Episode-569- Listener Feedback 12-13-10

So on a Monday what else would we be doing but answering your emails and questions.  Today we have great ones like getting started hunting as a teen, life insurance on kids, more proof that the global warming scare is total bullshit and more of your questions and commentary.  To be on a show like this send your email to jack @ thesurvivalpodcast.com with “question for jack” in the subject line.

Remember if you have a question and background information ask the question (in one to two sentences first) followed by your background information.  Due to extremely high email rates this will give you the best chance of getting your email on the air.

Join me today as we discuss…

  • Is there any reason to have life insurance on kids at all
  • Is water fluoridation required by law or simply local policy
  • Are gemstones a good way to invest as an alternative to gold and silver
  • How does Goldman Sachs profit from Quantitative Easing
  • What is a basis point
  • Would hyper inflation eliminate counterfeiting
  • Thoughts on an impromptu BOL
  • A car and an inverter for back up power, the good and the bad
  • Knife or pepper spray for EDC defense when a gun is not an option
  • Pepper spray use by a civilian vs. by law enforcement
  • Getting vinegar smell out of a five gallon bucket
  • The good and bad of tankless hot water heaters
  • Double CO2 apparently ain’t all bad, more on global warming BS
  • The real pollution from things like coal no one talks about any more
  • Thoughts on hyperinflation
  • The dangers of private security forces like XE on American soil
  • Self policing a community during a SHTF and compliance with LEOs
  • Getting started with hunting and gun ownership for a teenager
  • Why paying bills can be fun, at least for a while
  • Dealing with hygiene and parasites during a SHTF

Resources for Today’s Show

Remember to comment, chime in and tell us your thoughts, this podcast is one man’s opinion, not a lecture or sermon. Also please enter our listener appreciation contest and help spread the word about our show. Also remember you can call in your questions and comments to 866-65-THINK and you might hear yourself on the air.

29 Responses to Episode-569- Listener Feedback 12-13-10

  1. A big part of dental hygiene is eating good food. Avoiding eating too much sugars and grains which are food for bacteria, and eat lots of stuff you need to chew on like vegetables, which will clean your teeth.

  2. http://fluoridealert.org/mandatory.html

    Mandatory Laws:
    |Twelve states, Puerto Rico and the District of Columbia have laws intended to provide statewide
    fluoridation. These states and the year that the fluoridation legislation was passed are listed below:

    District of Columbia (1952)
    Has only one water system and it has been fluoridated since 1952.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 100%

    California (1995)
    Fluoridation is mandated for communities of 10,000 or more service connections (estimated 25, 000 population).
    “Outside” funds must be found for purchase, installation, and operations of the fluoridation system.
    The law does not address water supply wholesalers.
    The law sets a MCL of 2.0 mg/L.
    California’s law cannot be enforced unless “outside” funds are made
    available to the community for purchase, installation, and operation of the fluoridation system.
    UPDATE:
    • Implementtion of mandatory fluoridation began in 2007 affecting approximately 18 million Southern Californians.
    • Recommended range of 0.7 to 0.8 part per million
    • 2006 rates for California population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 27.1% (9,881,390 people)
    * see FAN’s California NewsTracker

    Connecticut (1965)
    set lower limits on the size of the communities which must comply.
    Fluoridation is mandated for communities with populations of 20,000 or more and
    natural fluoride content of less than 0.8 mg/L.
    Fluoridation levels must be maintained between 0.8-1.2 mg/L.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 88.9%

    Delaware (1998)
    Fluoridation is mandated for all municipalities but not rural water districts. State
    funds will pay for fluoridation equipment, but not chemicals, for three years from
    date of passage of the law. Delaware, which had previously passed a mandatory law in 1968,
    changed it to require a referendum in 1974, then changed it again to a mandatory law in 1998.
    Delaware provides funds for fluoridation equipment for 3 years from the date of passage of the law.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 73.6%

    Georgia (1973)
    Contain provisions which allow a community to exempt itself from compliance with the
    State law, if a community decides it does not wish to institute this public health measure.
    Georgia’s law cannot be enforced unless money is made available to the community by the state.
    Law mandates adding fluoride to all incorporated communities.
    The fluoride level must be no greater than 1 ppm.
    Exemption to fluoridation is by referendum.
    The law provides for “non-compliance” unless state makes funds available for the
    cost of the fluoridation equipment, the installation of such equipment and the
    materials and chemicals required for six months.
    The law provides tax deduction for cost of device to remove fluoride if person
    deemed allergic and advised by physician or approved by the Department of
    Human Resources.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 95.8%
    • Georgia water worker fired on Nov 20, 2008, for refusing to purchase and add fluoride to water system

    Illinois (1967)
    The law provides for addition of fluoride according to rules of the Department of Public Health.
    The fluoride levels must not be less than 0.9 or more than 1.2 mg/L.
    Regulations specify adding fluoride to all water supplies when the fluoride
    concentration is less than 0.7 mg/L.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 98.9%

    Kentucky (1966)
    Kentucky statutes clearly delegate powers to the State Board of Health to adopt regulations
    necessary to protect the dental health of the people. Under this law, Kentucky established
    standards for approval of public water supplies. These administrative regulations have been
    challenged in the courts and upheld. Administrative regulations states that fluoridation is required
    for all communities with a population of 1,500 or more.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 99.8%

    Louisiana (2008)
    UPDATE:
    • The state Legislature approved and Gov. Bobby Jindal recently signed into law Act 761, that requires
    Louisiana public water systems that serve 5,000 or more customers to add fluoride to drinking water.
    • Act 761 states that utilities are not required to move ahead with fluoridation unless the state
    identifies sufficient funds to cover those costs.
    • The new law also allows residents to opt out of fluoridation through a petition
    signed by at least 15 percent of registered voters and a municipal election.

    Minnesota (1967)
    Fluoridation is mandated for all communities except where natural fluoride content
    conforms with established regulations of the Board of Health.
    Fluoride levels are to be established by Board of Health regulations.
    Regulations set levels at Aaverage concentration of 1.2 mgs. per liter@ and
    neither less than 0.9 mgs. nor more than 1.5 mgs.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 98.7%

    Nebraska (1973)
    As of 2000: Contain provisions which allow a community to exempt itself from compliance with the State law,
    if a community decides it does not wish to institute this public health measure.
    The law mandates adding fluoride to all political subdivisions.
    It provides an exemption by adoption of an ordinance by initiative. Fluoride is not
    to be added if the drinking water has a concentration of 0.7 mg/L or greater.
    Fluorides must be maintained in the range of 0.8-1.5 mg/L; optimum range 1.0-1.3 mg/L.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 69.8%
    • In April 2008, the Nebraska Legislature passed LB 245. This piece of legislation requires all cities
    with a population greater than 1,000 to add fluoride to their water supply by June 1, 2010.
    The legislature included an opt out provision into LB 245. Either by vote of city council or public petition,
    the question of fluoridation can be put to the vote of the people.
    • Summary of Nov 4, 2008, Fluoridation Referendums: 80% (49 out of 61) communities voted against fluoridation.
    • FAN’s NewsTracker on Nebraska.

    Ohio (1969)
    Law mandates adding fluoride to systems supplying a population of 5,000 or more when natural
    content is less than 0.8 mg/L
    The system must maintain a fluoride level between 0.8 and 1.2 mg/L.
    Ohio has provisions which allow a community to exempt itself from compliance with
    the State law, if a community decides it does not wish to institute this public health measure.
    Ohio, placed a time limit of 240 days on the period during which a referendum concerning fluoridation could be held.
    Ohio provides funds for fluoridation equipment and chemicals.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 89.3%

    Puerto Rico (1998)
    by the passage of legislation in 1952, provided money for adding fluoride to the
    water of those aqueducts of the Island of Puerto Rico as may be suitable therefore, as a
    preventive to dental caries. This, in effect, made fluoridation mandatory in Puerto Rico, but it
    was not enforced and as of 1997, there was no water fluoridation in Puerto Rico. In September
    1998, the Governor of Puerto Rico signed into law a mandatory requirement for water
    fluoridation. It will be implemented in phases and by the year 2000, 75% of the population in
    Puerto Rico should be drinking fluoridated water.
    2008 UPDATE: While FAN is not aware of any fluoridation scheme in Puerto Rico, in 2006,
    the Association of State andTerritorial Dental Directors selected the communities of
    Barranquitas, Cayey, and Fajardo-Ceiba for the 2006 Community Water Fluoridation Award Recipients.
    NOTE: “Water fluoridation was instituted in Puerto Rico during the years 1953 and 1954.
    However, during the latter part of the 1980’s, water fluoridation was discontinued due to budgetary constrains…”

    South Dakota (1969)
    Fluoridation is mandated for all communities of 500 or more except where natural
    fluoride content conforms to State Department of Health regulations.
    Regulations specify adding fluoride when the natural content is less than 0.9
    mg/L and requires the system to maintain the fluoride concentration within a
    range of 0.9 mg/L to 1.7 mg/L with an average level of 1.2 mg/L.
    Public vote by special election was allowed, if petition filed within 120 days of
    passage of the law. Special election to be held within 90-120 days after date of
    filing petitions. Provides for reimbursement for actual cost of acquiring and
    installing equipment, excluding chemicals.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 95.0%

    Nevada (1999)
    Nevada passed their law to apply only to counties over 400,000 population and only to water
    systems in that county that serve a population of 100,000 or more. This applies to 4 water
    systems in Clark County [Las Vegas]. The law also requires an advisory question must be placed
    on the ballot in that county at the general election of November 7, 2000, to question if
    fluoridation of the water should cease in any water system in that county. State regulations
    required waters systems in Clark County to fluoridate by March 1, 2000. Fluoridation passed in
    November 7, 2000.
    It requires the fluoride level to be maintained between 0.7 mg/L and 1.2 mg/L. It also exempts any
    well that is less that 15% of the total average annual water production of the water system.
    The law also required a referendum to be held in Clark county on November 7, 2000 to determine
    if fluoridation should be discontinued. Fluoridation was approved on November 7, 2000.
    Nevada, which had passed a law in 1967 requiring a public vote before fluoridation, changed their
    law in 1999 to mandatory fluoridation in all counties with populations greater than 400,000.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 72.0%

    OTHER:

    Michigan (1968)
    passed a mandatory state law in 1968, with a lower limit population of 1,000 on the size
    of the community which must comply, but in 1978, changed their law from “shall fluoridate” to “fluoridate.”
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 90.9%

    Massachusetts
    Law enables a community through a Board of Health order to implement fluoridation. Implementation is
    subject to a 90-day waiting period during which a petition for referendum may be filed.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 59.1%

    Maine (1957)
    have laws which require a public vote before fluoridation can be instituted.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 79.6%

    New Hampshire (1959)
    have laws which require a public vote before fluoridation can be instituted.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 42.6%

    Utah (1976)
    have laws which require a public vote before fluoridation can be instituted.
    2008 UPDATE: Population receiving optimally fluoridated water: 54.3%

  3. Some additional thoughts on life insurance for kids: if you ever lose a child, you’re not likely to want to return to work for a very long time. Life insurance can provide you the umbrella to enable you to stay home as long as needed.

  4. Jack,
    One thing that is scary about coal is it has byproducts higher in radioactivity than nuclear waste. Yet, we have idiots protesting the building of nuclear power plants. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste

  5. Hey Jack, great show. As a person who has lived with the tankless water heater, I can’t give them high marks. We had one that serviced our 2 bathrooms and a second for the laundry and kitchen. They are temperamental and we ended up going through 4 of them in less than 5 years before we figured out that we needed a pressure regulator to keep from blowing up the heat coils. We finally decided that our best bet was a compromise.. for space reasons, we kept the on-demand heater in the laundry room, but put in a regular water heater in the bath area.

  6. Thanks for answering my question about the inverter. I figured there were some limitations. What inverter would you recommend? PS: Gif is pronounced like Jif peanut butter 🙂

  7. I have the Bosch WR430-3K and have had it for five years now. I like it, but every once in a while I have to fine tune the screw that determines when exhaust fan shuts off after a few seconds after turning the tap off; otherwise it will run for close to an hour. A 100 lb tank of propane lasts me a bit over a year. I use the woodstove for my dishwater and even adjust the water level in my washing machine and pour hot water heated on stove, this results in a warm wash. I also heat water on my woodstove for dishes six months of the year. Total how water cost for me is about 70 bucks a year.

  8. LEARN SAFE SHOOTING and a bit of history too.

    Good answer to Aden’s question. Take a look at Appleseed. We take folks from “just picked up this rifle on the way here” to shooting sub 4MOA groups in 2 days.

    When the student is ready, the teacher appears.

    This is a non profit group, and 100% of the work is done by selfless volunteers. We want all Americans to learn learn to shoot safely, and hear some first hand tales of the sacrifice our fathers & mothers endured so we would have this right.

    If you PM the shoot boss in your area and ask, you can usually get a loaner LTR (Liberty Training Rifle) for use at the event. Laws are different in each state as to age and who can loan you a rifle so just ask the local shoot boss. If you really want to learn, and your folks are cool with it. We’ll make it happen for you.

    We had a 7,8,9 and 12 year old at our last event in Oregon. By the end of day 2 the 7 year old was shooting a 135 on the Army Qualifying Test – scoring Marksman.

    Being young and flexible, with an open mind and teachable attitude goes a long way to becoming a Rifleman.

    Good luck! Hope to see you on the trail some day.

  9. @TheNorthernSurvivalist:

    Pretty sure CPS was there for the beating allegations and not the organic food or fluoride free water. I have a good friend who works for the county and let me tell you she has WAY WAY WAY bigger fish to fry and doesn’t give a rats bum about organic food or fluoride.

    Thanks Jack for featuring my question on tankless water heaters. I see your point, however, other than the extra hot shower when the power goes out, I think that a prepared type person could have better backup water sources and save oodles of money on water heating by going tankless. These might be best in a bugout or cabin situation where you go up for the weekend and don’t need/want to waste all that propane and time to heat up an entire water heater. Then again the best option is to not spend a penny and go solar!

  10. @ Matt H

    The CPS flipped on his bug out bag too. I want to hear a follow up on this. If there is any truth to the article in question.

  11. FYI on life insurance for kids: this can be a good financial move for a child in the event that he or she develops a medical condition later which might preclude them getting a policy on their own or cause them to pay much higher rates. The rates on policies for children are very low and a policy already in force can not be cancelled for a later medical reason; the child can assume payments when they grow up, ensuring coverage.

    Hot water: if you have an electric heater, wire in a 24-hour timer and run it for just the hours you need hot water. Extra insulation outside the tank will make a positive difference, as well as pipe insulation for a few feet away from the heater to prevent radiant loss through the piping. This is available at hardware stores, is very cheap and easy to install.

    If you have a freestanding hot water heater and you live in an earthquake zone (and many of us do!), secure them to the wall to minimize the amount of property damage or injury caused by seismic activity.

    For more great tips, go to http://www.disastersafety.org, type in your zip code, and get a list of the most likely threats in your area along with specific information to prepare for and mitigate likely problems.

  12. Insane_Libertarian_Wacko

    Very good advice for the kid looking to get into hunting. At 15 years old, there are few options for people in most states.

    Check with your high school. When I was a kid, I joined the JROTC program. If your school has one, (or the program exists in another school you can access), I highly recommend looking into it. Also check with your local college, many will allow high school students into an ROTC program, or similar junior police program.

    My instructor was exceptional. At 14, I had hands on experience with several types of firearms, had been repelling off of towers and cliffs, and all the other “fun stuff” people associate with military training.

    There is a huge difference in the quality of programs, and it all comes down to the dedication of the instructors. As I said, my instructor was great, but there are many who are looking to kill time until retirement by hiding in classrooms. Check them out before signing on. None of the fun stuff, and certainly none of the gun handling will happen in a public school these days, but in my case those experiences were conducted on weekend and summer trips to military bases. My brother didn’t have access to ROTC programs, but did the junior police training and had similar experiences.

    Sadly, in many areas these programs are vilified as recruiting pools for the government. That is absolutely false. I never went into military service, specifically because of the program. I guess once you’ve jumped off of 200′ towers and qualified as expert on the range, the recruiting videos lose their luster. But it has instilled in me a profound respect for those who do chose to serve, and the class was by far the most useful bit of education I received during my schooling.

    Back to the point, they’ll teach you to shoot a gun, give you plenty of practical experience and safety training. You’ll also meet people with similar interests, making it easier to find supplemental experiences and training. You’ll also build references, which are a necessity in many states to get various permits. In my state of NY for example, you need references from 5 other gun owners to get your concealed carry permit, which they require for essentially any hand gun. Someone who’s asking here about how to get trained probably doesn’t have five gun owners in their life they can go to for references. Hopefully he doesn’t live in a state run by whining anti-gun nazi bitches, but knowing other gun owners helps anyway.

    If the primary interest is in hunting, rather than marksmanship or general gun ownership, there may be other options. Depending on your state, there are various permissible trapping methods. As a kid, I snared many a rabbit in the winter. There’s also fishing, and again, depending on the state, bow hunting may be an option at a younger age.

    Parental supervision is a given here. It’s not that I believe a 15 year old can’t be trained to behave safely or responsibly, but laws are laws, best to cover your ass. Besides, there are many good reasons not to hunt alone, just for personal safety. As an adult who knows the woods, I don’t go more than about 2 miles into them alone for the simple reason that if I fell or was injured, no one would be able to find me. If someone else is going along on the hunt anyway, it may as well be a parent or experienced adult.

  13. I have a few points to make for the questions asked today.

    On the Gemstones.
    I talked to my friend who works jewelry at a pawn shop. He told me that they will only pay $1.00 per point with a minimum of 10 points for diamonds.
    In other words, if it ain’t at least 1 carat they don’t even take it into account.
    I also know they give near nothing for most other stones unless they are top quality & large!

    Getting vinegar smell out of 5 gallon buckets.
    Don’t bother, it isn’t worth the effort, I know!
    You can still clean them out & use them for other things where smell is not a factor.
    They make great buckets for your seeds to be saved in. They are Food Grade & the seeds don’t care about the smell 🙂
    They also make for excellent toilet buckets.
    Again, the poop won’t give a crap about the smell 🙂
    On the same note, when using buckets for a toilet.
    Keep 2 buckets, one for going in & the other to hold content for covering up your excrement.
    Some things that work well are sawdust, mulched leaves & good old dirt.
    If you use dirt, then the hole you dug can be filled in with your bucket full of Shisnit when it’s full.
    This has the makings of Night Soil & can fertilize the area you do it in.

    On the tankless water heater.
    Besides the things already mentioned, I found out that you must have a water softener hooked up to it to prevent the heating coils from getting scale on them.

    Policing your Community.
    If you start this before a SHTF situation then when the S does HTF you will already have a system in place.
    When I walk my dogs around the neighborhood this is just what I am doing. I keep an eye on things for my neighbors & most of them know I carry a gun since I make it no secret & open carry most of the time. I even had one of my neighbors tell me that she feels safer just knowing I am walking around armed! Made me feel damn good hearing that from her.
    It actually did pay off just taking my dogs out when I caught some guys in the act of checking cars for unlocked doors. I talked to some neighbors to let them know what happened & one of them called the police to report that his car had been ransacked but nothing was taken. He told me that he wouldn’t have done anything if he hadn’t been informed that I gave the police the license number of the car I saw that morning.
    So people, talk to your neighbors. Let them know if you see anything suspicious going on!!

  14. @Thenorthernsurvivalist

    From our perspective, a BOB is something EVERYONE should have. However if you step back and look at it from a person who frequently see’s children being kidnapped by their own relatives and parents fleeing from the law, then this could look like someone who’s about to run away from something. So this social worker wonders, why are they so worried about leaving quick and what might they be fleeing from. The social worker saw it as a red flag and I think if they were met with education instead of what I imagine was hostility, it wouldn’t have been an issue.

    I’m not even going to touch the issue of vaccination because I have very strong views that might be contrary to many here.

  15. inverter on car – very good option. I have a hose that i can hook up to my exhaust pipe (dryer vent line and a rubber reducer fitting) and run it out my garage window. This solution works well for generators. Further, if you replace your normal car battery with a deep cycle battery (or two) you can easily run most inverters with no problem at all, then just idle the vehicle to keep things charged. Not a bad option if you need to keep something running for a little while until you get your primary generator up and running, or to really juice up a freezer for 30 or 45 mins at a time so you can shut it down for another few hours.

  16. I agree with Donna on the life insurance for kids. You’d be surprised how many people, even kids, are uninsureable. An inexpensive child policy, which is often obtained without a medical if the child is young enough, can save the day when the kids is old enough to start a family and realizes he/she needs to help spare their family from extreme financial burden in the event of their death.

  17. Hi Jack. I would like to suggest composting as a solution to human waste disposal – as an alternative to the solution recommended in this episode (plastic bags and chemicals). When I say ‘composting human waste’ I don’t mean combining human waste with your regular garden/kitchen compost system – I mean a system dedicated to human waste. Composting toilets can be quite sophisticated if desired, but from a prepping point of view and for a person who is not very interested in many hours of research or practice, the minimum preps are: a barrel of sawdust/ woodchips or similar carbonaceous material, a bucket and a place to leave the material undisturbed such as a large bin with simple aeration or a corner of the backyard(those without backyards will have to be more creative and thoughtful – but in a SHTF scenario when the toilets aren’t working I bet that rubbish collection isn’t either). For those who have experienced frustrations or failures in composting – composting human waste is absolutely not to be intimidated by. It does not need to include any kind of turning as you might be used to with garden compost. Using a sawdust/woodchip based compost toilet also need not be smelly, fly attracting or in any way offensive. The only smell I have ever noticed with many different styles of compost toilets has been amonia, which can be reduced/eliminated if the system does not also have to dispose of urine. Compost toilet designs and info are all over the internet. Many books have been published which can answer all of your questions about design, handling and disease. A classic text which you might find at your library, online or at a bookstore is The Humanure Handbook. IMHO composting human waste is a lot less gross than treating it on masse, flushing it into the ocean, or hoiking it off property in a plastic bag full of chemicals.
    Cheers,
    Anji and Evan

  18. I have life insurance on my kids but for different reasons than Americans.

    Here in Canada it is actually against the law to purchase or provide private health insurance. You have no choice but to use the government run health care system. However, the government doesn’t fund all treatments and the wait lists for treatments can be very long.

    The Supreme Court actually ruled that the wait lists were a violation or our rights an unconstitutional. People have actually died waiting for care. Politicians have been to afraid to do anything though because as soon as they start talking about reforming health care the socialists, unions and media go nuts.

    With this in mind, if my girls are ever sick and need treatment I’ll mortgage my house and sell everything I own to get them treatment ASAP in the USA (thank God for the USA and please don’t ever adopt “Canadian style health care”).

    If they turn out ok I’ll gladly accept the debt and pay if off, however if they don’t make it at least I’ll have the insurance to pay off the debt.

    For this reason I also have critical illness insurance for them.

  19. I was looking for more info on the NASA finding “NASA Says DOUBLE the CO2 and we only get 1.64 degrees of global warming”. Because that sounded like it would make some big news.

    This was the best I found:
    http://youtu.be/l3vIWD4tAHc

    Sounds to me like the Register may have stretched things a bit in their reporting.
    Is there some other reporting on the findings?

  20. Modern Survival

    @Jake to me it is more about the term “double”, the video is well done I admit but the issue here is the following…

    1. The presenter points out that if you take the effect of more plants into account with studies that show greater warming the effect is still a big concern. Fine but he provides no evidence that these other studies are accurate.

    2. All of these alarming numbers revolve around DOUBLING the CO2. When I was in school in the 80s there was about .033 percent of CO2 in the atmosphere. Today the number is .039, so exactly how long would we have to go on totally unabated to double this number? I mean we are talking about 30 years to get an increase of .006%.

    3. The entire point of climate change has been to tax us on carbon, as I have stated this doesn’t do anything to actually cut carbon or pollution.

    4. These studies seem to ignore the scientific FACT that CO2 has a saturation limit. It only effectively reflects certain wavelength of UV light, and it is already at a concentration that reflects about 100% of those wavelengths. This is fact, it can not be disputed.

    People please listen to me, we must cut the use of fossil fuels, I totally agree with that, they do cause large amounts of pollution. Such as sulfur oxide, mercury, dioxins not to mention the damage their extraction does to the land.

    So please use your brains with all of the clearly dangerous pollution from the extraction of gas, oil and coal why do you think all the focus is on the most benign (even if we believe the bullshit) pollutant.

    Seriously even with new controls this stuff still causes acid rain, coal mining literally rusts ground water with sulfur oxide, coal companies strip mine and remove mountain tops, gas drillers do hydraulic fracturing and pollute ground water. Again it just keeps going, there are so many real reasons that we should be doing alternative and clean energy technology. There are so many forms of pollution that no one could ever effectively deny and what does the entire world focus on, the same gas you EXHALE with each breath.

    Why? The forces behind this have no intention of reducing fossil fuel consumption, just creating a new fiat currency and derivatives from it by making CO2 which today is a worthless gas into a global commodity. This will create profit for industry, taxes for government and oppression of people. What it won’t do one bit of is cutting real pollution.

  21. I can see how you can think this about the politics and maybe the media…
    > The entire point of climate change has been to tax us on carbon

    but that has nothing to do with the science.

    And I am sure you know that what we 7 billion people exhale
    is noting compared to the co2 produced by burning fossil fuels.

  22. Modern Survival

    @Jake I gave you a scientific reason that the entire thing is bullshit, stop drinking the koolaid. As for science this so called science is backed by government and all objecting opinion is persecuted. That is the anti thesis of science.

    Did you just ignore this FACT

    “These studies seem to ignore the scientific FACT that CO2 has a saturation limit. It only effectively reflects certain wavelength of UV light, and it is already at a concentration that reflects about 100% of those wavelengths. This is fact, it can not be disputed.”

  23. Jake
    Although I disagree with Jack’s stance on global warming…he’s 100% right on one thing: IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

    Whether it’s taxation or grant money to scientists…it’s all about the money.

    For those who might say that science is objective need to spend some time in the trenches because it’s anything but. Oft times scientists THINK they know what the outcome will be and thus their data SHOWS that THEY were CORRECT. Scientists have huge ego’s, end of story.

    I should note…I am one!

  24. OK, I have to say this even though I don’t have all the info & can’t remember the show I saw it on.
    I watched a show where they were taking Ice-core samples. They found that during an Ice Age the carbon levels were not that high. They also found a time when the carbon levels were 800(eight hundred) times higher. It was hundreds of years before there was any significant change in the temperature of the earth.

    For goodness sakes people it’s a Planet! The temperatures go Up & Down with the cycles of the Sun, Asteroid Impacts, Volcano Eruptions….
    Do you really think that mankind’s pollution is anything compared to 1 Volcanic eruption?
    The ejection from 1 Volcano has changed the temperature of the earth several degrees.
    Once again I say “It Is A Planet!” The temperature WILL change & mankind can do NOTHING about it!!!

  25. I asked a question because I don’t “drink the koolaid” but rather like to check my facts, and explore disconfirming evidence — So if you could point me to some information about the “FACT that CO2 has a saturation limit” and how this pertains to warming scenarios, that would be
    great.

    I suspect this isn’t really the place for a debate on climate change.

  26. Modern Survival

    @Jake,

    Here you go on CO2 sat limits and a lot more http://brneurosci.org/co2.html

    Also consider reading the Global Warming Skeptics Handbook

    http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming/

    Facts are funny things and tough to bury forever.

  27. Thanks.

    I read about the CO2 limit and a different take at
    http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/12/natural-variability-and-climate-sensitivity/

    The Global Warming Skeptics Handbook seems to have been debunked at
    http://www.desmogblog.com/skeptics-handbook-carbon-dioxide-climate-change
    and seems more like it is a playbook for creating FUD rather than addressing the
    science (e.g., lacking references).

    Though since we don’t agree on the state of the science,
    at least we can work together on the commonality of disaster.
    And for that, I really appreciate all you do at TSP.

    Cheers,
    Jake

  28. Modern Survival

    @Jake,

    I find nothing that has debunked the handbook, I find people claiming that it is simply not true but zero evidence presented in the article you reference and others. Just because someone that believes in the boogey many says that a person who wrote a book disproving it is wrong is not a debunking.