Episode-1263- Food Forest Questions and Answers – Part Three

Three weeks ago I did a show called Food Forestry and How it Actually Works. In that show I asked for specific food forest questions. The response was so heavy that a two weeks ago I did Episode-1251- Food Forest Questions and Answers – Part One and wasn’t able to cover all the questions by a long shot. So then last week we did Episode-1258- Food Forest Questions and Answers – Part Two and we are still now far from done.

Given the huge volume of questions it is clear there is a tremendous amount of interest in this topic and there should be.  Nothing can provide the sustainable food and resources like a well managed forest be it small or large.

If you didn’t listen to the first three shows, you might want to do so before listening to this show. The reason being is that this show is a direct result of questions that I asked the audience to send me at the end of the first show and the answers given on the next two. Hence much of what was covered there I will be assuming you have already heard today.

The reality is a food forest is both simple and quite complex at the same time. The complexity is based on the system that develops, the massive numbers of interrelationships and the fungal networks, guilds, etc that are formed.

Join Me Today As I Answer Your Questions Including…

  • How do you deal with land that is already forested
  • Determining spacing of plantings
  • Determining spacing of swales
  • How far down grade of a swale can you plant, it depends
  • Dealing with Squirrels
  • Dealing with pest invasive insects, why you should not even worry about them
  • How species and sector analysis play into food forest design
  • How long does it take to get an ROI on a food forest
  • How many types of ROI can a food forest yield

Resources for today’s show…

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17 Responses to Episode-1263- Food Forest Questions and Answers – Part Three

  1. beewhispererwyosurvival

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1374253342829125/
    TSP MEMBERS LOOK

    ALL DO TO BIG JACK HERE ON TSP>>>THANK YOU JACK FOR EVERYTHING> MJ
    Permaculture/Survival Event

    June 21st 2014
    Cheyenne, Wyoming

    A Bee Friendly Company, INC. is teaming up with I.P.U.G. (a local prepping, homesteading, and survival group) offering a one day course June 21st 2014 on the art of permaculture. A Bee Friendly Company, INC. has Nick Ferguson coming. Nick Ferguson (heard on The Survival Pod Cast Episode-1204) is a passionate and active permaculturist who is currently building his property into a Permaculture school called Permaculture Classroom. Before earning his PDC and Earthworks Course certification from Geoff Lawton, Nick grew up gardening, and his extended family was heavily into alternative agriculture. Nick now manages and cares for a multi-million dollar estate outside of a large metropolitan area. Nick’s real passion is teaching sustainable living systems and design, and for this reason he is building a Permaculture demonstration site, school, and sustainable farm.

    At this class we will be doing a lot. The education that one gets form the courses we have go a long way to saving you money, time, and prepping for good times and bad. We hope that you will attend and lean more. We have some guest speakers coming on more than just permaculture. This course is from 7am to 5pm+, with Q&A at the end for you. Nick will be here for the whole day, and for a few mins of FREE consultation. The price for the course would not cover a consultation from Nick, there are only 32 spots left for the course. Getting information like this comes almost never at this price.

    We only have 50 spots, 32 open, $100 Deposit need on March 1st non-refundable.

    PRICE Per Person:
    $175 for the day (couple $275)
    $155 for military (honor system, no ID need, but honor those that have)
    $140 Wyoming Master Gardeners and up to date LCCC/UW students
    $135 for I.P.U.G. survival group members and TSP Members (The Survival Podcast W/Jack Spirko, a good friend of mine)

    What is in the course?

    7:00 am coffee & coffee cake, meet and greet

    7:30 am Nick on the art of permaculture, what it does, how it works

    10:15 am break 15 min break- talk to Nick- talk to others

    10:30 am Amy Wilard on companion planting for Wyoming

    12:00 pm LUNCH will be. BLT greenery wraps, sandwich meats and cheeses, Rolls, stir fry chicken and vegetables, with lemon aid, Tea, and water, With a slice of pie

    1:30 pm Michael Jordan on water catchment

    2:30 pm Nick Ferguson/Jim Jordan hands on earth works; swells & cover cropping

    4:00 pm Snacks, Q & A with instructors & consultation (be nice and give everyone a chance with them), walk the 10 year plans for the URBAN HOME STEAD that we will be at, and the product table.

    6:00 pm “I don’t know where you’re going but you can’t stay here.” END of the class and we hope you keep in touch for more events.

    Drive Safe Home

    Location is Cheyenne, WY (site will be given to people that come…it is no big secret, but you know)

    Email abeefriendlycompany@gmail.com

    Or call 307-638-8440 to sign up

    *** NOTE: bring a shovel, gloves, & proper foot ware. You’re going to make a swell so you can see how it works. There will be a small piece of equipment on site so think safety, bring vest if you have one. If you want more to eat or drink bring it (not agents an adult beverage AFTER the earthworks part), but I am sure you will not leave unfull at my table. NUMBER ONE THING, have a good time. If you feel that you cannot contain yourself, don’t come, I think you know some of the people that will be here and I am sure they will help you leave.
    Amy Wilard: Is an herbalist here in Wyoming. She uses the art of permaculture to grow food and medication on a great homestead here. She is one of the only people I know that is growing wolfberries in this climate and altitude. She makes her own medicines, teaches alterative Medicines & Herbs, and works the land. Owner of
    The Farmacy (https://www.REALfarmacy.com ) she shows people “Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”

    Chritopher Di Cicco: Owner of Sol Survivor and Cross Fit Training facility (http://www.solsurvivor.com) Here in Cheyenne, Wyoming, has been rigorously and professionally instructing throughout the Combat Operators of the Department of Defense (DoD) for over 30 years. His Instructors have a cumulative 51 years of Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (S.E.R.E) and Rescue techniques under their belts. They instruct in Defensive Driving, High Risk of Isolation, High Risk Environmental Survival.

    Rob Twyford: A Born and Bred Wyoming Cowboy is a Hobby gold prospector. He owns one of the largest gold dredging systems that one can have before you are a professional prospector. Rob, a member of GPAA (Gold Prospectors Association of America), is a Wyoming Mountain Man, Panning for gold, camping for months, and living off the land with what is only in his pocket at the time.

    Maija Smith: Owner of AllWays Granola, (https://www.facebook.com/allways.granola/info) has a gluten free, sugar free base product! Useing local raw honey and canola oil is a great fit for specific diets or lifestyles, ie. Vegan, paleo or gluten free. Each blend is made to order as well so if you have any nut or fruit allergies, likes or dislikes, She will add or omit so you can still enjoy this wonderful granola to the fullest! Great for Preppers, survivalist, Spicific dites, or camping it is Allways Granola.

    Michael Jordan: Owner of A BEE Friendly Company, inc. founded I.P.U.G. His growing interest of self-preservation and the love of the earth has made him more than a beekeeper. One of the Few called Bee Activist; his teaching on beekeeping has been heard all over the world. He has worked with Worlds of Wonder Discovery Channel, Bee’s Without Boarders, The Pearl Foundation, Boys & Girl scouts, 4-H groups, The Rotary Club, and many youth programs teaching the lost art of beekeeping. His travels and stories of how biodynamic beekeeping, growing your own food can change the world will make you smile and cry. With his new type of bee hive, Michael hopes to put a bee hive everywhere. “When people tell me about green technology jobs and products, I laugh, because there is nothing greener then what I am, A beekeeper.”

  2. We don’t have a rat terrior, but have a cat that does a great job keeping squirrels, rabbits, birds and such out of my garden. Birds were pecking at my strawberries as they turned ripe. She decided to “nap” in the strawberry bed. They left my strawberries alone. The squirrels loved my ground cherries. They’d sit on the roof, eat the berries, dropping the husks down. Then I found a squirrel with its head ripped off near the ground cherries. Couple days later another one. They left my ground cherries alone after that.

  3. you could do a permaculture podcast a couple times a week and I would want more. I love the shows that tell me how to do something.

    take care,
    steve

  4. I love your permaculture episodes the most of any topic! You are helping me design and plant my own food forest on 3 acres at my BOL / vacation home/ homestead! By doing so you are helping to feed my family and I both nutritionally and spiritually. I’m not a hippy by any stretch of the imagination, hell I drive a Hummer and love guns. But the time I spend designing and planting my food forest is when I am most satisfied, happy and at peace! You could talk about permaculture and food forests everyday and I would still want more! Thanks Jack for introducing me to the amazing world of permaculture and food forestry!

  5. Loved the show. The people that don’t want to here about permaculture are not going to change there mind with the talk in the begining and the rest of us don’t need it. Just get to the good parts.

  6. Awesome show. Question for the audience and Jack. You talked about spacing of trees but does anyone have experience or suggestions about spacing of trees when you want a food forest that’s primary function is a wind break? The reason I ask is because my reading suggests that you don’t want the trees to dense or you risk actually creating more turbulent wind on the leeward side of the break. Otherwise I think I would use a 5:1 or 7:1 ratio. Any ideas or suggestions?

    • Modern Survival

      Seriously, it depends.

    • To avoid the turbulance issue that Mthomesteaded mentioned the Google searches that I have been conducting seem to agree that when using very dense tall plantings for a wind break, you need to stack rows of plants of different heights both before and after the highest row. Such as semi-dwarf trees, medium height trees then the tall pines then go back down to medium height trees then Semi-dwarf trees then shrubs. Like an airplane wing you get the airflow to smooth out before the wind hits the ground, but most of the wind gets diverted upwards. I have not tried this myself yet, but I have a new row of Afgan pines that I am going to sandwich in between some fruit trees and shrubs to see what it does.

    • @TheRancher
      The Bill Mollison Permaculture book shows this quite well. Hell I think he specifically calls it like an airplane wing.

      He also has some pretty badass ideas of stacking tires and putting sunchokes in them.

  7. Just a little note on the backyard orchard culture. I couldn’t bring myself to buying $30 fruit trees and then cutting them down to 18 inches. So what I did was wait till my local nursery reduced their prices by 75%. For $7.00 per tree I figured what the heck. Also, when buying trees, you need to make sure you don’t buy older trees that are designed and priced to give you fruit immediately.

    Also, thank you Jack. I took Geoff’s online PDC and just got two contracts for two urban designs. One of them I am partnering with a local artist and we have some really cool things planned. Hopefully I get my website up finally and can start showcasing some stuff.

  8. Just listened to this episode ..

    Thanks for answering my question Jack. I still have my camp up in the woods but I bought a foreclosed house last February with 1/2 acre of a sunny yard and started gardening this year for real. There is a large side lawn where I am doing a food forest. The backyard is for vegtables and is decent size also.

    It’s hard for me to have a dog due to my lifestyle as I am always going here and there etc.

    • Modern Survival

      Cool just don’t worry about the squirrels, if they become a problem net your veggies. Rat traps and peanut butter nailed to the side of a tree work wonders. If you don’t want to eat them and don’t want to waste them, well likely someone on your street would eat them. I know if a neighbor was offering them to me, they would be stew. Have you ever tried it?

      • I’ve never tried squirrel no. I do have some blunt type points that go on an arrow that seem to be made to kill by shock or bludgeon small game or some such. Once when I was in my teens I shot a rabbit with a 12 gauge but I didn’t know how to cook it. I think I boiled it in a pot of water with no seasonings whatever. My parents where not home at the time otherwise I probably won’t have been allowed to bring it in the house. I couldn’t eat it as it didn’t taste good because of the way I cooked it perhaps. I cooked a grouse once that flew into the house and broke it’s neck. That was pretty good, but I used shake and bake.

        I actually did plant mulberries. I harvested the berries about 2 or 3 years ago on the side of the road and got them to sprout in a pot. I planted those at my mothers house. The edge of my house that I bought has alot of sumac and bittersweet on a forest edge going back onto an ajoining lot. I have tried to control the bittersweet which grows way up into the trees as a vine. I can’t cut down the summac as if I open it up the bittersweet will get more sun and probably take off. What I did was transplant the mullberies from my mother’s house which are now about 4 or 5 feet tall. I transplanted them kind of late fall so hopefully they will be ok. I want to try to get them to take over the edge from the summac and other stuff. I am not sure I can grow mullberies at my camp as that is zone 4B, but I am growing other stuff up there which is 10 acres and I had done what you said by creating several clearings with a chain saw, but I have not removed any stumps.

  9. Jack, yes squirrel can be quite tasty. You need to do a podcast on it.
    Have had to take out numerous squirrels going after our pecans.

  10. Love the show.
    Has anyone ever seen detailed in a book or other form ways to do permaculture in an existing orchard? Have a few acres of pecans and wanting to plant perennials among them. The books I’ve seen such as the Holistic Orchard don’t really address pecans, and most sites that talk about permaculture orchards are ones where they design it from the ground up and not one already well established. The key issue is being able to harvest the pecans. One idea going to try next year is growing grapes among the pecans on trellis over swales.

  11. Jack or anyone,
    My father in law has some substantial property here in Charleston SC. We currently use it for deer, turkey, and quail hunting. After engaging him in the idea of a 1-2 acre food forest plot he is opening up to the idea. It would be less than 1% of the total property. However, he is adamant about prescribed burns every January. So, should the food forest be protected from the burns via wide fire lanes or are there species that can withstand fire? And yes, we usually burn the whole damn thing except the cabin.

    • Modern Survival

      If you are doing prescribed burning that alone should be UNDER FULL CONTROL OF WHAT DOES AND DOESN’T BURN, but setting up good fire control anywhere is a good idea.