Jack – have you used bentonite as a soil amendment? I’ve only used it to stop pond leaks and seal foundations. It gets to be a consistency that while it may hold water, won’t be water that the plants can access. If its been done and works, I am open to the possibility but seems like it would just get to be a mess.

For desert sites: great points Jack, also – find the most hardy evergreen N-fixing perennials that grow in that area. Plant them dense on contour and whack them as they grow, pumping your soil with org matter and Nitrogen.

Jack – With all respects, I would like to see how you concluded your basis that the majority of founding fathers were deist. Is there a specific resource that you could list?

It is commonly held that the majority of the founding fathers were in fact Christian and claimed to be of a specific denomination:

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

Wikipedia’s “Founding Fathers” article has a fairly concise piece on their religion (pasted below). And while yeah, there were certainly some deists and anti-religionists among them (especially among the bigger names), there were also some hard core Christian believers, too. It’s important to remember that atheism was a pretty foreign idea to the Fathers, though. Since these rights were given to Man by God, without God, the whole argument breaks down. Any “rights” would have to derive from the State, who could take them away at will.

The point in the episode about _tolerance_ is right on the money. The original idea of tolerance as they understood it has been warped in the past 75 years.

—snip

Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson[12][13] (who created the “Jefferson Bible”), and Benjamin Franklin[14]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.

Jack what about using heavy battle rifles that can service a combat/ hunting role? FN FAL, HK-G3, M14 or other MBR guns that fire the 7.62x51mm Nato rounds. If people want something similar to a m16 platform maybe a HK-417.

I do agree with you Jack. The world is over populated/ over populating. We have only so many resources hopefully we will not crash. I’m surprised that some don’t understand this there are many natural examples of something getting too big for it’s environment and being unsustainable some animals even live in cycles of crashing and rebuilding. We already have people around the world without good food and water, more people isn’t gonna help that problem.

However those that are prepared and skilled will have a greater likelihood of surviving any such crash if it were to happen and being able to help others.

Christian or any other values have nothing to do with it because really it’s social values they evolve over time. Christians or any other religion have no static moral consistency to point to. It just depends on what social values were around at the time which is evident in the bible it’s self it has plenty of horrible things especially the old testament.

a few examples: (Values placed in theology are a reflection on that time)

Hosea 13:16 NLT (Killing of children and pregnant women)
Leviticus 20:9 NLT (Ridiculous)
Ephesians 6:5 NLT (Slavery)
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 NAB (Sexism)
1 Timothy 2:11-15 NLT (Sexism)
Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB (Rape/ death to rape victim)

Social values evolve over time. religion it’s self doesn’t bring values, people do. religious values are made by people and that influence is clear.

I might get in trouble for saying this but please here me out.In the time of our founding fathers there was much more of a fear factor in church if you didnt go you were looked at as strange or anti god so i do agree that there was a lot of people that went to a church of different belief to save themself from a lot of grief.

I know I’m way late on this, since I got behind and am catching up on a couple of shows I missed, but, we have to look at what is being claimed. Deists believe that God basically created the earth, man, etc, and then, left it and us to fend for ourselves. Christians believe God still works with, through, and in us, on a daily basis. To say the majority of the founders were Deists is simply not believable, if you examine them closely enough. Once again, the phrase is “check it out”. There would certainly be no reason for these men to have prayed on a daily basis as they did, every time they met. There was prayer, scripture reading, and many of them were educated as pastors, in colleges of the day, which were established to do that very thing. There’s not enough room here to fully address all the resources available.

President George Washington stated, “No people can be found to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the affairs of men, more than the people of the United States.”

“I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live,the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? … I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.” — Benjamin Franklin, Constitutional Convention of 1787.

“God who gave us life, gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a connection in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” — Thomas Jefferson.

Remember, Franklin and Jefferson are claimed to be Deists. Does it sound even remotely possible that they would make these kinds of statements if they were Deists?

Not likely. Not at all.

Sorry Jack, but you did say “MOST of our founding fathers were not Christian”, not many. (about 1:10) While they attended a number of different churches, they did consider themselves Christian.

How can you be a deist “at some level”?

The founding fathers wanted to make sure that no one “religion”, ie, Calvinism, Presbyterianism, Catholicism, would be established. That’s what the fear was; remembering that the reason we all ended up here almost 200 years before was to avoid being mandated into the church of England.

Those are man made religions. Christianity, or, TRUE Christianity, is a relationship with our Creator.

Let’s get back to gardening 🙂