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AOCS Copper Now Ready for Pre Order — 35 Comments

  1. Ordered mine as well. I’ve been waiting for these for awhile, so thanks for all the work you guys have been putting in to get them to us. Have a merry Christmas!

  2. Jack,

    I know you and the suppliers have to make money, but at 1.25 a coin, that is a %400 percent markup over copper spot prices.

    As of posting this: Copper is at $3.9920/lb, comes out to .25 an ounce.

  3. Frank,

    You are, of course, welcome to buy pure copper from a supplier without any markings on it, and with the copper not cut into coins. No artists to pay, no coin manufacturers to pay, no dies to create, no markup to deal with.

    But if you want a TSP copper coin, that’s the price. The dies alone cost us about $500. On top of that, we pay waaaaaay more than copper spot prices for these coins on our end. Not to mention that these coins are used as currency in stores that accept AOCS coins. Try doing that with a length of copper pipe. Ain’t gonna work.

    If you think we’re trying to screw people, you’re wrong. Until we sell more than 2,000 of these coins, we don’t make any kind of profit whatsoever.

  4. @Frank,

    In addition to what Sister Wolf said above let me clue you in to what copper spot price is and is not.

    First the spot price is for junk copper, like wire with the insulation burned off covered in soot or pipe wrecked out of a construction project. You can’t get close to buying new pipe or grounding bars or any form of even industrial copper for spot.

    Further even if you will buy copper in the form of junk you don’t pay spot unless you buy about 10,000 pounds (5 tons) at a shot.

    Second our mark up per coin is actually less then the mark up per spot from most independently produced silver coins. Again per coin, not per ounce. Here is what I mean,

    Right now a silver round is trading from most vendors at about 32-34 dollars a coin.

    Silver spot this moment for just raw silver is 29.40

    That means there is 29.40 in spot silver in a one ounce coin that you pay 32-34 dollars for.

    That means your price per coin over spot is 2.60-4.60 each.

    With our copper rounds your price per coin over the pure spot price of copper is 75 cents in quantity and 1 dollar in small amounts.

    Now it may shock you to learn that it costs as much to produce a copper coin as it does to produce a silver coin, outside of the raw materials.

    It may also surprise you to learn that getting a pure .9999 piece of copper polished to proof quality ready for stamping can’t be done for spot prices. I am not going to reveal our entire cost analysis but just know for my license fee I make between 6-10 cents on a coin.

    Lastly, unlike every other producer of AOCS rounds I have taken steps to promote the concept of honest money with mine at a much higher level. We will have http://www.trtam.com fully live by the time the coins ship.

    I have been working very hard on about a 50 page ebook called, “The Real Truth About Money” for a month now, the research alone has been massive. I will finish it this week and it will be fact checked by Rob at AOCS and an attorney who is a Supreme Court Bar Member. Our goal is that these coins be used evangelically so to speak to teach honest money. Rather then do this 100% for TSP we did it in a way that will be more generic and open through a lot of additional effort and expense.

    Lastly I will tell you this, if you can provide me slugs (blanks we stamp the coins from) for spot, we will buy all we can get, good luck finding a way to do it.

    Spot prices are something that people do not understand in the world of silver. In the world of copper the delta between spot vs. market is even greater. One final thought, these are coins, an affinity product, a barter tool and a way to spread the message about honest currency. They are not a way to invest in 5,000 pounds of copper. For that type of investing look to an ETF fund.

  5. Oh before anyone asks the eBook will be a free download. I do think it will be bad ass for hard copy use so I will see about making it available on Lulu.com for say a buck a copy over cost for those that want hard copies of it to give out.

    That looks like a cost of 8-9 dollars each.

  6. Around 1-1/2 years ago, the Liberty Dollar group was selling 1 oz copper coins for around $1, so not a large difference there.

    Does it say anywhere if we are charged when ordering, or when they are shipped?

  7. @Bob,

    You are charged when you place the order. We are doing this to help offset the huge investment in at least 5000 ounces of copper. We think we are going to up that run rate because so many have already ordered, (close to 1900 as of last night).

    Thing is we as suppliers have to pay for all the costs up front and for a small company it can be hard to absorb. Rob at AOCS made me an awesome deal by charging me for the dies, set up, artist fees, etc but fronted the copper on the run. My hope is that by the time we ship we have sold over half the run and can get even with him out of the gate and self fund further runs.

    One thing to keep in mind is that TSP Gear Shop is not me it is sponsored and partially funded by me but it is in fact Tiffany and Rich Rockwell. It is an independent small business I have helped to establish. I only take a small royalty for items bearing my brand from them. Like any small business cash flow is critical to getting it off the ground.

    That said I personally guarantee that anyone ordering anything will get what they ordered or be refunded in full. I hope that all makes sense.

  8. Does anyone have a good way of finding vendors who accept AOCS currency? I can only find one automotive company within 100 miles of me (Sacramento) listed on the AOCS marketplace.

    http://www.opencurrency.com/directory/marketplace/

    Also, is there any good documentation already put together that I could take to local businesses to promote this? It would be good to get this going locally. I hope the documentation would have something as to legality and tax information.

    Thanks!

  9. @B,

    Rob from AOCS will be on the show Thursday, I will get him to comment on stuff like this so turn in Thursday.

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  11. @Gumpster, if you mean have a front and a back (though double strike is actually an error in coin speak and ours don’t have errors) yes they have a obverse and a reverse. I just only posted the picture of the front here, click though to the order page for a view of both sides of the coin.

  12. What is the actual physical size of this coin (I can figure out combinations from copper density and one ounce weight, just wondered about actual dimensions).
    Thanks

  13. the blog hates my comment for some reason… this is my 3rd try

    … was just wondering about the link sovereignlife on your adverts on the new site… something you are using?

    maybe a question to be answered on a future podcast

  14. @Nick,it is just an ad at this point nothing more. As the site has very little traffic for now I am just running some generic ads on it.

    The product does intrigue me, I just don’t have the time to review it right now.

  15. I know how to make people happy over the cost. Slap the word “Nike” or better yet “Gucci” then charge $20 or $30 for these limited designer rounds. As for the copper rounds worth. There are women out there that will spend $1000 for a purse with the name Gucci on it, however that purse to me is worthless, I have no need or want for it. Copper on the other hand does have value to me, I need it to power my home, cook my food, entertain myself, transport myself, the list goes on. So I need it but still do not know its “worth”, however, looking over the current and past prices I find that these rounds are roughly worth 1/100 of a minted American Eagle Dollar or in other words, one cent.

  16. I knew I forgot to ask something. Just curious. What is the AOCS “Trade Unit” value of copper rounds(any make) in an AOCS economy?

  17. As “Another Frank” indirectly pointed out, “worth” of something is often subjective, and can exist in the mind of the person evaluating it. For myself, these coins are well worth the price due to the conversations they will inspire and the “teaching opportunities” they will present. At $1.00 each (in qty), they are cost effective enough to “pass them on” to friends and family, as an overall way of spreading the truth about money and an intro into modern survivalism. That may be like a $1.00 “insurance policy” to keep them from showing up at my door later on, if TSHTF. For me, that would make them “priceless” – : )

  18. Why is this even a discussion point!?… how much is a hand blown glass vase worth if you melt it down in a hot fire?

    If everything is to be judged by the raw value of the components then most of the items at walmart would be less than 5 cents

  19. I just ordered mine. I have been collecting and saving AOCS Copper for a while now preparing for the upcoming meltdown. If these rounds are as beautiful as the others I have, the pics don’t even begin to do these justice. I can’t wait to get these.

    BTW, Rounds like these and the Gun Dollars (Bud’s Gun Shop), Tea Party (NORFED)…etc are very popular in Florida. Everyone wants them and they’re not easy to get.