Episode-874- Thoughts From Jack On The Great Lie of Dichotomy

How's This for a Choice?

How's This for a Choice?

Once in a while I just need to take the time to chat with you guys about what is going on and perhaps clean up some things from past episodes as well.

Today is such a day.  Likely as in most instances when I speak my mind I will tick some of you off, hence I ask you to listen to the second bullet point today with your heart and truly think about something I am going to describe and ask you to consider.

Survival is not just waking up alive the next day, plenty of people will survive the coming economic collapse for instance but how much misery will they endure that could be avoided, we will examine that and many other things today.  Hope you enjoy the show.

Join Me Today As I Discuss…

  • The new enzyme Steven Harris is bringing to market is a big deal
  • The great lie of dichotomy and a ridiculous scenario it creates
  • Why I believe the current economic system must collapse
  • What can we do between now and “economic doomsday”
  • Why many people will likely survive economic collapse in misery
  • Why I believe we should be optimistic and hopeful going forward
  • Who wins if people ignore reality
  • Who wins if people freak out
  • Who wins if people prepare
  • Why the next president won’t really make a difference
  • Why no one can fix the problem with the current system
  • What you should do for yourself regardless of who or where you are

Resources for today’s show…

Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon. Also please enter our listener appreciation contest and help spread the word about our show. Also remember you can call in your questions and comments to 866-65-THINK and you might hear yourself on the air.

60 Responses to Episode-874- Thoughts From Jack On The Great Lie of Dichotomy

  1. White.Buffalo - Doug Bergstrom

    Jack … once again – totally awesome.
    You covered the critical issues we all need to really begin addressing more-so (if we are not already). Just again – thanks for all you do … keep-on-keeping-on !!!!!!
    I was most impressed with the points to your answers with the one final point … “What you should do for yourself regardless of who or where you are …. ” – if we would all just begin to touch (even a bit) on your suggestions we would sure be in a better way.

  2. White.Buffalo - Doug Bergstrom

    Oh … you really ‘never’ …. “tick-me-off” = I just have learned and know that what you are sharing with us is the truth and it is to my peril if I do not listen carefully and do my best to apply what-ever …….. !!!!!!!

  3. Jack, I have not listened yet, but this and episode 869 foretells that you are sensing a sea change, sooner than later. Kinda like animals behave before an earthquake, or am I reading something into nothing…

    • I havent listened yet either (stuck in work) but my spidey sense tells me thats Jacks spidey sense is starting to tingle a little.

  4. Jack, a big part of the reason that I listen to you as much as I do (almost every show during my long commute) is that you’re the OPPOSITE of the false dichotomy that pervades our national discourse. There’s probably a good 10% or so that I disagree with you on — which means that there’s 90% in which I find myself in agreement.

    We’re all a mixed bag — which is why it’s so important that we reject false dichotomies, evaluate ideas based upon their merits, and keep an open mind to having our perspectives changed by other people’s arguments and ideas. If we still find ourselves in disagreement with certain things they say, we can throw it out while keeping those things we find valuable.

    I haven’t listened to the show yet, but I for one usually love it when you do shows like this. Keep up the great work, Jack!

  5. Bob Ambrose

    I didn’t mind Steve selling his wares on the show. If your listeners trust your show they should be happy that you had him on. I’m sure you vetted him. Now they “know” that they can trust him too. I’m new to prepping, like two weeks into investigating things and your show is very informative for a newbie like me. I’ll be joining the MSB very very soon.

  6. rich hutchins

    Excellent show Jack! I first started realizing that the left/right we/them was b.s. when I began to listen to conservative blogs & podcasts, even though at the time i considered myself very liberal, to validate whether or not my beliefs could be challenged. It immediately hit me that they would describe liberals they way many liberals describe conservatives. I knew I wasn’t a nazi communist, so if I disagreed with a blog that said the other side are nazis, I now had to accept that someone who agreed with the blog probably wasn’t one also no matter what moveon might say. the real problem was a system that doesn’t believe it doesn’t have to be this way. And i realized that they can be 2 or more valid sides to every issue, and it isn’t about right/wrong in each case. It could be about balance between the 2. Is steak good & chicken bad? I love both. So i can now think much more outside the box, and resolve issues without having to fall into line with a stifling belief system. And someone I disagree with isn’t evil because i disagree with them. keep up the great work.

  7. Hippiesteader

    Interesting quote I recently read on the internet – “Survival: The New American Dream”

  8. Jack this is the best show to date. Awesome! I noticed the false dichotomy years ago and have been trying to wake people up. It is very very important that people get this even more so than preparedness. This is a battle for your very mind.

  9. I love it when Steven Harris is on the show, I always learn a ton. I don’t mind him selling at all. Great show Jack.

  10. great show Jack.

    3 unrelated comments:
    1. The ‘presidential election’ is about who gets to drive the bus.. as it plunges over the cliff

    2. ‘Transition Towns’ are worth checking out if you want to help get your community ‘more ready’. They initially formed around peak energy, but their focus, more resilience through the localization of goods and services, ties right into preparedness. http://www.transitionculture.org

    3. Its a good time to develop ‘better stories’ about the kind of systems (at all levels, local to global) we DO want after the current ones go away. What’s our blueprint for anthill 2.0? When things get ‘harder’ there will be less time for reflection, and more decisions will be made out of expediency. If we already have a plan, we can reduce the possibility that our ‘short term fix’ will torpedo our long term plan.

  11. Richard Duhon

    Jack,

    If you have not checked out http://www.tragedyandhope.com/

    please do so. The first video they put out was called “Exposing the Noble Lie” Very similar to what you were speaking about today. They have since published many videos. Jack this is great stuff.

    Richard

  12. Backwoods Engineer

    Jack,

    You’re exactly right, this hybrid sugar-conversion / fermentation Constellatiom enzyme IS a big deal, and I am going to buy some as soon as Steve Harris has it for sale.

    Thanks for continuing to bring Steve on. He is my favorite guest, and you’ve had some really good guests on.

  13. Pingback: The Great Lie of Dichotomy | Don't Tread On Me

  14. Backwoods Engineer

    I didn’t vote for Clinton, but couldn’t stand GHWB or Dole. I voted for GWB, but only because I didn’t like Kerry and Gore. I didn’t for Obama, but I didn’t really like McCain.

    I’ve been voting for the “lesser of two evils” all of my voting life.

    NO MORE.

    This time, I vote my conscience.

    The federal government has become a self-aware, self-feeding, self-interested beast, and every President since Calvin Coolidge has added to it, some in large ways, some in small, but they all have.

    Right on, Jack. I’m solid with you on this one.

    • Dave (TwoCor)

      Wasn’t that the whole plot of the Terminator movies, with the exception that it was a computer? 😮
      ~TwoCor

  15. GREAT Show Jack!! Remember the drill sergeant patch? This we’ll Defend!!

  16. Awesome show. You expressed exactly what I’ve been thinking for some time now. I just hope more folks will wake up. I keep spreading the “gospel” of Jack everytime I can.

  17. Brent Eamer

    Brent in PEI here:

    Jack, I posted on the Facebook page, but will for listeners here, I think this is the pic you are referring to:

    http://dianneglave.wordpress.com/

    If you scroll down, it is the 2nd picture…

  18. Great Scot!

    Jack,
    Thank you for another great show. I was able to listen to it twice while driving at work. Yesterday you mentioned the two men who met at a gas station in Texas, their meeting prompted by one of them wearing his TSP tee-shirt. Today you mentioned that we in the prepper community need to connect and start building relationships. I have a suggestion – why not organize a nation-wide “Wear your TSP Gear Weekend” and see what happens, who knows how many of us might finally meet. I bet you’ll get some great stories, and some of us might even share a beer or two. Give us some time to shop the store first… What do ya think?

    • Great Scot!

      I did see a TSP sticker on the back of a car in NW Indiana one day, did my best to catch-up with him but the dude was flyin’.

    • Hey Great Scot. That’s a great idea. Maybe we could make it a regular thing like once a month for example first Sat of the month.

      BTW it was me that Jack was talking about but he mixed 2 stories together. I met 2 diff people in 2 diff locations 2 days in a row first was at an auto parts store in my town I was wearing my TSP shirt and a guy comes up and says he listens too.

      The very next day I went to Arlington TX to get Biodiesel and saw the Mil truck. I had just listened to the episode w Greg Bowlin (I think) about bug out vehicles. So I approach the guy to recommend he listen to TSP he laughed and said he already does.

      Ants are popping up everywhere.

  19. Great show! I was at a luncheon with our U.S. State Senator from Alaska yesterday and she made several interesting points that stood out to me. First, she commended us here in Southcentral Alaska in having, and greatly encouraged a strong community including many residents getting high tunnels to extend our gardening season and for producing more local food – emphasis on sustainability. Second, she basically warned us that even though we are in Alaska, as the Federal Govt gets deeper into debt, etc., etc, that our State will be more effected than we think. It’s because our State relies heavily on Federal money which we get because such a huge percent of our land is under federal control and because of our natural resources – basically the federal govt. pays Alaska more money because of this. I don’t know if she’s always said this in her talks because I just recently moved here from California. But it was a very thought provoking talk.

  20. .
    Jack

    Really a great podcast today.
    (I got a kick out of the Trek reference)
    Absolutely right. Dichotomy IS rampant in our society.
    Some things are “black and white”, but most fall somewhere in-between.

    (NO insult intended regarding my following thoughts, you should know by now how much I respect you.)

    I may have an idea why you are taking such a bold stand on not voting for the “not obama”,
    Consider this.
    Perhaps it’s because you are pretty much “All set” and feel secure with your homestead and preparations for “whatever SHTF or WROL scenario” , so , you don’t care any more about voting in the system, and have ejected yourself from it. You have supplies, property, weapons, resources, gold, silver, cash , etc.,
    … so, the impact caused by whatever ass-clown gets elected, and whatever policies they enact, will not affect you as much as they would if you were “not ready yet”.
    Maybe I’m wrong.
    Try and remember some of us feel like we’re facing an actual Kobayashi Maru, and we’re “not ready” with our preps- with no real means to get ready- at least not quickly and as completely as possible.
    So the only thing we feel we “can do” is try and “slow down” this madness and the effects of another 4 years of obamas destruction with our “less than perfect” vote for the other guy.
    And just quitting the crappy status quo assures the “much worse of two evils” and no one who suffers from that result will care about the “conscientious objectors” efforts.

    Imho, it is wiser to ‘keep fighting’ for the wheel with a third party over time, not just bail out, quitting now means obamanation wins by default.

    Remember, they’re hoping we just give up and go away, they’ll have no opposition at all—then just imagine what they can do.

    • Modern Survival

      @TrekFanDan

      Or perhaps it is simply that the state I vote in will go to one clown by about 10% and the only way for my vote to count for anything is to vote for option C.

      See that is the reality as I said earlier this week there are at most 10 states that will even be fought for by the clowns this time around. About 40 are already going to go red or blue. Thinking your vote for president will mean shit in one of them is just foolish.

      Again if you life in Ohio or Florida or another swing state and you really think Romney is even 1% better and that is good enough for you, go with your personal choice.

      I don’t why people don’t get this though, if 100% of the people who listened to TSP voted for Ron Paul as a write in it still wouldn’t really effect this election. I am not telling anyone what to do only what I am doing from now on.

      Also let me point out you are still clinging to the dichotomy.

      • .
        @ Jack

        – Some food for thought;

        Technically, “your choice” has already been “made for you” as well….
        Of the current pool of candidates, Ron Paul would be your choice.
        And Ron Paul himself is trapped in the “crappy Two Party system.”- (which you and I both hate, and the founders warned us about.)

        Even though he may “want” to run as a Third Party choice, he knows it is a numbers game, and is running as a Republican, because he knows to do otherwise would be futile. –
        – And, I’ll BET he himself backs the final nominee – “whoever” wins the electoral college – because he knows what more obama would bring.

        I like many things Ron Paul says, even though sometimes he makes my head hurt with the off the wall comments he makes. (And I’m NOT a Romney supporter. )
        You and I are pretty much on the same page on where we would “like” the country to be.
        So no, I’m not “still clinging to the dichotomy”. I just have a different opinion and view concerning a possible course of action of how to get out of it.
        And I DO get it. There is a war going on for the very soul of America, and Freedom and Liberty are at stake – now, more than any other time in our history.

        I personally fear the only way to get out of this mess will be an all-out insurrection -revolt- violent uprising, and that will be very ugly.

        • Modern Survival

          @TrekFanDan, I totally disagree, in my example I am voting for my choice of candidate the one I most agree with, the one who deserves my vote. In the scenario of a non swing state the vote for Romney or Obama is adhering the to the dichotomy with no hope of changing the results. Further the statement that is made is “we your sheeple will vote on party lines no matter what”. The statement I make is GO SCREW YOURSELF ASSHOLES.

          Now if you really believe Romney is the right guy, if you really think he would be a great president, vote for him. But if you think he is a complete sleazeball (as I do) and vote for him only because Obama is a slightly worse sleazeball, to me that is a truly wasted vote.

          I don’t know may be I haven’t been clear?

          FTR I don’t just not like Obama, Romney, Ging and Santi I see them as four stooges that don’t really give a shit about the nation. Self serving complete jackasses that are going to continue on the path of printing money, eroding liberty, wiping there ass with the constitution and in general assuring that this nation destroys itself. Some will pander left and others right but the destruction is the same, the results are the same and NONE of them deserve the honor of my “endorsement as a citizen” as that is what a vote is. I would abstain from voting for president if write in isn’t an option before I would ENDORSE a criminal as my commander and chief.

          That is how I view the four stooges! So with that how could you possibly expect that I would vote for any of them?

          Thank you as now I think I finally know how to explain this!

        • .

          @ JACK

          It looks like you did not fully read my last post at
          -TrekFanDan | April 6, 2012 at 1:56 pm –
          … or you skimmed through it too fast, as your reply did not even address what I said.

          My post was mainly about “Ron Paul” and how he himself is “caught up in the same mess” as the rest of us.

          You seem to be getting a little defensive and too rigid on this topic.
          All I am doing is expressing my opinion from a different angle on a podcast topic you brought up …and just following your own invitation at the bottom of every header of every podcast…
          …”Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon.”…

          …maybe political topics should be avioded if others opinions, views and ideas are not truly welcome or even considered.

    • In my state of Oklahoma we will vote Republican, it does not matter the candidate. Obama won 0 counties in the last election. So…my presidential vote simply does not matter.

  21. Jack, you asked if the Supreme Court ever reversed itself with a later decision.

    The one that springs to mind is Plessy v. Ferguson (1896) which was later reversed by Brown v. Board of Education (1954).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plessy_v._Ferguson

    There might be others that I’m not aware of.

    The principal at play here is “stare decisis”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stare_decisis

    • Modern Survival

      @Rich,

      Good find there and an excellent example. However, I must point out this is a case where the first decision was blatantly wrong and it needed to be turned over. Yet, point taken, it can happen. In this case it took 60 years and a change that allowed our nation to actually see people as people sufficiently to not withhold rights based on skin color.

  22. Jack,
    Your reference to the mental defect some people have that cannot ever have enough money or power is apt. They are called sociopaths. I came to the conclusion you’ve come to a couple of election cycles back. Something that Butler Shaffer wrote back in 2000 really clarified it for me, “When we vote in an election, we are declaring, by our actions, our support for the process of some people ruling others by coercive means. Our motivations for such participation – even if they be openly expressed as a desire to bring state power to an end – do not mitigate the fact that our energies are being employed on behalf of the destructive principle that liberty and social order can best be fostered through the coercive machinery of the state.” – Butler Schaffer
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer1.html

  23. Hey Jack, thanks for the Zombie Squad mention towards the end of todays show, I actually got started with prepping with Zombie Squad(I was already kind of on my way there, I just didn’t know the exact words to put to what I was doing) and found my way over to TSP and am MSB member. I’ve learned a lot from the show, and although I don’t always agree with you on Politics, the Dichotomy is completely clear; our government is just a sad WWE Wrestling Program to distract people who care about their country from the truth.

  24. Modern Survival

    @TrekFanDan,

    May be I didn’t get you but I am not too rigid, I am done with false belief systems while being fully and wholly willing to allow others to stay mired in them if they so chose.

    I responded to your first line, which was…

    “Technically, “your choice” has already been “made for you” as well”

    Again I completely disagree because MY CHOICE is just that, MY CHOICE, not someone else’s. I feel as in my opinion is if you vote for someone you absolutely don’t want then your choice was made for you, when you vote for what you believe your choice is made by you. It is really that simple.

    My response to you wasn’t about you it was because I realized I may not have been clear about how I actually feel about the current batch of self serving maggots running our nation into financial destruction and trashing our civil liberties.

    Again I don’t care who you vote for, I really don’t. I do think YOU should vote for someone YOU WANT though and not someone you don’t want less then the other guy, but in this republic the choice in the end is up to you and sir I would defend your choice to the death to preserve it.

    Am I rigid? You are DAMN RIGHT, and I think we need some more rigid men to find their fricken spines. Again that isn’t a statement on you, it is a statement on the people who have no idea why they believe what they believe.

    Lastly, my comment of “Thank you as now I think I finally know how to explain this!” was totally sincere, as in completely. I realize now that saying I don’t want clown A or B isn’t good enough. When I do discuss this I need to explain that I feel neither is worthy of my endorsement as a citizen. You get credit for that in a very sincere and appreciative way whether you wish for it or not.

    Remember text is the LOWEST form of communication.

    • .
      @ Jack

      I certainly don’t want you to compromise you principles and values.

      I’m just a thinker- tryin to find a solution out of the two party mess, and something came to mind.

      …the, “your choice” has already been “made for you” as well” , was only the premise of the point I was tryin’ to make shown below;

      > …Of the current pool of candidates, Ron Paul would be your choice.
      And Ron Paul himself is trapped in the “crappy Two Party system.”- (which you and I both hate, and the founders warned us about.)

      Even though he may “want” to run as a Third Party choice, he knows it is a numbers game, and is running as a Republican, because he knows to do otherwise would be futile. –
      – And, I’ll BET he himself backs the final nominee – “whoever” wins the electoral college – because he knows what more obama would bring. I personally fear the only way to get out of this mess will be an all-out insurrection -revolt- violent uprising, and that will be very ugly.<

      And that may bring the end of the "two party" system, …the question is – what system and who will fill the vacuum ?

      • …you’re right about “text is the LOWEST form of communication.”

        A whole paragraph disappeared out of the middle when I sent the reply above.

      • In Oklahoma you can vote Democrat or Republican ONLY for president…that needs to change. This dumbass or that dumbass. How encouraging.

  25. @TrekFanDan
    I read something in ‘Language in Thought and Action’ that I found useful.

    Utterances can have both extensional (referencing the physical world: ‘chair’, ‘red’) and intensional (exist only in our mind: ‘freedom’, ‘love’) meanings.

    If they are about things that ONLY have intensional meaning (freedom is good, x is ‘better’)..

    ‘..there is no way of ending the argument to the satisfaction of all disputants.. Therefore, knowing in advance that any argument on the subject will be both endless and futile, we can avoid getting into fights about it.. When on the other hand statements have extensional content (exist in physical reality).. arguments can come to a close’

    sorry for the big words :-/

    • .
      @ Insidious

      I’d like to think of it as “discussions among friends, on the battlfield of ideas”, rather than arguements.
      I have no ill will towards anyone here – (unless they’re a marxist, socialist or commie tryin’ to destroy the Constitution.)

      😉

      • lisapaintergirl

        @ TrekFanDan, I took both of what you and Jack said as a discussion among friends. I find sometimes clarification of details sometimes sounds like arguing when really both parties in the debate basically agree.

        Loved this show Jack- just shared it on facebook!

  26. Brent Eamer

    As a Canadian, it is difficult watching this all play out. It seems the United States is re-aligning, shifting, contorting, and since Jack has used the Star Trek Metaphor; I will too

    Genesis is taking place…

    We, as a North American Continent, are in this together.

    P.S. Approve that damm pipeline. I dont want our oil going to the Chinese.

  27. di·chot·o·my-1)division into two parts, kinds, etc.; subdivision into halves or pairs.

    2) division into two mutually exclusive, opposed, or contradictory groups: a dichotomy between thought and action.
    I disagree with the idea that there is a false dichotomy in politics in America today. You have two distinct groups and two distinct parties–a Party that represents the wealthy, the privileged, and the powerful that control almost all the resources in this country, and don’t want to share those resources with the masses, and a party that has members from all of the groups I just mentioned (aka. elites), that would like to see some of those resources spent on the masses instead.

    The Kobayashi Maru option is presented by many conservatives that think we are headed to the abyss economically, and that we can’t repair the problem because it’s just too large. That is also a false reality.
    We can fix the economic problems we face in the USA, but it requires sacrifice–from the elites–the wealthy, the privileged, and the corporations. We also have to stop our ideas of foreign interference and global hegemonic domination by our culture, our military, and our business interests, which are the true reasons why we have bankrupted America.

    Here is one formula for GDP, but this formula is the most relevant when we are discussing why our economy is struggling.

    {GDP} = C + I + G + {X} – M
    or
    GDP = private consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports ? imports)

    If you are bright, you don’t need to be an economist to understand this formula—you just need to think about what each part of this formula represents.

    Two things are very clear–to fix the problem we face, we need domestic investment and we need to increase our balance of trade picture to increase our revenues. The formula I just presented to you clearly shows this–consumption will only increase if those two conditions are met.
    Think about what the impact on global market share
    dominance for American Corporate interests have had on our use of the military to intervene to create new global markets, and the impact of globalization has had on the standard of living for those who work for wages in America. This is the real reason—THE REAL REASON–why we have massive debt, low job creation, and a drop in the the standard of living for most Americans.

    There is a complete denial from conservatives about this, We (American citizens) transferred the American Dream to every other country on the planet–which includes Canada, btw…and concentration of wealth and corporate acquisition by companies like Bain Securities (Mitt Romney, mr. Fake Plastic man) have eliminated competiton and created huge monopolies within the USA that have killed competition and created cartels that dominate every industry in the USA. Oil interests, Insurance companies, health care, medicine, pharmeceuticals—you name the industry—the privileged cotrol all of those resources and industries–and they don’t want to share those resources with demographic groups that they don’t want to share resources with.

    This can be fixed–I can tell you how to fix it, but there is no will to fix it from those who have power, because they don’t want to fix it. period.

  28. Kudos Jack for another outstanding show!!! I personally think that this show was one of the most insightful, thought-provoking show that you have ever done. Thank you!

  29. I’ve been thinking about this so much this past weekend after driving from town to town in our neighboring state, looking at land.. visiting the communities and walking their streets, talking to their residents. Finding where I belong is still a mystery for me.

  30. Jack,
    Long time follower and MSB subscriber. I’ll start by saying I respect and appreciate how hard you work to bring knowledge from a vast array of topics. I believe you are an American original, with all your hardcore opinions and your great spirit alike. You have been honest and direct with your listeners, so I will give you the same respect and be honest and direct with you.

    This podcast didn’t play well with me, as have a lot of these discussions on the forum. They are too simplistic and I believe we are better than that.

    There seems to be this mindset of ‘they are all just the same’ toward candidates. I agree we have way too many people of low character in politics. However, it is frankly lazy to say “they are all the same”.

    Anyone with any life experience understands that there is no perfect person or candidate. Including Dr. Paul. I agree with him more than any other candidate on the Fed, the size and scope of government, domestic policy. On the other hand, I find his foreign policy naive to the point of dangerousness. While I also want to greatly reduce our footprint outside the borders of the U.S., we live in a world of naval carriers, submarines, space weapons and ICBMs. Not to mention global trade. We are not living in the 1790’s where it took three weeks to send a few wooden ships from one country to another to intimidate or wage war. America’s enemies have and will in the future project force around the world, including to our shores and our allies shores. A modern military policy takes these facts into account. Including the basic physical, logistical reality that having at least a couple of staging bases in rational strategic parts of the world. That is a matter of physics and geography not ideology. Please do not misunderstand me, I want to reiterate that I want us out of most of the theaters we are currently in. Its just that Dr. Paul’s policy is naive and not well considered to me.

    Need I remind us that the military is one of the constituitional duties of the federal government. I must apparently hate social security and medicare, programs that were created by arrogant meddling of arrogant progressive politicians and are non-enumerated duties of the government, more than anyone else. And note that these are programs that are consuming more of our budget than the military and that we should be trying to end.

    I want to vastly reduce the size of government. But a government cut (not the phony “reduction in the growth rate” we have been getting from congress, including the Ryan plan) equivalent to 1% of GDP, for at least the next 5 years, is more prudent given an underlying 2% GDP anemic growth rate for the economy that is likely to continue due to structural changes. Dr. Paul’s trillion dollar cut ideas will decimate the economy to the point where we cannot revive economic prosperity since the economy will shut down. You have to keep the patient alive to cure him.

    Obama the same as Romney? Really???
    Obama- marxist/statist/maximal control to government. Put actual communists and Ma0-lovers in his adminstration. Was raised with a worldview shaped by Black Marxist Liberation theologians, anti-American academics, political associates have been domestic terrorists and racketeers
    Romney- free market proponent, limitations on role of government (I appreciate he has not been as aggressive as Paul in stating the desire to get rid of Dept Ed, Dept HUD, etc which by the way I support)
    Obama- sees all things through racial goggles (racist? can we know what is in a man’s heart), politicizes every issue as racial
    Romney- does not inject race into issues
    Obama- Apologizes for America at every world stage. Admits he does not believe in American exceptionalism
    Romney- Promotes the exceptionalism of America, without qualification.
    Obama- Has nominated and placed two of the least qualified, most extreme leftists to the supreme court, almost as bad as Ginsberg (don’t believe me, read the Obamacare opinions when it comes out in June- I will bet anyone 10:1 that Kagan and Sotomayer will vote in favor of this monstrosity which is 100% unconstituitional)
    Romney- favors constituitional protectors/originalists such as Roberts. The supreme court justices of the next 4 years alone are enough reasons to choose a candidate that will defeat Obama, since effects of the next president’s selections will live on for possibly decades. Given the times you say and we believe we are facing, we will need a court that will stand tall on the constitution. Are you not at least a little frightened of a court with 5 Ruth Bader Ginsbergs?
    Obama- the most corrupt Justice Dept in modern history. Refusal to prosecute Black Panthers commiting voting rights crimes on videotape and inciting murder, but spends enormous amount of time and resources going after Arizona which is trying to survive the nightmare of a federal government that cannot perform its constitutional duty to protect the borders. Eric Holder is a self-professed anti-gun statist. Fast and Furious I believe in my heart was created by Holder/ Obama/ DOJ/ DOS to create a fabricated reason to grab guns. Unfortunately for them (fortunately for us), they are so incompetent that it backfired and blew up in their face.
    Romney- gun rights advocate
    Obama- Take from the rich, give to the clueless. The “rich” (soon to defined as anyone making over $50,000 a year) are a bottomless pit to be taxed and regulated into submission.
    Romney- meritocracy, government as a safety net
    Obama- a bald-faced liar. Lied to the catholic bishops about forcing abortion coverage in Obamacare, also, “if we don’t raise the debt ceiling, I won’t be able to pay social security”- a factual lie, “if you like your healthcare coverage, you can keep it” – the motive for Obamacare was to take your healthcare coverage away from you in gradual steps until a single payer system would be put into place, “I won’t take any money in SuperPACs”, “no lobbyists in my administration”, “most transparent government in history”, “I will close Guatanamo”, “I will be a united not a divider”- he sets up class warfare and race warfare at every opportunity. The list is endless. Half of everything he says is a bald-faced lie or deceptive half-truhts. He is a pathological, cynical, snake-like liar, not just the typical politician that we all agree we hate that overpromises, then gets to DC and is influenced away from his positions. Obama has a hidden agenda (‘after the election I will have more flexibility’) that he is intentionally hiding and actively and deliberately lying about. To pull the wool over the eyes of at least his drone base and some fools in the middle. Was Reagan like this- no? You may have disagreed with Reagan, but you knew exactly what his true agenda was. If one cannot see the difference in integrity between Obama and a Romney/ Paul/ Bachmann/ Santorum who have an authentic core, then you need to do a little soul searching.
    Obama- utterly incompetent. Never accomplished anything that added value to anyone, unless you include rabble-rousing in Chicago and Harvard. Never held a real job. Gonzalo Lira called him the first affirmative action president.
    Romney- very competent. You don’t get to where he was in the private sector without a reasonably high degree of competence. Ron Paul, also competent. You don’t get to be a physician without actual competent since people’s lives are on the line (I am a physician myself, in full disclosure).
    This only scratches the surface of the differencesbetween Obama and Romney, Paul et al.. Please don’t equate Obama with Romney. You are more thoughtful than that.

    To underscore, I am not a Romney acolyte. My preferred candidate, Michele Bachmann, is out of the race. I would love Ron Paul as the secretary of Treasury- I would drive to DC to watch Secretary Paul take on the next congress.

    I will not have it on my conscience, and I will not look my children in their eyes and say that I did not do everything humanly in my power to get this marxist, lying, race-baiting, arrogant and utterly incompetent man out of my White House. Including voting for someone who is an imperfect candidate. I agree with you and most people paying attention that we are in for hard times. I will not help put someone into the oval office that has the power to make hard times into frightening and horrific times.

    Romney, assuming he is the nominee, may or may not be able to rise to the challenge of 2013-2016. That is unknown until a man or woman is in that position. I, like you, will die to support your right to freely choose your candidate. I appreciate your passion and sincerity. However, while I agree that the most important thing is to get our own house in order, I do care about who gets into office. I do think it matters. But I will not be voting for Obama by voting for a third party candidate who is somewhat less imperfect that the candidate that can get the worst and most dangerous president in modern history out of office. Our consequential times demand more serious thought than than.

    Your Friend,
    Mark Watson

    • Modern Survival

      @Mark, likely it didn’t play well with you because you are not yet ready to let go of the lie. Yes I do feel it is that simple. Your final thoughts say it all, as long as I have been alive I remember that every election was the “most important in our history” and the democrat has always been labeled as the “most dangerous/most liberal ever.

      Perhaps one day you will let go of the myth you have been sold brother, until then at least you are on the path.

      • I tend to agree with Mark on several points. The growth rate of the US economy is very weak. We aren’t in a “recession”. It feels recessionary because the growth rate is so low. But we need to remember what GDP is. Every component in GDP is about spending. to quote:

        “The first thing to remember about GDP is that it is most commonly calculated as the sum of expenditures in the economy.”

        The obvious conclusion is that cuts in expenditures don’t create growth. This is why Andrew Mellon and “Hoovernomics” were a failure in the great depression. This is why Austerity in Europe is failing today. This is why our economy has sputtered as well, and that the last quarter of 2011 shows a contraction of growth because of cutbacks by Government expenditures.

        But the real problem in the US economy is the lack of investment within the borders of the United States of America by our own corporations, and the trade deficits we run with other countries because we don’t produce enough exports. The spending has to occur HERE, not offshore. Period. The changes in the tax code have to reflect this. And the changes in the tax code that will increase revenue ARE NOT about cutting corporate tax rates like the conservatives keep promoting. Revenues from the corporate sector have continued to drop for decades–tax revenues from corporations were at 6% of GDP at one time— now it is less that 2%. The profits are at all time historic highs , however—because the tax code is broken and the investments and job creation within the USA aren’t occurring. There is no correlation between profits, GDP growth, and employment anymore. Until you fix that, you will run deficits as far as you can see.

      • Modern Survival

        @Mysterion keep believing the top numbers your government feeds you if you want, lying is easy when people want to believe the lie. Sounds to me like you have been listening to one too many Fox News Experts (Have to laugh at the term expert hold on)

        Okay back now, so were are growing just slowly is your contention, REAAAALLLY, you base that on numbers from your over lords do you? Welp, how does this bend you? What if we took 13% away from the GDP, where would we be then? Further should we consider the production of money by the Fed part of the GDP? I mean is there anything productive to it? It is just printing money after all and not even paper money. So here you go.

        http://www.theospark.net/2012/03/not-watching-news-523from-rico.html

        What does this FACTOID do to your slow growth that we just need more investing to fix?

        “The FED has gone from 6% of US GDP to 19%.

        – This is ‘false’ growth without which the US GDP would net 13% lower. The FED’s “monetization of debt” coupled with the continued disappearance of “money good” assets and job elimination means that any further ‘growth’ can only be accomplished through more currency dilution.”

        So if we honestly looked at the GDP and took away the 13% where would it put us, recession my ass, depression is more accurate. But go ahead and keep believing what they put in front of you on the TV. I mean this is all just math and solid accounting it can’t compare to media spin right?

        Great lie of dichotomy indeed! D or R, C or L, Fox or MSN, LOL!

  31. Here’s that black and white photo of that woman from the Great Depression.

    http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/8b29516v-11.jpg

    • Modern Survival

      @Oil Lady, she doesn’t look 32 years of age does she. As striking as that picture is knowing her age makes it frankly haunting to me.

      • I don’t watch Faux News. I want the facts, not rhetoric. I’m smart enough to decide for myself what the truth is when I’m presented with the fact. I do understand economic theory well enough to understand how to fix some of the problems we face.
        What I presented is basic Econ 101.

        Think about what I said, not about ideological views. There are alot of views that libertarians espouse I oppose, but there is something that most libertarians do understand about foreign intervention and sovereignty I agree with. Just use your own common sense–a dollar invested in China is not invested in America. Alot of this global market focus isn’t about development of our economy–it is about the development of competitors economies. The things we do need are generally commodities (aka., natural resources) that aren’t available in the usa–rare earths, lithium, strategic metals like platinum and beryllium, and petroleum.That should be what we should focus on in our participation in global markets–not increasing market share at the expense of the american workforce.

      • Modern Survival

        @Mysterion so you just totally ignored the FACT that the Federal Reserve has expanded from 6% to 19% thereby accounting for 13% of current GDP. I will retract my comment about Fox or the MSN as your source but no matter your source your contention that we are not in a depression is mathematically false. How do you respond to that?

        How do you reaspond to the fact that 13% of the current GDP is FAKE even based on establishment numbers?

        Can you admit to being wrong about this not being a recession or do you want to continue to ignore math?

        I have LOTS of respect for you based on past comments so I am expecting you will accept the mathematical reality I presented or if not at least confront it with fact proving the numbers wrong, as I am open to that.

  32. Jack,
    I think you and Mysterion and I agree more than we disagree. This has been a discussion of how to get there. You are absolutely correct that the Fed is artificially inflating the economy. In fact, the most scary thing to behold in the past few weeks is how the market drops and spikes depending on what was in the Fed minutes or what the Fed is leaking to the media. What?? When did we stop valuation of companies listed on the NY Stock Exchange based on what some ‘innocent little money supply agency says or thinks’ versus their actual sales and profit margins? QE and ZIRP is the new heroin it seems.

    You and I and Mysterion apparently agree with the trajectory and end goal. The differences is that I believe that trillion dollar cuts in “G” of GDP (about 7% of GDP) will collapse the economy in the short term, resulting in rioting and people begging for a strongman leader and radicals ruling (France’s hard left socialist candidate is leading the upcoming French election and the French haven’t even begun to feel the necessary pain of European deleveraging). 1% GDP ($150-160 billion) true cuts per year is radical, and very big (bigger than Paul Ryan’s so-called cuts). 1% GDP will come with pain. But it is sustainable economically. You say you are for sustainable living. This is sustainable. It took 100 years to wind up this massive state, it will take at least a few years to unwind it. You are correct that if we let all this unwind in just a year or two it would result in a depression (actually the worst depression ever). To be clear, I’m ok with that personally and for my children’s future and country would be willing to endure great suffering. If it were just you, me and the MSBers, I know we would be fine. And it is mathematically inevitable that if don’t get our nation’s balance sheet on track soon (agree with your 1-2 years best guess), depression will be forced upon us suddenly and catastrophically ala Greece. I’m just advocating for the more sustainable and less chaotic path. I admit that Romney doesn’t openly advocate for a 1% GDP cut. I believe there is a finite chance, not a certainty, that he with a Tea-Party foundation in the Republican party could get there. With Obama, there is no chance. And there comes with him great danger and pain. He is all in for statism. I will vote for a chance, even if the odds are tall, instead of voting for no chance.

    Mysterion makes good points about investments. Just appreciate that we live in a global world that has capital looking for the cheapest place to make goods. On a parallel track, technology is replacing/ reducing the need for jobs (and increasing productivity which is good for companies, bad for jobs), a problem that even the Chinese and Indians will have to struggle with. The key is to simply make the U.S. attractive from a cost i.e. salaries, taxes and regulatory comparison. Companies are rational, and some are even patriotic. Romney and Paul want to reduce burden and taxes, Obama wants to relentlessly increase regulations and taxes, Obamacare, Dodd-Frank and Cap and Trade are factual evidence not theory. Apologies for not invoking the myth, I temporarily forgot that everyone is the same. I’m radical enough to say we will need to cut spending and increase revenues by repealing deductions, subsidies and vastly simplifying the tax code. This will make everyone including businesses, the rich and the 51% who don’t pay taxes unhappy. But it’s the right thing to do. About 3:1 is a good start.

    God bless you and your mission. Please look me up and come by for a beer and a good discussion if you are ever in the Plymouth Meeting, PA area.

    Mark Watson

    • Modern Survival

      Mark, check out all the class warfare nonsense you are holding onto. 51% don’t pay taxes do you REALLY believe that? They may not pay “income tax” but I could list 100 odd taxes they do pay, many that go to the federal level.

      I am telling you this crap where your fellow American is really the root of the problem has GOT TO GO. That is neither here nor there though, your post is fine in and of itself but ignores my point and counter to the original post. All I am responding to here is the contention that we are not in a recession/depression because the GDP shows slow growth but growth. Technically if you have growth in GDP there is no recession.

      However as I pointed out the Fed accounted for 19% of the GDP in 2011 vs. a typical rate of 6%. Again this means that 13% of the GDP is totally fake, this isn’t simply as you content “the Fed inflating the supply”, this is total Fed activity counting as part of our “production” as a nation. I do agree that the three of us agree more than we disagree but I don’t think either of you get this point and actually understand what it REALLY Means.

      This mean we were told the GDP rose about in each quarty of 2011 by the following Q1 .4%, Q2 1.3%, Q3 1.8% and Q4 3%, this would give a GDP growth in 2011 totaling 1.6%. That is Mysterion’s entire point, 1.6% is pathetic growth but it is growth hence it is not a recession it just “feels like one”.

      See math doesn’t lie though! We take 1.6% and subtract 13% (the fake number from the Fed activity) and we get a growth rate in 2011 of what? – 11.4%

      What that means is the real GDP in the US fell by 11% a LOSS a FALL of 11% in 2011.

      So you guys can go on about investing, pushing companies off shore, some guy you think doesn’t pay enough taxes, etc all you want. To me those are minor points, they are political talking points, they don’t have anything to do with the real issue. This system is collapsing on itself. There is no turning back at this point, the reset button will have to be pressed soon.

      Be ready for more bullshit when it happens, they will tell you it is everyone’s fault by yours, funny thing is the guy standing next to you will get the same message and think you did it.

  33. Sorry for the double post- please delete the earlier one. Warning- klutz at work!

  34. Dave (TwoCor)

    Did anyone do the political cartoon you mentioned Jack? I didn’t want to redraw the wheel…
    Dave (TwoCor)