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Episode-2618- Doc Bones on the CoVid-19 Pandemic — 12 Comments

  1. Jack, it is pleasant to hear that you personally are a good natured person wanting to see positive motives in the actions that government leaders have taken to control the spread of  Covid 19.  Unfortunately, the long reach of history teaches that governments are most often used to promote the power, profit, privilege, position and prestige of those in control.  In the matter of this disease, the unprecedented global governmental response to the alleged “Pandemic” is an obvious power grab.  The days of elected representatives being in control of the government are long gone.  Thus, even in the event that our political leaders well meaning, their motives are of little importance.   U.S. politicians, like those of most the world are following a global agenda.   

    Seems to me that you never adequately dealt with the obvious intentional demolition of the WTC buildings 1, 2 & 7 on 9/11.   Thus you remain under the false impression that we the people are in control of our nation’s elected representatives, and that our national representatives are in control of national policy.  With respect to you and the good Doc Bones, those who control government have initiated a power grab that is fully intended to destroy both our economy and our freedoms.   It is a shame that not only do neither of you recognize it, Doc sadly advocates complete shut down of our national borders.    There was no Anarchic comment from you? 

    How does forcibly restricting the travel of your neighbor fit in with your Anarchic principles?   

    • If you think I trust government I don’t even know what to tell you.

      Let me turn this around if we are not going to do what every doctor, scientist, epidemiologist, etc looking at it says we should do, what should we do instead?

      Nothing? Just let it play out? Pretend it does not exist? Pretend that Italian health care system is not over whelmed? Pretend that half of Europe is not about to be in the same boat at Italy? Pretend we are not doing the only actual thing we can to slow this down and deal with it?

      The reality is such controls are 100% at odds with my anarchist beliefs. I don’t like it and I worry deeply about the longer term concequences and just covered that in this episode. http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/learning-from-covid-2019

      I won’t let this discussion drag in 911, we can do that elsewhere if you really feel the need, but what exactly do you think we should do now?

      Lastly we don’t live in a stateless society or even a minarchy. I imagine we would have tons of options if we did, areas where you can risk yourself if you want, areas with some restrictions and areas with heavy protections. Not to mention many other solutions to this issue at our disposal. Likely more treatment options too.

      But I am also a pragmatist, we don’t have that do we? We have the system we have and we have a society that has never had to take care of itself. I think many of them are about to learn how.

      My gut here is you may be one of those people that thinks the government made this virus or something like that. If so all my effort typing here is wasted, but I did it anyway. Why?

      May be you have a good answer to what would you say we should do? So go ahead, answer it but make sure to defend the consequences like respirator rationing, people who don’t need to die, dying etc.

      Don’t tell me about things we could be doing IF XYZ had been done already, because XYZ was not and it is not the current reality.

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  2. Jack you already know what we should do. You know it instinctively and you have been doing it instinctively.

    Government should do exactly what you’ve done here in this episode and with your 15 Things You Can Do post accompanying the episode -educate, advise, admonish, and lead. There is nothing about this alleged pandemic that requires or will benefit from what the good Doctor Bones advocated -forced Full Closure of our borders, or from what is occurring in my State (WA) Mandatory closure of multiple businesses and enforced limits on social gatherings https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/coronavirus-gov-inslee-issues-statement-statewide-shutdown-restaurants-bars-expands-ban-large-gatherings/XIDPHMLVOJAAREQ5YCL75367PU/, or from what is occurring in the San Francisco Bay area – mandatory (enforceable) 3 week shelter in place orders – home imprisonment unless the government blesses your reason for leaving. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Bay-Area-to-shelter-in-place-What-you-need-15135087.php

    Instead of voluntary cooperation, these orders of economic and social deprivation will literally kill and injure more people than the illness itself ever would have.

    These compelled “health” regulations and the coming mandatory vaccines are founded on the absurd notion that we the people are too stupid to care for ourselves. You’ve never believed that. Providing, good information and encouragement toward effective action are all the public needs to modify our behavior enough to naturally, easily and cooperatively mitigate the “pandemic”. For a graphic of how effective the mitigating actions of a significant percentage of the population can be, see minutes 12 to 15 of this video by Chris Martenson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efaDuE-XEi4 Despite the fact that Martenson is another guy who foolishly believes force [Govt] is the solution, Chris does offer helpful analysis on the benefits of mitigating actions by a segment of the population as well as on minimizing the level of inoculum.

    Whether a government created the “virus” is not my concern. Instead, I’m focused on whether the Government might use the virus. The answer to that question is one you and I are likely to fully agree upon. My thinking as to the source of the virus is more in line with Jon Rappoport’s idea that there are many causes of these media hyped illnesses, and very few of the illnesses can be positively traced to a specific virus. https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/15/how-many-people-have-coronavirus/

    You ask if we are to, “Pretend that Italian health care system is not over whelmed?”. I don’t know whether the Italians are overwhelmed or not. But I will agree that the media wants us to believe serious measures are called for. A better test of the seriousness of an allegedly “pandemic” illness is whether the morgues are overwhelmed. Have you found any reliable reports of bodies being lined up with no place to go -in any country?

    • See the problem I have with this take right now is as follows

      1. Social distancing does indeed work

      2. Systems are being over whelmed in Europe, that is not debatable.

      3. The current situation does not benefit governments. Governments do not want people locked down, controlled yes, locked down no. They want us spending money and paying taxes.

      I have no doubt long term the government will use this to expand power, but what is going on right now is not of benefit to them.

      Closing international travel makes more sense right now than any other measure.

      Lastly what I think about what the government does here, does not matter. It is my job at this point to tell people how to deal with it.

  3. 1.  Yes social distancing works.  My point is that no force or law is required to create sufficient social distancing.  If, authorities recommend it, the majority of people will practice it -whether it is needed or not

    2.  Yes a few systems are being overwhelmed in Europe.   The question is how much of the use of beds is directed by government policy and promoted by media hype.  If you don’t think government policy and/or media hype can easily cause people to unreasonably overwhelm health care -See any 10 seconds of this video.  https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1239731980692066304?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1239876555725209600&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theburningplatform.com%2F2020%2F03%2F17%2Fyour-government-in-action%2F Media has hyped the population into irrational runs on the corner store, it can easily hype the population (as well as our thoroughly indoctrinated health care professionals) into unnecessary runs on any nation’s illness care system. 

    It is certainly debatable whether the majority of increased demand for sickness care is the result of serious illness or of the policies followed and of mass media hype.  One commenter put it this way; 

    “The coronavirus panic is just that, an irrational panic, based on an unproven RNA test, that has never been connected to a virus.  And which won’t be connected to a virus unless the virus is purified.  Even when tests are administered that can detect a novel virus, the presence of a novel virus is not by itself proof that it is the cause of the severe symptoms that some people, but not all, who test positive experience.  Finally, when it can be shown that the tests administered detect a virus, known to cause illness, we do not know what the rate of false positives is.   Even a 1% false positive rate could produce 100,000 false positive results just in a city the size of Wuhan and could mean that a much large fraction of the positive test results are false positives.”

    3. Agreed that the current situation does not benefit a rational view of what those who control government should want.   My point is that mass murdering psycopaths are running the global pandemic agenda and they don’t think or reason the way you or I think they should.  Our elected officials are not in control of the direction or the policies of this nation (as was so clearly evidenced by that event in 2001 you don’t want to discuss).  Many or most elected officials may well want us spending money and paying taxes.  To bad they are not in control.

    Lastly,  you won’t be near as effective in helping people deal with the catastrophe that is coming (mostly economic) if we don’t all face the deeper problem -that we the people and our elected officials have lost control of our government.  Our freedoms, our health and our prosperity, will only worsen until the psychopaths promoting the agenda of control and death are forcibly removed.

    Their plan to forcibly close businesses and borders has never been more effective than promoting voluntary cooperation and leading by example.   Forcing your neighbor to stay put, or preventing him/her from moving, makes great sense to authoritarians and to those reacting out of fear -even when under their fear they may be well educated or well meaning.   Forcibly, controlling your neighbor has no place among those who believe in non-agression. 

    The repo markets started to crash long before the virus.  Virus hype and the unwarranted closure of commerce is merely the cover the controlling psychopaths have chosen for the impending implosion.  Those setting the agenda intend to blame a normal pulmonary illness for the coming economic crash on mainstreet.

    • I agree with a lot but the conclusions are largely illogical. Again government nor the psychos that run government benefit from collapse.

      The truth is the numbers are both low and high but the stress on critical care is real. And again people like you struggle with the fact that I don’t talk about how things should be in times like this, I talk about how they are. No matter what I say right now it won’t change the reality on the ground.

      That said one thing you said that is accurate is “social distancing works”, and hence the fastest route though this, is what? Social distancing. Like I keep saying buy from these restaurants, order to go. It is a huge help right now. Don’t horde shit you don’t need, don’t go posting pics of empty shelves and long lines. Be strategic and keep your grey man in opps mode. Get your shit at off hours and stay the fuck out of the way of the problem as best you can.

      I for one do NOT have 100% confidence in the tests, but it is what we have. At minimum one who tests positive is one less potential vector during this time. I really think this is going to look insane in a week to 10 days, it will also be the peak of new cases. You are looking at 30-40 days before MOST not all the nation is back to somewhat normal business. Most companies will be able to survive that.

  4. I currently live in France and my father works in the intensive care unit of one hospital here and my sister is a nurse in another. I can assure you that, contrary to what is said in this podcast by Dr Bones, people over 50 are definitely getting ventilators when they need them. Currently, everyone is getting the treatment they need.

    Other facts you got wrong here :
    – The US does not have a better health care system than most European countries. In fact, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the US only has 2.4 intensive care beds per 1000 residents, whereas France has 3.1 and Germany 6 per 1000 residents. (Japan and South Korea are even better, with 7.8 and 7.1 respectively.)
    – France (as well as lots of other countries) also has the means to spring a military popup hospital. In fact, they are currently doing this as we speak in one of the regions in France were there are the most sick people.

    I must say, I’m very disappointed with the poor level of accuracy of this episode.

    Stay safe and good luck.

    • Thank you for that information, we can only work with the data we have. He also did say he was “guessing” about that and I am sure it has a lot to do with what is coming out of Italy from the Italian Government as well.

  5. “It is a dangerous notion that we need a government to protect us from ourselves.”
    Ron Paul

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  6. Jack Spirko,  thank you for work, and for the time you took to challenge my perceptions of what responses are appropriate to the current pandemic.  You are appreciated.

    I see nothing illogical about people with evil intent causing tremendous destruction in order to bring about policies (advocated by Dr. Bones) which will grant those in charge a massive increase in their ability to control everyone in the world.  Further, I recognize that it is not even possible to effectively focus on how things should be, unless we start with a basic understanding of how things actually are.

    I appreciate your work, recommend people to your site, encourage you to stay strong on the non-aggression principle, and leave you with this thought from another citizen commentator -Eric Peters.

    “The whole Corona Thing thing smells wrong. It is too convenient. It is too fast. It serves too many nefarious purposes. It may achieve what (nine-eleven) didn’t – and what the “climate crisis” seems unable to achieve, despite Herculean efforts toward that end: The corralling of the populace with its fear-addled, lowing consent. The destruction of the economic life of America – so as to impose the elite’s political agenda on Americans.
    What H.L. Mencken said 100 years ago wasn’t so much analysis as prediction. “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

    https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2020/03/17/what-911-didnt-and-the-climate-crisis-couldnt/

    Thanks again, keep up the great work.  Blessings to you and all your posterity.

  7. Saw this post by Allan Stevo.  It is likely resonate well with you, and with many among your audience.
    Should Government Really Have Any Power in a Crisis?
    By Allan Stevo
    March 18, 2020

    … (W)hen outcomes matter most, we often seem to turn to government and get the predictably awful outcome that comes when you turn to an inefficient bureaucracy that rules by force and threat of force to do the work best suited for individuals: making decisions for themselves.
    … (Government) is a tool … that is possibly useful for some activities… Government is well-equipped to be a make-work program for sociopaths and to provide cover for theft, plunder, and murder. It is incredibly useful for this.
    It is not the best equipped tool to handle an array of other concerns …, such as managing disease outbreaks, or providing useful and unbiased information about said outbreak, or ensuring high quality and affordable care for those afflicted. These matters are best left to individuals cooperating voluntarily in a marketplace.
    “Oh, but their health affects others,” … “How can you possibly suggest they have the right to decide for others?”
    “Exactly,” would be my answer.
    No one has the right to decide for others. Decide for yourself. Leave everyone else alone to decide for themselves. The outcome can’t possibly be worse than whatever government will produce.
    If you understand freedom, you don’t see a need for government to coordinate coronavirus responses. If you believe in free markets, you also don’t see a need for government to coordinate coronavirus responses.
    You are merely grasping at straws when you turn to government. … Have some faith in your values. There can also be utility in following your values. If one must speak about the collective and utility – time and again, we’ve seen that the worse the situation, the better freedom is at managing society’s resources.
    The more minor the situation, the less government involvement is able to screw things up royally. The less damage can be done. ….
    That’s exactly the kind of bad choice that is made when we foolishly pretend there is such a thing as a collective “we the people,” and that there is a collective common interest that can be satisfied by a government. Needs and wants are individual. They can be satisfied for individuals. Talk of “the greater good,” merely distracts from this detail with some romanticized lie about an imaginary collective interest that does not exist. Talking in such fanciful ways brings us no closer to understanding reality. We must speak concretely about individuals and their needs and the solutions required for each individual.
    The response to corona should be to laugh at and ignore every political edict on the topic and to go about life as you think appropriate under the circumstances. The people making the edicts are desperate to feel relevant and are surrounded by handlers who insist to them how important they are to successful resolutions of society’s problems. When in reality, they aren’t. The best they can do for anyone is to say a few encouraging words and to leave everyone alone. Their moral support alone is likely to do enough damage, but some people demand government and at least allowing government officials to keep busy by offering kind words of moral support is better than letting them screw up ….
    … If you let government mess up housing, it will. If you let government mess up education, it will. If you let government mess up human health and happiness, it will.
    In March of 2020, with the planet harried by talk of coronavirus, now more than ever we need to trust in the individual to decide for himself and to remember to let the mayor, governor, and president decide for no one but themselves.
    They will, reliably, screw it up if we decide any other way.
    That is the nature of government. … In sharp contrast to government, the nature of individuals is uncertain, undetermined, and has gotten us a few million years into the evolutionary process just fine. Nothing new is taking place in society that is any indication that it is time to reform that view, even with the emergence of this latest microbe that has attracted the attention of many.
    Everything looks very similar to the way it always has. Life has challenges. That is the nature of life. Humanity arranges itself in useful ways voluntarily and has done pretty well handling those challenges.
    Any other way is mired in idealism divorced from reality. With corona being identified as having reached pandemic status, reality suggests now is the right time to tell government to piss off.”
    The Best of Allan Stevo
    https://www.lewrockwell.com/author/allan-stevo/

    • Just know when you drop lots of links the posts require approval, I do approve them when I get to it. Don’t think at any time I am censoring you.