more respect and more people would follow them, I believe we’d have fewer issues than we have today.

    So how do we do this? If we can spend so much on “No Child Left Behind” training, which is failing miserably, we can certainly spend a small amount on ensuring that our athletic programs and instructors provide better leadership training. Certainly, these things should be taught at home, but it doesn’t, and I think fewer and fewer parents even know how to teach these values these days, let alone believe in them for themselves (parents attacking referees at games comes to mind.)

    • Modern Survival

      This is the one angle Dorothy and I have come up with that could work, our view though is schools WON’T do it because they feel it will encourage confrontation, and it will, which is why it would work. I think this should be done with all sports and activities that students compete to be in including yea cheer leading. Those girls can be the biggest bitches in a school at times, but the problem is the solution.

      • But would it be truly confrontational if the entirety of the organized athletics programs take the stance that they hold each other and others to the standard of being the example and protectors of the small? It could potentially have the same deterent effects of not challenging law enforcement. Them guys have guns and authority that can make things more difficult for you.
        Just a possible macro solution (or maybe the beginnings of one).

        • I guess this would have the potential for authoritarian issues, like that of the college student prison guard/prisoner experiment, if the propper principles aren’t encouraged too.
          I guess any large scale solution would be a balancing act in several ways.

    • MoGryph, there are a lot of good ideas here. Jack’s idea to have a third party act as a “protector” is a very good idea and one that has proven to be helpful to a lot of people, but it does come with the problem of “what happens when the protector is gone?” Absolutely, teachers and coaches are the key in the school, but there is so much fear there to do this and get sued for targeting a kid who is targeting a kid. I do believe schools want to make a difference and do the best that they can, but they often take the wrong tact in doing so. Jack’s idea of them avoiding confrontation is so true. What they forget is that the staunch non-violent protestors in our world – MLK, Jr., Parks, Gahndi and more – absolutely were working in a world of confrontation. Protesting is confrontation, Marching to Selma is confrontational, hunger strikes are confrontational. Confrontational does not mean violent, but we cannot encourage confrontation for fear of what the “others” may do. I’m sure that MLK, Jr., Parks, Gahndi were afraid of what may happen from their confrontations with others, but it did not stop them from marching forward. We cannot avoid doing what is right out of fear of what the “others” may do. In doing that, they have already won.

  6. I heard one reoccurring theme stated many different ways that applied to the bully, the bullied, and the institutions they all feel or reinforce the idea that everyone is NOT created equal, that some are above the law, that all life doesn’t deserve respect.

    The institutions all reinforce a hierarchy that at its core says one life is not as valuable as an others.

    The bully for whatever reason feels inferior and must act to counter that feeling.

    The bullied feel that they are inferior why else would the bully and the rest of the world keep picking on them and I can’t stop it so it must be true.

    The adults that I admired most always treated and talked to me as a person, not a kid or stupid teenager. They talked to me like they talked to other people. They didn’t stop with questions like how old are you, what grade are you in now or whats your favorite color. They asked whats your favorite subject in school, what books are you reading, have you seen any good movies lately. They always listened and followed it up with more why, what was it about, oh I read that book or my favorite seen in that movie was.

    Those kind of real conversations give a different perspective on the world. They didn’t care if the answer was right, wrong or the cool thing.

    Conversations like that are not hard as long as you are willing to set aside a prejudice and value system based on age, generational gaps, and we can have nothing in common. They show respect for life and value for an opinion that may not be your own.

    What is lacking in society are concrete examples of people respecting life. In how many movies have we heard “I am not above the law! I am the law!” or its like? How many times does society reinforce the idea that one group is cool and another is not?

    How many times after watching one of those shows do we turn to each other and say that is a lie, that is not how life really works, that is not the way the system is supposed to work…..?

    If kids never hear that then they have no perspective to challenge experience. A few shows back we learned common sense is just applied experience. What happens when you apply experience with out perspective?

    Faulty common sense?? 😉

  7. Looks like I stepped on some toes here…
    In regards to the “grandpa” solution – what I meant was if the kid is being bullied NOW how does waiting until summer so he/she can hang with grandpa help? Bullying is a real problem and summer with grandpa is a loooong way away for a kid who needs a solution NOW. Many kids don’t have a grandpa to hang with, so this solution applies to only a few.

    .jack says – “I have to agree with Trevor the solution is YOU THE PARENT, deal with it because your child’s life is at stake”

    ALL your child’s problems are your problems. This is not a new concept. Being a good parent is obvious and I don’t need a counselor to figure that out. If your kids life is at stake now, waiting for summer with grandpa to come may not come fast enough.

    My point was that the most realistic solutions were put forward by jack, not the so-called “professional”. We can talk about what’s wrong with the schools and society all day long but that doesn’t help a bullied kid NOW.

    I’m sorry if I offended people here but I was expecting a more timely solution than what was presented. Despite your obvious disdain toward me jack, I actually think your ideas were more helpful, more realistic and less vague than Trevor’s – who is supposed to be an expert.

    • Modern Survival

      You talk like a man with a paper asshole, you object to a man telling you the truth. You clearly have a personal stake in this clouding your judgment you should stop now before you make yourself look more foolish then you arlready have. Coming from the guy you said the following about, “My point was that the most realistic solutions were put forward by jack, not the so-called professional”.

      Seriously you are making yourself look really stupid, please stop. I am sure something caused you a ton of pain in the past, and that is why you are acting out now, but no one here is responsible for the ills of your past.

  8. PS

    – in the beginning of the show Trevor said he got into the field because he thought and I quote “sitting on a couch listening to other peoples problems seemed like a good job” and I’m afraid this is the extent of the help offered by Trevor – the equivalent of a guy sitting on a couch listening to your problems.

    • Here is a strange thought a counselor is not supposed to give you the answers, but listen and help you arrive at a solution that works for you. Not by handing you a proscription but by asking questions to help you think it through.

      The number of differing variables in a humans life problems means that each solution is extremely different. So it depends.

      Some people need to talk things through with a disinterested party to be able to get a different or objective perspective. Some need to vent their feelings and thoughts so they can see things clearly.

      It does not work for me. For me it is better to work it out on my own in a quiet place. Sitting on a couch listening to a strangers problems would make it so I need a quiet place alone. It is just not my gift.

      Trevor is very good at listening to others problems and helping them find a solution that works for them. How do I know?

      Well mike you said it best “My point was that the most realistic solutions were put forward by jack, not the so-called “professional”.”

      Your right waiting to go see grandpa is not necessarily the best solution depending on the grandpa it might be a bad solution. It was an example what can be learned from that example?

      1. Everyone needs unconditional love and support.
      2. Everyone needs an to accomplish something and be able to stand back and say I did that.
      3. Everyone needs distance and space from a problem to see a solution not just a tress while looking for a forest.
      4. Everyone needs a safe environment to vent their emotions.
      5. There is no reason to wait until a kid is bullied or bullying to provide them what they need to be a healthy functioning person.

      And that is the real question being asked by many people here. How do we make sure as many kids as possible have that experience?

      So counseling does not work for you not a big deal find out what does. It doesn’t mean it wont work for someone else.

      • DavidKS, this is a great synopsis! I often tell people that I am not in the business of advice, but in the business of perspective. Counseling does not work for everyone and I am biased to think that it may work for most. Permaculture, sustainability, preparedness, homeschooling, and homesteading have all added so much to my life the past few years. I am certain that this is another avenue that holds a bunch of hope for people searching for new perspectives and I would wager a guess that these directions could actually be better than therapy for a number of presenting mental health concerns. Grandpa’s house was most certainly an example of a situation that I have found a number of young kids gain value from in order to find some peace, gain confidence and learn some good old fashioned hard work and values with a major dose of respect.

  9. I talk like a man with a paper asshole and just because I disagree with the guest I should shut up because I look stupid….. See you at counseling jack… You need it just as bad as I do….

    • Modern Survival

      It is not that you disagree it is HOW you disagree. You are making yourself look stupid, keep doing it if you really want to.

    • Modern Survival

      And my disdain is not for you but for the way you are acting right now.

  10. Jack, please read my comment I just posted on the listener feedback show. I am sorry – I misunderstood yours and Trevor’s goal.

    Trevor – I want to apologize for my post earlier. I kept thinking “how does counseling keep the bully from beating my ass?” but I see that I was expecting a solution for something different that what you were doing – which is to keep the victim sane. Once I figured that out your stuff makes much more sense to me and your solutions offered are indeed viable. My jabs toward you were not meant to demean. The original post should be read in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way. I know you don;t know me in person but I like to joke around and that’s all I was doing here. I can’t talk to a lawyer without cracking a lawyer joke, same with a shrink. Don’t take it as an insult please, thats not how I meant it.

    In fact Trevor, I have to commend you on the fact that despite the (unintended) hostile appearance of my original comment, you took the criticism very well and said “yes we can do more” – and did! I’m humbled by that and props to you sir.

    Again, please forgive my initial retardation of thinking we are trying to stop the bully. It makes much more sense to help the victim than to stop all the bullies out there.

    • Modern Survival

      “Again, please forgive my initial retardation”

      That made me laugh! Your a good man Mike.

      • We all have our moments…. i’m not that proud of this one. Thanks for understanding Jack. I hope Trevor is as forgiving.

    • Your apology is absolutely accepted. Thank you for taking the time to look at this endeavor in another way. We are all guilty of “tunnel vision” at times and if you chatted with my wife, I’m sure she would inform you of my long history of having blinders on for certain topics. In fact, for years I felt the same way about chiropractors! I am a sarcastic and heavy handed person when not working so I do understand this, it is just very difficult to do via chatting, writing and texting. I am very much able to handle shrink jokes, it just did not seem that was the direction you were going. In fact, my wife and I made coffee cups and ornaments one year with the title Ph.D. – Phake Doctor and sold them on Etsy. Funny thing is I actually sold three!

      I appreciate your acknowledgment of my response and do know that my “counseling” comment was also “tongue in cheek.” While the initial comments may have had a “bully framework” as I indicated, you have proven that you are in fact not a bully by your actions here and that is to be commended.

      Actually, your confusion about the direction of the show was understood because the title of show actually may have steered you there. My original title was:

      Bullying – Let’s trap children into a forced society and see what happens!

      More discussion based and my proposed questions were geared toward that, which means the show went the direction that I had originally hoped it would go. The hope was to activate parents to alter their perspectives a bit and see what they may be doing to enable the bullying that their child is experiencing. Jack summed that up in his response on the listener feedback show.

      Mike in WV, again, I absolutely accept your apology and appreciate your willingness to do so. We need more of this in our society!

      • Thank you for understanding Trevor. I have 2 kids in govt schools, one in elementary and another in middle school. Fortunately we have not had any bullying issues yet, but when I saw the show title i thought “well I don’t need this now but it will be a good bit of knowledge to put in my toolkit for when the issue comes up”. So the whole time listening to your solutions I’m going “-yeah but how does that stop the bully from pounding the kid?”. When it finally dawned on me that the goal here is not to stop the bully but help the kid not become suicidal, I wanted to go flush myself down the toilet. I don’t know why I didn’t see it that way from the start….. it seems pretty obvious now. Anyways, thanks for cutting me some slack sir.

  11. davidKS: Yes you are correct! I feel very stupid for not seeing that Jack and Trevor were talking about a solution for the victim rather than stopping the bully. See my comment above.

    • Miss communication is easy the hard part is sticking with the conversation till it is all cleared up. After listening to the feedback show and rereading everything I can see why you where frustrated.

      We where just talking past one another because we saw the problem from 2 different angles. 🙂

  12. For those still following this thread, I want to follow up on Jack’s statements in Wednesday’s and Thursdays shows on trauma.

    Trauma is the real, or perceived threat of harm, or death to yourself, or someone you know.

    This is a vague definition to a degree and encompasses so many things. Jack is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT regarding the role of trauma in those that are being bullied. Bullies create a sense of helplessness in their victims so they will comply. This is done with trauma in almost every situation. Even with no words. Imagine 5’6″ angry boy standing over 4’7″ skinny nerd kid. No words need to be said to gather the perceived threat of harm that could happen – so trauma is possible if the victim views this as such. This is why there were numerous cases of Posttraumatic Stress Disroder (PTSD) documented ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES following the September 11th, 2001 attacks. The attacks were real (stay with me now, no tin hats just yet), they implied threat of harm or death and they happened to people we knew – New Yorkers, Pentagon employees. Sure, we did not KNOW them, but they are real people. Moreso, the randomness of the attacks increased fear and had everyone feel it could happen to them. Offices closed, planes were grounded and the threat was unknown.

    Trauma is a very serious issue in our society. More kids are being traumatized daily than ever before. Is this bullying? No, it is, in my opinion, a lack of resiliency. Yes, I’m back to parenting. We are not raising resilient children anymore and they are so fragile to the world’s chaos that they quickly feel helpless due to the stress that the world has in store for them. Gone are the days where kids scrounged up enough nickels to go down to the store to get candy, now they yell at their parents to go in the store and get it while they stay in the car on their tablets.

    Lack of resiliency is creating more helplessness in our society and it is absolutely documented that the one factor most connected to suicide is helplessness. When a person feels helpless, either learned or real, s/he is at the bottom and begins exploring options that others do not. With this increase in suicidal thoughts there will be more suicide attempts.

    Do not be confused, we in the mental health industry are seeing a suicide epidemic in our nation and Jack’s buddy’s son is most certainly a casualty of this epidemic. However, there is no pill, no vaccine and no immunization that will battle this. We have to battle it by building up our immunities/resiliencies and teaching those to our children so the epidemic does not follow the next generations.

    • Modern Survival

      You know what I didn’t ask you, how the F do we have kids that are such pussies they need fing safe spaces in college, they can’t see a picture of a gun, etc. but yet we have so many more it seems bullies?

      I guess like lions more game herds equals more lions but I see a disconnect here. Way too many bullies coming from the same groups of wussy ass kids.

      Of course it is the CRY BULLY generation.

    • One of your comments yesterday stated “violence begets violence.” Which is true. Unfortunately, trauma begets trauma, fear begets fear and misery begets misery. Our technological world has created “safe distance” in order to say what you want and not get any real consequence other than a tongue lashing on a comment board. This can be avoided by just being anonymous. It’s like “hit-and-run” bullying when you really think of it. The increase in bullying could be a role for more bullying, but its the protection that is adding to it with the lack of resiliency that we are neglecting to give to our kids. Everyone has always known that bullies have issues and are really “pussies” that have a gang, size or willingness to elicit fear and threat. Unfortunately, the lack of resiliency in our society these days has created more “pussies.” And I would wager a guess that the increase in “pussies” is the reason for our apparent increase in bullying. Then the environment helps to support it. Schools fearing to say “boo” to a bully, anonymous distance that technology creates and then the perpetuation of the bullying begets bullying phenomenon.

      • Modern Survival

        Actually the safe spaces man, they are places with totally restricted speech so you don’t have to hear anything you don’t like. They are literally no free speech zones. Really think about that.

        • Well since I made an ass of myself here, allow me to do something useful – I happen to have a perfect clip that backs up your point exactly:

          https://youtu.be/mISSV–OFEU

        • This requires some research as I’m not aware of these. Sounds ridiculous. Let me guess. This happened out east.

        • Modern Survival

          No man these things are all over, the University of Tennessee wants students to using flipping gender neutral pronouns, TENNESSEE!

        • Well it didn’t take me long to find it, so essentially they are the equivalent of a “Gun Free Zone.” This goes back to your comments on confrontation. By castrating a person’s First Amendment rights, we avoid having to be confrontational or to have to debate in an open forum. So in the safe zone philosophy we would have expelled Mike in WV rather than try to work it out and come to an understanding. Debate is not an option, only safe discussion. The Wussification of the World continues! I cannot even comment on how this is psychologically sound. It’s overprotective and the college personification of the helicopter parent. It is a response to protect the students with no resiliency.

          In fact, I guess I do have a comment. The safe zones are abso-freaking-lutely the university response to a student body full of unresilient, sensitive, scared, tea cup teenagers. College is supposed to be the sounding board and hot bed for debate and rhetoric. They are now feeling forced to “protect” the helicopter entitled children we are churning out so as not to get sued as an accessory to harassment for allowing this to occur. This helps avoid litigation by adding plausible deniability and vilifying the “aggressor” even more since they chose to ignore the “safe place” agreement. They are better able to round up the pitch forks and torches on this person. Oh my goodness *palm to forehead* What are we becoming?

        • Mike in WV – I could only watch 2 minutes of that. I wanted to hear the words of offense and of course they were petty and appropriate. A commenter on the video said that the police officer made a fool of himself today. Well I disagree, unless I watch the rest of the video and see him do that. In the first few minutes, I feel bad for him. He has a duty to enforce this, if he wants his job. The problem is higher up, the board that does not have to enforce this ridiculousness. This is no different than chewing out the waitress for undercooking your chicken. Thank you for finding the link, I’m now more worried about our country/world than I was yesterday. It seems we should not be worried about an Ebola or Zika Virus epidemic, we are already being ravaged by the Pussitis virus.

  13. This is a very tough subject.
    I lived it for the entire time I was growing up…all the way until I dropped out of school at 15.
    Those years have done an incredible amount of damage that is still palpable. Those years of confidence building cannot be gotten back.
    I didn’t have a girlfriend, I didn’t attend a prom, there are a lot of experiences that I didn’t have because I was afraid.
    School bus rides were a nightmare. I would pretend to be sick so I didn’t have to go.
    I can recall instances where I was a bully, I can remember instances where I was so desperate that I would try to bully kids weaker than I so I would be accepted by the “cool kids”. It was unnatural, I didn’t feel right about it…I got caught and got in trouble…I remember thinking how come I get caught the first time I try to bully somebody but I get bullied every single day and nobody ever notices or tries to help me…how come THEY never get in trouble.

    I was a big fat kid with freckles. Mom told me to just ignore them and they will go away..she meant well…she just didn’t know any better. Dad was an old man and very sick..he died when I was 15…we didn’t talk much at all.

    I didn’t fight back, only once or twice and usually would end up getting beat up…I was big but really had nobody to teach me how to fight so I didn’t know how. Plus, I was always outnumbered.

    I’m OK today, good job, good family… plus I’m trained, I’m equipped and I’m not afraid anymore. Believe me when I tell you that today I am very much a Sheepdog. But I still feel some insecurity and have to fight it off…some days that’s easier than others…and I haven’t been bullied in 30 years.

    For folks who haven’t experienced it, all I can tell you is that bullying is a real thing, and it causes real pain that doesn’t go necessarily go away just because the bullying stops.

    • Modern Survival

      Congratulations you are brave now, it takes bravery to tell such stories.

    • Thank you for sharing and helping to put a face to what Jack and I were talking about. Based on my experience, there are thousands of individuals such as your self and it is great to hear how you have persevered through your traumas. While teaching resiliency to children is important, it will always remain in some capacity if we can find it. It seems that DC found his and has persevered, but still with some scars and battle wounds. Thank you again!

    • DC, I know some of your pain as I endured this too. I am “a girl,” nevertheless I feel compelled to offer you a /fist bump brother!
      And thank you for sharing your experience here!

  14. I read of a mom who when she heard her daughter was picking on another girls, esp. making fun of her clothes, took her to a 2nd hand store and bought the ugliest clothes they could find and made daughter wear those for a while.

    In this case it worked.

  15. I’m so surprised there aren’t more comments from people who experienced this here! Odd.

    Jack, I remember when you said maybe you should do this episode, and THANK YOU so much Trevor for contacting Jack and committing to doing this interview!!!

    I finally found time for listening to this and WOW. Even after all I know about these things already (which is noteworthy), it was such a powerful experience hearing what Trevor and you were saying. You both described the bullying that I endured/survived both through so-called “public” school, and from my parents at home, so very well and it really opened my eyes even more to what I experienced and of course how that influences me now. Again, I am no stranger to the field of psychology and ongoing learning regarding better understanding of human psychology, yet I found it so very refreshing and liberating to hear this interview with Trevor and how he laid things out. I’ve said it before, and now I can say it with even more certainty, as badly as I was bullied (in particular between about 3rd grade and 8th grade), if it happened today instead of the late 80’s and early 90’s, I would likely not have made it out alive. My heart breaks for what my childhood self went through the more I understand it, and for any child that is forced to endure this. IMHO if there is an alternate option for these children, it NEEDS to happen. Period. ?
    THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU both for doing this interview!

    • You are welcome! Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment. While most people have had some “tough” times in their childhoods, not all that many have had to endure what you have. I do think these voices need to be heard. I recommend that if you are willing to share here, perhaps there is a place and perhaps Jack may provide some time. Fill out the guest speaker form and see if they will take you. I also recommend any one else out there to try and perhaps there can be a show on the trauma of those that were bullied and how they survived. what got them through? If not, I just purchased a microphone yesterday and I’m strongly exploring my own podcast on these and other survival mental health issues. I will definitely revisit these topics in that podcast if I’m able to get it going, find the time. The ideas are there though. Anyway, thank you again for your kind words and comments. Your voice is the one that kids need to hear in order to get through whatever trauma they may be facing.