Episode-1003- Listener Feedback for 10-22-12

Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

Join Me Today as I Answer Your eMails

It’s Monday and time for another round of you your feedback, questions and commentary sent to jack at thesurvivalpodcast.com.

Make sure if you submit content for a feedback show that you put something like “comment for jack”, “question for jack” or “article for jack” in the subject line to assure proper identification for my screening process.

Today we discuss humor, bugging out, economics, debt, monetary creation, corporate profits and an environmental catastrophe.

Please understand I receive several hundred emails a day and can’t get them all on the air. I do put out a lot of information on Facebook from emails that I can’t fit on the program though so keep em coming.

Join Me Today As I Respond to Your Emails On

  • Apparently I am now “Captain Jack Spirko”
  • How do you know when to bug out
  • Sen. Tom Coburn says we have 2-5 years before the monetary endgame
  • Debunking the “we owe the money to ourselves myth”
  • Debunking the “we can just print more money myth”
  • The solution to monetary injustice “ban profits” really?
  • The damage being done by mining the Tar Sands in Canada

Resources for Today’s Show…

Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon. Also please enter our listener appreciation contest and help spread the word about our show. Also remember you can call in your questions and comments to 866-65-THINK and you might hear yourself on the air.

53 Responses to Episode-1003- Listener Feedback for 10-22-12

  1. Scary quote from the audio, “I’ll support anything my president proposes.” This truly defines the word “Sheeple”

  2. Jack, great show. I also emailed you but thought I’d write here. About the question about where to get info about situations & info that would influence bugging out. I receive alerts from my city, by text, email & phone, for weather emergencies, bad accidents that close roads, major crime events. I signed up at the local city website. It is like a local version of the AlertsUSA message service. So check your local city, state, township etc for your local emergency alerts. thanks.

  3. Ronnie in Iowa

    q> If you think we didn’t really land on the moon then I can’t help you. Your brain is damaged. <q Oh, you do have a way with words!! I will laugh about that the rest of the day.

    Yes, we are over flowing with Drain Bamaged loser assclowns and two of them actually are in competition to be PRESIDENT! How f'd up is that???

  4. Hey Jack, Great show.
    I agree with you on the tar sands damage. It is a national embarrassment. Unfortunately there were and are people living around the tar sands. However they are mostly Native Americans and therefore of little consequence to our federal government.
    I am much more afraid of what will happen if our federal government allows the sale of Nexen to the Chinese.

    http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/energy/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com/2012/08/22/nexen-deal-sheds-light-on-chinas-oilsands-strategy

    With regards to Keystone XL, it would seem transcanada has managed to alienate even oil friendly Texans against the pipeline.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2012/10/17/transcanada-texas.html

  5. Jack,
    Great show today. I looked at the Oil Sands pictures and at first I thought they were abstract oil paintings. Until the scope of things set in. Then I thought I was looking at an oil spill. This is horrific.

  6. Interesting information on the tar sands, not a thing mentioned about the controls in place to prevent extending the polution. The info presented is a completely biased opinion. Unfortunately other sources of oil do more damage with human rights abuses. Maybe something should be done to reduce the dependance on oil without the crock fed to everyone about how efficient wind is (the source of the article is the U.K. where wind generators are not living up to their claims by 50% at best).

  7. Jack, that radio bit is a Jay Leno style hit job – talk to 100 people on the street & get 7 or 8 funny sound bites for the show. These were some obviously under informed Democrats that were goaded into agreeing to crazy stuff he was saying. He’s taking such an extreme position, most of those people probably don’t really follow what he’s saying. It’s no different than Borat getting all those right-wing folks from Arizona to start singing “Throw the Jew down the Well”. Does this mean all people from AZ hate Jews? No.

    I think it’s unfortunate that you’re propagating this stereotype from the pulpit of your show. I hope you don’t really believe that’s how all liberals think. More importanly, this kind of thinking distracts from the larger economic problem of corporate welfare & corporate influence on government. Our friend Bernie Sanders explains forcefully here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sknt-UBRhxo

    • Modern Survival

      @Mike, there were fricken more then 8 people that proved to be idiots here. This is what the dichotomy gets you when taken to the extreme. Most liberals DO think this way they just do so incrementally. I am sure someone could do a piece similar to this exploiting republicans, find me one I will play it.

      My position is clear I think both sides are destroying the nation.

    • Modern Survival

      In fact Mike this is something I have mentioned and linked to many times that shows the extreme version of the right, just as this piece shows the extreme version of the left.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdt_f0hwUg

      Frankly all you have to do is look at our two so called “choices” to realize how blind the average American is.

  8. 8, 10, 2 dozen people – the point is, it’s probably a small sample – I truly hope you understand how editing works, & not standby your insinuation that any random person at the DNC is going to agree to outlaw profits.

    I’m sure I could find some Tea Party rally where a few folks are making racists comments or blaming Jews for America’s problem. But I don’t think you’d want me assuming that Libertarians were all racists, the way you’re suggesting all Democrats want to eliminate capitalism for Communism. But I won’t do that, because I don’t believe that solves anything.

    I would just prefer if you played that Bernie Sanders video in an upcoming show. I hear a lot of lip service about “both sides of the dichotomy”, but I only hear in-depth attacks on the Democrats. Corporate influence in our government is the largest threat to liberty there is, & the longer it goes unchecked, the more entrenched they become. It should be of great concern to your average listener. The fact that those 10 companies have rewritten the rules so that not only do they not pay taxes, but they actually get refunds, paid for by the average American taxpayer, is one of the greatest crimes ever perpetrated on the people of this country! Please consider my proposal, & back up your claim that you’re equally tough on both sides.

    • Modern Survival

      @mike like most people you are biased to your side of the dichotomy. I have slammed Romney to the umpteenth time, I called W an assclown for the entire time he was in office and TSP was in existance, I called McCain an idiot during the election many times. I post plenty of anti Romney stuff to facebook despite the very pro Romney stance of much of the audience.

      Mike to be flat out honest, if you only here democrat bashing on TSP it is only because that is what you want to hear.

  9. Jack, do me a favor & tell me 1 show where you really go in depth on why you don’t like Romney. I mean seriously in-depth, the way you expounded on this handful of uninformed Democrats & linked the “mindset” to all Democrats & the downfall of corporate America. I hear you slam Democrats, & then at the end, you always say, “Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like Romney either”. But I rarely hear you say anything more than a sentence or two.
    I listen to most of your shows & am quite confident that an ombudsman, listening to this show, would absolutely agree that you are unfair to one side & merely pay lip service to the other. Please, help me out & point me toward a show where you lay into just Republicans, the way you just went off on Democrats while making excuses for why corporations pay very little in taxes to the dismay of budget-balancers.

    • Modern Survival

      Mike do me a favor and stop acting like a child! I am not going to fuck around on this shit with you. I take shit every day for saying there is NO DIFFERENCE between the parties. I have 4.5 years of audio out there I am not digging though it for you to find what YOU want to hear.

      I don’t give a shit which assclown wins as it WON’T matter both candidates are scum and both candidates are traitors. I have said that many times on the air, I don’t need to tell you why I don’t like one vs. the other if my stance is they are the same get it?

      Of course Obama get a bit more of a beating right now, HE IS IN OFFICE. You want to hear me bash Bush? Try episodes from June – Oct of 08. If you listen to the show right after the election you will hear me say to “give Obama a chance”, after his first state of the Union address you will hear me say, chance had, chance revoked.

      You think there is a difference between D and R I don’t, why the fuck do I need to tell you why one sucks differently then the other when I say they are the same, they are sell out scum.

      Now you mentioned Sanders, I actually disagree with him on many things but have also praised him many times, I see him and Dr. Paul as the only two honest men in DC. Sadly one is leaving.

  10. “We don’t need to corporate tax because we have dividends!” LOL. That’s about as crazy on the right side of economics as outlawing profits is on the left. I should post a video of YOU.

    • Modern Survival

      That is not what I said! I said that when dividends are paid out the share holders pay taxes and those taxes therefore are on corporate gains. I didn’t say to do away with corporate tax rates.

      Though corporations pay a LOT in taxes, as an owner in several in the past I know it to be true. The corporations that pay almost no taxes are the mega corps, they use loop holes put in place by DEMOCRATS and REPUBLICANS, look who funded your assclown in 08, look who is funding Romney today, same people.

      Keep believing your stupid shit if you want to, keep telling me I am wrong that they are the same, if you want to, I respect your opinion.

      Do NOT however fucking put words in my mouth that I didn’t say.

    • @Mike
      NPR’s Planet Money recently got together a bunch of economists from across the political spectrum who agreed on everything from the need to legalize drugs to ending all corporate taxation.

      • Best idea I heard all day… That’s all I’m trying to get Jack to do – consider both sides. It’s a cop-out to say, “they both equally suck”, & then bash one side, while giving lip service to another.

        I’m sure the bipartisan committee would find that we are not taxing the rich enough. Here’s historically conservative Ben Stein, finally acknowledging that taxes on the ultra rich are too low, on FOX NEWS of all places (watch their jaws hit the ground):
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFZ8h2ygIcg

        • Modern Survival

          Calling both sides the same is not a cop out Mike, I slam the democrats for being SOCIALISTS and I am not about to try to explain why socialism is good, you can have all the socialism you want IF you don’t force me into your shit! I even did a show saying how private socialism can and does work, here it is http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/can-socialism-and-liberty-coexist

          Now this tax the rich shit is OLD and it is just stupid. The same money that put your democrats in power put the republicans in power. The entire shit about tax this or that group is about as meaningful as the WWE wrestling group and those that think it is real are just about as gullible as a billy bob wrestling fan that thinks body slams and close lines are real wrestling moves and people could survive such punishment if it was actually being done rather then a stunt. Seriously you are about as foolish as the total idiots in that Schiff video if you think the average democrat politician is going to EVER “tax the rich”.

          You live in a fascist plutocracy and until people like you and the average person on BOTH SIDES wakes up to it such debates are just plain stupid. It isn’t going to happen and even if “top tax rates are raised” it won’t matter rich people won’t pay more taxes, they are NOT GOING to the system both parties designed is set so the rate doesn’t really mean shit. We live in the nation with the HIGHEST corporate tax rate in the world now, yet the mega corps pay almost zero and people like you are SO DIM you really think raising the rate is going to matter? Lets see we taxed Apple at 37% last year and they paid NOTHING so what will they pay if we tax them at 47%, LMAO, really don’t you know what zero does to any multiplication problem. Why didn’t your boys “tax the rich” when they held super majorities for two years? How do you believe your own bullshit?

          If I were in charge the Federal Government would get 10% of sales as a tax and nothing more, that is far and away enough to fulfill their actual constitutional enumerated powers. We would not have to worry about being fair, rich people spend lots of money and would pay far more in taxes. But I am not so stupid as to think either republicans or democrats in office have any interest in such things.

          People like you seem to expect that the government should wipe our asses for us. No you won’t get that from me!

          Where do I disagree with the GOP, EVERYWHERE, they want to high of taxes just like the democrats, they like blowing up people and call it patriotic, just like the democrats, they want people who smoke pot in jail, just like the democrats, they want more surveillance of the American people and support the patriot act, NDAA etc, JUST LIKE THE DEMOCRATS, get it?

          I always say to listen to the ideas of others, we can learn from each other that way but NOT WITH GOVERNMENT USING A FUCKING GUN TO ENFORCE THE IDEAS OF THE TEMPORARY MAJORITY.

        • @Mike
          As a matter of politics, increasing taxes on the rich is probably the only way we would be able to pass large spending cuts. But Ben knows that soaking the rich will not be enough — taxes would have to go up for everyone. Or perhaps we’ll all just pay through inflation. Either way, I agree with Ben Stein that we’re past the point where we can simply “grow our way out.”

      • @ BeninMA, if you have a link, i’d love to hear it.

  11. I know you respect Sanders, that’s why I chose him to try to get through to you. Just because you say you’re above the fray doesn’t make it true. You need to follow that with action. I thought you made pretty good progress a few shows ago, but this one, going off on those idiots Democrats as if they were DNC Chairmen, is beneath my opinion of you.

    • Modern Survival

      Fuck off Mike seriously, I am fucking done with you. Tell you what asshole, go make your own podcast, get your own audience and fucking play anything you want on you show.

    • @Mike — After reading your posts here, it sounds like you’re more interested in slamming Jack for not doing a show that 100% reflects your own personal views than you are in finding common ground with him.

      Bernie Sanders may be a truth teller on the left, but he’s also a self-described socialist. Jack isn’t — he’s a libertarian, which is in many ways the opposite of a socialist. And while most Democrats may not be socialists, it’s true that many of them simply don’t understand economics at all (corporations = bad). To his credit, Jack spent most of his time trying to educate anyone who would think this way.

      I really give Jack a lot of credit for respecting people, like Sanders, who he disagrees with and even finding common ground with those who want to help the country find a different path. This is a VERY rare thing in America today. Frankly, I wish Peter Schiff would do the same thing — in many ways, Schiff’s Austrian economics is more in keeping with liberal values than the Keynesianism most liberals follow.

  12. You have a nice day, Jack.

  13. Over a year ago, Rand Paul said we could see a debt crisis “within five years.”

    http://youtu.be/hmFgeCun7sw
    (watch at 16:45)

  14. I can say I agree with Jack about 95% of the time, but the oilsands rant on today’s show was a massive fail, IMO. I looked at the pictures and basically said, ‘ya, so what?’. i see oil, dirt, trucks, and trees cut down. same question? ‘so what’? what exactly is the point here except that i see messy industry at work here. had i read this from a typical left viewpoint, my response would be simple: . knowing it came from Jack, my response is: ‘hmm, that’s unfortunate’. oh well, can’t get them all right.

    • Modern Survival

      @bubba, makes me sad that anyone thinks this is okay or that someone would call an area the size of England with ancient boreal forest “some trees”. It makes me sadder that just because I don’t believe in AGW I get lumped in with people that feel that way.

  15. ‘ok’ is somewhat relative. I wouldn’t say we should clear cut the area just for the fun of it. My figures might be slightly off, but i believe that in any given dry summer, there is a combined area in Canada being burned up by forest fires every summer the size of a small US state. Is this bad? I dunno. Maybe. I just don’t see a whole lot of mileage gained with the ‘but what about the trees’ argument. If this area was lost to a forest fire and went through a regrowth cycle, or if we clear cut it, use the oil, say ‘bugger off saudi arabia and friends for good’ and reforest it manually, how is this a bad thing?
    Until we’re off oil, it has to come from somewhere. And if America is ever to give the proverbial middle finger to the rest of the world who wants it to pay for and solve all its problems for it, it (America) must become energy independent. Canadian oil nearly accomplishes this.
    Either way, as always, great show Jack! keep it up!

    • Modern Survival

      @bubba you are a huge product of misinformation and false statements. I am not blaming you but your SOURCES of information.

      First we are NOT going to tell Saudi Arabia to bugger off and besides we already buy almost twice as much oil from Canada today as we do from the Saudis. We will never tell the arabs to bugger off, oil is the excuse for being in the middle east, NOT THE REASON. The two are very different. Venezuela and Nigeria are numbers 4 and 5 for importation. Both are not very US Friendly, neither are highly stable politically but we don’t have a military presence in either nation, do you have any idea why the discrepancy exists? We are in the middle east for Israel not oil!

      In support of this claim I submit this to you http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

      Second your contention that a forest burning down is the same thing but we get oil is so off it is hard to even address. A fire is a natural process, when it occurs most biomass is converted to char and ash and feeds the soil. Regrowth is insanely fast and native trees are the pioneers. Additionally when you hear (X acres burned) it is totally misleading. No 100% of the trees are not gone and do not burn down, to that I submit this photo of me in Colorado.

      http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150382617030240&set=pb.62357930239.-2207520000.1351023740&type=1&theater

      Fire had burned about 90% of the trees in the area but not all, here you see a burned tree hanging in a non burned one. Nature doesn’t work like Hollywood and the news says it does you know.

      In the end fire improves fertility and soil is retained. See the ROOTS remain after a fire. The water table is preserved, streams are not polluted, lakes not killed with sulfur, etc.

      See your problem is you believe this is a political issue vs. a moral issue. This is part of the great lie of dichotomy and flatly people like yourself largely think the way you do due to global warming alarmist bullshit, which is why I despise it so much.

      You really think we will be energy independent by strip mining Alberta right? Good reason to vote for Romney right? LIES, LIES, LIES and DAMNED LIES. We have no plan for energy independence and we could buy a much oil as we want from the Arabs with out a single US troop in on the ground in the middle east. There isn’t a nation out there that doesn’t want to sell the US their oil.

      • Jack, don’t you think we’ve been protecting the Saudi’s from Iraq, Iran, etc. because they could single-handedly destroy the petrodollar if we don’t? (If they stopped demanding dollars for oil…)

        In a way, this supports your larger point — even achieving energy independence wouldn’t change the importance of Saudi Arabia to the value and stability of the US dollar.

        • Modern Survival

          I don’t think the Saudis need our protection from Iran, not even a tiny bit. The Saudis can’t single-handedly destroy shit though and they have no desire to. Do the math and ask it how much money it would cost the Saudis a MONTH if we decided not to buy from them. God but people are so easily led to false conclusions. Who worries more, the person who might loose a large supplier or the person who might loose a huge customer? Do you think Venezuela likes us? Have they threatened us? Sure. Have they threatened to not sell us oil? Never.

          The Saudi Air Force could decimate the Iranians in seconds, the current Iraqi government is our puppet bitch and couldn’t even take out the Iranians before that.

          It is all neocon bullshit. There isn’t a nation in the world that wouldn’t love to have the US as an oil customer. Russia would LOVE to move up the preferred supplier list and they can produce far more then they are now.

        • Jack — You’re right, Iraq no longer threatens Saudi Arabia in any way — because WE twice defeated them in war. Saudi Arabia may be able to defeat Iran, but that doesn’t mean that Iran couldn’t make their lives very difficult, particularly if they become a nuclear power.

          My argument has nothing to do with the oil Saudi Arabia sells us. Even if we bought zero oil from the Saudi’s, if they stopped demanding dollars for oil, the rest of OPEC would probably follow. If countries around the world suddenly realized they didn’t need dollars to purchase oil, demand for dollars would crash, as would the value of our currency. I thought I had heard you talk about this, but I guess not.

        • Modern Survival

          Well first neither Iran or Iraq was ever a threat to Saudi Arabia, not in our lifetime for sure. The Saudi Air Force could have created a highway of death in Iraq just as easily as we did. The petro dollar stuff isn’t as important as it is made to be. India and China have both purchased oil with out dollars the world did not end. The most dollars spent on oil come from US anyway, get it?

        • Modern Survival

          What you are missing is dollars are only held for seconds in these transactions. Convert, buy, convert back. It gives us a trading advantage for sure but not enough to need to occupy the middle east.

  16. Ironically when I was looking at the tar sands pictures, another article caught my eye … about mining surphur from an active volcano … so there must be some demand for the yellow stuff .
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218525/The-men-risk-lives-day-mining-toxic-sulphur-active-volcano-just-3-day.html

  17. Jack, As you were describing the destruction going on while mining the Tar Sands, I immediately thought of Central PA as well. Probably because I live here. I’ve seen the massive slush fields left over where vegetation is non-existent. My BOL is land once owned by a coal company, and only a few miles from some of the first strip mines in the state in the mid 1800s. The stream that runs through my property has had massive efforts for over 30 years to clean the water, and we still can’t get any kind of substantial fish population back. The next stream over, Beech Creek still runs orange from the sulfur pollution you talked about.

    So I know first hand how destruction mining like this can be to the environment for 100s of years to come. It doesn’t have to be like this. We shouldn’t let it be like this.

  18. Jack, your piece in this episode on the tar sands was very moving — it was easy to hear how affected you were just by realizing the scale of destruction taking place in order to satisfy our endless thirst for fossil fuel energy. However, this whole enterprise reminds me of the story of what the Easter Islander who chopped down the last tree in order to move a statue must have said: “It’s a shame, but I have to do it….”

    I’m not at all discounting your account of Central PA and the effects of mining there, but we have an ongoing catastrophe in the US that is probably on at least the same scale as the destruction from the tar sands — mountaintop removal coal mining in Appalachia. The major coal companies are literally blasting the tops off of mountains and dumping the spoil into the stream valleys, flattening the very landscape there while polluting the streams and rendering the surrounding areas uninhabitable. It’s impossible for the people there to resist, because the coal companies own the government, the courts — they even write the textbooks for the schools, as Chris Hedges has pointed out on numerous occasions. They’ve owned that region and the people who live there for well over 100 years, ever since coal mining started there in earnest.

    Here’s a site I came across that shows some of the impacts of this enterprise on the ecosystems there: http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/

    This, along with the tar sands, is an environmental abomination. There’s really no other word to describe it. As you said in the episode, one day our kids and grandkids are going to ask us how on earth we allowed stuff like this to go on. What really pains me most is the number of people who are pushing for us to do MORE stuff like this — they’re the modern equivalent of those Easter Islanders who cut down the last trees, condemning their progeny to deal with the terrible consequences.

    Thanks for another great show.

    • Modern Survival

      @Chris, no one is more opposed to Mountain Top Removal and its evil fraternal twin Strip Mining, I speak against it almost every time AGW comes up but most are to concerned about the air we exhale to apparently hear it.

      I have said it over and over, there are dozens of reasons everyone or most anyway can agree on why this shit has to shift, that is my entire point as to why the AGW debate is actually empowering not stopping real pollution.

    • Modern Survival

      Or putting it more directly, Get this in your head folks I am not a fucking politician, you can take me at my word, I am not doing double speak, I actually mean what the fuck I say.

  19. Great stuff today, always love the monetary focused themed feedback shows. Uncle Ben came out today and reasserted low rates until 2015, so we know it’s just going to be more of the same, assuming he doesn’t lose control of this thing.

    WRT bugging out – I think there’s also a decision to be made with riots where you decide whether your bug-in location is worth defending and whether you have reasonable odds of defending it. Consider those Korean business owners standing their ground and saying “I don’t think so – not in my neighborhood” and being fairly successful with it.

    Another thing to consider is subscribing to an automated alert system. There was a guest on a while back that runs a pay-per one, which is fine, but there are also good free ones. I use Alert ID (alertid.com) and it provides alerts about things like crimes nearby to your home and even things like earthquakes. We’ve had several magnitude 3.5 quakes near me over the past couple weeks, and I would not have even known it if not for Alert ID sending me emails.

    Anyway, just a few thoughts. Thanks for another great show.

  20. “I want all the people that cheer when I say global warming is B.S. to understand it doesn’t abdicate our responsibility to take care of our environment and our planet.”

    I agree that this issue has been so politicized that it has hurt true environmentalists in a huge way. Thanks for stating this. Unfortunately I feel that every time I see an environmental message I have to hunt for that hidden political agenda as well. Wish they had never been married.

    Jack I recently began listening to your show and find it very enjoyable and informative. Thanks for all you do.

  21. Finished up listening. I’m happy to admit this is another one where instead of my usual 99% agreement, I’m at 95%. Of course I’ll pick at the 5% since to say “yeah… huh huh… what Jack said…” would be boring.

    The tar sands are in Canada. I was worried for a bit that Jack thought we had some legitimate right to say what should happen there, until he made a plea to Canadian listeners to make a change. So Ok I guess no difference there. Yes, it is horrible, but no, no UN involvement, no US bullying.

    Finally, the tar sands to me are a great case for what Kunstler is saying. Do you really think we’d be dicking around with this nasty ass source of oil if there were another choice? Peak oil isn’t about running out of oil – it’s about running out of *cheap* oil. The very fact that they’re screwing around with this stuff says that the easy stuff is *GONE*, no matter how much Glenn Beck wants to drop a well thru his living room.

    I disagree with the chance of going back to Little House on the Prairie being 0%. Jack you always say you don’t know the future, and neither do I, but the fact that they are resorting to this nasty ass source of oil – doesn’t that signify desperation? I don’t think Little House is 100% like Kunstler does, but I don’t think it’s 0% either – I think you’re foolish if you think that. As a scientist & engineer, I can tell you we have made a ton of advances using currently known power, but should that power become restricted or more expensive? The wheels of the cart could most certainly come off… technology is dependent on energy, not the other way around.

    All that being said, great episode, and I completely agree with not shitting on the earth, but I also completely agree with Canada’s right to shit on their part of it if they so choose.

    • Modern Survival

      @metaforge, the reason the chance is zero and it is zero is we now know what is possible. Once the genie is out of the bottle it will never go back in. Take away 50% of current energy output and you still don’t get Little House, it ain’t going to happen. In fact if you watch that show, specifically the later episodes you will see that the period itself didn’t last long.

    • Sorry still don’t agree with zero. Kunstler has a lot of points still valid. Technology & do-dads and increased selling shit to other people does not fix energy, so even if GDP goes up… Hey I’m not ultra doomer like Kunstler, but I do think it’s a possibility. At least as far as TWAWKI… sure, maybe we’ll be trading chickens. It’s something I prepare for too – I don’t think the probability is zero.

    • Put another way, the minute it takes more than a gallon of oil to extract a gallon of oil – done – shut up shop, go watch Duke Boys on the TV. Mostly. There may be some games with well we can use 0.8 barrels worth of nat gas to get a barrel worth of oil, that trade off may be made. That will be short lived. And you can dream about electrifying or nat gas’ifing the whole car fleet (including the truckers) but that’ll take trillions. Like you said, who’s got trillions? I don’t buy Kunstler’s bullshit third leg of CO2, but two legs are enough to tell us that’s it for happy-topia I think.

      • Modern Survival

        @metaforge, that ignores coal and natural gas and it is inherently flawed in and of itself. It ignores what can be done with wind, solar, geo thermal, tidal, etc, if indeed oil becomes to hard to extract.

        I mean I believe in “peak oil” I just think the curve is a hell of a lot longer then anyone wants to admit.

        There also was far more technology and international trade in the late Victorian age then Kunstler will ever likely want to admit which was not oil dependent as almost nothing other then lighting was using oil yet.

        Watch “Victorian Farm” on YouTube and you will see what I mean. Before we resign ourselves to the stone age we need to realize how much more we have in knowledge, technology and ability today then people did 150 years ago, and those people were very advanced technology wise, we lie to ourselves when we deny that.

        • No, it doesn’t ignore coal and natural gas, it merely respects the fact that everything we have today is based on liquid fuels, and specifically oil and oil derivatives. As I said, could you nat gas the whole world? Sure. Do we have the trillions to do it? No, we don’t. At least not to continue business as usual without interruption. I’m not saying it has to happen, as Kunstler is, but to say the chances are zero, you’re wrong. The truth is in the middle.

          As for civilization & losing knowledge, of course knowledge can be lost. Look to history – the Dark Ages. Stuff that was learned by the ancient Greeks & Romans – was it gone? Well I guess the monks may have preserved some of it, but for all practical purposes it was gone. How much of that was because it was literally gone vs. buried by dictatorial theocracy? That maybe we’ll never know. But I do believe some, not all, was literally lost – not just buried by the Pope to praise Jesus’ name so he could tighten his noose on the planet.

        • And you’re right about trade existing, and right that there was some pretty cool shit around before oil. I don’t deny that. But think about it – that stuff at the time was the state of the art. If we have to revert back to that level today, with the populations we have to support now, that’s not nearly the same proposition. I think that’s where Kunstler is coming from. The game has changed – it ain’t 1880 any more; and resorting to 1880 technology isn’t just an inconvenience, it is fatal to 21st century BAU.

  22. Christopher de Vidal

    Great comments on the false recovery. Regarding money velocity, here’s the very best analysis of what’s corked up the money flow that I’ve seen yet. It’s easy to understand and highly plausible.
    http://moneymorning.com/2012/10/18/qe-infinity-wont-work-but-heres-what-will/