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Episode-2699- The Danger of Censoring Doctors — 31 Comments

  1. Holy shit.

    You know I have been exposed to suggestions that mainstream medicine has basically given up and has a plan to let people die. Outside of psychiatry, I have never seen this so obviously evident as it is right now. The profession is destroying its credibility with the public by neglecting data from its own members who haven’t given up yet.

    “Nobody is having fun any more!” These doctors are genuine people! Not like Fauci.

    Malpractice suits? Laws are going up fast to protect doctors from suits for this pandemic specifically. It’s so blatantly criminal!

    The dark connection between Facebook/Google and WHO has been very difficult for me to trace. Obviously Twitter, etc., is being leaned on, too. Who is doing the leaning? Where is this coming from? Can we do something about it or is disconnecting with it our only viable option?

    The answers that trickle through to me sound like “deep state,” even “ET,” with ties to governments via “corporate.” In other words, its not really “politics” per se. Politics is the target they are trying to keep all our attention on, and it’s not the right target! It’s the only target covered by the mainstream, and it’s not that important right now. It’s so obvious to me that the basic data are there, and we are just being told not to look at it.

    • This group, whoever they are, are rapidly being wiped off the face of this planet.

      This website: https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/ comes up “expired.”

      There is a small possibility that this is a “counterintelligence” operation meant to test who would fall for the bait. If the group ends up being a fabrication, then everyone who carried their message can be invalidated as a questionable source of information. While these people looked sincere, I would not put it past the deep state to hire a bunch of actors to put on this little show, complete with BLM agitator, for our amusement and later consternation…

      • I’ve looked a bit further. The group is still alive on Twitter. The “star” of the press conference, a woman doctor from West Africa, is also a Christian. That’s a bit unusual for me, and the article cited by Charles below tears her to shreds for her beliefs. But that’s no reason to tear HCQ to shreds, and that’s the real intent of the article, so why get all caught up in the mud slinging? Their message was fairly strong. The response was painfully predictable. I just hope the message touched enough people to make a difference.

    • The Daily Beast is a propaganda organ. I hope this website can stay above all that. I’m sure opponents will try to tear this group apart, as they just organized and it makes them look like a “popup.” But the MATH+ group is still out there, and they are for absolutely sure the real thing. I’m guessing their treatment protocol is being ignored because it includes Vitamin C… also saving lives. That’s what both treatments have in common and probably what the pro-pandemic crowd hate the most…

  2. I must have been listening to you for too long.  I reacted almost the exact same way that you did to the remarks made by these doctors.  It was all that I could focus on ALL day long!

    I hate making phone calls, but must do this!  Thanks, Jack!

  3. Thank you for your input Larry.  Yes, the DB does push the wrong narrative, but that doesn’t mean the article I posted is wrong.  I hope it is though.  Maybe somebody here knows.

    • I would just presume it is wrong.  If someone smeared my name (it’s happened) I would hope people would presume the best.  Also, character assassination is one of the primary weapons of the establishment, so….

  4. I can’t think of a greater scandal in American history than this.  Letting tens of thousands die so Big Pharma can make billions off a vaccine.  This is an immense crime.

    • Global history – don’t forget there is more COVID-19 outside the USA than in the USA and that suppression of discussion of alternative treatments and the use of “trials” that use toxic (or other non-therapeutic) doses and regimens is also taking place in other countries. As Jack says: even if you are doubtful that hydroxychloroquine is the cure for COVID-19, you have to support the right of the doctors in the video to demand that their evidence be examined and the trials be conducted to test the efficacy of their regimen.

      And as Jack also says: ring your senators and your congress rep.

  5. I heard about these doctors already , the next morning. They’re already attacking her character . Demon doctor, just started as a doctor, only allowed to practice in Texas, and then moved on to school fear mongering.

  6. Great stuff. And I appreciated in the followup video that they covered masks/viruses.

    The sad/horrific thing is that if Trump had never said anything about Hydroxychloroquine, it would probably already be in use. The ‘Blue Church’ would rather have people die than for Trump to be right.

    No, this DOES NOT make me pro-Trump, I’m just pro-logic/reality.

    • “No, this DOES NOT make me pro-Trump, I’m just pro-logic/reality.”

      Two facts here that have caused me to lose faith in my fellow Americans…

      1.  That such a declaration is needed

      2.  That it will never be believed

  7. The Daily Beast article just shows how racist and elitist the woke left actually is. Her beliefs were presented with zero cultural context, just held out there for “enlightened” white westerners to say “look how crazy this African doctor is!” In reality, most humans throughout history and even up until modern times did not feel required to find a strictly material causation for every medical phenomenon. Historically speaking, it’s not uncommon  to believe in benign and malicious spirits interacting with humans. The reality is that some of these beliefs may be perfectly rational from within the Doctor’s own west African cultural context (I don’t know enough about that culture to judge if that is true), and don’t necessarily negate belief in modern medicine

    But I do know this: the article’s implied claim that anyone who doesn’t hold to strict materialism is somehow crazy just shows the author’s belief in his own cultural supremacy.

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  8. Although I don’t like the censorship, I think those companies have a right to remove any content from their site they want. But I take the voluntaryist position pretty far. I think a restaurant should be allowed to place a sign on their front door that states “No bald, white men allowed”, and prevent me from entering their private property. I think the owner of a web server reserves the right to create any contract for the use of their server they want, and to wipe anything from the server that violates that contract. By using their server, I’m now subject to their rules, the same way I’m subjects to the rules of the lease space I choose to put my restaurant in. Using a platform like Twitter or Facebook is similar. If I want to use their platform, I have to play by their rules. And their rules are, if we don’t like your content, we can and will remove it, and/or ban you. If I don’t like their rules, I’m welcome to create my own platform or use a different platform of my choosing.   

  9. The download link ends at 1:13:36 with your words – “Do you want to live in a world where the solution to what we disagree with is…”

  10. The Play in Popup and the one that came to my BeyondPod app also end at the same point.  Great info in the show today.  Thanks for your take on what they had to say.

  11. I have a Ph.D. And was trained as a Scientist.  I nearly have a master’s in Applied Statistics, and am almost completely immune to BS with numbers.  I have also worked for a Health department in a major Metro area during Pan-avian flu and other nasties and been on CDC conference calls.  I have some issues with some of the things I heard on that podcast, but overall, it was a reason why we should all be concerned.

    – There is a time for a double Blind study, and a time to pay attention to the accumulation of “less than perfect” studies

    – There is revealing the real results of a study in context, and then there are clear efforts to not inform.

    – There is the way that “science” really happens and what people want you to believe about it.

     

    This podcasts revealed a lot that most don’t know, but should. The BS around Covid is so deep you need Scuba gear. There will never be a post-Mortimer on what was/should have been done. Not because we can’t handle the truth, but what we would do if we knew the truth.

  12. This virus topic is moving at the speed of light.

    Veracity of Science is what I have to lean into on this subject, so I look to this from Jack: “This man has been cited in the research of others 39,890 times, he is one of the most influential people in the medical research field of infectious disease on the planet. If you won’t seriously consider what he is saying here please logically explain to me why you won’t.”

    I refer back to Jack’s Parler post of a few days ago about Dr. Harvey Risch with citation to his work found in the NEWSWEEK article below (you have to search it out. It’s 29 pages). Dr. Risch’s further citations back his claims. If it comes down to defending my life, who’s advice am I going to trust? Someone like Dr. Risch.

    This work is referenced in this NEWSWEEK article (https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535) and was noted in the Fox Article cited by Jack here: (https://parler.com/post-view?q=890035009e5143f1a0038b0223171460)

    The Frontline Doctors just may have it right.

    I’m thinking Dri Risch does.

    What are you willing to bet your life on?

  13. Jack’s conclusion at the end of the podcast is that big pharma may be suppressing discussion of hydroxychloroquine, and where they are not successful in suppressing discussion they are sowing disinformation of many kinds to confuse the issue – all in order to earn $trillions.
     
    This is plausible when I look dispassionately at what’s happening. But my normalcy bias tells me “Surely not! They wouldn’t be so callous and unscrupulous! – not American companies, not American leaders, not American doctors, not American media!”

    • I had a friend who was stabbed multiple times for about 200 bucks. He bled out from wounds to his kidneys and liver. Over 200 dollars. When you start talking billions and up, I doubt nothing that anyone would do for it.

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  14. I, also, took up this banner and carried it forward in my own blog and podcast on the topic of the Frontline Doctors. I, also, have been attacked by a few of my own subscribers who, I am glad to say, I have been able to remove or have removed themselves. I have the same attitude toward putting first what is plausible, tractable, and practical. I have a background in both research and therapy. You can read (or listen) to my take on this, which has some additional anecdotal support from doctors, here: https://www.mindstrengthbalance.com/2020/07/28/covid-19-frontline-doctors/

  15.  
    Sometimes the doctor-patient relationship is sacred in the right political context, and sometimes it is easily ignored. Even though I am undecided on the efficacy of HCQ there should be dialog, and good studies performed, but I find the understanding of how to do good research, and some of the other claims in this debate strange.
     

     
    The original basic research study from 2005(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/), is missing the addition of zinc, does this make it invalid? 
     

     
    The recently mentioned RECOVERY trial (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.15.20151852v1.full.pdf).  I thought the dose sounded high also, but have no relevant experience with HCQ for this so looked up the dosing https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2017/009768s037s045s047lbl.pdf), and these doses do seem aggressive, but not nearly as crazy when you look at the weight based doses recommended for treating an active malaria infection.  Also, the reasoning for the dosing and findings of toxicity HCQ minimal to non-existent toxicity were discussed on page 13(Recovery trial PDF).  It’s not completely blinded, so no as good of a study as it could be.  There were 2 other studies mentioned, though I found this one first, and will try to find other later, but if anyone has the links please post.
     

     
    https://theprint.in/health/hcq-breakthrough-icmr-finds-its-effective-in-preventing-coronavirus-expands-its-use/427583/  This is not a study, but a press release from the country that produces the most HCQ in the world (https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-biggest-producer-of-game-changer-hydroxychloroquine-drug-has-enough-capacity/article31281809.ece, https://theprint.in/health/how-trumps-hydroxychloroquine-demand-changed-the-game-for-indian-pharma-companies/399057/).  Even if we see the data, and it is consistent with the claim it is retrospective, so is not evidence of causation.  If these researchers really wanted to prove it to the world they could have done a better study.
     

     
    https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study is retrospective, and found results that are inconsistent with other findings, like a higher rate of deaths in whites, and a lower rate of death in the obese when you read the actual study.  This study “proves” that obesity provides protection from COVID (https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext) (see table 2).  This is why observation studies are lower quality, the the doctor at 53 minutes 5 seconds of today’s downloaded episode admits this, but seems to indicate he believes the weaker data anyway. I can’t remember if I have recommended this video Science for Smart People (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1RXvBveht0) it is entertaining.
     

  16. [Note: this is from a different Charlie than earlier. It’s a fairly common name. Just adding this to avoid some confusion.]

    I’m not fully up to speed with the latest claims and research, due to a personal policy of allowing the mass media to poison my spirit as little as necessary.  But I like to surf pubmed for fun, picking drug studies apart to figure out where they went wrong (and often they do), so hey.  I’ll have to go look sometime.

    What worries me about this particular event is that it highlights just how strong guilt by association is nowadays.  Okay, so one of them might have beliefs (but check sources for that too!) that are nutty by American standards but very normal for some parts of Africa.  And some political folks arranged the event.  Does that mean every medical professional who took the stage that day is similarly nutty and/or political?  Does association with those specific people discredit their own medical work history?  I tend to think not, because let’s face it, most of us have worked with otherwise sane and competent colleagues who have had some breathtakingly freaky beliefs.  Some of us have unorthodox opinions in various subjects, too, but can keep a clear separation between our work and what we’ll quietly admit to over drinks.  Those who aren’t guilty of that in some way just haven’t been caught yet.

    But a smart activist would carefully investigate every person who might want to speak on behalf of the cause.  Just in case.  Don’t give ammunition to your enemy.  Especially if the enemy runs the propaganda machine.

    Result: chilling effect on freedoms of speech and association.

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